The MoveOn Dust-Up, the GOP's Self-Righteous Indignation, and Winning the White House

"How many times do we charge up the hill and run straight into enemy fire before we figure this shit out?"

I remember an angry Republican asking that question to no one in particular in a crowded GOP conference. The government was shut down, the public was testy and Bill Clinton was once again pounding a GOP Congress more interested in ideological purity than practical results.

This week's Moveon.org dust-up reminded me of that time when we Republicans led with our hearts and got pounded in our faces. We loved bathing in self-righteous indignation. Our base loved it too. But the practical results were always the same: we scared little children, household pets and crossover voters. It was a really great way to alienate the voters we needed the most.

Whoever dreamed up the ad questioning the loyalty of Iraq's top soldier would have fit in great with those of us who drove the political agenda in 1995 -- and guaranteed Bill Clinton's re-election in 1996. While I'm sure Move On's ad locked down the base in Manhattan and Madison, Democrats need to be more concerned with wooing voters in Tampa and Toledo.

I know this post will generate nasty emails. Every time I dare to tell Democrats how they can avoid the mistakes we Republicans made in the past, I am told to mind my own business. To those who are so offended, my apologies. Go ahead and spend the next year kicking around Generals and God. While you're at it, attack the Boy Scouts and burn a few flags for the hell of it.

You're right. Great election strategy. What was I thinking?

But for those who who actually want to win the White House in 2008, call your friends in liberal organizations and tell them to take a deep breath before they decide again to attack soldiers in a war zone.

Come on. This really shouldn't be that hard. The White House is the Democrats' to lose.

The president and his war are overwhelmingly unpopular.

The social issues that used to pull conservatives to the polls (guns, gays and God) are now so overshadowed by Mr. Bush's war that a pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-gay New York mayor is running away with the GOP primary.

Add in the fact that Republican senators are getting caught in bathroom stalls and whorehouses and one wonders what the Democrats could possibly do to give George Bush the upper hand with swing voters.

Oh yeah. They could attack a highly decorated general.

Ugh. It's deja vu all over again.

Comments

[hmmmmmer]

Sorry Joe, but when Bush allowed the good General to be used for political purposes, and we all know he did, the General gave up any rights to complete respect. I hear move on took in over a million dollars in donations with just hat one ad. Tells me there is problems in GOP land, which really has become the land of delusion. It seems to be ok for the GOP to totally destroy Kerry and Clealand, yet it is off limits for turn around. Either way individuals were trashed, one way in the GOP land of illusion it is ok, the other way it is not. Give us all a break. Why are the 33% making the decisions while the 67% stand back and allow it to happen. Bush is history, and not a good one at that.

[totallynext]

Joe

I think you need to re watch your own "morning joe" broadcast. You did everything you could to disparage the individuals who support moveon almost as bad as Bill O'reilly does with the dailykos.

Newsflash - they are now the majority - It is a serious time for honesty answers and someone has to slap someone in the fact - to get this silly war done. If that means the General who is playing politics gets a little bit of sarcasm then so be it.

Also - I found it really rather curious that General Petreuas only breif the Republican cacuas at their little retreat in FEbruary just prior to the "surge". And do not conduct a "like" briefing to the Democratic MAJORITY or any of the committees. Why was that? Do you suppose because he is a POLITICIAN and not a general? Think about it.

And last I check the German Generals wore uniforms - I uniform is not an automatic get out of jail free card if you are a crook and or a questionable character. Hell even Napoleon wore a uniform.

[Marlyn]

Saddam wore a uniform.

[FogBelter]

Mr. Scarborough, as Keith Olbermann said on your network the other night, General Petraeus allowed himself to be politicized ... no one did it for him. Petraeus put himself in a position to be criticized and was. If we constantly retreat from the truth, who benefits? Certainly not America.

We have had good Generals and bad throughout our Nation's History ... we have had traitors in uniform, like Benedict Arnold, who early in his career was hailed for his qualities as an American General, only to let the politics of his position lead him astray. I'm not calling General Petraeus a "Benedict Arnold", but there is quite a lot of evidence supporting the case of him allowing himself to be put into a political box. As, Keith pointed out, Petraeus could have resigned rather than allow himself to be used by the White House ... he didn't.

Our nation is in a hideous state and the Left can't be blamed for it. If we love our country, why should we be silent? Bill O'Reilly has stated we are in a Culture War ... and I agree with him, but to listen to Republicans you would think a Culture War is only acceptable if the Right is the only side fielding an Army. Now that the Left is returning fire, it's not appropriate for there to be a Culture War ... I'm sorry, I love my country too much to be straightjacketed into that Catch 22.


You guys want a fight, now you have one. If we back down and play nice, as you advise, then like the sleezy ringside Manager of a Professional Wrestler, you guys will sneak into the ring while the referee is distracted and bash us across the head with a folding chair ... WE KNOW YOU GUYS ALREADY.

Thank you for your advice, Mr. Scarborough, but I think it is time for the Democrats to keep their own council.

[ajax2]

What makes the Democratic supporters of the Cornyn resolution so disgusting is that the resolution never debates the facts of the ad, but instead lies about it's content. I’ve asked my Sen. Feinstein to apologize for this one lie in the resolution.

"Whereas a recent attack through a full-page advertisement in the New York Times by the liberal activist group, Moveon.org, impugns the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces: Now, therefore, be it...'

The ad does no such thing. So Sen. Feinstein has attacked speech and joined in a Republican lie about other Dems.

[Imhotep]

Only half the Democratic Party is democratic. The rest, like Biden and his ilk, are Republican's. That is what is wrong with the Democrats, they're actually Republicans. Time to make some changes. Peace

[Marlyn]

YES I agree, 50% of Democratic Senators are Republican lite.

