A Mormon on a Weather Vane

Posted February 7, 2008 | 05:40 PM (EST)



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This afternoon's top news is Mitt Romney's announcement that he is ending his run for the presidency. Romney's candidacy raised the issue of whether a Mormon could be elected president. The media stories were about evangelicals who didn't like him because they thought Mormonism was an un-Christian sect.

I was born and raised in Michigan. My governor in the late 1960s was George Romney, Mitt's father. He was a moderate Republican, a good governor, and ran for president himself. I never remember his Mormonism being a factor or even an issue of discussion, and his candidacy failed for other reasons.

I also don't believe that Mitt Romney's campaign failed because of his Mormon religion. I have frequently said that no candidate's theology or doctrine should be a factor in voting, but rather the focus should be on their moral compass -- what shapes their political values, leadership, and policies. Romney failed by not demonstrating a consistent moral compass, and many didn't believe he had one.

He often changed his positions, depending on whose votes he was trying to get. He was a liberal Republican who was pro-choice and pro-gay rights when he ran for governor of Massachusetts; and then shifted dramatically to being a very conservative Republican with the opposite views when trying to court the conservative Republican base in his run for the presidency. He became the most virulent attacker of undocumented people when he realized the political advantage of that position in the primaries. He became an outside populist against insider Washington when he sensed after the early primaries that change was in the air, and then he became a competent businessman when recession became a leading issue.

Romney's problem was not that he was a Mormon, but that he was a Mormon sitting on top of a weather vane changing his positions every time the wind blew in a different direction. He showed no moral compass people could trust, and his candidacy was doomed.

Jim Wallis is the author of The Great Awakening, Editor-in-Chief of Sojourners and blogs at www.godspolitics.com.

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- JackPaulden See Profile I'm a Fan of JackPaulden permalink

The biggest problem with the Mormon religion is simply racism. They changed their directive from G-d when they reaized that the nation wouldn't tolerate it. Simply put, they had in the 60's told people who were of African birthright that they had sinned in the pre-life. G-d therefore had marked them with black skin. This then disallowed blacks from holding the priesthood in Mormon religion. Apparently someone pointed out the fallacy, as Christians believe that Jesus died for the sins of all, including those of African birthright.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 02/08/2008
- wrabbitt See Profile I'm a Fan of wrabbitt permalink

I don't find a religious reason for not voting for Mitt. Its more a rich vs. middle class thing, none of his views on the economy mean much to the people who make around 20k to 25k the majority the ones who do the most work for lees and less money every year. If you happen to be lucky enough to have a job that has not left the country for cheaper labor costs and bigger profits. Three things i can't vote for someone too rich, someone too old, and someone who takes lobby money then says it won't change their mind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 02/08/2008
- waynesmyer See Profile I'm a Fan of waynesmyer permalink

Well now, Mr. Wrabbit: Check out the Mormon Church Tenant: "Blood Atonement" which tells Mormons that they may kill all Gentiles (Non-Mormons)over 8 year of age, should the Church ever be threatened : Check it out! Mountain Meadows Massacre

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 AM on 02/09/2008
- Mormondude See Profile I'm a Fan of Mormondude permalink

The MSM doesn't do complexity. They don't do nuance. They pigeon-hole people. They set up horse races. It's all a choreographed dance to dumb things down to the lowest common denominator.

Apparently, you all gulped it down unquestioned. Congratulations, you're the typical MSM consumer they're catering to.

Did Romney flip-flop on gays? According to the MSM, OF COURSE he did. He was "pro-gay" in 1994, and he's "anti-gay" today. Simple enough, right?

The reality is that Romney was anti-gay marriage in 1994, just as he is today. Romney OPPOSED gay marriage in the same speeches and interviews the MSM quotes from to show how "pro-gay" he was in 1994.

But that sort of annoying factual 'nuance' is simply too much for the pea-brained typical MSM consumer. He was "pro-gay", that's all you need to know.

I guess it's easier to say 'flip-flopper' than to spend 30 seconds informing and educating people.

