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Joe Grace

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The NRA Needs to Stand Down on Stand Your Ground

Posted: 04/17/2012 4:35 pm

I was in St. Louis this past weekend, where more than 60,000 gun enthusiasts gathered at the NRA's annual convention. You could enter a booth and squeeze off virtual rounds from an array of high-powered weapons, hear pro-gun speeches by candidates, and join debates about the right to carry concealed guns.

What was absent from the NRA convention, however, was any real discussion on the "Stand Your Ground" law that encourages armed confrontations, and makes all of us less safe. This dangerous "shoot first, ask questions later" law has been raised as a potential defense for George Zimmerman, the self-styled neighborhood watchman who stands accused of murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin in Florida.

The NRA has relentlessly pushed some form of "Stand Your Ground' into law in 25 states -- despite widespread opposition from police and prosecutors, who believe Stand Your Ground laws promote gun violence and vigilantism, not law and order. Stand Your Ground laws don't make us safer. They make us less safe. Since this law was passed in Florida, so-called "justifiable homicides" have nearly tripled in the Sunshine State.

The NRA's silence on Stand Your Ground may have been by design, as it monitors a growing chorus of public opinion rising against this reckless law. "Charlton Heston used to say, "Sometimes silence is the right thing to do," NRA executive vice president Wayne Lapierre told the St. Louis Dispatch last week. "And that really is the case here." After weeks of silence, the closest LaPierre came to confronting the NRA's role in enabling this tragic outcome was to suggest that America's outrage at Trayvon's death was fueled by sensationalized news reports.

Well, I'm sick of the silence. I'm sick of the way the NRA tries to hide every time there's a mass shooting in our country, because there's nothing they can say except to deny reality. I'm tired of watching our elected officials cower and vote for terrible policies on guns, because they buy into the myth that the NRA is omnipotent. It isn't.

And I am outraged that Stand Your Ground is being raised as a defense for Zimmerman, who killed an unarmed 17-year-old as he walked home from buying a bag of candy at the store.

I fought against a similar Stand Your Ground law in Pennsylvania, as director of CeaseFirePA, a gun violence prevention group. Working with PA Gov. Ed Rendell, we beat Stand Your Ground when Gov. Rendell vetoed the law. But as soon as he left office, Governor Tom Corbett rubber-stamped Stand Your Ground in Pennsylvania.

When the news about Trayvon's death reached me -- along with the Stand Your Ground implications -- I was outraged and decided to do something about it. I posted a petition online at Change.org, calling for the repeal of the law "shielding Trayvon's killer."

The petition struck a chord. In just over three weeks, 225,894 Americans, from every state, have signed this petition calling for the repeal of Stand Your Ground in Florida. Their voices are real, and their outrage is genuine.

So I went to St. Louis, and I brought all these American voices with me. We held a news conference at St. Louis City Hall, with St. Louis elected officials, faith leaders, community anti-violence advocates, and three special people from Tucson, Arizona. On a video screen scrolled the names of tens of thousands of American who wanted their voice heard by the NRA in St. Louis, and who want to see Stand Your Ground repealed -- In Florida -- and then in every state that has it.

One of those voices in St. Louis belonged to Mavy Stoddard. Mavy, 77, survived the carnage of Tucson, where Jared Loughner shot and killed six people, including a nine-year-old girl, and wounded 13 others, including Mavy and Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. Mavy, who owns guns, was in St. Louis along with Patricia Maisch and (ret.) Colonel Bill Badger, who were also in Tucson that terrible day.

I spent the weekend with Mavy, Pat and Colonel Badger, and left St. Louis moved by their sincerity, eloquence, and above all, their heart-rending stories.

"My husband Dory saved my life," Mavy said quietly Saturday in St. Louis. "He shielded me with his body, and I felt him breathe his last. You don't ever forget that, and that's why I'm here. I can't be silent any more about what guns are doing to our country."

I never did hear much from the NRA this weekend about Stand Your Ground, except for Wayne Lapierre's message blaming the media for the scandal. Guns don't kill people, the media does, or something like that. But I did hear the voices of St. Louis citizens, and over 225,000 Americans, and Pat Maisch, Colonel Badger and my new friend, Mavy. The sound of their voices is growing louder and stronger, every day.

Stand Your Ground should be abolished from the land.

