Joe the Plumber Meets Sam the Gas Station Guy

A few days ago (which is to say, prior to the Wednesday night presidential debate), I met Sam. Joe the Plumber should really meet Sam, too.

I was jogging away on the treadmill at my local gym when the guy next to me--who turned out to be Sam--introduced himself. He seemed to want to talk, which was fine by me. He asked what I did. I told him. He immediately replied, "Oh, I've never met a professor before. I never went to college. Seriously, in my entire life I've never read a book all the way through. Please, Professor, don't make fun of me."

Of course I wouldn't. Besides, I found Sam's humility, curiosity, and affability endearing. As Sam talked, I became only more enthralled in what he had to say. He told me his life story. He grew up in Yonkers, New York and came out to California in his early twenties. At 22 he found himself working as an entry-level cashier at a gas station. Eventually he cobbled together loans and a payment schedule and bought the station.

Cut to the future: Now 38 years old, Sam owns more than 100 gas stations in southern California and 25 restaurant franchises. He has over 800 employees working for him. He has four kids in a happy marriage. He's a devout churchgoer. He's a proud American and lets you know that.

We started talking politics. "You know what," he said, "I'd really like some reporter to come and ask me my views on the election. Why don't they ever seek out guys like me? I got something to tell them. Professor, why isn't the LA Times or somebody asking me for my opinion?"

I probed a bit. "So what is it you want to say to them?"

Sam opened the verbal floodgates. "Hey, I've always voted Republican. For the first time in my life I'm going to vote for a Democrat. I'm voting for Obama."

"Why's that?"

"My gas station businesses are hurting. I make the same profit margin--5 to 8 cents per gallon--no matter whether the price of gas is $1.99 per gallon or $4.99. The big oil companies are the ones raking in the profits when prices go up, not me. I can make money on gas only through volume sales--and if people are hurting, I make less on gas. Or I start to lose money, like now. Where I make money, though, is when they come inside and buy discretionary items--food, drinks, lottery tickets. Right now, people aren't buying. I know 20 of my gas station colleagues are about to declare bankruptcy. It's bad."

"So I'm fed up with the Republicans. Tax cuts for the rich, the war--all that stuff. The middle class needs help. I'm finally convinced. I'm going for Obama. First time in my life, I tell you."

I asked him about paying higher taxes.

"I don't care about that. If I'm making money, I don't care. I'll pay my taxes. But I'm not going to make any money if the middle-class guy doesn't have money in his pocket to buy my gas or my food. I don't need the big tax cut right now. That's not going to bring the customers into my gas stations."

Joe versus Sam. You could line up economists spouting elegant theories for each side, but the basic arguments can probably be reduced to Joe's and Sam's respective positions on very gut levels. Joe's never made $250,000, but he feels that if he ever reaches that threshold, he shouldn't be "penalized" for his success. He seems to believe that cutting taxes for wealthy individuals somehow serves his current financial interests and his aspirations for the future. Sam's already lived those trickle-down and dream-up Republican talking points but now rejects them with hard-won conviction.

Were the two of them to meet and strike up a conversation, side by side on adjacent treadmills, I dare say that Sam would be giving Joe an earful, not the other way around.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Public Service Plug: It may be getting a little close to the wire in some places, but if you want information about requesting an absentee ballot in your area, check out the resources at Long Distance Voter.

Entertainment Plug: Yours truly appears as a talking head commentator in the documentary This American Gothic by filmmaker Sasha Waters Freyer. It will be screened at Echo Park Film Center tomorrow night (Oct. 17) in Los Angeles, at the We, The People Film Festival, starting at 7pm. If you're in the area, I hope to see you there!

Comments

[saladd]

I urge you to send the story of Sam the Gas Station Man to Obama. He needs a good grassroots story to counter Joe the Plumber, who clearly doesn't get it when it comes to what this country needs, socialism vs. good, sound economic policy in the face of the shattering downfall of Wall Street and the unregulated free market economy. Plus I'm sick of hearing about Joe the Plumber who doesn't want to pay more taxes if his business makes profits of over $250,000. Give me a break. The top 5% in this country has been reaping the profits and rewards, including tax loopholes, tax breaks and subsidies for long enough. It's time the middle class got some breaks.

