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John Hawkins

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15 Things That Even Liberals Should Be Willing To Admit

Posted: 12/15/11 01:10 PM ET

Sometimes you have to wonder whether conservatives and liberals are just talking past each other. Do we really agree on more issues than we think? I decided to find out by putting together 15 statements, all of which are really nothing more than utterly unremarkable notations of the obvious. I am curious to see whether the liberals here at Huffington Post would be willing to admit in the comments that all of these statements are not only true, but fairly uncontroversial. Maybe we agree on more than we think.

15) That the Occupy Movement has broken more laws and been much more violent than the Tea Party Movement.

14) That If we can ask people to present an ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, or get on an airplane, then it's no great burden to ask people to present an ID if they're doing something as important as voting.

13) That increasing taxes, adding expensive regulations, and demonizing businesses hurt economic growth.

12) That for whatever flaws it may have, America has done more good for the world and is still doing more good for the world than any other nation in world history.

11) That opponents of abortion are primarily motivated by the fact that they think a child is being killed during an abortion and thus, they feel they're morally obligated to speak out.

10) That a machine is more likely to accurately count votes than human beings, who have a reason to try to slant the totals because of their political affiliation.

9) That Communism is an evil comparable to, if not worse than, Nazism.

8) That a lot, if not most, of the charges of "racism" that are thrown around in the political sphere are done so for the sake of politics, not because people actually believe there's any racism occurring.

7) That the life of a human being is more important than that of an animal.

6) That Fox leans to the right while ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and MSNBC lean to the left.

5) That Bush never had any intention of implementing a draft.

4) That Bush was right about the surge turning the tide in Iraq.

3) That conservative policies, mostly opposed by liberals, led to the collapse of the Soviet Union and American victory in the Cold War.

2) That the Left's opposition to drilling in ANWR and other places in the U.S. has driven up the cost of gas.

1) That at best, Barack Obama has been ineffective at turning around the economy and at worst, his policies have made it worse.

 

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ShowMeC6
Equal Justice, Not Social Justice....
04:52 AM on 12/28/2011
....WOW, I don't even know what to say!! I think I have found my FIRST HuffPo blogger I will fan and follow....WOW!! Bravo, Bravo!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tresco
Sistagirl Laughin' Thingy Award Winner!
12:21 PM on 12/16/2011
I'm amazed that this would even be put up on HP. This is going to jack up a lot of peoples' blood pressure.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Los Pepes
fearless bon vivant
06:09 PM on 12/15/2011
I was not aware that there ever was any consideration of bringing back the draft.

I'm not sure it would have been a bad Idea to bring it back after September 11.

"The Army went to war and America went to the mall."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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04:12 PM on 12/15/2011
Buying booze, driving a car, and flying to other countries are all privileges. Voting is a right. Privileges are conditional - it's the condition that makes it a privilege in the first place. Rights aren't.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RhymesWithRight
No, I don't get my news from Fox or Limbaugh.
09:41 AM on 12/16/2011
I would disagree with you about some of that.

Do you truly believe that we are prisoners in this country merely granted the privilege of leaving by a beneficent government? Shades of East Germany and North Korea!

You are presumably "pro-choice" on abortion, claiming it to be a right. Why doesn't "my body, my choice" apply to the consumption of alcohol as well?
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03:51 PM on 12/16/2011
Really? You have a right to enter other nations that you're not a citizen of? Where'd you get that?

~~

In my universe, entry into any foreign nation is a privilege that it's border guards can give, withhold, revoke, or make conditional at will.
01:32 PM on 12/18/2011
And exactly how do you know the person trying to vote HAS that right? Being in America is not the same as being American. Americans have the right to vote. Not tourists. So how do you protect the right to vote, if you don't verify that the person actually HAS that right? You, and all who think like you, are a fail.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jill Irish
O seclum insipiens et inficetum!
02:33 PM on 12/15/2011
We're talking past each other, my friend, because you apparently haven't stopped to talking/blogging long enough to HEAR anything or do any causal analysis. Let's go point by point, shall we?
15) Perhaps so - there are many more of them. They're younger. I'm not defending violence from any source but what's your point?
14) Buying alcohol, driving a car, and flying on a plane are voluntarily chosen luxuries, not basic rights and responsibilties of citizenship. And can you produce any real evidence for the so-called problem you want solved?
13) Are you seriously claiming that TOO MUCH regulation caused the economic meltdown we've had? Really? Too much of government and business bein' pals, yes. But too much regulation? We can't even prosecute obvious fraud!
12) Definition of terms needed, e.g. "good."
11) Yes, they do think that. Actually they feel it. Are they therefore superior people whose FEELINGS should be the basis of policy for everyone else, especially when they also oppose contraception, which actually WORKS to prevent abortions?
10) I work in software. You apparently do not.
9) SO?! What is your point?! We should maybe be OK with an analogue of Nazism?

