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John Hawkins

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The UC Davis Police Were Right to Pepper Spray the Occupy Protesters

Posted: 11/22/11 08:21 AM ET

You have a First Amendment right to free speech. You do not, however, have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp. This is the problem with the Occupy protesters, well, besides the fact that most of them don't seem to know why they're protesting. They believe the law applies to everybody but them.

They scream at the police, threaten them, flick lit cigarettes at cops, deliberately back into police in riot gear, block traffic, refuse orders to move, and do everything humanly possible to bait the police. Then predictably, when they get what they've been begging for, whether it be a baton to the body or pepper spray to the face, they play the victim. It's like watching people run around in the middle of a busy freeway hoping to be hit by a car so they can claim their First Amendment rights were violated. When the cops go up against this sort of rambunctious mob that's doing everything possible to create a violent clash, your sympathies should always be with the police.

That brings us to UC Davis where the Occupy mob had set up tents and refused to take them down. Then they were asked to move by the police -- and they refused. At that point, they sat down and locked arms to keep the police from moving them. All of the protesters knew they were going to be hit with pepper spray and they could have simply gotten up and moved. It was actually safer for everyone involved, particularly the police, to spray the protesters first -- than to risk injuring them by trying to slowly pry them apart, while other protesters could get access to the officers' backs. Pepper spraying those protesters in the face was absolutely the right thing to do.

Again, the problem wasn't the police; it was that the protesters thought they should be allowed to break the law with impunity. They learned they were wrong about that. That's a good thing. When people break the law, the police need to be allowed to use as much force as necessary to get everything under control and it's too bad that these police officers, who did exactly the right thing, are being vilified by unethical people for the sake of politics. In actuality, cities across the country could learn a lot from UC Davis. Had the rest of the country forced the Occupy protesters to obey the law from the beginning, including using pepper spray where necessary, it undoubtedly would have led to a lot less vandalism, violence, and women being raped by Occupy protesters.

 

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You have a First Amendment right to free speech. You do not, however, have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp. This is the problem with the Occupy protesters, well, besides the ...
You have a First Amendment right to free speech. You do not, however, have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp. This is the problem with the Occupy protesters, well, besides the ...
 
 
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04:17 PM on 11/26/2011
Bottom line: The officer revived a protest movement that had been starting to fade. He's OW's best friend.
12:54 PM on 11/24/2011
next course of action. You liberals don't like that though. Officers use force everyday one-on-one on resisting subjects in compliance with law, case law and departmental policy for as little as taking someone into custody for refusing to sign a traffic ticket. Obviously when you don't resist arrest, you don't get media coverage and you don't get on TV for your cause. The real tragedy here is that KATEHI should have let her police Chief explain what I just explained to the media, instead of perpetuating this "brutality" and "excessive force" myth. She should have stood up for her officers, university rules and the law. Thanks Mr. Hawkins for finally saying what needed to be said. Why don't the protestors protest the fact that their overpaid do-nothing chancellor got a $140,000 pay raise from 2009 to 2010. Katehi made over $382,000 a year in 2010. Of course she will bow down and throw down her police force, she will condemn them and place blame but she will not resign. She's not going to give up her hefty salary for any reason.
03:55 AM on 11/27/2011
You really ought to make sure you know what you're talking about. The UC Davis police violated their own rules about when to use pepper spray. The US Supreme Court says it's unconstitutional to use pepper spray on protesters exercising passive resistance.
12:54 PM on 11/24/2011
Let's put aside the free speech issue and look at the basic issue at hand. When you are under arrest, which these and other occupy protestors have been placed under for a number of reasons including trespassing, failure to disperse, failure to obey lawful orders (an order given when you are under arrest..) and resisting, obstructing or delaying peace officers, the police have the right to use "that force necessary to effect the arrest". Forget a group of protesters, but take an individual: An officer says "You are under arrest" and the subject he is attempting to arrest simply says "No, I am not". That officer is going to go "hands on" to take them into custody. When you resist, whether that is verbally or physically (even passively physical, IE: going limp, locking arms, refusing to comply, etc.) The officers can use force to effect the arrest. Now with all the options available (batons, pepper spray, tazer, bean bag bullet rounds, wooden bullets, punching, kicking) what is the most effective and would cause the least amount of injury to a crowd of resisting arrestees? Why is this concept so difficult to understand? The officers did nothing wrong. Would you rather have them beating them with batons or breaking their arms trying to pull them apart? There is no "progressive" use of force required, you use the least amount of force that will work and increase or decrease as needed. After verbal commands failed, the protestors dictated the officers
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kcwookie
Well behaved workers seldom prosper.
10:03 PM on 12/05/2011
You can explain it away all you wish, but the end result is a black eye for the cops and the country.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UCBAlum
I love not man less, but nature more
07:07 PM on 11/22/2011
I know a little something about the UC protests.

