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Joan Williams

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Why (Almost) Everything Women Are Told About Work Is Wrong

Posted: 10/20/11 09:01 AM ET

Co-authored by Rachel Dempsey

It's not your fault.

That's the message of the career advice book Rachel and I are working on together, and that's the message of this new report from nonprofit research group Catalyst. Despite all the advice women receive telling them that they fall behind men in the workplace because they don't ask for raises; because they don't network; because they don't promote themselves, it turns out that women actually do all of these things, as much as or more than men. The problem isn't us, it's them.

The Catalyst report takes aim at the claim -- now almost taken for a truism in business literature - that women don't ask for promotions and salary increases at the same level as men. According to the Catalyst report, women were actually found to ask more than men for both increased compensation (63% of women to 54% of men) and a higher job position (19% of women and 17% of men) when they moved on from their first job. And yet, despite the popular wisdom that an employee willing to move to a new company has more negotiating power, women who moved around in their career earned an average of $53,472 less than their counterparts who stayed at the same company.

What the Catalyst report doesn't say is that not only does a lot of the advice out there not help women, much of it actually hurts them. While the takeaway message from the book "Women Don't Ask" is that they should ask, the following caveat is buried in the middle, in a chapter called "Scaring the Boys:" "[W]omen may be perceived to be doing good work only as long as they are toiling away at less important jobs. Once they qualify for and start asking for more important, and therefore more "masculine" jobs, their work may begin to be devalued and their "personal style" may suddenly become a problem."

Masculine characteristics, like aggression, competitiveness, and dominance, overlap almost completely with the characteristics expected of a leader. Feminine characteristics, such as sensitivity and gentleness, overlap almost not at all. For women leaders, writes sociologist Madeline Heilman, the result is "a bad fit between what the woman is perceived to be like and conceptions of what she should be like."

Social scientists call this phenomenon the Backlash Effect. If you're seen as too feminine, you won't get the same opportunities as men in the first place. If you're seen as too masculine, you'll be seen as capable, but judged as undeserving of realizing the opportunities you would otherwise merit, on account of your personality problems. It's a classic damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Unfortunately, much of the advice out there only addresses one side of the problem.

The Catalyst report says that the one behavior that consistently netted women a higher salary was to make their achievements known. This may be true, but as a game plan it needs to be approached with caution. Because of the backlash against aggressive and confident women, women need to soften their strategies for self-promotion much more than men. We'll discuss how to stay on-key while trumpeting your achievements in our next post.

 

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This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
05:56 AM on 10/29/2011
The poll that said people approve of the concept of a female president but couldn't name one they'd vote for highlights the very real issue that there is no acceptable concept of a strong female leader in this society.
04:33 AM on 10/27/2011
In all my career in high tech I don't think I've ever known a single person -- man or woman -- who asked for a raise or promotion.

Raises are given at management's discretion, typically done once per year and I don't think asking gets you one. Promotions have virtually always been posted and then an interview process begins among the candidates.

I think it's been pretty well established that women earn less based on choices they make once they start families -- ie insisting on being the primary or stay at home parent rather than allowing that to their husbands. that's where the real difference is IMO.
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05:51 AM on 10/29/2011
Some do ask for raises, however, I'm not finding that matters, performance does.
As for only women focused on life balance, I see no difference between "I'm leaving to pick up the kids" and "I'm leaving for a round of golf".
06:05 PM on 10/23/2011
Does anyone ever notice how many assumptions exist in the "success" narrative? Many articles seem to assume all that adults go home each day to a healthy, peaceful, life-enhancing environment where physical and mental support is abundant - so that adults can return each day to work "refreshed and ready for battle". Picture all the folks in this article as going home to a household filled with aging parents, mentally ill siblings, and disabled children - and see how much is left for coping with the corporate battlefield. More homes endure these challenges than is generally acknowledged...just a thought....
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SmileAndActNice
Utilitarianism, the -ism that works.
05:09 PM on 10/22/2011
Guys who want to comment. What is your opinion of the guy in this scenario.

I sit down at my assigned table for a card tournament. The guy who eventually shows up to sit across sees me sitting there looks happy to see me. There's just shy of 1,000 people at the Kansas City Grand Prix feeder tournament and fewer than 20 women playing. Most of the women playing are girlfriends of other players. It is not totally unreasonable for him to assume that its dumb luck that I'm in his bracket.

I don't play dumb or lie. But I don't make any effort to correct him either. If he asks how long I've been playing the game I'll say, "16 years". He probably won't.

We play. I usually win. Guys who are nervous enough about their odds to visibly signal relief at the sight of a female opponent tend not to be the better players.

He gets mad and storms off. Regressing to childhood in a pout that would do my nephew proud.