[Howfardoesitgo]

Someone making $250,000 can afford to pay another $7,500. That argument might make some sense if the person at $250,000 was only paying 5 times the amount of a person making $50,000 but it is not close to true. The person making $50,000 is only paying 15% ($7,500) while the person making $250,000 is already paying 33% ($82,500) so he/she is already paying 11 times the tax of a person making $50,000. Obama want to hit that person with another $7,500. No thanks.

Not to mention, if you think the Junior Senator who has never (never) voted for a tax decrease is going to suddenly change and keep this promise, you are really too dumb to vote.

[smartgrl]

First of all your reasoning is incorrect. Secondly, Joe the Plumber is a fake who already owes taxes and was a plant by McBush. Wow, I should trust an old guy who is willing to leave us with Miss Alaska if he dies just to win an election. AND, I ask again, why are her children not in school?
Starting thinking with reason not like a neocon. I have made over $300,000 and agree with the reasoning of Sam.
I am also a graduate of Wharton Business School.

[Timekeeper10]

Sam is rich and he pays unskilled people minimum wage. Joe is a plumber or apprentice plumer. If he were to become a succesful business owner, he would have to pay skilled laborers (plumbers) much more than minimum wage. Hve you hired a plumber lately? They don't put their hands in doo doo for cheap.

[chelliza]

33%? Hardly. My cousins owns a business and with all the deductions they have because of it, they pay only about 12%. If a business has taxable income of $250,000, they gross quite a bit more than that. McCain keeps throwing around Warren Buffit's name, but Buffit says income taxex are favorable to the rich. He is the richest man in the country and he pays only 14% while his secretary pays almost 30%.

[smartgrl]

Well said, thank you.

[dudelette]

How disingenuous of you. Someone making $250,000 can afford to pay a higher percentage of their wages. Someone making $50,000 has a much higher percentage of their wages going to the necessities of life. Cutting into someone's luxury spending is acceptable. Cutting into someone's survival spending is not.

[Alaskan4alaska]

At fifty grand you'd have around $850 a week after paying your taxes. At two hundred fifty grand you'd have to scrape by on $3,200 a week after taxes. Let me think........ Okay, I'll do it!
I have a 155 IQ, I work far harder than most CEO's and am at the top of my working class game and am getting nowhere.
Should we abandon the American Way and go back to the european model where you are born, live and die in abject poverty OR you are born into the landed gentry, serve in the House of Lords and after a long and useless life, die with more wealth than you were born with? Don't forget to pass it along tax free to the next generation of useless parasites.

[Howfardoesitgo]

you're right. Let's change the tax rate to be even more variable. I suggest:

(gross salary of all people - government costs)/( individual salary)

That way we all make the same and everybody is happy regardless of how hard they work.

[Timekeeper10]

Respectfully, use your 155 IQ and figure out why your geting nowhere and correct it. don't wait for your ship to come in. build your own ship. It is how the wealthy got that way.

[Badger51]

You are forgetting that the 33% tax rate is a marginal tax rate...that is, each dollar above the threshold is taxed at 33%. Taxes are cumulative, it's not true that all income in that tax bracket is taxed at 33%.

Moreover, Obama's tax proposal would simply return the top marginal tax rate to the level under the Clinton administration...a period of considerable economic growth.

[Timekeeper10]

the taxes did not cause the growth.

[harveyr2]

Sure. I'd pay higher taxes too ... if I trusted the government to spend it wisely. But, regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans are in control they will not spend our tax dollars wisely.

They NEVER have and they NEVER will.

Large government breeds fraud, abuse, and give-aways to special interest groups. If you don't agree with me then explain why the tax code is over 16,000 pages in length.