Joe Biden would choose Chuck Hagel as his running mate, as if that were a selling point to Democrats.

[acfryer]

I feel that the use of the ad was to frame the debate. Since the release of this ad the "mainstream media" has saturated the airwaves with its image. But if you read the whole article you will see the true debate. Since the begining of the "war" the republicans have been able to frame the debate, calling those who oppose the war and occupation "unamerican" and "treasonists". Well,by creating such a furor over the use of the term "betray us" the Republicans have step in it and allowed the people at MoveOn to create of frame the new debate, the lies told by a general turned into a political hack by a corrupt administration.

[humuhumunukunukuapuaa]

I sent MoveOn a $25 donation today. I am happy there are still people out there who refuse to bow to those who insist on scaring us into believing that dissent equals treason.

Aloha.

[Marlyn]

Me too. Aloha.

[FedupVotr]

Well Joe, the fact is that winning elections is not as important as preventing more people, including our soldiers, from dying.

True courage is stating the truth no mater the unitended consequences. The truth is that Petraus and the military cooked the books in order to postpone the inevitable and he did it at the cost of billions of US dollars and untold lives.

The problem with the media and pundits such as yourself is that instead of talking about how we are being "Powelled" onnce again (remember chemical labs and WMD's?) you are talking about the ad instead of the substance of the ad.

When will we ever learn that the truth always prevails and only truth will keep us free?

[catbird111]

This, from Illinois, rural area, farmland all around; not a skyscraper nor a subway within 500 miles. I donated for the first time to MoveOn.org after the BetrayUs ad. Petraeus IS betraying us. Bush is betraying us. The GOP and some dems are betraying us, and all of the above are betraying our soldiers by sending them into combat for what? Our American pride? (Pride needs to be earned, folks. Are we behaving in a way I am proud of? Not in any way!) For oil and bigger profits by the American oil and gas companies? Because Bush wants to run the clock out on his pathetical delusional "legacy?" Because no one seems to be able to control Dr StrangeCheney? I absolutely support our troops, and have lost a family member to Iraq. I support our troops a lot more than the twisted idealogues who cower righteously behind the troops while the troops take the bullets and the bombs. The author of the article is simply pulling a Rove, guys. Heads up. He is trying to fracture and splinter the dems. MoveOn "did good" on many, many levels, and in fact, raised a whole lot of money from the appearance of that ad, not from extremists pinko lefties in the big cities, but from non-lefties, conservative, Christian, middle-of-­the-roader­s, like me.

[Jjc2006]

Let's see if I get this right. You think Bill Clinton got elected because the republicans shut down the government and somehow that compares to a group of PRIVATE citizens pooling our money to let our voices be heard.

Sorry, Joe, the comparison simply does not work.

But if you want some comparisons. How about private citizens aka Swift Boaters who lied and libeled a Vietnam Vet? How about a bunch of republicans at your conventions mocking the Purple Heart? How about one of your senators, Chambliss, comparing a Vietnam hero and triple amputee, Max Cleland, to a terrorist? Now I found what those people did to be disgusting. And I thought any republicans with even an ounce of human decency would, on their own time, denounce those fools. But they didn't. But SUDDENLY, it's wrong to insult a military man? My how the right wing loves to change the rules as they go along. I guess that's why they love their "decider" leader. Seems that was his MO all his life..if he's losing he changes the rules and cheats. Sad thing is he gets away with it because the party he represents is all about greed and winning.

If you had half an ounce of decency Scarborough you would denounce that party now.
MoveOn.org was speaking TRUTH to power. That's the difference Mr. Scarborough. And I don't care if others thought it was rude. The truth often makes people uncomfortable so they label it rude.

Oh well.....t­oo bad, so sad.

[LiamR]

Joe,

Thanks for the advice. We Dems can use all the input we can get. Of course, we never really lose elections, we just wait every eight to twelve years for the Republicans to lose them.

Regarding MoveOn.org, I thought the General Betray Us ad was juvenile, but with the passage of that Senate resolution I made a resolution of my own. For the next 13 months, any political contributions I make will from now on go directly to MoveOn.org, starting with the online contribution I made today.

The Dems are so incredibly weak-kneed that I can't stomach sending them one more dime, or giving them one more second of my valuable time.

Of course, I'll be all ears if you have any more valuable insight to share with us Dems.

[kinderworld]

Joe-MoveOn never attacked the troops, the ad just questioned a General's report which probably was politically motivated and distorted. A General in the Army should never let himself be used for political purposes and General Petraeus put himself in the position he found himself in. MoveOn is not the Democratic Party and the Party does not control MoveOn. To blame the Democrats for what MoveOn does and to have Congress get involved in an ad by MoveOn is ludicrous, and it shows to what lows we have sunk, not to mention the waste of taxpayers' time and money. It is shameful that we are wasting time on an ad by a private organization, but the republicans need to create distraction because the reality they have created with this horrible and illegal war is too grim.

[Verum]

Seriously Joe, this is such a none issue out in the heartland. America wants our troops out of this civil war, regardless of who is offended. Joe I think you are hopelessly part of the Beltway.

[PADDYWHACK]

Joe is a moderate Republican and his show reflects this,I don't know what his view on Iraq is but Isuspect he's anti.The Dems are mostly hopeless,but some of them are trying.Ado­lf Bu$ch is in his bunker moving a delusional party around,and yellow Dems are voting on an ad which was insignificant,what country are we in when they voted with the GOP.WE NEED A THIRD PARTY!!!

[condieshoes]

Joe, I have to agree with you. I wish Moveon had not used the silly play on Patreaus betrayus. Just silly. But the facts are spot on.

The general is lying.