I have not been rude. I have not sharked him or played dumb. I have not insulted his play. And I frequently see the same guys lose to male opponents without losing self control.

But if I win, they are unable to maintain good sportsmanship.

Why is that?
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signgrrl
design & production
05:03 PM on 10/23/2011
it sounds to me like they misled themselves into believing that playing with you is an easy win for them, and got angry at the wrong person after finding out they were wrong.

Not A Guy
02:00 AM on 10/24/2011
My opinion: at a young age, men are led to internalize the notion that it is extremely shameful to lose to a woman, especially at "man" things. They are also taught to respond to shame with anger, and you've witnessed the result.

In my experience as a guy, it is difficult to resist such firmly ingrained ideas. Knowing that it is completely irrational and sexist to feel shame and anger at being bested by a woman doesn't stop the emotions from presenting themselves, unbidden, in my mind.

Combating such feelings requires self awareness, self control, and an understanding of why they are so toxic in the first place. The guys you describe could lack any number of the above. This doesn't excuse their behavior in any way, but I hope it helps to explain it.
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PalaceOfWisdom
Want gun control? End the MIC
09:54 AM on 10/21/2011
"It's not your fault."

Had I read only those four words, I could have guessed that women were being sold a book. You know what definitely won't advance your gender? Perpetual victimhood.

"Masculine characteristics, like aggression, competitiveness, and dominance"

See, that's blatant stereotyping that doesn't reflect positively on men at all. Who will write a book about that? No one. Will I grab onto it and say woe is me I'm a victim? No, because it gets me nowhere. It's wrong and I'll call it out when it happens, but I won't use it to illicit sympathy.

When women acted frail and helpless, that didn't make them appealing as leaders. When women act like the most exaggerated stereotypes of what they think men are, apparently that doesn't work either. The common thread? Both are an act. No one likes a person who seems fake.
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inmyhumbleopinion
Vote third party.
12:47 PM on 10/21/2011
Have you considered it's not an act? We have an entire generation or two of women who have been raised on the notion that they are equal to men, comport themselves as such--e.g. contribute equally to discussions, raise questions to be addressed, and create work product that is equal to or superior to others'-- and then come smack up against the reality that they will always be perceived differently and usually as lesser than. That's a huge discrepancy between what they've been trained to think and how they are evaluated in the workplace. Unlike academia where achievement is measured numerically and on the basis of completing a set list of criteria, I would guess the number of true meritocracies in the corporate world is infinitesimally small. That gap between actual and perceived achievement is probably the largest contributor to women leaving corporate life; after finding the same behavior at different companies they soon realize it's a systemic issue, and the search for "a good fit" is somewhat futile. It's not an accident that the biggest growth sector for small business is a woman-owned operation.
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blarneydude
I can handle the truth. Now let's talk about you.
05:41 PM on 10/21/2011
I know you will excuse my pointing out that PalaceOfWisdom might consider your post to be a case in point of what he is talking about.

Contrast with anneloyd's post below...with which I wouldn't be surprised if he agreed.

(I do.)
05:31 AM on 10/21/2011
I've read the comments here and amazed at the hurtful, personal comments...what is going on??? Why can't there be a debate without a need to attack one other? As a women's coach and as a commentator on women and women's issues, I have often said that business needs to change to accommodate women. Unfortunately (generally speaking) business is run by men for men, and with the numbers of women in the workforce and overtaking men at University, we need to bring flexibility in its many forms to the workplace. BUT, women should lead this charge by being true and authentic to who they are. We should show how it's done through being our feminine selves which includes collaboration, nurturing, intuition, receptivity....Women are powerful creatures yet we forget this because we've forgotten how powerful we are - as women. So it starts with us first, way before we can make any changes in business.
kmd4excel
A reality check for progressives
08:35 AM on 10/22/2011
anneloyd,

Why should business change to suit women? Why shouldn't women change business to suit themselves? Ergo, start their own businesses and show the "oppressive" men how it is done?

"I am woman, hear me roar!" is getting a tad old. Despite enormous advancements by women within the workplace -- CEO's of major corporations, board memberships, and lest we forget: Oprah and her mega-empire -- we continue to hear about how women are so under appreciated, and underpaid. And I say, BUNK.

Women have access to funds and subsidies men don't through minority set asides. Women have anti-discrimination laws which give them a leg up over men as well. Women have succeeded in gaining a foothold in formally exclusive male professions such as firefighting and police forces -- in some cities because they have succeeded in having the admissions requirements lowered to allow it.

It is time for women to stand on their own merits. Instead of insisting that men change to suit them, perhaps they should change to suit the marketplace. Men have had to do this for thousands of year.
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jessjesskk
Benevolent Zombie Power
01:52 AM on 10/21/2011
Career is about networking. Knowing people. Building trust. Being trusted.
Reality is that this is much more difficult for a woman in today's society because (i) relations with men are never that clear and (ii) relations between women are, usually, much less straightforward than relations between men.

