The MoveOn Dust-Up, the GOP's Self-Righteous Indignation, and Winning the White House

"How many times do we charge up the hill and run straight into enemy fire before we figure this shit out?"

I remember an angry Republican asking that question to no one in particular in a crowded GOP conference. The government was shut down, the public was testy and Bill Clinton was once again pounding a GOP Congress more interested in ideological purity than practical results.

This week's Moveon.org dust-up reminded me of that time when we Republicans led with our hearts and got pounded in our faces. We loved bathing in self-righteous indignation. Our base loved it too. But the practical results were always the same: we scared little children, household pets and crossover voters. It was a really great way to alienate the voters we needed the most.

Whoever dreamed up the ad questioning the loyalty of Iraq's top soldier would have fit in great with those of us who drove the political agenda in 1995 -- and guaranteed Bill Clinton's re-election in 1996. While I'm sure Move On's ad locked down the base in Manhattan and Madison, Democrats need to be more concerned with wooing voters in Tampa and Toledo.

I know this post will generate nasty emails. Every time I dare to tell Democrats how they can avoid the mistakes we Republicans made in the past, I am told to mind my own business. To those who are so offended, my apologies. Go ahead and spend the next year kicking around Generals and God. While you're at it, attack the Boy Scouts and burn a few flags for the hell of it.

You're right. Great election strategy. What was I thinking?

But for those who who actually want to win the White House in 2008, call your friends in liberal organizations and tell them to take a deep breath before they decide again to attack soldiers in a war zone.

Come on. This really shouldn't be that hard. The White House is the Democrats' to lose.

The president and his war are overwhelmingly unpopular.

The social issues that used to pull conservatives to the polls (guns, gays and God) are now so overshadowed by Mr. Bush's war that a pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-gay New York mayor is running away with the GOP primary.

Add in the fact that Republican senators are getting caught in bathroom stalls and whorehouses and one wonders what the Democrats could possibly do to give George Bush the upper hand with swing voters.

Oh yeah. They could attack a highly decorated general.

Ugh. It's deja vu all over again.

Comments

[raker]

Things you'll never hear in bizarro Bush World:

"The Senate condemns Ann Coulter's statement that Kristen Breitweiser is glad her husband died, that he probably hated her, and his death was the best thing that ever happened to her."

"The White House condemns the Republican party for denigrating war heroes Max Cleland and John Kerry."

"The Democrats condemn the condemnation of MoveOn, because MoveOn's remark wasn't to trash a man for political advantage. It was a statement of the truth."

[ThatsNotFunny]

You're right, Joe, he's a decorated officer of the US military. He's seen combat with guns and bombs and death and destruction. I think he can take a little criticism from a newspaper ad. If he can't, then he shouldn't be in command.

[mommamia526]

Joe, I like people like Lou Dobbs. Not that I always agree with his points - most of the time I do - but he is a journalist who advocates for the American Middle Class, for jobs, and he gets conversations going, people thinking and arguing, and that is how we should act in the U.S. today. Not everyone has the same viewpoints, but journalistic advocacy, at this time, could bring some changes. I am looking for more journalists, and programs, like Lou Dobbs. And I do not need anyone to tell me what is appropriate or not, what works or not, I can tell that, for myself at least, all alone and without guidance. At election time I make my decisions, and it does not make one iota of a difference what anyone thinks, as long as it is a one-voice pronouncement from Mt. Olympus, Joe. I want dialogue, conversation and I want to hear what other Americans think, not just you. Who cares? Now, what we need is improvement in education, including for those with specific learning disabilities, such as caused by ADDH, or autism. Do you agree with that? And Americans need to be able to buy that house to live in, and raise a family in. They should not have to move from one side of the U.S. to another and live in rabbithatches. We also need affordable healthcare. Just the basics, man, and food that does not kill us, literally, or financially, or both. Just for starters. Kids should be able to go to College, and without working two jobs, as my grandkids are. Everyone is exhausted. The MoveOn.org ad is just a non issue. Joe, go to work, let us hear from you, on the tube. As my favorite doctor says, if a patient needs a doctor, he needs to be able to SEE that doctor. If an American needs to lose weight, he should be able to buy decent food, at a price he can afford, and have the time to prepare it and eat it.

