Joe the Plumber Meets Sam the Gas Station Guy

A few days ago (which is to say, prior to the Wednesday night presidential debate), I met Sam. Joe the Plumber should really meet Sam, too.

I was jogging away on the treadmill at my local gym when the guy next to me--who turned out to be Sam--introduced himself. He seemed to want to talk, which was fine by me. He asked what I did. I told him. He immediately replied, "Oh, I've never met a professor before. I never went to college. Seriously, in my entire life I've never read a book all the way through. Please, Professor, don't make fun of me."

Of course I wouldn't. Besides, I found Sam's humility, curiosity, and affability endearing. As Sam talked, I became only more enthralled in what he had to say. He told me his life story. He grew up in Yonkers, New York and came out to California in his early twenties. At 22 he found himself working as an entry-level cashier at a gas station. Eventually he cobbled together loans and a payment schedule and bought the station.

Cut to the future: Now 38 years old, Sam owns more than 100 gas stations in southern California and 25 restaurant franchises. He has over 800 employees working for him. He has four kids in a happy marriage. He's a devout churchgoer. He's a proud American and lets you know that.

We started talking politics. "You know what," he said, "I'd really like some reporter to come and ask me my views on the election. Why don't they ever seek out guys like me? I got something to tell them. Professor, why isn't the LA Times or somebody asking me for my opinion?"

I probed a bit. "So what is it you want to say to them?"

Sam opened the verbal floodgates. "Hey, I've always voted Republican. For the first time in my life I'm going to vote for a Democrat. I'm voting for Obama."

"Why's that?"

"My gas station businesses are hurting. I make the same profit margin--5 to 8 cents per gallon--no matter whether the price of gas is $1.99 per gallon or $4.99. The big oil companies are the ones raking in the profits when prices go up, not me. I can make money on gas only through volume sales--and if people are hurting, I make less on gas. Or I start to lose money, like now. Where I make money, though, is when they come inside and buy discretionary items--food, drinks, lottery tickets. Right now, people aren't buying. I know 20 of my gas station colleagues are about to declare bankruptcy. It's bad."

"So I'm fed up with the Republicans. Tax cuts for the rich, the war--all that stuff. The middle class needs help. I'm finally convinced. I'm going for Obama. First time in my life, I tell you."

I asked him about paying higher taxes.

"I don't care about that. If I'm making money, I don't care. I'll pay my taxes. But I'm not going to make any money if the middle-class guy doesn't have money in his pocket to buy my gas or my food. I don't need the big tax cut right now. That's not going to bring the customers into my gas stations."

Joe versus Sam. You could line up economists spouting elegant theories for each side, but the basic arguments can probably be reduced to Joe's and Sam's respective positions on very gut levels. Joe's never made $250,000, but he feels that if he ever reaches that threshold, he shouldn't be "penalized" for his success. He seems to believe that cutting taxes for wealthy individuals somehow serves his current financial interests and his aspirations for the future. Sam's already lived those trickle-down and dream-up Republican talking points but now rejects them with hard-won conviction.

Were the two of them to meet and strike up a conversation, side by side on adjacent treadmills, I dare say that Sam would be giving Joe an earful, not the other way around.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Public Service Plug: It may be getting a little close to the wire in some places, but if you want information about requesting an absentee ballot in your area, check out the resources at Long Distance Voter.

Entertainment Plug: Yours truly appears as a talking head commentator in the documentary This American Gothic by filmmaker Sasha Waters Freyer. It will be screened at Echo Park Film Center tomorrow night (Oct. 17) in Los Angeles, at the We, The People Film Festival, starting at 7pm. If you're in the area, I hope to see you there!