You lost me at "you do not have a First Amendment right to trespass or set up a hobo camp."

I have a suggestion: only lead with something that shreds your credibility if you don't care what people think of you. Since you put your name on this piece I can only assume that you don't.
12:40 AM on 11/23/2011
If David Horwitz came back to the UC Davis campus to speak and these students were blocking all access to his speech so that nobody could hear him then whose speech rights would you be protecting--the students' or David Horowitz'? You would be perfectly happy if David Horowitz or any conservative had his free speech rights abridged, so please spare the sanctimony.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UCBAlum
I love not man less, but nature more
01:14 AM on 11/23/2011
LOL on "speech rights". I didn't know the constitution protected everyone's right to "give a speech". LOL. I'll just leave it at that.
02:57 PM on 11/23/2011
I think Horowitz doesn't automatically deserve an auditorium to give his speech, but he certainly should have the right to stand on the grass and spout his views.

Since your analogy is flawed, let's compare it to him sitting in the way of police cars and babbling. In this case, I believe the UC would have no right to pepper spray and force him on the concrete.
12:49 AM on 11/23/2011
Another question for you, UCB...

Back in 2007, some UC Davis professors got together and succeeded in getting Lawrence Summers barred from speaking to the University Board of Regents. If Columbia University would let a murdering tyrant, killer of American soldiers and enemy of the United States like Ahmadinejad to speak at their campus then what on earth can you think of would be enough to take away the free speech rights of a former Secretary of Treasury of the Clinton Administration?
03:01 PM on 11/23/2011
No one automatically deserves the right to speak at a UC auditorium. But they should be allowed to assemble and announce their views.

They should be allowed to sit in the way of police cars taking away their soap box, and they should not be pepper sprayed for it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
decaf
06:57 PM on 11/22/2011
this is a good commentary that puts the movement in perspective. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-modine/occupy-movement_b_1107337.html
06:37 PM on 11/22/2011
It seems we have a right to protest, and long as we protest in a way that can be ignored. If a protest cannot be ignored, it will be crushed. Whether it is by pepper spray or property rights, or by media blitz or machine guns, the powerful will always crush the dis-empowered. "They were blocking a police car", "They were insanitary", "They were on private property", "The police must maintain order" ... there will always be a "reason" .. but the result will always be the same.
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batguano
As Long As Grass Grow, Wind Blow & The Sky Is Blue
05:53 PM on 11/22/2011
You may have a right to your own opinion but you don't have the right to your own facts, to make-up your own truth. I expect motive includes being the center of attention and enjoying all the vituperation heaped on your asinine positions, a path to recognition many who have less than stellar comments to make or see an opportunity to fill a niche for gain, like “African-American Republicans". What you bring to the table is a joke, an obscene vision of right and wrong; what was the quote from Macbeth about a tale full of sound and fury?
05:46 PM on 11/22/2011
Stories like this make you wonder why the obvious isn't being pointed out. The students were on a road and they were blocking a police car. They were purposefully in the way of police conducting official business, albeit business the protesters didn't care for. They asked for the pepper spray by their non-compliance. No sympathy is warranted. What is warranted is finding out the reasons the media is only telling you the WHAT (students were pepper sprayed) without telling you the WHY (students were blocking a police car from conducting police business).
05:54 PM on 11/22/2011
PS...if you go to Youtube and find a video shot from the backs of the seated protesters, you will plainly see a police car waiting for egress. Not sure if hyperlinks are allowed here.
11:14 PM on 11/22/2011
If you're asking if you can put up a direct link, on this site, to the YouTube video you're referencing, JC, my understanding at least is that you most certainly can ! [unless they've changed things here very recently, since the last time I've been here, which I very much doubt. I've definitely seen people put direct links, to YT videos, into their posts on this site, ALL THE TIME, in my visits here over the last 3 or 4 years or so.].