[mommamia526]

Hey, Joe! I have not written to you for years, but remember what I said about the invasion of Iraq? I said it was stupid from the beginning. Now, but thank you so very much for your tips. I am evaluating them. I agree with you and also do not like this specific ad. However, sometimes this kind of *crap* works, and it appears that the Democrats, some of them, have taken a few lessons from the Republicans. By the way, Joe, I can not believe that you are STILL associated with the Republican Party. That swiftboat advertising barrage was more than unethical, and untrue. But I can not remember that I heard you say anything about that at the time. However, again, it has been a long time. I have not watched you for years. Got bored with you. We can use some good tips, and serious analysis, and what we need is not a further division between Americans, between Republicans and Democrats. What we DO need is real morality, higher ethics, truth, and getting some ideas how we can get out of the falling dollar, the endless deficits, outflow of jobs and industries (i.e. revenue), this stupid war, and some CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS. Do you have any, Joe?

[ImmanuelGoldstein]

Hey Joe, do you have any actual evidence that the non-wingnut public is actually mad about this ad? Any poll results? Anything like that? Just because the wingnuts are frothing at the mouth doesn't mean anybody else is. 52% of the public didnt expect the great general to even give a decent report.

[bocalou]

Joe, Moveon may be leading with the heart. I don't think that is a mistake.

Of course Petraeus carries Bushes water. That's what good soldiers do! Anybody who attacks a soldier for following orders from the Commander and Chief is a idiot. Soldiers don't become generals by not following orders.

I think the mistakes are these isolated and infrequent attacks from non-neocons. I say non-neocons because there's an awful lot of moderate people starving for leadership against the right wing nuts...Chu­ck Hagel to name one. Instead of one person or one group dropping one bomb at a time on the neocons, Dem. leaders and groups should be doing this daily in an orchestrated onslaught the neocons deserve. It's not like there's a shortage of neocon screw up material. There's been several a day since they took office!

That's how the neocons are doing it and they are winning. They organize their attacks and repeat messages over and over again, until the weak minded and the media are brainwashed. Last I heard, the White House leads the legislature in popoularity polls 28% to 11%. Clearly, they are winning. But, there's a huge vacuum of opportunity for change not be filled by anyone.

There are Dems who are great Americans and truly want results right now like Kucinich, Feingold, Murtha and others. They are being told to shut-up by party leaders. The party leaders plan is to sit on the sidelines until Janaury '09 when they plan to have the White House handed to them on a silver platter.

I would like to hear what you and others think about the Democratic strategy (or lack of one). I think it's a loser.

[jrdenn]

Approval ratings: George Bush 29% - Congress 11% - General Petraeus 68%
Now which one of those would you not want to attack!
I'm a guy who know's that Petraeus is lying and that MoveOn is right, but at the same time we cannot afford attacking him in this manner. Whether it be right or wrong he is the only person the public trusts.
For 2 weeks the MoveOn ad has dominated the headlines instead of the war itself. It has given the Republican's temporary cover from the shitstorm that is the Iraq war. The ad even went before Congress to vote on condemning it and like the cowards they are 22 Democrats actually voted to condemn it!
I wonder if Harry Reid will have a condemnation vote on Ann Coulter's next book or when a former soldier in Congress like Max Cleland is compared to Bin Laden or when John Kerry is swift boated. It's sad! We win the Senate and Harry Reid let's the Republican's pull this bullshit! And they wonder why they are sitting at 11% right now!
Joe is right, if we attack a man in uniform we will lose the votes from middle America that were coming our way. The Hagels and Warner's of the world. Even though Petraeus may in fact be the '07 version of Colin Powell we cannot attack him personally! The Dems need to grow a spine and attack the facts!

[MoNut]

MoveOn is doing what the Democrats should've been doing all along.