Anyone that is internet capable enough to come here and post on this website should be ashamed that they would gulp down the MSM choreography so willingly when the facts are out there for your own perusal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 02/08/2008
- med1515 See Profile I'm a Fan of med1515 permalink

"Romney's problem was not that he was a Mormon, but that he was a Mormon sitting on top of a weather vane changing his positions every time the wind blew in a different direction. He showed no moral compass people could trust, and his candidacy was doomed."

Yes!! I couldn't agree more. Being all things to all people pretty much makes you nothin'.

I would disagree with you that his Mormonism had NO role in his doomed candidacy. In the early fall of 2007, when Rudy, the thrice-divorced, was the front runner, McCain, the moderate, was gaining steam (before his campaign implosion and reorganzation), and Huckabee, the Baptist preacher, was a relative unknown, there really wasn't a dog in the race for the Religious Right yet. I think Mitt saw this and tried to go after their sizeable bloc of votes. In doing so, he made that idiotic speech where he talked about how his faith wasn't just A factor in his governing but THE factor. This appeal for their support blew up in his face for two reasons. One, it turns out (shoulda done some homework here), those pesky evangelicals think his Mormonism is a cult; and two, the speech that was originally meant for a small gathering of evangelicals was broadcast nationally and ended up alienating him from the non-religious republicans as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 02/08/2008
- Donald Wolberg See Profile I'm a Fan of Donald Wolberg permalink

Mr. Romney failed because he attempted to be all things to all people, He was quasi-liberal when he wanted to be Governor in a liberal state, and he bacame kind of conservative (whatever that really means) when he wanted to run for the Presidency and contrast his new views with a maverick like Mr. McCain. Romney is very like the Groucho Marks comment about his supposed views, when Grouch said: "These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." Mr, Romney, I fear, more concerned with ego, than principle and role playing than substance.

Regarding the "Mormon issue" one must observe the following. In this nation, anyone is free to believe anything one wishes, no matter how absurd, or in the case of Mormonism, cultish that belief set may be. But, and this is the crucial fact, belief and rationality can conflict and we have the right to wonder if cultish beliefs will influence public policy making and choices leaders make if influenced by those beliefs. We live in an age of science and knowledge. I may believe the world sits atop a giant tortise and it is tortises all the way down. But i am not President. Mr. Romney never said he does not believe the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, or that Native Americans are Jewish remnants of the Lost Tribes of Israel, or that Jesus ended up in America to preach to those lost Jews, or that there were golden tablets in upstate New York. Absurd cultisd beliefs, yes--but "harmless nonsense" except if the person holding them is President looking at science, defense, taxations,education, etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 02/08/2008
- cominginsecond See Profile I'm a Fan of cominginsecond permalink

"Mr. Romney never said he does not believe the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, or that Native Americans are Jewish remnants of the Lost Tribes of Israel, or that Jesus ended up in America to preach to those lost Jews, or that there were golden tablets in upstate New York."

How are any of these beliefs any more absurd, than, say, transubstantiation, or the belief that the world is 6000 years old (which is not a tenet of LDS belief, btw), or the belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead? Be honest, the only reason you think they're more absurd or cultish is because you're *used* to the dominant religions. That's not a valid enough reason to trash a religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 02/08/2008
- JPar See Profile I'm a Fan of JPar permalink

There are a pile of other beliefs just as strange:
-That God was once a man and is now an exalted being, a being of flesh and bones living out in space near a star or an area of the Universe called Kolub.
- That each Mormon male can become a god and receive their own worlds to rule as a god. (Just as the God we worship on earth was once a mere human in another universe who achieved his god status by clean & righteous living.)
- As gods, Mormons believe they will enjoy the reward of eternally procreating spirit children with which to populate their world. And polygamy will be the norm in the afterlife.
- That women can receive salvation only through their Mormon husbands and their destiny to remain pregnant for all eternity. There husbands will enjoy the fruits of polygamy in heaven. It takes a lot of procreation to for a rooky god to populate his own planet.

I just find it difficult to understand how any open minded person could possibly believe this stuff. And I"m quite willing to say the same is true of Leviticus for that matter. The difference is that Mormonism was concocted only 175 years or so. The Old Testament has been kicking around in one form or the other for over 3,000 years.