Add to that the pregnancy time issue and the increased likelyhood to stay at home to take care of the child.

compound all that by society's values where men are hunters and women are chosing the hunters and you make for a very different approach to life and to work / ambition.
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Romeover
Civilization is for weaklings.
06:10 AM on 10/21/2011
"Behind every great man is a woman who 'hasn't got a thing to wear'."
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Hamid Lorette
Ignorance and Extremism are the Enemy
12:19 AM on 10/21/2011
I think the woman's vote should be repealed because since then you all have been acting like men, wearing pants, NOT having kids, in love with other women, ruining our country by voting for the prettiest candidate, I'll tell you what this sucks for everyone and it is your fault. You VOTE for whoever is prettiest plus don't want kids, WEIRD!
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jessjesskk
Benevolent Zombie Power
01:53 AM on 10/21/2011
I hope you are joking. Freedom to do whatever you want with your life is absolutely key.
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10:21 AM on 10/21/2011
Wow - go home.
08:45 PM on 10/20/2011
Here is my advice for anyone.

Never ask for a raise. If the company isn't giving you raises it is because they don't value you or your work. This is especially true if they give you a good review but no raise. At least if they give you a review showing where you need to improve they are interested in your success.

If they give you a positive review and no raise they are a loser company. Why would you want to work for a company like that? Go find another job with a company that will value you. The time to brag is in your interview. Once you get the job just do it. If its a good company trust me you will get noticed and the raises will follow.

I have left 5 jobs in my life for this reason and in each case they offered to beat the other offer. Never accept it. They just want to keep you on until they can find a replacement and have you train them.
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Paluxy Moon
09:29 PM on 10/20/2011
I agree with you to a point. There IS a certain satisfaction in leaving a company that hadn't really met your salary requirements. AND YET, I do believe a certain amount of negotiating room exists that most are not aware of. AND HEREIN LIES THE DIFFERENCE between promotablity and hitting the road. This is where INTERPERSONAL SKILLS come into play, and can make all the difference.

Know who you are dealing with, and meet them with honesty and you will be rewarded. If not immediately, then later on. Put yourself in their shoes, and imagine what support they need, offer it and expect no immediate reward... Set your EGO aside, and just WAIT....
05:37 PM on 10/20/2011
This is all such bs. As a turnaround guy for 40 years I have observed the following:

1. Work for a company that is tuned into relationships and employee nurturing and you will do well if you are into relationships and employee nurturing independent of your gender or race - at least until they go bankrupt.
2. Work for a company that values results independent of gender or race and produce results and you will be successful - as will the company.
3. Work for a company that is interested in your gender or race and you are working for the wrong company.

The days of the "mother" company that took care of its employees independent of their job performance is as gone as the three martini lunch. It is sad, I liked my three martini lunches. But to suggest that the "old boy network" has its boot on the throat of women everywhere is just tired old BS.
07:20 PM on 10/20/2011
but, you are not a woman. so maybe there's a nugget of truth to the article that you didn't observe.
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Paluxy Moon
07:24 PM on 10/20/2011
I disagree. The topic is ripe for discussion, so we're discussing it. There are still many sectors that have yet to retain women, yet those same companies recognize that something is wrong and can't figure out why.

The company I work for is still at a loss to discover why women don't stay. I am one of only two design-qualified electrical engineers at a nuclear power plant, and have been there nine years.

Do I want to spend the rest of my life trying to educate the men I work with on how to relate to professional women, or will I choose to go somewhere else where the situation is already better? Can you guess what I will do?

Case in point: at a recent monthly safety meeting the person assigned to discuss a wellness topic chose the topic of hormones (male and female) and interjected several comments about his ex-wife and her moodswings. Our engineering director was in attendance and said nothing. Yes, this still happens.

The larger issue is that women still get left out of important discussions. My own supervisor never, ever has sit-downs with me. He called in sick last year on the day my evaluation was scheduled. I've already gone over his head and am waiting for the backlash. Meanwhile, I update my resume.
04:29 AM on 10/22/2011
So you were upset at that little comment by a man, think men can't relate to you, and are avoiding you in this male bastion. It seems that their fear is justified by your resentment. They don't know what to do with you but for the company it might just be easier to let the men be themselves and for these two employees to learn how to deal with being around men instead.
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independentvoter007
God bless America
04:47 PM on 10/20/2011
Many times women are held back by other women. Studies have shown that women overwhelmingly prefer male bosses, more so even than men do.
Shesme
My micro-bio will no longer be silent
07:45 PM on 10/20/2011
Let me guess: You're male. I've heard this before, almost always from males. Women I actually know and work with don't find it to be true.
Bianca S
You can't go trick-or-treating. Ever. For a week
08:31 PM on 10/20/2011
No the poster is correct.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/24346/americans-prefer-male-boss-female-boss.aspx

40% of women prefer to have a male boss, compared to 20% of women who prefer a female bodd. 32% have no preference.