Comments

[smurfslg]

If preventive health care was resonable for us to attain and if we all had access to preventive health care than thats less money it takes for us to live.It would lower sickness and chronic dieseases. The public as a whole will become more educated on how to take care of ourselves. We need access to preventive health care. Thats cheaper to provide universally and would lower health care insurance as we would all be less of a risk to insure because we all would have access to preventive health care.The gov't could work thourgh the REd Cross and County Hospitals to do this. They could provide corporations who donate a $1.50 tax break for every $1 dollar donated to the REd Cross and County Hospitals and other charities that work with the governmet to proved univeral preventive health care. f the go't put large amounts of money toward these measures the health care system would feel a tremendous less strain on it than as it does now.

Create jobs by focusing on the infrastructure of this country. Natural disaster destruction, failing bridges damns and levees, traffic jams, high tolls, bad rolls cause us all to loose money. From wasted gas while stuck in traffic to car repairs from pot holes.

Most Importantly of all we have to provide great education for every American.

LOVE YOUR FELLOW AMERICAN no matter if their your family friends neighbor or fellow stranger. We are all a stranger to someone.

[smurfslg]

Then for people who are facing foreclosure help them refinance loans to where they can afford to pay for their homes. Many people are losing homes for many reasons. Not only because they bought a home that was to expensive for them. Remember many people are losing jobs.Living Expenses and energy expenses are taking large chunks out of family budgets. Higher interest rates mean less money to live on. Many people live paycheck to paycheck. This is a fact not a fantasy. For those who can afford and who are in good standing give them some interest rate relief on their mortgages. Then once the stock market rebounds sell the financial stocks back to the public and take the profits and pay off some of the debt.

The new economy to get us out of this mess is ENERGy. If we could lower the cost of using electricity or if we could get around in a vehicle without paying for gas thats more money in our pockets to spend on consumer products to drive the economy than any tax cut could provide. Alternative energies offer this for us. We spend 700 billion a year on oil alone.lIVING EXPENSES are draining all of our pockets.

[smurfslg]

I think the government should go ahead and purchase 80% stakes in all of these financial firms and banks and hold the shares for two or three years. place new CEOs in the firms that were managed the worst with new qualified peoples. Then with the new monies these institutions receive from our investments they continue normal business with new regulations from the government while we are invested in them.

Then the government should take over all the foreclosed properties we own and raffle them off to the public with tickets priced no more than $100 dollars until the appraised value of the house is met. Like a lottery instead of winning a million dollars you have a chance to win a home as long as you can afford the property taxes.(THIS WILL GENERATE LOTS OF CASH PROFIT THAT CAN BE USED TO BETTER OUR COMMUNITIES AND LIFESTYLES) The government(local and national) maybe should go ahead and purchase all foreclosed properties that are up for auction as a matter of law and sell them off in this matter.

[4Detroit]

The problem with republicans is greed. They want to get all the wealth for themselves. They want to keep it in the family and among friends. If you are not in their click you are just sh it out of luck. The stu pid idiots can't rationalize that if we who are low and middle class don't have money to spend then they can't make money.

Let's see, I get it. You wealthy people want us to borrow from you so you can make money off of the interest and make money off of the product. Brilliant. I see why you are scared to de ath of losing. The way who gip people out of there money is in jeopardy. Sorry trikle down has just turned to trickled up economics.

[OldTC]

Greed...sure; but it's much deeper than that. This country is based upon many parts making up the whole.
There are federal, state and local courts, the interstate highway system, the federal parks and federal government and all of the media outlets that are licensed by "we the people". These layers of "Commons" create the opportunities that allow Americans to become wealthy. They have access to these opportunities through the "Commons" which belong to every American.
That is why when someone makes a fortune in America there is a greater responsibility to "we the people" to pay a greater share of that wealth in taxes (IE, Dues). So many have forgotten this reality, that is isn't even recognized by the neo-conservatives as worthy of consideration. Back in the days of Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party dismissed reality altogether, saying essentially: "We'll determine what is and is not reality."
So far the Voo-Doo econimics of Reagan have proven to be somewhat less reliable than the outside reality of a balanced budget.