I myself would very much like to see this video you're mentioning, JC, even though I have absolutely no doubt that what you're saying, about the positioning of the police car in relation to the spoiled brats in question, is quite correct.

But I do have to add that I definitely don't think the particular motivation of the police, and even whether it ultimately was an at all entirely "valid" rationale of the police for telling the individuals to move or not *, was / is AT ALL in any way central to the very most basic issue involved, here.

The central and basic issue is that this is A NATION OF LAWS, and in this nation of laws we have legitimately legally empowered police officers, and if a legitimately empowered police officer, as happened here, tells a person to move, it's the person's legal obligation TO MOVE to where he's told to move, or take the consequences.

[Continued]
11:48 PM on 11/22/2011
If the officer[s] overstepped their legal bounds in issuing the command to the citizen[s] in question, then there of course are legal avenues in this society for pursuing that, after the fact.

Such as : Getting attorneys to file complaints [with Civilian Review Boards, etc.] regarding the officers' conduct, or rationale for issuing the command[s] to the citizen[s].

And such things certainly can lead to sanctioning of the officers, if it's ultimately decided their actions were improper, or, in certain cases, it can lead to officers being fired from the police force, if the charges are serious enough, or even criminal charges being brought against the officer[s], in extremely serious cases.

But for a citizen or citizens, in real time, to knowingly and intentionally disregard a police officer's command to move, as CERTAINLY all indications are is EXACTLY what happened in this UC Davis case, simply because at the time the citizen[s] happened to be of the opinion "they shouldn't have to" [obey the police officer(s) command(s) ], and /or that they wished to provoke the police for the public relations value they thought "causing a scene" with the police might be for their political movement, etc., is what's known, pure and simple, as "anarchy".

And we're still a VERY long way away from THE GREAT MAJORITY of the American people being in any way interested in sanctioning anarchy, in this country.
06:06 PM on 11/22/2011
The obvious is that they were on a road? Try again.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Moravecglobal
05:35 PM on 11/22/2011
UC davis campus police report to and take direction from campus chancellor. Fire UC Davis Chancellor and UC Berkeley Chancellor Birgeneau. In addition, Discrimination against Californians by University of California Berkeley Chancellor. Chancellor Robert J Birgeneau ($450,000 salary) displaces Californians qualified for public university education at Cal. for a $50,600 payment by a foreign student.

The need for transparency at UC Berkeley has never been so clear. UC Berkeley, # 70 Forbes ranking, is not increasing enrollment. Birgeneau accepts $50,600 foreign students at the EXPENSE of displaced qualified instate Californians (If amortization of fixed assets funded by Californians are included in foreign and out of state tuition calculations they would pay more than $100,000+ and would NOT subsidize instate tuition)

UC Regent Chairwoman Lansing and President Yudof both agree to discriminate against Californians for the admission of foreigners. Birgeneau, Yudof, Lansing need to answer to Californians.

