Faith, Not Race, The Big Factor in Prop 8 Vote

In the postmortem of the passage of California Prop 8 banning same sex marriage, there was much finger-pointing. How could this happen in California? Whose fault was it? Initially the blame came to lie at the feet of blacks for -- allegedly -- voting disproportionately in favor of the proposition.

And with that came a whole lot of haranguing. What? Blacks are bigots? How can they of all people not recognize that separate is not equal?

Now comes new evidence that blacks did not vote more disproportionately for Prop 8 than any other ethnic group. Political affiliation, ideology, age and most significantly frequency of religious service attendance were bigger factors in determining one's vote than race. Once tabulated as being as high as 70 percent, a new, more accurate post-vote survey finds the number closer to 57 percent.

And the study's coauthor, New York University assistant professor of politics Patrick Egan, notes that number has more to do with faith than race. It reflects a higher level of church attendance among black Americans. So, then, it would be more accurate to move black voters into the category of all voters who made their decision on Prop 8 based on faith and/or other influences rather than segregating blacks into a particular pro 8 block.

This really isn't news to anyone who tracked George Bush's increased support among black voters from about 8 percent in 2000 to about 12 percent 2004. It was largely behind the talk of a Constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage.

As a person of color it would be nice to see the number of Black Americans who stand against equality in marriage continue to trend downward. But at the same time it's unfair to unduly blame blacks for Prop 8's passage.

For more perspective, visit That Minority Thing.com

Comments

[AnotherTry]

Gays who are racial minorities must begin the difficult process of coming out of the closet. Until then, the "self-appointed white gay leadership' will continue to take the heat for the entire multi-racial gay community and that is just not fair. Our community is the only one that crosses all lines of race, religion, economic status, gender, age and intelligence. You name it, they're gay.

Coming out couldn't be more important that right now. Please don't let these ignorant people posting here scare you from living a full life.

We are here to support you, now more than ever.

[jerry23]

HuffPost's Pick

I agree that coming Out and staying Out puts a face on the issue. I also believe that if you Shake EVERY Family Tree hard enough that a few Gay Folks will fall OUT.

My Partner and I have been together for 38 Years. I am Uncle Jerry to his Nephews and Niece. I help carry both of his Parents Bodies to their Grave. I held his Mother's hand to comfort her while a 911 Call was made in her behalf. I was mentioned in both his parents obit. Love is risky for all of us . Am I Family?

My point is that we are Family. Maybe the plumbing is the same but the Love that has cultivate for more that 3 decades has dignity, compassion and endurance. So sit down with those f Gay family members and ask what they Dream about in a relationship and you would be surprise to know that many of us share the same Goals in life but some of us take the road less traveled. Some of us just have more Courage to accept who we are and move on and celebrate our Existence.

Another Day in Paradise?

[Nikola Tesla]

See Dr. Rev. Amos Brown, Martin Luther King, Jr. protege and Baptist minister, speak on this subject @ http://www.trifecta.tv/prop8/pod_casts/Rev.%20Amos%20Brown-iPhone.mov

[TERRYKEITH4]

Uh huh. See that's what I'm talking about. Here's a Black man shouted out loud for gay rights, and now his throat is sore. How many of you finger pointers have sore throats, huh?

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/GayTalk/2009/01/11/GayTalk-Weekly-Review-11-AMPST-347-237-5246-Open-Mico

[diogenes1967]

And if Proposition 8 is THE important civil rights issue of today then explain this:

1/2 of eligble California gay voters were unregistered
1/3 of registered gay voters in California did not vote

Now I don't know abt. the validity of these numbers but I have seen them in more than one place

I mean, were gay voters so turned off by Obama that they decided not to go to the polls? If you want rights, then you have to act like you want them. Those turnout numbers in LA and San Fran were PITIFUL.

[carsntrucks]

Yes, they were.

No one really mentions the roughly 50% turnout by SF gays about the Prop 8 issue.

[diogenes1967]

Just so my position is very, very clear on this, Huff, please post this!

I am a gay blk man and a non-California resident. Naturally, I am a No On 8 supporter. Yes I do think that homophobia in the black community is a problem and, based on my experience, homophobia is virulent in black communities than in white communities. I think that is based on religious belief.

I do find that to scapegoat black people for the failure of Propisition 8 is wrong. I don't even think that it was necessary racist, I think the divide is based on economic class, in the California case. But, ye, it was the N-word that came out of folks mouths. And I am one tired brotha out of all this.

