Basic Algebra: What Will the Verdict Be?

This:

Made me think of this:

Which made me think of this:

Or was it the other way around?

It adds up to the same thing.

Comments about whether to excuse or denounce are redundant --- but it brings to mind the summation of The Verdict from greats -- Mamet, Newman and Lumet:

Try them, and let a jury decide. We know ours is not a nation of cowards. What will our leaders do?

Comments

[beaupritchard]

Good use of a Newman outake ... Cheney is what I call a "true believer" ... a true believer believes what ever he does in service to the ideolgy that he has been taught is good. He never questions it ... he goes to the grave believing it. And when faced with incontravertable proof of the wrongness of it he will literally go blind before seeing it.

I've asked myself many times what is evil ... this is part of it.

[mero909]

Nothing will happen. I promise you, not one thing.

[Kilikazen]

News from AVVAZ.org today

This week, the US Senate is taking its tentative first steps towards establishing an independent commission into Bush’s War on Terror -- an open investigation into torture, detention, wiretapping and illegal transfers to secret prisons across the globe. This is a major development, but as expected there are very nervous and powerful interests who want to bury it.

Sign the petition -- which will be presented to the Senate Judiciary Committee before they make their decision this week -- and help get an inquiry with real teeth over the line:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/end_the_war_on_terror/97.php?cl_tta_sign=5bb59051913f30da04d6c15d6e5a291f

More information on the Commission of Inquiry:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-02-25-voa58.cfm

What Amnesty says about a Commission: Investigation, prosecution, remedy
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR51/151/2008/en

Some options for the Administration
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/weekinreview/22shane.html

More about the Senate Judiciary Committee
http://judiciary.senate.gov/

ABOUT AVAAZ
Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means "voice" in many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in Ottawa, London, Rio de Janeiro, New York, Buenos Aires, and Geneva. Call us at: [phone] or [phone]

[LB14]

how is waterboarding the mastermind of 9/11, GITMO, or anything else being mentioned "war crimes"? Some of you are being a little "loose" with the term "war crimes"

[Keith52]

Torture is illegal. Doing Illegal things even at times of war is a war crime. And they (Bush) lied about it. Hey, if it was legal, why lie?

[research]

Waterboarding is torture, no question.

Torture is the second worst war crime you can commit.

The worst War Crime you can commit,

Is to lie a country into war.

Why do you have trouble with this?

[bannorhill]

LBJ did it in Vietnam.

[Fareeha Rizvi]

Good choice of topic!

[KSMullins]

Verdict...you seek a verdict...but you seem to think that it's only a few. Sadly the verdict is against every one us. Our government is of, by and for the people. In our own frightened and wholly seflish desire to for unattainable security we "allowed" the Bush Administration to violate everything that once made us Americans.

The indictment is against us all. And so must the final verdict be as well.

[SpringDoc]

Well isn't that an easy write off. I don't buy it and won't accept it. I do agree that our representation in Washington failed this country horribly by not holding the bush administration accountable for the corruption and crimes by the federal government. Of course, not all are guilty. The Representatives that stood with Dennis Kucinich on Resolution 333 are to be celebrated for their bravery. Pelosi sold out, to get the Speaker position. She can redeem herself now by standing with Conyers in holding those reponsible for the crimes committed over the past 8 years. Will she stand with him all the way? This remains to be seen.

[GrahamInCanada]

Personally, I don't blame you all for Bush and Co., nor do I think you are all co-conspirators with Bush and Co., nor do I confuse America with Americans nor with the American Government and particularly not with particular Presidents.

The indictment is not against America, nor is it against Americans, what kind of reductionist kool aid is this?

But you might have an individual guilty mind behind this maudlin bastardization of citizenship by which you might personally hope to escape individual accounting?

[bbbear]

Thank you for your kind words. However your assessment of KSMullins may be off mark. I strongly suspect that many caring US citizens who rigorously opposed the ruthlessly lawless Bush years will always feel we should have done more. That is, without wallowing in guilt, we'll always be accountable for not, en mass, taken to the streets.

[Keith52]

Not me. I don't feel guilty. I didn't vote for him and I knew Iraq was a lie and was outspoken about it. I have no guilt. I now want Bush to pay for his crimes. That's how it works here.

[brooklyncitizen]

Queasy.