Being "PC" and treating these criminals like sensitive children isn't going to win sh!t.

Of course the Republicans were going to cry over an ad. It takes the focus off the country's cry over the criminal war.

The Dems should've let them cry. The Dems should've not even allowed the debate or it's ridiculous and worthless vote on the floor.

Once again, the Dems took the bait. Once again, the whiny criminal Repubs were allowed to form the debate.

Are the Dems that afraid of the truth that they fear to even mention it?

How about forming the debate around Blackwater, Sibel Edmonds, the infiltrated State Dep't., the Carlyle Group, the 190,000 black marketed weapons?

Do the Dems have short term memory issues? How about the MSM? Mr. Scarborough? BCCI money laundering ring a bell?

There's mold on the loaf and it's still spreading.

[starwheel]

MoveOn.org made the crucial error of thinking wingnuts would read past the headline and actually consider the facts.

Facts don't matter. Fictitious beliefs matter.

[Ranta]

So, we are told if we don't fight back we are weak. If we give them some of their own medicine, we are told that that kind of behavior won't get us anywhere.
I for one, would rather go down swinging than hovering in a corner like Reid and Pelosi.

By the way, someone remind those two models of ineptitude that they don't have to let bills even get to the floor like the Republicans did for six years.

[satorist]

"Just Plain Joe" was a half-wit congressman now turned witless commentator--sad evidence of the continuing debasement of both professions. He focuses on print ads and flag-burning (the Boy Scouts was his idea of a joke) because that is the limit of his limited cognitive ability. Just Plain Joke.

[wlgriffi]

"armadillious2002 (See profile | I'm a fan of armadillious2002)
Joe - we had some good teachers. You guys totally slimed John Kerry's stellar military record and it worked."

Joe like his cohorts have that motto: Don't do as I do. Do as I say. Republican lackeys like to dish it out but can't take it when they are on the receiving end. The Ad didn't do any more than call attention to the truth. Joe only recognizes RNC talking points.

[realitytrumpsbull]

My opinion is, the Iraq war amounts to nothing more than an elaborate and painful charade. I think our military is deliberately 'fighting' with one hand tied behind their backs, and
cashing in big on the entire enterprise. It's kind of 'in ya FACE' politics that Busherer and
company have been practicing for about the last 5-6 years, but with bullets and stuff.

So, prepare yourself for the next exciting
chapter in this neverending taxpayer-funded
soap opera, and more multi-bill­ion-dollar
'oopsies'.­..

[Bobzmcishl]

It was no surprise that Republicans reacted hysterically to the Moveon.org ad in the New York Times with the caption "General Petraeus or General Betray Us". What is baffling is the Democratic Party response. Twenty-four Democratic Senators voted with 49 Republican Senators to condemn Moveon.org for their ad. Yet again the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by going after a group that has been their biggest supporter in trying to get the U.S. out of Iraq. Obviously these Senator's did not bother to even read the ad, which took a skeptical position of General Petraeus testimony before Congress. Better to err on the side of skepticism that blindly accept facts as presented to the U.N. by another 4 star general which led to one of the most disasterous foreign policy decisions in U.S. history.

All American's need to be wary of uncritically accepting information coming out of sources controlled by the Bush White House. Bush is desparately trying to protect his legacy in history and will do just about anything to color what is really going on in Iraq today. We must be vigilant over the next 15 months until George W. Bush is out of office and can no longer do this country harm. Thank God for groups like Moveon.org which are trying to protect this country from further debacles like Iraq.

[clearspeak]

I almost ended my Moveon.org membership because of that stupid ad. It served up to the flag waving fringe the ammunition to attack. The point could have been made in the ad without all this controversy. But maybe that is what they wanted?? Seems as though they got lots of $$ because if it. Then, to add insult to injury, Congress condemns Moveon.org? What happened to freedom of speech? I don't remember Congress condemning the swift boat ads??
Even though I am a "liberal", I always appreciate your perspective, Joe! Miss your nightime show on MSNBC.