[Bladernr1001]

And you guys talk about Glass-Stengall and deregualtion and all that. Don't forget that democrats supported all this legislation and more. Democrats were in control of the banking committees charged with overseeig such institutions as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Barney Frank, not Bush should be burned at the stake for his part in letting this fiasco unfold. So think about what you are about to do when you go to the polls in a few weeks. You are going to install dems with control of everything. When one party controls everything....disaster usually follows. I predict that if Obama gets elected he will not win a second term or the congress will revert back to republican control.

[marilyn1227]

OMG! I certainly hope that Obama gets to serve at least 2 terms. The Republicans have the economy so messed up, infrastructure is decaying, many are jobless and their unemployment has run out. It will take more than 4 years to even get a good start on the messes of the Bush Adminstration and the Republican controlled congress. Like it or not, the Republicans get the blame because of Bush and the deregulation of banks, etc. and the Iraq War!

[Artola]

What an outstanding story! I'd love for Sam the Gas Station Operator to have his voice heard because while his voice speaks for his personal prosperity, it speaks for mine and middle America has well. I'd love for this to hit the media!

[cacique88]

This post is one of the best I've read on HuffPo. In my own experience, I have met a number of Republicans here in Silicon valley who made their fortunes over the last 20 years who have decided to support Barack this go around. The reasons have more to do with the direction of the country than with their own calculation of tax liability. They point out that very few people at their income levels pay the amount of tax that the tax tables indicate. The number of loop holes and exemptions available to them allow for deductions that place them at lower levels than the typical IRS profile for a taxpayer in their bracket. They are more concerned with the state of the economy and US competitiveness. They feel that Barack will restore US respect around the world and will allow for a broader discussion of fair trade and equanimity than with the policies of Bush or McCain.

These Republicans recognize that the measure of US strength will be its ability to chart a new course for American economic strength in the 21st Century and not by pushing the "US sole superpower" Republican mantra that is rejected by the majority of countries around the world. The US will need to be relevant as a trading partner with Brazil, India, China, Chile, and other emerging economies that have a flourishing middle class and seek goods and services that have been elusive to them in the past.

[cdm 62]

Just now listening to CNN and listening to McCain blame Sen. Obama for the media attention that Joe the Plumber is getting. He made the insinuation that Obama personally sent the media to park in front of his home and harass him. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it "John" who placed Mr. Plumber squarely in the cross-hairs of the media? Wasn't it he who repeatedly used him to drive some vague and unsubstantiated point across during the debate? To imply that Obama is the cause for all the attention Joe is getting is typical of the hate and mischaracterizations so typical of the McCain campaign. He just shifted the blame for something he caused and the crowds just cheered. Politics a usual, I suppose. No wonder "average Joe" had difficulty making sense of it all when candidates like Mc Cain and Palin make it there number one strategy to muddy the waters.

[mssisyphus]

You are so right!

I watched the debate and when McCain blamed Obama for Joe's woes, I thought I had been transported into an alternate universe!! What he was saying and what he did were two entirely different things! That has been pretty much the game plan with McCain. I guess he does not realize that people actually watch and listen to what is being said.

[HalR]

Not only Sam, but Warren Buffet & Bill Gates father,have basically said the same thing concerning paying taxes. Check out Buffets discussion of his secretaries salary and his verses what each pays in income taxes. Also what about removing the cap on Soc.Sec. income to support the system & stop using it for a gov. ATM.

[Bladernr1001]

But to believe this you need to accept the premise that NOTHING the government does is wasteful or inneffective.

You can bet when Sam or Warren or Bill find something in their organizations that is not working or is wasting money it is eliminated. This never happens in the government. Regardless of how I much I ever earn or amass in wealth I do not want to pay one penny more in taxes until government adopts this mindset.