[TERRYKEITH4]

Hey!
All you white gay folk here on this blog who're blaming the Black churches for the passage of prop 8, here's a link for you:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/GayTalk/2009/01/11/GayTalk-Weekly-Review-11-AMPST-347-237-5246-Open-Mic

This is a BLACK CHURCH in Dayton Ohio with a gay talk radio blog show. You can call in and talk to the moderator. You can even air your own blog radio gay show if you'd like. It's on right now and not one of you pouters has called in or gotten involved yet! phone: [phone]

Is there any White churches with this kind of web page for gays? You all need to quit coming here wearing your hoods and your sheets and come on out the closet. And don't wait until after dark to pile up in your cars to go and terrorize Black churches!
Quit asking for a hand out like you've told Blacks not to do, and get up and do something for yourselves. And stop trying to hitch a ride off our backs while you all have way more resources to help you than Blacks have!

[Tanyars5]

HuffPost's Pick

Terry, these people who posts these comments are intent on blaming black people and churches. It doesn't matter that the polls they sight have been discredited. They have a scapegoat and will keep it. I think there is a word for that type of thinking. They have spewed their hate for black people all over the internet and it has been seen by black people all over the country. 30 some states have banned gay marriage and gay initiatives were struck down all over the country this election. Don't worry the trend will continue until they catch a clue.

[AbbieXHoffman]

Blame is due toward ANYONE who votes against civil rights.

There is special IRONY to be pointed against those who have historically been denied civil rights and that includes WOMEN, AAs, certain religions and ANYONE else who has been denied civil rights in the past.

It's not r*cist, s*xist or religion*st or any other ist to point out this sad irony.

[digoweli]

In the middle of huge displacements around money and the abuse of interest, translate USURY, a capital offense in the bible and something Jesus made direct reference to with money changers and bankers with the Widows Mite, it seems strange that these sinners with their mortgages, hedge funds, ponzi schemes and credit cards would have the nerve to complain about sex. Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman who had an adulterous affair. He was quite tolerant on these issues but money was another issue as is the book of Leviticus which compares USURY to the bite of a snake and assigns capital punishment for it.

My how the bible has changed. Bankers are IN but sex is OUT. And the most OUT of all is homo-sexuality. But if money is so ruinous, as we are learning, shouldn't the Judeo-Christians return once more to the laws of their book and ban banks. Usury is not just excessive interest but in the original is anything above the principle at all. If it's wrong anyplace then you should reconsider the whole and look at all of your terminal sins and see if they be still terminal or even sins at all. But they won't because belief has nothing to do with logic or scholarship. It is simply self interest and a search for power.

[rabrophy]

Faith dose not equal narrow minded bigotry. Remember the bible was used to condone slavery and segregation.

[maush74]

Gay pple' should realize that pple' of color are not their enemy. Their enemy is whoever put prop 8 up for a vote.I agree that a majority should not vote for a minority issue. Trust me, if the issue of interracial marriage is put on the ballot today, many pple would vote to oppose it, including blacks. So thank God the courts ruled in it's favor back in the day. So blame whoever put it on the ballot.

[Tanyars5]

maush74...you are correct......

[FearlessFreep]

And blacks should realize gays aren't THEIR enemy.

[Nikola Tesla]

And black gays must recognize faith is the enemy.

[Jaradan]

Ask black gays how they feel about being a double minority. My black gay friends say they are discriminated against by other white gays, too. They are afraid to come out in black community because of homophobia and religion and are getting pushed to the back burner in white gay community.

[TERRYKEITH4]

Uh uh... We're not buying that. And all you're doing here is loosing points. I think next time I'll vote yes instead of no on prop 8 since you're already blaming, and accusing me of something I did not do. I'm Black so naturally I'm guilty.... Right?

[tomfl78]

gay marriage has been on the ballot 32 and the people have spoken 32 times if it passes on the 33 time good, if not deal with.

[Jimbo554]

Uh, we are dealing with it. You leave us no choice.

[joshuachayne]

The court's gave equal rights to women and African Americans and striked down the ban on inter-racial marriages-- all against the majority will of the people at that time.

States had voted for the ban on inter-racial marriage.

But it is part of the Court's role and the role of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution (Equal Rights and Protections) to protect vulnerable minority groups against the tyranny of the majority.

[Nikola Tesla]

The Courts will deal with it. Then YOU must deal with the outcome.

[Desuka]

I agree, The mobilization structure of the African american community isnt dissimilar to that of the evangelical community, almost exlusivly church based, the only difference is that Black churches generally support democrats while evangelical churches generally support Republicans. so it isnt surprising that African american generally have a higher church attendance than their white conterparts and since those who attend church more frequently generally vote against homosexual rights a skew for prop 8 isn't surprising. I would contend that if you took a random sampling of African american voters and non-voters about gay marriage their opinion would not diverge significantly from the rest of the white population. However as proposition 8 points out Black voters tend to be more homophobic then white voters but that is only from the mobilization structure of the black community

[Tanyars5]

Are you speaking of black churches in Cali or all black churches in the united states....prop 8 happened only in Cali.