But what really disturbs many people is that the religion appears to have been founded by a mountebank with a voracious sexual appetite. Amazingly, the polygamy business was not "revealed" to Joseph Smith until his early followers started criticizing him for seducing the congregation"s women. Smith was a charismatic leader who used every underhanded technique in the book to brainwash followers. And some of the secrecy and cultish indoctrination techniques survive to this day.

Many sensible citizens " evangelicals to atheists - wanted Mitt Romney to give us some sort of wink along the lines of Gershwin"s "It Ain't Necessarily So". Mitt"s response was, no, it is exactly precisely so.

Sorry, I want a critical thinker sitting in the Oval Office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 02/08/2008
- Oldsalt See Profile I'm a Fan of Oldsalt permalink

That, of course, begs the question: Are there any religions NOT baed on absurdities, myths and superstition? Name one:________________.
A recovered Catholic...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 02/08/2008
- Mormondude See Profile I'm a Fan of Mormondude permalink

Another glancing blow. That's all people can seem to come up with.

Don't attack his character. Don't attack his intelligence. Don't attack his competence, or his resume, or his success, because those are unassailable.

Instead, 'raise questions' about those things by spreading rumors or stirring up prejudice. Prey on people's bigotry and ignorance. It's the time tested way to do it, and it has been successful once again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 02/08/2008
- Joeseo See Profile I'm a Fan of Joeseo permalink

I must disagree Rev. Wallis. Mormonism IS the issue. Its tenets and its history prove dishonesty is not dishonesty for its followers.

Evangelicals like yourself should stop the ennablement of lies from politicians by insisting on religious neutrality. It is destructive to the role of the church in society and elevates Patricians like Bush above the truth.

I am thankful this Mormon leader quit. Years and years more of cases like Elizabeth Smart would ensue with all that deception of Americans. Enough is enough, lets call evil what it is and be true to American values of bravery and honesty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 02/08/2008
- dlswriter See Profile I'm a Fan of dlswriter permalink

You couldn't be more wrong. It's obvious repubs could care less about flip-floppers (Romney), morality (Giuliani), duds (Thompson), conservatism (Paul). Instead, they do apply a religious litmus test and they could never vote for a mormon because it would make their whole bible a huge hoax. They love fundies and the reason why Huck is doing as good without money and organization. The fundie litmus test wasn't as prevalent in Romney's father's day as it is today.

Romney lost solely because he is mormon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 02/08/2008
- choirgirl See Profile I'm a Fan of choirgirl permalink

the mormon thing does bother me, but not as much as knowing that romney is just a lying sack o shiiite. that being the case, they might pick him to be veep, even tho huckleberry at that point will want it. either way, a losing ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 AM on 02/08/2008
- llinflorida See Profile I'm a Fan of llinflorida permalink

I think the VP role was cast when Charlie Crist came out for McCain before the Florida primary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 02/08/2008
- Mormondude See Profile I'm a Fan of Mormondude permalink

Romney didn't "flip-flop" any more than any other candidate in the race.

McCain did a complete 180 on immigration IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PRIMARY.

Huckabee did as well. He was quoted last year as every person paying a fine, and becoming a legal resident, and suddenly he's signing pledges with Roy Beck about being the toughest out there.

Clinton voted for the war. She funded the war. And yet she's anti-war?

He has never apologized for changing his views on abortion. And he has never changed his views on gay rights. He has never supported gay marriage. He didn't in 1980, 1994, or today. He was SMEARED as changing position, but it was a misrepresentation of pro-civil rights, anti-gay marriage position.

He was branded as a flip-flopper, and it stuck. The same could have been done to any other politician. I believe that one reason it stuck is because of the bigoted mistrust of Mormons by the general public, but who knows?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 02/08/2008
- prolifeprogressive See Profile I'm a Fan of prolifeprogressive permalink

sorry bm, he DID the grandest flip flop imaginable!

He went from pro-choice, pro-immigration and pro-gay marriage to the full opposite inbetween being gov. and running.

The only thin he didn't change was his religion and party!

Personally I think it was all cooked up in by the LDS heirarchy a long time ago and the 'blessed' his duplicity.

Luckily only the mormons and the most blind and desperate fundies were buying.

Not to say the other candidates didn't switch on an issue, most have. But 3 massive social issues?