[chelliza]

So, we'll just let them keep borrowing until we go bankrupt?

[dudelette]

The tax code is that big to include all the loopholes the rich use to not pay taxes.

We've had supposedly smaller and smaller government for decades now, but things have only gotten worse.

What works? Medicare. It has a lower overhead than any private insurance company. It cannot deny claims that meet its standards. It cannot dump members that cost it more money than it wants to pay.

Social Security. Unlike an IRA or 401(k), it does not suffer at the whim of the market. It is not broken; it works just fine.

Police, fire, emergency services. They work.

A lot of government run programs work very well. However, they don't work if there are no taxes to support them. Our infrastructures are crumbling, literally. Maintenance is necessary and must be paid for.

[mari2JJ]

Amazing that anyone who makes money in our FREE country objects to paying taxes. I heard a Politician who said he liked a flat tax with no deductions so there is equity. If you decide to have 12 kids, why should I support your decision to have lots of kids by giving you more tax breaks than I get when I decided to have only 4 kids? So tell me, how would you like a flat tax on any money you make. Now that is a fair way to tax.

[websmith]

When you raise taxes on businesses, businesses raise their prices to cover the tax and then you pay when you call a plumber, go to the gas station, take your family out to eat, go to the movies, go to the doctor, or anything else. You pay. Joe doesn't own a business yet and he doesn't know that. If Obama had told Joe that he was just moving things around for appearances sake, he might have obtained Joe's vote.

What Sam doesn't realize is that his businesses are suffering because Obama and crew support amnesty for millions of illegal aliens who take jobs from the poor. They also are trying to get the number of H-1B visas drastically increased for cheap foreign workers who take jobs from the middle class. The democrats have also opposed E-verify which gives employers a way to verify citizenship status. They also, according to Pelosi, "delivered" when it came time to pass the bank bailout. With all of this wealth stripped from the poor and middle class, of course Sam's businesses are going to suffer.

http://ewebsmith.com/self/StandUp.html

[Badger51]

I was recently reminded that during the 1950s, the marginal tax rate was over 90%. Yet the 1950s were a period of tremendous economic growth for the US. In addition, due to the growing strength of the union movement in the post-war period, median income was growing rapidly in this period, truly establishing a "middle class" in America.

Today, the situation is far different. The benefits of economic growth are increasing being distributed to the upper income brackets, the CEO's, etc and median income, the income for the middle bracket of our population, is stagnant or falling.

The current income inequality has been masked by the prevalence of credit, via credit card debt or home equity loans. In recent years, the growing use of credit by Americans has propped up the economy, even as median income stagnates or falls.

We need a real economic stimulus plan that goes beyond rate cuts. We need to put more money into the hands of the average American and the average American family who will spend that money. I

In addition, we need longer term changes in public policy, such as the Employee Free Choice Act, which will work to make it easier for workers to form and join union, thereby increasing the bargaining leverage for working people, and thus, increasing their share of national income.

That way, Joe the Plumber doesn't need to dream about being a small business owner, he can earn a living income through his work !

[Bladernr1001]

I have seen several posts that cite the high tax brackets of the 1950's. I will have to look up how that all laid out through the population of tax payers at the time. But I do one thing. Taxes today take a much larger percentage of everyones earnings than they did in 1950. You have to look at all taxes federal all the way down to your local sales tax.

So as to how to put more money in people's pokets you have to look at reducing the overall tax burden. You are all trying to convince us that high tax rates boost economic growth but I have not seen one post that actually can explain in logical terms how that would work or does work (ie: how does taking more of my money in taxes make me richer or more able to invest).

Most corps make about a 5-8% net profit. There is not much room there for them to increase everyones pay the way you guys are looking at it. And redistribution of wealth has actually caused several countries (entire countries) to collapse.