[diogenes1967]

See, that's where I am at with this, I think a lot of this has to do with a severe disconnect between the gay communities and the black communities in California. Black people that live in different and more integrated communities would probably be inclined to think and vote differently. Or do all of the black people in California live in "the black community?"

Too, I am getting the impression that the black churches are more conservative in California they are in my homestate of Illinois. The "black church" is not monolithic either. I would suggest that maybe some people with the No On 8 campaign study about the black church and read the appropriate sociology and anthroplogy material on the subject. And then they would have a better knowledge of targeting sections of the black community. IMO, they have a lot of votes there if they do adequate preparation and outreach.

But, yeah, I do think that a lot of this is a California problem, in this instance.

[TERRYKEITH4]

Where do you get your figures from? The Black southern churches supported GWB after 911.

[rainbowrecruiter]

Do your homework. Civil unions are not equal to marriage. Marriage still has MANY more rights. Even the 18,000 same sex couples married in California do not have the same rights as everyone else.
APPALLING

[AbbieXHoffman]

IMO, this issue can be boiled down to one simple statement....

Either you see this as a civil rights issue or you don't.

If you do, then you likely see any opposition to gays right to marry as big*tted.
If you don't think it's a civil rights issue, then you will probably never understand why this should be legalized.

[Jaradan]

It's not that simple. It's not as black or white like as that. Maybe that's why you don't see how closed-minded you're being towards people who disagree with you on this issue. Taking that kind of "it's this or that" stance will not win any converts.

[kellydanver]

Religion should, in no way, be a part of any law basis. There is no political reason why homosexual couples should not have the same rights as heterosexual couples. Seperation of Church and State. These homosexual couples are not hurting anyone. WHY DO PEOPLE CARE. it is not any of their business.

[Jaradan]

If you believe there's a true separation of Church and State, then I ask you to pull out a dollar bill and take a look at that "In God we trust". Or recite the lines to the pledge of allegiance: "...one God, indivisible, with justice for all." Or read the wording of most of our foundational documents such as the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, etc. Or look into the Federal tax code to see how churches are tax exempt entities (tax exemption is aka government benefits).

God (and therefore, CHURCH) is all over those fundamentally American traditions.

[stljack]

I think any clergy that try to influence an election should be stripped of any not-for-profit status they may have. Secondly, what bonehead decided that it was better for the voting public to decide whether a certain group should have a certain right? The Constitution, whether state or federal, is supposed to protect the minority from the majority and should be changed through the courts.

[Jaradan]

It's also a Constitutional right for any person or group to introduce ballot measures for the community to vote on. If they get enough support, then it gets on the ballot. That goes both ways. Gays can do the same thing but they rarely exercise that right. But guess who does? Mormons.

Hopefully, this issue will be heard and decided in the U.S. Supreme Court, but that only ends that particular case. The issue won't necessarily die in the S.C. because other people can bring their cases in front of the S.C., too (if they decide to hear it) and the ruling can change.

[Tanyars5]

Why would a group want to focus so much attention to a problem that is less than 5% of its problem? When it comes to problem solving one would spend most of its time focusing on the issue causing the most havoc. The lack of effective leadership in the gay community is apparent. The "blame the blacks strategy" will keep this group floundering in its own hate. Its been over two months since the election and still there is not a coherent strategy from the gay leadership. All I see and hear is black people this black people that.......get it together. Polls about who did what to whom is counter productive. Focus your energy on solving problems not blaming.

[JohnJames]

Just give me a break. That's all I can say. We gays are confronted with hatred in every direction we turn, no matter what we do. Give us a break.

[maush74]

They will give you a break when your group stops lumping your problems on them. They have their own problems you know- like their sons being shot by cops on a weekly basis for no reason. You should go after the people who put prop 8 up for a vote, not other minorities

[maush74]

I agree. They are mad at blacks for prop 8 and they resent Obama coz of Waren. Barnie Frank has made it clear He willl be a headache for the PE because his feelings were hurt by Obama picking Waren.

[iwantpie]

PE Obama doesn't care what Barney Frank thinks of him. Didn't Barney Frank supported Hillary in the primaries, therefore, he has nothing to say to PE Obama.

[AbbieXHoffman]

It's not a "blame the black" strategy. It's a question of how can ANYONE denied civil rights vote against civil rights for another group? It's just horribly sad.

[maush74]

Because they don't see it as a civil rights issue. Many Americans don't see it as such also Don't you get it?

[SJBrown]

Are you saying that no "gay" person ever supported slavery or Jim Crow? Was never sexist or discriminated against a member of a minority group? Be real.

What about all the log cabin gay republicans? The republican platform states it values traditional marriage between a man and a woman and support state legal efforts like Prop 8 . Where is your outrage?

[KO4Pres]

The wording of Prop 8, IMO, was faulty making it difficult to know if a Yes vote meant No and vise versa.