[smalltowntherapist]

'This never happens in the government' (eliminating waste). How do you know? That's just a stereotype. Sure there are abuses, but that's true in ANY organization. Believe me, I've seen plenty of waste and inefficiency (not to mention inhumane treatment of employees which just ends up costing more in the long run) in the private sector.

[110508]

Anymore, I now hope Obama does win in November. Then, I can watch him fall on his ass. You read it here first! During his whole term he'll just keep saying that W screwed things up so bad that he just can't fix it. Four years of failure after failure and excuse after excuse. Listen up dummies, with a majority in the house and senate and the white house in demo control, I DEMAND low interest rates, a high return on investments, free college education for my kids and what-the-hell, me, too! I want free health care that does not diminish one bit from the excellent care my self-purchased plan now provides. I want a fat raise, more vacation time and a guarantee I can't be fired. Hey, 'pie in the sky' is what you guys have been saying would be possible if not for all the mean republicans getting in the way. Here's your time to put up or shut the #%@* up! You've got four years, I'm waiting with baited breath for the GOOD TIMES TO ROLL!

[bowserbois]

Hey 110508....Kinda of like when bu$hie kept saying it was Bill Clinton's fault? Get a life, loser.

[cdm 62]

I hope Obama wins in November, too. The utopia you want obviously won't be possible, but maybe with Obama's rational, grounded ideas, we might have a chance of having "the people" be the priority instead of corporations and CFO's skimming all the money off the top so that there is nothing left to "trickle down." Deregulation sounds wonderful when presented as a way to have "smaller government" (as if THAT will put the power back in the hands of the people), but as we have seen most recently through the collapse of or financial system (how stable can an upside-down triangle be?) that "absolute power corrupts absolutely." Sure, we wouldn't need laws or regulation if people were ethical, but as we all know, it is usually the greedy that crave power.

[sjohnnie5]

rational, grounded? Who is going to pay for all his "grand" ideas? He sure isn't. Rezko isn't. Maybe the Saudis will continue to fund B.O., but B.O. and certainly NOT Michelle will not give up any of their "campaign" money to someone like me, a taxpayer. They've got their mansion in Kenwood, they take their two exotic vacations a year (and maybe more that we don't know about). I don't know about you, but I certainly can't afford two vacations on islands, can you? He keeps talking about rich people and pretending he isn't rich. What a joke. Where did he get the money to buy that first condo in Hyde Park? He was just out of law school and said he had student loans to pay off, but he put $200,000 DOWN on a condo. I didn't even have $20,000 to put down on my house. Trace the money back to his silent partners and find out what they want from him in return. McCain Palin 08

[PamperedHousecat]

What you're saying isn't feasible, but if it did happen you would probably say W had put it all in place before he left office, and Obama took credit unfairly.
And remember, it EIGHT years not FOUR, that W messed up.

[swkidder]

This piece is such a great example of "teaching by example." I've read so many articles on how "trickle down" doesn't work, has never worked, and will never work to create a robust, expanding economy. I believe. And then I read this article, and heard how Sam explains complex economic theory in terms of concrete, human experience with which anyone - regardless of their political affiliation and convictions - can connect.
Bravo - a really elegant and profoundly useful piece of work.

[ShirleyL]

Mr. Seery,

Wonderful article to reveal the views of another small business owner who can see far vision than McCain.

Be great if you can do a video of him and post it to YouTube. Called it something like "Joe the Plummer meets Sam the Small Business Owner" or something like that. Joe the Plummer needs to learn from others who truely owns a business and pay taxes.

[HappinessHacker]

The real story is the GOP's use of street shills to try to mold opinion, why doesn't the press look into it?
It's widespread and well known.

In Atlanta, the G.O.P. pays street shills to stage dramatic interchanges. Their slick similar story lines have the ring of Moonies from days gone by. Joe the Plumber looks and sounds just like them.

Their goals are always the same... discredit, distract, delay the opposition's good work.

The key is their goals and the fact that everything else is fabricated. Why doesn't someone look into it?