[TRYKER]

Well, the redistribution of wealth UP to the richest AWAY from the poor and middle class has actually caused this country to collapse. Nobody complained about that redistribution.
So, redistribute it DOWN to those who truly need it, and quit crying for Mr. Gotrocks and know full well that he will take care of his own, he always does.

[cheapslut]

As an unforgiving and vindictive cheap slut, I would like to suggest that it is high time for all true Americans to hunt down each and every executive who has been given multi-million dollar compensation for laying off thousands of employees, who has sold us out by exporting jobs, and who has siphoned millions of dollars in ridiculous raises and perks, such as the recent AIG party.
We can argue about Joe and Sam all day long, but The Rixter had one humongously important word in his message: loopholes. As a nation, we need to close each and every loophole that enables the weaqlthy to keep the ill-gotten gains they have made off of the backs of hard-working Americans, as well as the ill-gotten gains that they have made through overseas slave labor by leaving this country under the false pretence of expensive labor, when all they really want to do is screw American workers and keep ALL the money for theirselves. Oh,one more thing: When we find all those executives, and their money, we need to throw them a Boston Tea Party that no one will ever forget!!!

[bennybeaver]

I agree with this whole heartly, we should take them all to the town square, and while we are at it, take a good look at Barney Frank and Kris Dodd. ( Barney Frank's boyfriend was in management for Fannie Mae)
We have been sold down the river by all of our politicans.
To quote the Queen from Alice in Wonderland " Off with their heads"

[Timekeeper10]

The actual numbers of these CEO bastard types who receive rediculous packages is very small. Many many fine companies do not have this culture of excess and will never be in financial trouble because the folks running them are driven by the succes of the company, not enriching themselves. Good to Great is a very good book that outlines quality run businesses in this country.

[Badger51]

I was recently reminded that during the 1950s, a period of tremendous economic growth in our country, the marginal tax rate was over 90%. Clearly, that was not a disincentive for business to invest, as the record on economic growth speaks for itself.

At the same time, due to the growing strength of the union movement in the post war period, that economic growth was shared widely by the growing middle class.

There are a number of economists who have concluded that the rise in income inequality was a triggering phenomenon in the Great Depression of 1929. If more and more people can afford to buy only less and less, the economy grinds to a halt.

Clearly, our recent economy has mirrored that feature of the 1920s economy, the benefits of economic growth and wealth is disproportionately going to the upper 5 or 10% of the population, leaving real wages, adjusted for inflation, flat or declining.

The availability of credit, either credit cards or home equity loans, has masked that decline in real wages as people continued to buy things on credit, but the bills have come due.

We need a broad based economic stimulus to add to the purchasing power of the average consumer, along with other public policy measures, such as the Employee Free Choice Act, to increase the power of working Americans, that will work to reverse the decline in the median wages in this countyr.

[thegirlnextdoor]

Best arguement I've heard for trickle up economics! Nicely done.

[SteveDenver]

A friend sent me the link to this article and asked, "Why is everything Middle Class?"
If you want to see what a country looks like that has no middle class -- no ladder from working class to affluence -- look at Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, all over the Middle East, where a handful of people control the lion's share of a country's wealth.

Trickle down economics is another way of pissing on the poor.

[bennybeaver]

Didn't Micheal Moore use Cuba's medical care system as the standard that we should meet in his movie?

[Transcendentobserver]

Excellent question! In reflecting on the ideal of a democratic society, how does one define the "middle class" as presumably contradistinguished from a "lower" class or classes? In Great Britain, one assumes that the 'upper class" is the peerage, but whom does it reference in America; in India the "lower classes" include the "untouchables". But in this country what groupings do our politicians exclude when they apply the term or criticize opponents whose policy statements they claim ignore that misty demographi­c?......sk­illed or unslkilled tradesmen and/or workers?... out of work persons?..., successful business persons?..­..professi­onals?....­business executives??? Definitions please!!!

