The MoveOn Dust-Up, the GOP's Self-Righteous Indignation, and Winning the White House
"How many times do we charge up the hill and run straight into enemy fire before we figure this shit out?"
I remember an angry Republican asking that question to no one in particular in a crowded GOP conference. The government was shut down, the public was testy and Bill Clinton was once again pounding a GOP Congress more interested in ideological purity than practical results.
This week's Moveon.org dust-up reminded me of that time when we Republicans led with our hearts and got pounded in our faces. We loved bathing in self-righteous indignation. Our base loved it too. But the practical results were always the same: we scared little children, household pets and crossover voters. It was a really great way to alienate the voters we needed the most.
Whoever dreamed up the ad questioning the loyalty of Iraq's top soldier would have fit in great with those of us who drove the political agenda in 1995 -- and guaranteed Bill Clinton's re-election in 1996. While I'm sure Move On's ad locked down the base in Manhattan and Madison, Democrats need to be more concerned with wooing voters in Tampa and Toledo.
I know this post will generate nasty emails. Every time I dare to tell Democrats how they can avoid the mistakes we Republicans made in the past, I am told to mind my own business. To those who are so offended, my apologies. Go ahead and spend the next year kicking around Generals and God. While you're at it, attack the Boy Scouts and burn a few flags for the hell of it.
You're right. Great election strategy. What was I thinking?
But for those who who actually want to win the White House in 2008, call your friends in liberal organizations and tell them to take a deep breath before they decide again to attack soldiers in a war zone.
Come on. This really shouldn't be that hard. The White House is the Democrats' to lose.
The president and his war are overwhelmingly unpopular.
The social issues that used to pull conservatives to the polls (guns, gays and God) are now so overshadowed by Mr. Bush's war that a pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-gay New York mayor is running away with the GOP primary.
Add in the fact that Republican senators are getting caught in bathroom stalls and whorehouses and one wonders what the Democrats could possibly do to give George Bush the upper hand with swing voters.
Oh yeah. They could attack a highly decorated general.
Ugh. It's deja vu all over again.
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Joe,
Thank you for your blog and where you are coming from on this. Unlike most Republicans you are being sincere and I agree with part of what you wrote. Gen. Petraeus needs to be held to account, and since he wrote his rosy Iraq scenario op-ed piece right before the 2004 election HE has entered the political fray. Move-On did absolutely the right thing; can you imagine if only Gen. Westmoreland had been held to account like this in 1967? How many soldiers may have been saved? Gen. Petraeus may be a highly decorated general, but sometimes generals are just plain wrong.
MoveOn simply called a spade a spade. Like famed General Colin Powell, who had a chance to change the world's outcome but instead lied to the UN about WMD & Iraq, Betrayus was Bush's newest military hand puppet- trotted out because nobody believes a word the the "commander in chief" says anymore.
While I agree the Democrats should borrow Larry Craig's colossal balls and bully these GOP bullies and whiners back, for the GOP to have created so many global nightmares, they have a lot of nerve whining about an organization that still uses their First Amendment rights.
The Bush administration is filled with dishonest, manipulative assholes, including this latest one bedecked in military ribbons.
Betrayus should have told the truth, gotten fired, then run for office as a truthful Republican.
Of course petraeus did not tell the truth. I will lie to save one life. War means killing and dieing not telling the truth.
He is an honorable liar, he must lie what else can he do, if telling the truth hurt the moral of our troops and help the enemy his duty is to lie.
We have been lied in every war we got into as were all of our enemies. We believed every lie we were told as did our enemies. Tell me something new
petraeus did not betray us the duty of a general is to lie in times of war. The truth is a recipe for defeat.
The only time Hirohito told the truth was when he surrender: " We are not superior to other nations, I am not a god"
When the war fever passes we will see that he lied he will probably admit it in his memoirs.
All's fair in love and war, right, Joe ?
Damn, Joe. You got all us bleeding hearts' panties in a wad! Look at all these comments! Anyway, it is always refreshing to see a conservative recognize that the Iraq war is a fiasco. Hopefully common sense will prevail over the rest of our differences and the next elections will give us a president and congress that will get us out of there and get our country back on track.
Joe my man your eyes are getting browner and browner. Your "dust up" ain't nothing when you are wrong we will say it, no Darth Vader BS your un American stuff is going to stop it. The blue print you lay out unfortunately is what our congress is following, there approach now is to just wait and let Bushman hang himself.
Couple of problems with your suggestion is that it first does not follow what WE (the people) told congress to do (70 percent) "Stop The War" get our kids out now. To be corrected in 08.
Second problem is our run rate now is right at a 100 American body bags a month. So every one should just shut up and let that continue on for 16 more months. I sure am glad we have someone like Move-On stand up and say this is wrong and you sir are cooking the books.
Sorry Joe the "Our General" does like his camera and is a political animal, the executive staff of the Army has not walked on water during this fiasco (Iraq) Abu prison, 150,000 weapons lost, murders of civilians, Iraq ammo allowed to be stolen, 4 years (3400 kids)now called bad decisons, etc, etc. Notice Joe, Generals Casey, Franks, Abizaid, Meyers, Pace, etc. etc have not been taken to task only "Our General".