Opinions make a difference; email UC Board of Regents marsha.kelman@ucop.edu
05:32 PM on 11/22/2011
The students wanted to be arrested, do you not get that? Civil disobedience involves breaking the law, however civil disobedience calls for civil measures, pepper spray is by no means a civil measure. According to Headwaters Forest Defense vs. County of Humboldt pepper spraying peaceful protesters is an excessive use of force and violates the protesters 4th amendment rights. The courts and the constitution would have to disagree with your point of view. The protesters did bait the cops, the cops in response should have arrested them, but instead they used excessive measures. Whatever happened to police officers being required to use the minimal amount of force possible? Just because they had their arms locked, doesn't mean that they couldn't be arrested. A few students had already been pried apart and arrested, and they weren't injured from the arrest. However out of the protesters sprayed 11 were treated on site, and two transported to the hospital. How is this "safer for everyone involved"? These students knew what they were fighting for, this atrocity only adds to their valor. They knew they were going to be pepper sprayed, yes, and because they didn't move, and held firm to their beliefs I respect and idolize them even more.
01:59 PM on 11/23/2011
Idolize them? Ariel, you need to set your bar just a tad higher. At the end of the day, this is a fine tactic that makes for feasting fodder video to the uninformed and polictically motivated. I've been OC'd twice in the last two weeks inadvertantly during physical conflicts by my co-workers. Unpleasant? Indeed. Atrocity??? My God, Ms. Rowe...it's a taco seasoning!!!! Have you ever accidently rubbed your eye while dining at Uno Mas? Congratulations...you've been OC'd. Ten minutes and a bottle of water later, these heroes of yours would have no lasting effect of what transpired. A broken arm incurred after a "I'm not giving up!" wrestling match with an officer?? There is a lasting memory. Any court case decided by California courts, by the way....Well, that's California...and as much as I love living here, this state becomes less and less of America by the decade.
08:39 PM on 11/23/2011
So your saying pepper spray is essentially a taco seasoning? Might as well say rubber bullets are essentially pencil erasers. A land mine is essentially a treasure hunt. Water boarding doesn't create lasting effects as you say, except for being traumatized from the experience. The pain that the protestors endured is a lasting effect, because they will never forget that experience. The students at UC Davis, as well as everyone in America expects the police to protect us, in a way we trust that the police will make the right call. When the police did what they did they betrayed that trust and made the protestors as well as many other Americans fear police power. Many of those protesters have come forward about how they no longer feel safe on their college campus, that is a lasting effect. The protestors expected that the police would respond to their civil disobedience in an appropriate manner, they did not. Who said that any of the students were taking part in an arm wrestling match? How do you know that they would fight with the officers, ending up with a broken arm?
08:40 PM on 11/23/2011
Many people in fact resist arrest and don't end up with broken arms. I think your response about California is absolutely ludicrous. Despite your opinion on California courts, the police officers operate under their jurisdiction and are required to follow the rules and precedents that are set forth. This article says the protestors expected for the law to not apply to them, which is false, in truth the police officers are the ones who expect the law and precedents to not apply to them.
05:24 PM on 11/22/2011
How bland do you have to make your comments around here without having them censored, I wonder? The students were blocking a police vehicle. The police asked them to move. The police made them understand that they would be pepper sprayed if they did not move. They stayed put and got pepper sprayed just like they knew they would. The protesters deserve absolutely no sympathy.
05:51 PM on 11/22/2011
You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you been to the UC Davis quad? My guess is no. See, I have. That is not a roadway. It is the paved section between a large grass area and the student union buildings. It is perhaps the most crowded area on campus, filled with students most of the time. The police vehicle was not blocked because the way out is to back out.
11:43 PM on 11/22/2011
Well, I've been to universities before. I know that if you live in the axis of evil that is the Berkeley-San Francisco communist corridor, you may not know that other campuses exist. Most universities make these inter-connection pavements wide enough for service or security vehicles to get through (what happens if one of the barbarians you care so much for drops over in the SU after dropping acid?) Ambulances and police vehicles are such vehicles that will use such ROAD. So, please, if there are students in the way they should move when the police tell them to. And if they are told they will be pepper sprayed for non-compliance then you tell me--what is the life of death reason that they would have for sitting in that spot, locking arms and risking a pepper spray in the face?
07:41 PM on 11/22/2011
And you deserve a ticket to Somalia......you must be a 1%er.
11:49 PM on 11/22/2011
1%er? Hm...I was raised by a single mother who ran a dog grooming shop and never made over $15,000 per year. I had a father who made not much more and most of his money was spoken for by his second family, i.e. he paid no child support. I also paid my own way through college. You deserve a ticket to anywhere that teaches you that there is a wide world outside of the bubble you live in.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
scotchleaf
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
05:00 PM on 11/22/2011
So they should quietly allow themselves to be consigned to "free speech" pens like at the GOP convention?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Anthony James Brooks
04:58 PM on 11/22/2011
You are extremely adept at making up excuses for the police & government John Hawkins. I see a bright future in politics for you.