 
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I was in St. Louis this past weekend, where more than 60,000 gun enthusiasts gathered at the NRA's annual convention. You could enter a booth and squeeze off virtual rounds from an array of high-powe...
I was in St. Louis this past weekend, where more than 60,000 gun enthusiasts gathered at the NRA's annual convention. You could enter a booth and squeeze off virtual rounds from an array of high-powe...
 
 
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12:53 PM on 05/17/2012
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
05:03 PM on 04/20/2012
The author is appalled that justifiable homicide has tripled in Florida. That's what makes this guy scary and people like him in the gun control world. He thinks the ability to justifiably defend yourself is wrong. It would be better that your a vicitim. Being a minority and having fled a dictatorship to live the nicest thing I can say about people like him is naive arrogant child.
08:19 PM on 04/21/2012
Interestingly enough, the justifiable homicides by police also tripled at the same time as for civilians. Since SYG has nothing to do with police, it seem logical to presume there is a different reason both rates tripled simultaneously.
10:21 PM on 04/21/2012
I would have to look into other states stats that have " stand your ground". Interesting that the anti gunners are not pointing out that states with this law have also increased in justifiable homicide. That would give them a better case in public. I think this fact is only in Florida.
12:35 AM on 04/27/2012
According to DOJ, the jusifiable homicide rate in 1980 was 500, twice the rate when all those CCW's and SYG were law.
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QuietProfessional
Recovering Jedi
02:39 PM on 04/20/2012
Probably most of the people opining against Florida's SYG law haven't bothered to read it. Here's what it requires:

1) You can't be doing something unlawful yourself. Tell me how that's unreasonable.
2) You have to be attacked. Tell me how that's unreasonable. Note: many of you who haven't read the law think it authorizes you to open fire on someone you merely "feel" is committing a crime. If that's what you think, you're wrong.
3) You have to have a right to be where you are. Tell me how that's unreasonable.
4) You have to reasonably believe force is necessary. Tell me how that's unreasonable. But, again, a lot of you think it's just what you "feel" that matters. Wrong. It's what a reasonable person would believe.
5) You have to be in reasonable fear of serious harm or death. Tell me how that's unreasonable. Again, it's not what you "feel". It's what would have been reasonable for you believe.

In view of the foregong, I would challenge anyone to sustain the argument that there's anything "extreme" or "unreasonable" about the SYG law.
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03:03 PM on 04/20/2012
In addition, the SYG law requires that you have not done anything to provoke the initial attack.

Thus, a person may lawfully hurl insults at another without committing a crime, and be in a place he lawfully can be, but if such insults provoked the attack, then SYG does not apply.

SYG only applies is there is no degree of fault whatsover on the part of the person employing it. In a circumstance where a person is merely walking down the street and is assualted by a mugger, then SYG applies. If a person is taunting another and that provokes an assualt, SYG does not apply.
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QuietProfessional
Recovering Jedi
03:35 PM on 04/20/2012
Good points. It's ironic that the same people who would have us believe that every other inmate on death row was framed or railroaded by the prosecution now want to make it even easier for prosecutors to bring a capital case.
10:59 AM on 04/20/2012
As a violence policy advocate, it’s important to note that none of what I write is personal conjecture but instead comes from the study of statistics, polls, and opinion found through research of web sites on the Internet. It’s come to my attention that gun owners belong to the NRA and are Tea Party Insurrectionists Extremist Gunophile Fetishists. It’s also notable that they will often give up their families, careers, and even their life to have “Wild West” type shootouts over minor disputes such as parking spots or to compensate for some other shortcoming. Again, this is not personal conjecture but consensus among the public as verified in the Comments sections of several web sites.
07:32 AM on 04/20/2012
As usual, you're simply wrong in everything you think, feel, say or do. It's your right to be so, but know that your ignorance is viewed as a sickness to many of us.
08:33 PM on 04/18/2012
...If someone is going to invade my house without my permission, I'm going to assume it is to steal from me, rape me, or kill me. I deserve the right to defend my property, mind, and property.

There is no "shoot to harm", because if you do that and miss, you're just going to piss the burglar/rapist/murderer off and they'll do even more harm to you. You shoot to kill in such situations.

And hey, I have only shot a gun twice and don't own one, and even I know this stuff!

