You have a First Amendment right to free speech. You do not, however, have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp. This is the problem with the Occupy protesters, well, besides the fact that most of them don't seem to know why they're protesting. They believe the law applies to everybody but them.
They scream at the police, threaten them, flick lit cigarettes at cops, deliberately back into police in riot gear, block traffic, refuse orders to move, and do everything humanly possible to bait the police. Then predictably, when they get what they've been begging for, whether it be a baton to the body or pepper spray to the face, they play the victim. It's like watching people run around in the middle of a busy freeway hoping to be hit by a car so they can claim their First Amendment rights were violated. When the cops go up against this sort of rambunctious mob that's doing everything possible to create a violent clash, your sympathies should always be with the police.
That brings us to UC Davis where the Occupy mob had set up tents and refused to take them down. Then they were asked to move by the police -- and they refused. At that point, they sat down and locked arms to keep the police from moving them. All of the protesters knew they were going to be hit with pepper spray and they could have simply gotten up and moved. It was actually safer for everyone involved, particularly the police, to spray the protesters first -- than to risk injuring them by trying to slowly pry them apart, while other protesters could get access to the officers' backs. Pepper spraying those protesters in the face was absolutely the right thing to do.
Again, the problem wasn't the police; it was that the protesters thought they should be allowed to break the law with impunity. They learned they were wrong about that. That's a good thing. When people break the law, the police need to be allowed to use as much force as necessary to get everything under control and it's too bad that these police officers, who did exactly the right thing, are being vilified by unethical people for the sake of politics. In actuality, cities across the country could learn a lot from UC Davis. Had the rest of the country forced the Occupy protesters to obey the law from the beginning, including using pepper spray where necessary, it undoubtedly would have led to a lot less vandalism, violence, and women being raped by Occupy protesters.
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You lost me at "you do not have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp."
I have a suggestion: only lead with something that shreds your credibility if you don't care what people think of you. Since you put your name on this piece I can only assume that you don't.
Since your analogy is flawed, let's compare it to him sitting in the way of police cars and babbling. In this case, I believe the UC would have no right to pepper spray and force him on the concrete.
Back in 2007, some UC Davis professors got together and succeeded in getting Lawrence Summers barred from speaking to the University Board of Regents. If Columbia University would let a murdering tyrant, killer of American soldiers and enemy of the United States like Ahmadinejad to speak at their campus then what on earth can you think of would be enough to take away the free speech rights of a former Secretary of Treasury of the Clinton Administration?
They should be allowed to sit in the way of police cars taking away their soap box, and they should not be pepper sprayed for it.
I myself would very much like to see this video you're mentioning, JC, even though I have absolutely no doubt that what you're saying, about the positioning of the police car in relation to the spoiled brats in question, is quite correct.
But I do have to add that I definitely don't think the particular motivation of the police, and even whether it ultimately was an at all entirely "valid" rationale of the police for telling the individuals to move or not *, was / is AT ALL in any way central to the very most basic issue involved, here.
The central and basic issue is that this is A NATION OF LAWS, and in this nation of laws we have legitimately legally empowered police officers, and if a legitimately empowered police officer, as happened here, tells a person to move, it's the person's legal obligation TO MOVE to where he's told to move, or take the consequences.
[Continued]
Such as : Getting attorneys to file complaints [with Civilian Review Boards, etc.] regarding the officers' conduct, or rationale for issuing the command[s] to the citizen[s].
And such things certainly can lead to sanctioning of the officers, if it's ultimately decided their actions were improper, or, in certain cases, it can lead to officers being fired from the police force, if the charges are serious enough, or even criminal charges being brought against the officer[s], in extremely serious cases.
But for a citizen or citizens, in real time, to knowingly and intentionally disregard a police officer's command to move, as CERTAINLY all indications are is EXACTLY what happened in this UC Davis case, simply because at the time the citizen[s] happened to be of the opinion "they shouldn't have to" [obey the police officer(s) command(s) ], and /or that they wished to provoke the police for the public relations value they thought "causing a scene" with the police might be for their political movement, etc., is what's known, pure and simple, as "anarchy".
And we're still a VERY long way away from THE GREAT MAJORITY of the American people being in any way interested in sanctioning anarchy, in this country.
The need for transparency at UC Berkeley has never been so clear. UC Berkeley, # 70 Forbes ranking, is not increasing enrollment. Birgeneau accepts $50,600 foreign students at the EXPENSE of displaced qualified instate Californians (If amortization of fixed assets funded by Californians are included in foreign and out of state tuition calculations they would pay more than $100,000+ and would NOT subsidize instate tuition)
UC Regent Chairwoman Lansing and President Yudof both agree to discriminate against Californians for the admission of foreigners. Birgeneau, Yudof, Lansing need to answer to Californians.
Opinions make a difference; email UC Board of Regents marsha.kelman@ucop.edu
Now that the head of the UC system has publicly condemned the pepper spraying of students at UC Davis, and the Chancellor of UC Davis back-pedaling on it, it's nice to know that you, and your infinite wisdom, stand alone in approving of these tactics. If you feel so strongly that the police acted correctly, you should schedule an appointment with the UC Chancellors to inform them of this, as they are about to be roasted in the courts of public opinion, and possibly sued in civil courts.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ." Benjamin Franklin
JC Hdz your posts are good
All the post in the world to the ones saying tthe Students are right will help as these posters know the Students refused to obey, refused to move. Botton line these Student are wrong and had they listened no pepper spay. But these Student do not listen to Authority that is their problem.