Now that the head of the UC system has publicly condemned the pepper spraying of students at UC Davis, and the Chancellor of UC Davis back-pedaling on it, it's nice to know that you, and your infinite wisdom, stand alone in approving of these tactics. If you feel so strongly that the police acted correctly, you should schedule an appointment with the UC Chancellors to inform them of this, as they are about to be roasted in the courts of public opinion, and possibly sued in civil courts.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ." Benjamin Franklin
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Randolph Greer
I am a Poet .
04:49 PM on 11/22/2011
This author doesn't understand the First Amendment. A campus is a place that is always "occupied" by students and faculty and administrators. Every one who is registered to be there or employed there as freedom on movement and occupation anywhere on campus as long as they do two things. First, they must be non-violent and second, they must not block access to or egress from one place to another. They are not required to move from the spot they occupy if they are not blocking anyone. Te 11 students who were sprayed were not blocking anyting. They violated no law. The very presence of the campus police was not called for. End of story.
05:43 PM on 11/22/2011
They were blocking a police car. You need to acknowledge that fact, Mr. Poet. And then you need to find out why you have only been told that the students WERE pepper sprayed without the WHY being explained.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TJax123
Progressive - the alternative is unfathomable
10:59 PM on 11/22/2011
The police car was on a walkway not a roadway so exactly who was in the wrong. In addition, spraying the line once with pepper spray (maybe) but to empty the cannister walking back and forth is excessive.
07:47 PM on 11/22/2011
I go to Seattle, and the stores are all occupied, but you can navigate, and get in and get out.....that is an educated city.....now I'm in Denver, and everybody stands in the door, afraid to make an adult decision, and everybody loses...... a very UNEDUCATED city. #OccupyDenver is a sad site.... tsk, tsk .. Now, about your poetic comment. Throw in a "in my opinion"...it allows the sheep a chance to swallow their kool-aid ..mmmk?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Randolph Greer
I am a Poet .
10:55 PM on 11/22/2011
I notice that all you guys have only 0 , 1, or 2 fans.
04:25 PM on 11/22/2011
Trespass? Students in the middle of the day on the campus quad that functions as a place for student gatherings? Get your facts straight.
03:52 PM on 11/23/2011
It's not the students' land. Are you saying they have unlimited right to do as they please? The school no doubt has rules as far as living on campus--dormatory rules, etc. So you think that a student should be able to pitch a tent and stay there permanently to skirt the campus housing rules? That is really what you are talking about--if 'occupying' land that does not belong to you not tresspass then what is? Can I pitch a tent on your front lawn and stay there until I'm good and ready to leave? The students don't own a thing on the UC Davis campus. The only thing they purchased with their tuition money is the right to attend classes and reasonably assemble as it relates to those classes and class related activities. They do not have unlimited rights to do as they please, which in this case includes blocking police traffic.
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USABeachGirl
My Heart Belongs to Jesus without him I am nothing
04:45 AM on 11/24/2011
USABeachGirl

JC Hdz your posts are good

All the post in the world to the ones saying tthe Students are right will help as these posters know the Students refused to obey, refused to move. Botton line these Student are wrong and had they listened no pepper spay. But these Student do not listen to Authority that is their problem.