Romney worked hard to truly earn the flip-flop title, and he won fair and square. ;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 02/08/2008
- Mormondude See Profile I'm a Fan of Mormondude permalink

Romney was never in favor of gay marriage, period. He never said he was, and he never did anything to suggest that he was. He was always pro civil rights for gay people, and that hasn't changed.

He was also never pro-amnesty. The biggest attack they were able to unearth on Romney was that some illegals worked on the Governor's mansion landscaping.

More often than not, Romney is attacked over a single quote or a single phrase taken out of context.

Contrast this with other politicians. McCain WROTE the amnesty legislation himself before flipping 180 degrees. He cursed out other Republicans for obstructing amnesty. Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution, funded it every time, and even voted for the new Iran resolution. Now she's saying that she never wanted war, she wants to end the war, and that we shouldn't warmonger with other countries. They have long track records of meaningful actions that belie their rhetoric.

And yet Romney's the flip flopper? Ridiculous.

As I said, there must be some other explanation here, and I personally think that bigotry and distrust of Mormons is one possible explanation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 02/08/2008
- badmormon See Profile I'm a Fan of badmormon permalink

I'm a Mormon and I wouldn't vote for Mitt but only because he is a flake.
Mitt was born with a silver foot in his mouth kind of like W.
He's always had everything handed to him. He's shallow and phoney.
Everybody could sense it when he started talking. This is not about religion, it's about flakeyness.
The voters are not saying no to mormons, they are saying no to flakes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 02/08/2008
- prolifeprogressive See Profile I'm a Fan of prolifeprogressive permalink

Honestly, it is both.

Jehovah's witness are seen as cults by everyone but themselves. Not trying to be mena or cruel or viscious, but it is true.

Only in a place like Mass. would the super correct politico's look the other way.

Oh, and minnesota. So I suppose a more than few roman catholics have had enough discrimination themselves to cut him some undeserved slack.

As for the silver spoon/bush characterization. You are spot on. But there is more to it that just that.

It was a trifecta of dysfunction: mormon, flip-flopper, all style and money/no real character or wisdom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 02/08/2008
- vsign See Profile I'm a Fan of vsign permalink

I am so disappointed that the democratic party is being taken over again by the wing of elites and pacifists.

I don't want Obama on the ticket at all. Look, alot of old people like me would feel safer with McCain having the red button than Obama. Hillary is my first choice for having the red button. It is all about making us feel safe.

There is little chance Obama could beat McCain. There is a reason the media and republicans are pushing the idea that Hillary has too many negatives - they don't want to have to run against Hillary. They know they can beat Obama because of old people like me.

So Obama saying he can get my vote is a bunch of whoee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 AM on 02/08/2008
- JPar See Profile I'm a Fan of JPar permalink

So you think there's no chance for Obama to beat McCain, eh?
Well here is a pretty vivid illustration of how desperate are the Republicans to run against Hillary.

On his February 7, 2008 radio show, Rush Limbaugh proposed that his legion of wacko right wing "ditto-heads" consider donating money to Hillary Clinton.

Here are excerpts from the transcript provide by Limbaugh on his own website:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

¦ the reason for raising money for Hillary is because that apparently my party is relying on fear and loathing of Hillary to get the nomination, to unite Republicans . . . .
. . .
What if she's not the nominee? We've got make sure she's the nominee if the Republican Party is to be unified. What more loyal thing could I do than to run a fundraiser for Mrs. Clinton?

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

I'm dead serious about considering this. I mean, you may think this is a joke, but it is obvious. I've read things. I've seen things. I've heard people say things, pundits on our side, "Don't worry about McCain, Rush. Hillary is so hated and despised and loathed and so forth. That alone will unite our voters: the fear and loathing for Hillary Clinton." It appears that may be what our strategy is. Rather than get leadership, conservative leadership for our own party, it may well be that that's the thing -- and she's in danger of losing the nomination. Folks, here's this rookie who's been in the Senate for two years, and he's smokin' her on fundraising? He is doing everything that he can and is succeeding, and she's had to borrow money and so forth? If our electoral victory in November requires her being in the race, we gotta stop him; because there's no fear and loathing on Obama. You can't run against Obama fearing him or loathing him or dissing him. It isn't going to work. He doesn't have the personality that makes any of that fit. So we need to keep her in it so we can win it. I'll have more on this as I give future thought to this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 02/08/2008
- JackNasty See Profile I'm a Fan of JackNasty permalink

We should all be afraid, very afraid of what could happen unless Hillary is elected President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 02/08/2008
- prolifeprogressive See Profile I'm a Fan of prolifeprogressive permalink

I'll fix that for ya jack...