The last General (General Eric Ken Shinseki) who stood tall got his legs cut off by shrubman. So Joe your logic makes since if you want o set down and let it run course, we won't its wrong and we will keep telling you and your buds its wrong.
I am a life long democrat and I will not begiving a dime to the democrats this year. I sent a $100.00 to Move On yesterday. They are speaking for me.
I think people who are playing politics to win elections are destined for ultimately sentencing themselves to playing a back-and-forth political game endlessly. This presidential election--only to play the middle and get defeated again in the next election--isn't what's important.
What's important is majorities waking up to the realizations that conservative ideology is at root immoral, authoritarian, hierarchical and basically constitutes a welfare-for-the-rich program. It is that in theory and now since its adherents have applied it in various ways since Reagan and have controlled all three branches for years, we have its results to observe in practice.
It's not about winning the next election only to see the pendulum swing again; it's about being honest, valuing honesty, promoting that value, and rationally embracing left/liberalism/progressivism generally as a people with honest moral values for the longterm.
"What's important is majorities waking up to the realizations that conservative ideology is at root immoral, authoritarian, hierarchical and basically constitutes a welfare-for-the-rich program."
As evidenced in the following link; http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com//Globalization/Ambitions_Empire_TBA.html", that ideology mixed with their version of capitalism (Fascism), wherein the corporations owned by the old 'Robber Barons' of the 1920's and 1930's control political careers, are in the end no different from any dictator regime. Religious regimes would have us believe in their religion only. Conservatives would have us believe in their beliefs and cultural values only, as specified by their politicians, with no allowance for the beliefs of others. Scarborough speaks what he knows; that it is all about winning, power. MoveOn is about speaking for the people first. The people's voice. Only Joe long ago ceased to recognize the people's voice, even when he sees it.
This administration believes that its lies and propaganda will go down more effectively with the intellectually lazy average american voter if it comes out of the mouth of a general. Case in point #1 was Colin Powell who was useful in getting us into Iraq and case in point #2 is David (walks on water)Petraeus who is useful for keeping us in Iraq for the foreseeable future and beyond. The dust up over the MoveOn ad is ludicrous. Because a man has served and been decorated in the past has no bearing on the fact that in the present he is acting as a stooge for a corrupt and immoral administration. Those shocked and disgusted by the play on words in the ad should grow up and look around at the mess....the real mess both in our country and in Iraq. Whether we achieve or fail in attaining the perverted goals of the Bushies does not matter. This country has already lost its soul. We all need to go into some kind of spiritual rehab if this is ever to be turned around.
"Case in point #1 was Colin Powell"
FOOL ME ONCE ...
I agree. I think the ad served to alienate moderates, which is where the fight is for votes.
"the ad served to alienate moderates" ???
... or perhaps wake them up?
Good post, Joe.
The far left should adopt the pledge that George Clooney made to Obama: Do anything asked of them to win the White House, even if that means shutting up and going underground until January 2009.
The fact remains, while Moveon and Kos may not have the kind of influence necessary to determine the outcome of a primary election, they sure have the kind that can lose a general election!
"... even if it means shutting up and going undergound until January 2009" - couldn't have said it better! I'm one of the 60% in the middle that think both extremes are barking lunatics. The Democratics need to break down this pall of fear and fog of ignorance that the Republicans have so effectively spread over the last six years. Ideology appears stupid when it is is wielded by someone as ineffective as W - he and his Congress should be attacked relentlessly until election day.
Your concern is touching but don't worry. Last year I switched from being a republican to an Independent.
I'm furious with the dem leadership over the Iraq war, the Moveon ad condemning and many other things.
But will I vote for the GOP?
It'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever vote for one of them again.
I think that the ad was absolutely right in its conception and in the case it made, however I thought the play on words was incendiary and distraced from the meat of the ad. It's like it was too cute to resist and I think that was a mistake.
If MoveOn had managed to restrain themselves from using what they thought was a clever turn of phrase, the argument would have been about the substance of the ad and on that, they couldn't lose except with those that are already Republican dead-enders.
Nice thesis, Joe. Unfortunately, considering how bright a fella you are, your post neglects to mention that General Petraeus, however decorated a soldier he may be and however great a commander he may be, is shilling for the very administration policy and the very President you've acknowledged is so unpopular.
As a vet, I was initially somewhat uncomfortable with the angle the MoveOn ad took; upon reflection, it was, simply...accurate. If Petraeus is a great commander, than that's what he should be doing. He should not waste one single moment shilling dubious statistics and painting misleading pictures on behalf of our current crop of crooks and liars. Bravo, MoveOn, and shame on you General. If you're going to stimulate conversation, Joe, at least premise the conversation on the issues, and stick to them.
Memo to Democrats: you control the Congress. That means you can decide what bills come to the floor for votes--and what don't. So why, in a week where Republicans blocked the restoration of habeas corpus, voting rights for DC and adequate rest time for our troops between deployments, did you allow Republicans the opportunity to score a cheap PR stunt by approving a resolution condemning a week-old newspaper ad by Moveon.org--on the same day Republicans once again voted to keep indefinitely continuing the Iraq war?!
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=235143
Had the general come with a negative report and said this (PNAC) occupation must end now he's ass would be swiftboated pretty darn quickly. Hypocrits.
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