[Carrie-On]

Absolutely - please notice that the "lower class" has never been mentioned by either candidate. As an Independent, I listen for just such clues and thus far, the lower class doesn't exist in America. In fact, everyone also owns (or did) a 401K. Such idiocy coming from the mouths of people who want to be president of this country is unforgivable. The hard truth in our country right now is that the majority of households are earning below the Federal Poverty Level - so Obama's hope of not taxing those who earn $250K or less, isn't far-fetched; he can't, without revamping the IRC!

Rhetoric will get us no where. Look at us now. The far-right were hell bent for election to bring in bush #43, to preserve democracy "around the world" but . . . we have lost democracy in America in less than 60-days. America is now a socialist country, which is fine, but how ironic that the "best laid plans" of Rove and Bush, and the far-right were so wrong.

Tell us, Obama and McBlame: What number Americans call to 1) stay in their threatened­-foreclose­d homes; 2) avoid their heat being turned off next month; 3) find a job that will pay above minimum wage; 4) where to go for food; 5) where to take their Mom in an emergency when she is sick and can't take care of the kids or work another shift. Those are the things we want to hear now for the $850B.

[Timekeeper10]

Respectfully, Carri-on, I don't think it is accurate that the majority of people are below the povery level. I think it is much lower. The weatlhy are the smallest percentage, followed by the poor and the biggest chunck would be the middle class. Guess which group are the richest. Senior Citizens, thats right Senior citizens. Mostly because they have worked and saved and are sitting on nest eggs. the rest of us are not there yet. Lucky them.

[smoore2614]

This is one of the most brilliant articles that I have read. Thank you for pointing out the fatal flaw of the trickle down economics idiology. I wish this man was interviewed by the national media. Great work! Keith Obermann or Rachel Maddow needs to interview this man.

[momoko]

Nice article, I always say even if you have to pay 90% on the extra dollar you earn, why won't you. Who won't want to be richer because they need to pay more tax!

It is only fair. I be more than happy to make a quarter million even if I have to pay 10% more.

[cjinx]

I find Republicans commenting on Liberal blogs quite amusing.

[antimilano]

What makes this a liberalblog? The ability of some posters to rationally discuss issues?

I am aregistered Republican in Florida.

[bennybeaver]

How do you know if everone is a Rebulican, I have been a registered Independant since 1970, I have voted for, Gerry Brown, Ralf Nader, George Anderson and Jesse Jackson. I would have voted for Eugene McCarthy but I was to young. I have never voted for a mian stream canidate ever..

[bennybeaver]

Boy that was some bad spelling.
The point I was making is I have liberal down. Been a screaming liberal since 1967, what I find disturbing is the way the term has changed over the years. And how easy it is to make everyone angry.

[cengizfromoc]

Gerry Brown and Ralf Nader? Are they related to Jerry Brown and Ralph Nader? Is mian stream related to mainstream?

If you can't spell, you have no credibility. It indicates that you are not well read.

[Wendie33]

This is a great article. Thank you for talking to Sam. He illistrates the point I have been trying to make to my republican friends for weeks now. And just like Joe, they don't even make $250,000 a year and certaintely never will if people can't afford what they are selling.

[bennybeaver]

I have found reading the posts quite amusing.
This is the war on poverty and the great society all over again.
Been here before.

[cjinx]

This is one of the best articles I've read yet. I'm a single mom trying to take care of my kids on minimum wage. I take care of people like John McCain (the elderly)! I find it sad that "wealthy" people can send millions of dollars overseas to take care the poor, but don't want to help lift up the people that made them rich right here in America! What does that say about their character!

[bennybeaver]

I was and am a single mother of 3 teenagers, and working. (minimum wage) I decided that was not good enough for me, so I decided to change it. I put myself through college while working and raising my children.
I do have student loans, trust me I have to pay back $10,000 in loans.

[cjinx]

I too aspire for more. Plan to go to school next year to become a Trauma RN. But its hard to work a full-time job and go to nursing school at the same time. I did it for a semester when I became a CNA. It would be nice if we could get a nice tax break & a break on college tuition, so that we can reach "our" American dream.