What's wrong with you?
02:39 PM on 04/19/2012
Actually, you shoot to stop. In Florida, legal assumption is made when someone forcibly enters your home, they are there to harm you or your family, and deadly force is authorized in self-defense.
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schotts
Strength and Honor
03:03 PM on 04/20/2012
Joe is confused.

He thinks inanimate objects cause violence.

He thinks that victims should have to run and hide under the bed or behind a trash can, cover their eyes and say "please go away" over and over.

Joe is pro criminal.
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jayde1313
USAF Gunfighter By Profession
03:13 PM on 04/20/2012
Ching-ching su dui! (My Thai is a bit rusty) Thumbs up, however!
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Pete Gerasia
If you can't think logically, don't talk to me.
03:51 PM on 04/18/2012
I'm not one of the all or nothing gun owners that are out there. I believe that background checks can help lessen crime, and I don't think that training could hurt if you want to carry for protection. But the Stand Your Ground law is nothing but a good thing. Thanks to the media, the SYG laws got a bad name because of a case that had nothing to do with the law.

It doesn't say you can start a confrontation, and then kill the person. It doesn't say you can shoot at anything that makes you feel threatened. That's all extreme exaggeration by the media.

All the law allows you to do is use lethal force if you are in imminent danger of death or severe bodily harm. ONLY if you were not the agressor. Gun owners are taught the rules to self defense when they purchase a gun in most states. There's a lot more to it than the media would have you believe.

Bottom line, the stand your ground law protects the innocent.
12:51 AM on 04/19/2012
Killing Americans isn't a good thing. SYG allows slaying, its the judge. jury and executioner law.
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Pete Gerasia
If you can't think logically, don't talk to me.
01:40 AM on 04/19/2012
Ok... you respond to my post, but did you read any of it? Because if you did you're response is impossible.
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Pete Gerasia
If you can't think logically, don't talk to me.
01:46 AM on 04/19/2012
I can't believe I have to say this this often, but people really need to stop discussing things without having a clue about what it is they're discussing.
03:30 PM on 04/18/2012
Zimmerman could have shot Trayvon in the leg to startle him knowing that Trayvon is unarmed. His concealed weapon is closer to the leg than the chest. But Zimmerman went for the chest. He shot Trayvon right on the chest to make sure Trayvon is DEAD and will not testify.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
07:52 AM on 04/19/2012
And if the reports are true that Martin was beat Zimmerman's head in to the concreate, do you think that you would have presence of mind to aim for a leg? And where do you think most concealed carry giun are carried? Ankle holsters? From your comment you sahow that there is little about concealed carry that is understood by you.
02:40 PM on 04/19/2012
You watch too much TV. One always shoots for center of mass.
03:17 PM on 04/18/2012
I love the SYG law. It is a great way to end an argument. Just carry a concealed weapon around you all the time. Then when you have an argument with another person, flash your gun. The other person either fights or flights. The other person either runs away from you because you scared him with your gun. Or the other person tries to take away the gun from you. You wait for the other person to attack you. You cry for help, then get a couple cuts and bruises here and there, then shoot the other person. Job done. Police arrives, then just say it was all for self-defense. Show them your cuts, bruises and blood, and the police will not even doubt your story. No arrest and no trial. You are off the hook just like that. This is a perfect way to get rid of anyone that p*s ses you off.
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Pete Gerasia
If you can't think logically, don't talk to me.
03:40 PM on 04/18/2012
SYG laws don't condone anything of the sort. Enjoy federal prison if you think like that.
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David Carson
07:59 PM on 04/18/2012
I just adore how the disarmanuts mischaracterize the law to try to gain political points
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
07:47 AM on 04/19/2012
Through out you entire posting, all I see is emotions. Fear being among the most noticable.
02:41 PM on 04/18/2012
Stand your ground doesn't mean follow and confront. Stand your ground is logical, supported by the public broadly, and it is going to be adopted by more states.
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LouGots
10:28 AM on 04/18/2012
"I fought against a similar Stand Your Ground law in Pennsylvania. . .."

Fought and lost.

Let's all see how this goes down in the end. The grabbers are going to get as much out of the Trayvon (tm) thing as they got out of Tucson, which is nothing..

You have to be there on the ground to know what is going on in the gun culture. It is rampant. You have to go to gun shops, go to ranges to get even a glimpse of it. We are going all out, all the time.