We should be afraid, very afraid of what could happen IF hillary is elected president.

btw, despite my hopes, Obama's and Clinton's mid-east policies are all pro-aipac, no promises to get troops out by the end of their first term and both promised to 'keep all options on the table' vis avis Iran.

If that is pacifism ?....

but don't let facts etgt in the way of your analysis or voting...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 02/08/2008
- dvalenzu See Profile I'm a Fan of dvalenzu permalink

We should be afraid, very afraid of Hillary becoming president. Heaven help us all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 02/08/2008
- SEQUOIABISON See Profile I'm a Fan of SEQUOIABISON permalink

Romney was a pretty decent guy when he was governor of a very liberal state, but as a presidential candidate he failed because like Mr. Wallis states, he tried to change his stripes and out nasty Rush Limbaugh as the toughest conservative imaginable.

It did not work, nobody bought into your phony, I am the meanest and most thoughtless Republican candidate in the race, Bullcrap.

You understand, as do we liberal democrats, that Republicans pride themselves on being selfish, mean-spirited, every man for themselves, thoughtless human beings.

You failed their test because they suspected you might secretly harbor thoughts of being kind to old ladies, poor folks, gays and illegal aliens.

Perhaps if you had not tried to sink below the most degenerate conservatives in the country and acted like Republicans did before Reagan made it fashionable to pull the rug out from under the middle and lower classes, and purported yourself more like old school Republicans such as Lincoln Chaffee, you might have made some traction?

But now all I can say is Don"t let the door hit you¦..!

Now you have left Republicans with the Manchurian candidate, a senile old man who never met a war he did not wholeheartedly embrace and if elected would lead this country on a journey to hell.

Fortunately he is no match for our political heavy weight champ, Barack Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 02/08/2008
- WilliePilgrim See Profile I'm a Fan of WilliePilgrim permalink

Don't they "get it"? It wasn't because he was a mormon, it is because he promised to bring him imaginery friend into the decision making process to vital to a secular democratically elected body.
At least now his sons will be able to enlist in the military since they no longer have to help the family business of garnering influence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 AM on 02/08/2008
- prolifeprogressive See Profile I'm a Fan of prolifeprogressive permalink

"At least now his sons will be able to enlist in the military since they no longer have to help the family business of garnering influence."

I am sure they have already signed up!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 02/08/2008
- Mormondude See Profile I'm a Fan of Mormondude permalink

I'm still waiting for Chelsea to sign up and fight momma's war.

Mitt never authorized the Iraq war. He never voted to fund it. He never authorized war with Iran.

Hillary did all those things. So if anyone should be suiting up, it's Chelsea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 02/09/2008
- jrutle See Profile I'm a Fan of jrutle permalink

Another aspect of Romney's failure was his pathetic attempt to wrap himself in Reaganism. Whereas Biden joked that Guiliani sentences were composed of "a verb, a noun, and 9/11" almost the same could be said of Romney's constant references to Reagan. At some point, these purported conservatives are going to need to realize that constantly invoking Reagan's memory does them little good. Voters want to know how they'll deal with current and future matters, not as apparitions of Ronald Reagan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 02/08/2008
- niikeb See Profile I'm a Fan of niikeb permalink

Ok, Mormons are a bit wacky, but who isnt. But if Willard Mitten Romney was a your religion here Hes still a big money idiot who hired lobbyists lied from both sides of his mouth wants to continue this war when he dodged the draft in Vietnam. He lied about marching with MLK, he was one of the most Liberal republican Governor ever, then he back stabbed the liberals. So as a Conservative (of the Ron Paul brand) I cant trust him not to backstab us. I'm ashamed Bush calls himself born again. When Romney calls himself a Christian I cringe, When he calls himself a Republican I cringe. Same with Bush and Cheney, I want nothing to do with them as people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 02/08/2008