HappinessHacker.com - Atlanta

[sjohnnie5]

If it's widespread and well known, why did B.O. fall for it and slip up by telling the world the truth of what he intends--taking money from those who EARNED it and giving it to you guys who don't want to work for a living, and just have your hand out.

[MrCommonSense]

Food for thought: I strongly suspect that whoever becomes President there will be no tax cuts for anyone nor will there be all the promises made for one reason and one reason only....America is broke! There is no money for most of those promises! Everyone get ready for a tax increase and learn to live with it.

[JanP]

Bill gates earned (earns) a whole lot of money. Bill gates created a lot of work for a lot of people. Beside people who work for Microsoft, there are millions of people who make a living writing software using Microsoft products.

He (Microsoft) changed a lot of other professions. Look what happend to the profession (job) of secretary.

When Obama is through taking his "obscene" wealth and giving it to the homeless, what is he going to do for money? Well, after striping people of incentive to make more than $250,000 a year, he will make it $200,000, then $175,000.

It is inevitable. It is France today.

I lived in Israel int he 1970's. The GDP was about $2 billion a year and the tax rate was about 75% for those making more than starvation waves. It was a socialist economy.

When Bibi became Prime Minister, he dropped the tax rates. Capitalism flourished and the GDP is now somewhere around $160 billion and the per capita income is on the order of France and Italy.

Having the wealthy pay more towards defense and roads is OK. but that is now what OBAMA said. He wants to take money from the better off and hand it out to those who aren't. he wants a giant welfare state.

I don't even if I am a recipient of Obama's generosity with other people's money.

[metalpipe]

Wrong. Obama is not advocating distribution of wealth. He is looking for the fairest way to pull us out of the mess we are in (huge deficit, declining educational system, degrading infrastructure, badly structured military, inefficient govt structure, ailing Soc Sec program, etc.....). No one is for big taxes, but we must pay our bills.

Your such a big talker when it comes to the homeless receiving care? Have you ever been homeless? You will be soon if McCain and his lackies make it into the White House. Do you think they care a lick about the suffering in the world? They absolutely do not. It is kill or be killed for them. Is that what you represent?

You are quoting propanda garbage that you read distributed by the filth that is running the GOP today. Obama has never advocated anything except all of us having a fair shot at a comfortable and happy life. I don't remember welfare ever being a part of that.

[Bladernr1001]

Sounds like you are the one spouting the propoganda.

[Flyingace81]

How can you say Obama is not for redistribution of wealth. How do you give a tax cut to the bottom 40 % of Americans who have no tax liablility? There is only one way and it is to write them a check. Where does that money come from? People who actually pay taxes. The other 60 %. That sounds like redistribution of wealth. Either Obama is only giving 45 % of people a tax break or he is redistributing wealth you can't have it both ways.

[orchids8]

"Well, after stripping people of the incentive to make more than $250,000 a year..." I am laughing so hard I can barely type. I am self-employed, know many business people and I have never met one who lost the incentive to earn money due to tax rates. Some complain about taxes, often its a covert way of bragging about earnings without appearing totally vulgar. Tax rates have fluctuated throughout American history and its never slowed us down.

Your single cause argument is absurdly ridiculous as is any theory that claims one element unto itself will solve a complicated problem. Americans need to differentiate between their dreams and their reality. Don't worry about people with incomes over $250,000.00. When you get there, you'll find a good tax accountant and financial adviser, you may pay the same or a smaller percentage of your income as compared to your "regular Joe" rate.

Kudos to the Republicans, they've been pulling this hat trick for decades. While wages, adjusted for inflation, have flat-lined for a good decade as the middle class works harder then ever, taking every stock market crash in the 401K, going farther in debt to purchase a home, educate children, and pay basic expenses, yet, the top 5% are living bigger and more lavish lives. Meanwhile, the disparity in compensation between workers and top management has precipitously widened. I guess the most productive workers in the world just aren't working hard enough.