Also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1206053/Women-prefer-work-male-bosses-better-managers-prone-moods.html#ixzz1bN5YjwcT
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Paluxy Moon
07:46 PM on 10/20/2011
You're just quoting another headline. When you've got something to add to the discussion, we're ready willing and able to accept your input.
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Shaun Hensley
The American Experiment has failed
04:14 PM on 10/20/2011
Women earn more than men until they decide to have children, because they also elect to raise the children. This is the reason for the average income disparity.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html
05:57 PM on 10/20/2011
This is an untrue. Women do not "elect" to raise children, with the pay disparity, does a couple decide to give up the higher paying job for someone to take care of children? Is it what she would prefer? Many would say no, it is just a practical reality. And for those who never have children, please explain the pay difference? I spent years in corporate america and this is the first article I have read that makes sense. Once I moved up the ranks, even though I was better at my position than almost everyone, I was still considered to be more agressive than the men even though they were clearly more agressive with insidious behaviour than me. No matter what I did, it didn't change. Only reason that I came to was it was my gender. So, I now make less money, but opened my own business rather than fight an uphill battle. It really shouldn't be so difficult in corporations. And ultimately it hurts generations of people, particularly those being raised by a single mother, or even a couple who live with less income because of the disparity. We may have moved, but we haven't moved far, the reasons and solutions are just more difficult to discern and fix.
07:19 AM on 10/21/2011
Women on average choose careers that are lower paying. If more women were choosing higher paying fields, than it would be practical for the man to stay home. There are many studies that show women without children make more money than men without children when correcting for field, education and hours worked.
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TheBluesGuy
I'm too old to be governed by fear of dumb people.
05:42 AM on 10/22/2011
I, too, took a pay cut and formed my own company. I suppose I could claim it was my gender. Or, it could simply be that I didn't truly fit into a corporate mentality.

But I'm interested in why women don't "elect" to raise children. Didn't child care come up for discussion when considering whether to have another child?
Shesme
My micro-bio will no longer be silent
07:46 PM on 10/20/2011
It's one reason among multiple reasons. Even if women don't have children, they still earn less than men doing comparable jobs.
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Shaun Hensley
The American Experiment has failed
07:55 PM on 10/20/2011
Again you didn't read the link. Women earn MORE then men right out of school.
02:47 PM on 10/20/2011
I find women far superior to men as superiors in all aspects. With men it's all about competition. With women it's all about cooperation. Maybe it's just me but I find it much easier to reach a goal with the help of someone else instead of their competition.
04:43 PM on 10/20/2011
Not in my experience. But then again anecdotal evidence is just that.
06:06 PM on 10/20/2011
"I find women far superior to men as superiors in all aspects."
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02:30 PM on 10/20/2011
AMEN!!
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inmyhumbleopinion
Vote third party.
02:01 PM on 10/20/2011
God bless you for this post. Every single evaluation I ever had in my corporate life had some variation on the notion that I was too forthright and too assertive. (Compared to whom?) I had once been accused of being "too logical". WTF?

And somehow I was expected to change my approach while still achieving all of my deliverables in a very, very fast-paced, demanding, and deadline-driven environment. It astounds me even today how much bias there is against women in corporate environments and how the ones who are the most successful are also ultra-feminine. How's that for a reality check?

Glad I'm working for myself these days. The only butts I have to kiss are my clients'.
06:04 PM on 10/20/2011
Those comments are euphemisms for "you talk too much."
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Paluxy Moon
08:07 PM on 10/20/2011
No, they really meant, "You have balls, and we feel threatened by it." Or maybe, "you're hot, but too bossy" or even, "I'm afraid you might castrate me."

Anytime a women is described as "too aggressive" it's a red flag for a male-dominated environment in need of enlightenment.

Let me ask you, and this is a rhetorical question, how many times have you heard women being objectified in male conversation in such an environment? If you can answer honestly, then there's your answer.
06:07 PM on 10/20/2011
My sentiments exactly. I was told I had too "much integrity" by HR after a horrible, horrible premeditated incident between one of our executives and our broader management team that demonstrated the worst lack of integrity that I have seen in my life in corporate america. Really? Doing the right thing by the people in your company is too much integrity? So, I moved to a profession that is not known for its integrity, but because I go to bed every night with my integrity intact and unthreatened, not only am I happier, but I am doing relatively well in a poor economy simply because I am acquiring clients due to my high integrity and ability to do right by my clients and the law first.