My club has experienced unprecedented member retention and growth--as much and as fast as we can handle. We are running all our programs full tilt, and cementing our relationships with local government, and with non-gun community organizations of all stripes. We don't just shoot, we host hunter education, law enforcement, the boy scouts and other youth organizations--contacts, networking, involvement in local government,growing, planning..

The best part is that the grabbers don't see it, and they deny it is happening. They have an ideologically induced blindness, and therefore can neither understand the RKBA bonanza, , nor counter it. I can't tell you what is going to happen in the 2012 election, but I can tell you that the gun issue is huge, bigger and more pivotal than the grabbers and their MSM toadies can imagine.
12:57 AM on 04/19/2012
NRA apologists ignore the gun use killing of 30,000 Americans a year. They are a self satisfied bunch blind to the real cost of gun use.
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LouGots
07:03 AM on 04/19/2012
That "30,000" figure the Grabbers like to bandy about is thoroughly discredited. To begin with, it includes suicides, which choices made by the actors and are hardly anyone else's "fault." The bogus number also includes legal, justified shootings by law enforcement and by armed citizens. By definition, every one one these was a better thing that the alternative, it was a crime prevented, and other crimes deterred.

Finally many, many of those dreaded "gun use killings" were critter-on-critter incidents of no net loss to society.

The Grabbers haven't figured it out yet that when they bleat about how dangerous society appears to be, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Raising public consciousness of the threat of violent crime serves the gun culture. It reminds the people of what the RKBA is there for, that is, to reserve to the individual the power to be the master of this own fate..
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
07:39 AM on 04/19/2012
This was brought to you by SSDD Broken Records where you hear the same thing 30,000 times a day for 30,000 days. Hey we say it until we get sick it hearing also.

This message was robo-posted by SSDD Broken Records where all we think about is gun deaths.
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ConservativebyNature
Molon Labe ! !
09:24 AM on 04/19/2012
I'd fan you again if I could. Very well said. Fav'd
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hagagaga
You can't take the sky from me.
09:59 AM on 04/18/2012
"Standing down," as you put it, would be compromising with the criminals' rights advocates.
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Grumpy Man
Disappointed idealist
07:53 AM on 04/18/2012
According to Joe, SYG laws "encourages armed confrontations, and makes all of us less safe."

I see the words. I read the words. I understand the message conveyed. I don't believe him. I wish he would provide us with evidence of his claims. Instead he provides a link where we read the following:

"...no long-term studies definitively tie the rise in justifiable killings to the passage of laws that relieve citizens of the responsibility to back away from threats."

Nothing new. Ignore fact and rely on emotion. Keep on typing Joe. Many hand-wringers will gladly jump on board with you.

Joe also mentions that justifiable homicides have tripled since SYG was adopted in Florida, then provides a link where we learn:

"Most justifiable killings are committed by police officers; those cases, which have also tripled, are not included in these statistics."

Repeat: "have also tripled..."

Justifiable shootings have evidently increased at the same rates for police as they have for citizens.

Very interesting Joe. Thanks for the link.
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LouGots
10:14 AM on 04/18/2012
That justifiable defensive uses of force have increased under Shall-Issue, Castle Doctrine and Stand-Your-Gournd laws means that the laws are working as they are supposed to work.

Every justified shoot means a crime prevented, and many crimes deterred. On balance, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The entire Right-to-Carry revolution is about power and fear: power to the people of civil society, and fear to the criminal underclass who would prey on us.
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Llib Noswad
aka: Bill, Conservative
12:14 PM on 04/18/2012
"The entire Right-to-Carry revolution is about power and fear: power to the people of civil society, and fear to the criminal underclass who would prey on us.”

And a government that would scrap our Constitution. F & F
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07:03 AM on 04/18/2012
"The petition struck a chord. In just over three weeks, 225,894 Americans, from every state, have signed this petition calling for the repeal of Stand Your Ground in Florida. "

So over 200,000 people clicked some buttons on the Internet to call for legal changes in a place where they have no legal representation and no legal voting rights??? And you think this is going #NoMoreNRA?

I'm not an NRA member - they are too tame for me - but you make me laugh!
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07:00 AM on 04/18/2012
"And I am outraged that Stand Your Ground is being raised as a defense for Zimmerman, "

Twinkies were once used as a murder defense if I recall correctly. Shall we get rid of Twinkies too?
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
10:42 AM on 04/18/2012
More accurately, Twinkies were referenced as evidence in support of a defense.