Oh, forget it. If you honestly believe that these blurt-ations "are really nothing more than utterly unremarkable notations of the obvious," anyone attempting to actually debate with you is wasting his time.
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Tresco
Sistagirl Laughin' Thingy Award Winner!
12:28 PM on 12/16/2011
You're giving up? You don't even want to try. Your answer to #12 is quite amusing. It's clintonion. It depends on what the meaning of "good" is.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jill Irish
O seclum insipiens et inficetum!
01:32 PM on 12/16/2011
Gee, the definition of "good" has only been debated by philosophers for a couple thousand years! Let's hear yours!
04:30 PM on 12/17/2011
Are you seriously claiming that TOO MUCH regulation caused the economic meltdown we've had? Really?

If you follow the analytical chain to its conclusion, all of the exotic financial derivatives that are blamed for the subprime meltdown have one thing in common - if the underlying loans were good, the derivatives would have been good and none of this would have happened. Why were the underlying loans not good? Because Barney Frank et al. coerced lenders through regulatory and political shenanigans into lending money to those who could never repay it. TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT INTERFERNCE led directly to the current mess.
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Someone Out There
..................................................
02:32 PM on 12/15/2011
"That the life of a human being is more important than that of an animal."

What about the profits of a corporation?
04:32 PM on 12/17/2011
. . .what about the brightness of a star? Makes as much sense.
10:57 PM on 12/17/2011
The profits of a corporation are more important than that of an animal, too. See, if a corporation is turning a profit, then its employees and vendors are all able to feed, house and clothe themselves. If an animal has to be sacrificed to do that, well, we are at the top of the food chain you know.
Huffedit
Your micro-bio is empty
02:19 PM on 12/15/2011
15. Agree
14. Agree
13.Disagree, many of those major businesses have had the breaks to create jobs and have laid off workers. They have spent millions on lobbying. Now if you are talking small businesses, I agree. If a company gives out millions in bonuses and spends hundred of thousands and millions on lobbying, no they don't need a break.
12. No, I don't agree with forcing people to be the way we want them. Has our charties done great work yes, our government no.
11. Nope, they are too willing to allow females rights to be taken away. They are too willing to allow a child to go hungry and without medical care.
10. Machines run software that is written by humans.
09. It's all a matter of opinion, just like religion.
08. BS, it's all over and felt by everyone.
07. Maybe not. I think we have plenty of people that don't deserve the air they breath.
06. Nope. If you present the full facts how can any station be considered one sided.
05.Nope.
04. Nope.
03. Nope, define liberal please. My dictionary says liberals love freedom, fight for freedom, who wrote your dictionary?
02. False, I'm sure there are plenty of old republicans that do not want drilling in their backyard so to speak. The same as many democrats are for drilling.
01. His policies? Name one of his policies that made things worse.
jhNY
Mercy.
01:56 PM on 12/15/2011
Nope. The statements are slanted and contain conclusions I cannot support, except for #5.
01:53 PM on 12/15/2011
15 ) True, no matter how you try to frame it Occupy has broken, and in fact delights in breaking most of the laws. Now they look at it as a form of Civil disobedience, but still honestly...
14 ) Yes
13 ) True to a point
12 ) True
11 ) True
10 ) True, but only if the machine is honestly programmed ;-)
9 ) True, with caveats.
8 ) I hope that is true.
7 ) True with caveats.
6 ) True, News has always had political leanings and it is important to recognize that in forming objective opinions. What and how something is reported is as important as anything.
5 ) Duh...
4 ) True, but why go in in the first place?
3 ) more it was a Military Industrial race that brought them down as they over spent on Social ( which weighed them down ) and tried then to keep up on military.
2 ) True, but that is celebrated amongst most Liberal Circles...
1 ) Depends on your point of view and the fact that we cannot run different scenarios, we have what we have. He says that he staved off a depression, the problem is it is impossible to prove a null hypothesis.
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zimpeterw
A politically incorrect, contrarian ex zimbabwean
01:52 PM on 12/15/2011
Can't see that there is much to argue with in that list except maybe 7, I would choose my dog or my horses lives before some of the more despicable humans still around.
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muddywood
First the truth, then opinion.
03:28 PM on 12/18/2011
The statement about people vs animals should be thought of in this manner:

You are walking your dog and come upon a house that is on fire. Your dog runs inside. You hear a child calling for help. You only have time to save one and only one of them.
Which do you save? The child or your dog?
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zimpeterw
A politically incorrect, contrarian ex zimbabwean
06:09 PM on 12/18/2011
Good point, and in that scenario, I believe most people would try to save the child, as I certainly would. My original comment had the qualification .."before some of the more despicable humans still around". The question is of course hypothetical, but faced with that choice I would have no difficulty in choosing my dog or horse.