Our nation IS a nation of cowards. One of the Republican "leaders" is Rush Limbaugh.Obama's win is historic but as I watch his first days unfold this particular issue will take a back seat.

Why are escalating in Afghanistan otehr than that he mentioned it in his campaign??????

[Scoppertop]

OIL.

[jwb]

No oil in Afghanistan. Some natural gas, not much. No good way to get it out. Building a pipeline through the Khyber Pass and then to Karachi and building an LNG facility there would be extremely expensive. Securing these would be obscenely expensive.

[bbbear]

I can only hopefully suspect that Obama wants to negotiate with the Arab tribes who are often referred to as the Taliban. Those tribes, perhaps rightly so, have never recognized the border drawn by the British between Afghanistan and Pakistan... Yet maybe Obama understands he must do from a position of strength, hence the troop build up.

I seem to remember that, before we invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban were willing to turn bin Laden, et al, over to the Hague, but not to the USA, and Bush turned him down... IMHO, If Obama could somehow get that to happen, and bin Laden and his chief were tried in the world court, it would indicate that the US has returned to the rule of international law. We could then pull out of the ME and the Pakistani and Afghani tribes could live their lives according to their beliefs... That is, put yourself in their place. Foreigners occupying their lands will not cause them to change, but with the subtle pressure exerted by trading with more moderate Arabs , they too may eventually morph into a more liberal lifestyle..
In any event, we can no longer afford to be the self appointed Policemen of the World.

[dotmafia]

"In 2007 the Department of Defense received $161.8 billion dollars for the so-called global war on terrorism. According to the National Counter Terrorism Center in 2004 roughly 2,000 people were killed internationally due to supposed terrorist acts. Of that number, 70 were American.

Using this number as a general average, which is extremely generous, it is interesting to note that twice as many people die from peanut allergies per year than from terrorist acts.

Concurrently, the leading cause of death in America is coronary heart disease, killing roughly 450,000 each year. And in 2007 the governments allocation of funds for research on this issue was about $3 billion dollars.

This means that the U.S. Government, in 2007, spent 54 times the amount for preventing terrorism, than it spent for preventing a disease kills 6,600 times more people annually than terrorism does." ~ Zeitgeist Addendum

[dotmafia]

Notice how Cheney does not directly answer the question whether he authorized torture? He chooses his words carefully. He also doesn't call it torture. He calls it --

"I was aware of the program."

[aramos]

The verdict will be Not Guilty. Next!

[robertlockwoodmills]

I sent President Obama a polite letter on Inauguration Day. It congratulated him, and expressed the wish that lawbreakers in the Bush administration not be let off the hook. I added that his comments before being inaugurated didn't give me confidence that he considered it a priority to prosecute anyone.

I haven't received an answer to my letter. Not even a polite, "Thank you for your comments." I hope I'm wrong, but I'm sure Obama thinks that going after Bush & Co. would compromise the bi-partisanship he still hopes to achieve. It's true that Republicans would hate him for it, but they'll hate him, anyway. Besides, it's the right thing to do...as if that ever mattered to people in Washington, D.C.

[brandnewstuff]

Bush and Co

title 18 Chapter 96 Racketeering

Omibus Crime Control Act
USC title 42,3711

Fed Bribery Statute
Title 18 USC 201

Bank Bribery-- Firrea
USC215

Title XXV

Fed Wire Fraud Title 18

The USSG
section 1030

Now understand why everytime on You Tube ( Alberto Gonzales) abolished all title 18's as well as Constitutional Rules of Laws

DO THE MATH

YES WE CAN
YES WE CAN
YES WE CAN

AND PROSECUTE PROSECUTE PROSECUTE PROSECUTE PROSECUTE

[brandnewstuff]

www.huffingtonpost.com/john-conyers/larry-tribe-on-spying-a-g_b_13575.html

Rep John Conyers
Constitutional Lawyers Larry Tribe

Jan 10 2006

[dave1111]

FDR asked Congress for a declaration of War. Ergo WWII was legal. Bush waged war in Iraq without a Congressional declaration of war, ergo illegal. But if there was no war (Constitutionally speaking) there would be no war crime ? Loophole ?

[brandnewstuff]

www.huffingtonpost.com/john-conyers/larry-tribe-on-spying-a-g_b_13575.html

Constitutional Lawyer Larry Tribe
Rep. John Conyers
Jan 10,2006

prosecute they knew they did EVIL EVIL EVIL