Here's a letter I got in this weekend:
Good day John. I'd like to say I'm really ecstatic that I came across your blog.
I'm a lesbian (a dyke, butch, a girl who looks like a man) and I'm a born-again Christian. I was an active worker of the church, back home in my country (Philippines), where my dad was a pastor. I was in a worship team. And I really find joy in serving our Lord Jesus Christ -- singing praises to Him, feeling His presence and being filled with the Holy Spirit. I see people being blessed by what I do for God's glory. But I sometimes wonder what they would they if they knew I am a homosexual -- which I think is pretty obvious, because you would never see me being girly, wearing a dress, putting on a make-up, and doing all those "how-a-Christian-girl-should act" things. I was always true to myself, but not so truthful that I'd stand up in front of the congregation and confess "Hey! brothers and sisters, I am gay and love Jesus!" I dream of doing that though, of letting the people know or the church know, who and what I really am. To somehow let them know that as a Christian homosexual, God can still fill me with His spirit. But you think I should really do that? Not that I would do it if you'd say yes. I'm just curious.
It was not long ago when I started asking myself, is homosexuality, being gay or lesbian, not okay? A sin? An abomination? That it is a given, once you're gay, that you just go straight to hell? Doesn't matter if you love Jesus, doesn't matter if you serve Him. You are a homo and it is a sin, so it's either you repent and be straight, or continue your homosexual acts and burn to hell! It scares me, John. The idea of changing myself because it is the right thing to do -- it is what they say what God wants me to do -- is scary. It's like giving up my life. My whole life. And I've been like this since grade school. Though I know that's what serving God is all about. Right? About surrendering your all to Him.
Every year, we have our youth camp, and last 2006, during our Holy Spirit Baptism, I had this incredible experience with the Holy Spirit, that I thought I would never feel because of the fact that I'm gay. After that night, I felt so blessed, that I felt something had changed in me. That I was lesbian no more! But I still did not wear a dress though. A month after that encounter, though, I got involved with a girl. We go to the same church, and were both active in our ministry, so we kept this of course from everyone. My relationship with her lasted about three years. She broke up with me because, you know, our love was WRONG. So I was devastated and depressed.
And that's when my journey began of seeking the truth about homosexuals. Do you think I am seeking for more knowledge about God and homosexuals just because I just want to justify my sin?! Or am I doing this because there is really is something about homosexuals that the world should know about? -- that the Christian world should know about? Was it God who lead me to your blog??? Because I never actually thought that there would be a fellow straight Christian who is not against homosexuality. And as I scan through your Facebook page I found more Christians who are not against homosexuality. And that gave me hope. Hope that I can be myself.
I honestly don't wanna think anymore about whether or not being gay is a sin. I just wanna live and be myself and serve God. But there are circumstances that require me to find out more about the whole thing. My mom has these books about homosexuality: how to come out of it, how to pray for your homosexual daughter/son. And there's this website she always visits, I can't remember the site or the speaker's name. But it teaches that there is hope for gays and lesbians to be straight. And it hurts me. And confuses me at some point. If God did not want me to be this way, I should have just been straight in the first place. Why would God create gays and lesbians? Or did He really create us to be this way? And If He did made us this way, is it just to prove that there is hope for change for people like us??
I don't get it. It does not make sense. It's a torture, for me, as a Christian gay, to feel this way. Because I really don't think that it was my choice to like girls. What can I do? I never dream of having a man by my side. Just like a straight guy who would never dream of having a guy as his partner for life. I think it's the same thing. You are straight, do you ever dream of having a man by your side? Am I even making sense here? Forgive me. My heart is bursting in tears. I am actually heart broken again right now. So I asked God, am I really not allowed, am I really forbidden, to love someone?? God said whatever our heart desires, ask and He will give it. And my one true desire is to love and be loved. And that who I am and love would be okay for my family and the family of the person I love. My desire is to be free and have no one judge me.
Thank you for taking time to read this John. I have so many questions and running across your blog made me think, maybe this is God's answer.
God bless you,
Unknown
Oh, Lord. When is this caustic, toxic, hateful, homophobic bullshit Christians do going to stop already?
Look at this girl. Look at her love. Look at her desperate yearning to do nothing more than love and be loved.
She wants to love, be loved, and know that God doesn't hate her. That's it. That's her heart's desire. That's what she needs. Same as any other person (of faith) in the world.
And there's Christianity, which is supposed to be founded on the unconditional love of God, breaking and tearing apart her heart. Shredding her sense of worth. Devastating her confidence. Ruining her relationships.
Destroying her life.
And still she loves Christ. This girl is so deeply wedded to the very heart and soul of Jesus that despite 2,000 years worth of ignorant and poisonous institutionalized Christianity being leveled against her and everything she knows about herself, still she clings to God, still she loves Jesus, still she seeks reconciliation between herself and the God who calls all to his side.
Phenomenal.
And there's her poor mother reading books on how to "heal" her, and praying that God will fix her.
And her crime? The thing that makes her anathema to the faith that she champions, that she continues to love despite its condemnation of her?
She dreams of having a woman by her side instead of a man.
And so Christians, hating the way she loves, do everything they can to make her hate herself.
And see its effect! Look where she's at now. Looks what's happened to her. Her letter drips grief and confusion.
The moment I read her letter I answered her back this:
It's OK that you're gay. God loves you no less for that. Some PEOPLE decided to translate their fear of gays into biblical texts, but those are translation errors, not reality. And then SOME Christians decided to believe in that translation, not because they were listening to God (who invites EVERYONE to come to him/her), but because they were listening to their own craziness.
I pray she hears that.
Are you out there, girl? Hear that! God doesn't care if you're gay. God made you gay. God likes you being gay. God likes girls; you like girls; I like girls; everyone likes girls. It's perfectly OK for you to be perfectly lesbian.
The only people who don't like homosexuals just because they're homosexuals are dented in the heart. Something awful happened to them. They (very often) were inculcated with a version of Christianity that sickens God. Someone gave them the awful anti-gay virus, and they sneeze and spit that nastiness onto others, because they just don't know any better.
But you do. You know better. You hear God telling you that he loves you as he created you. You know your church is wrong. You know your mother (God bless her loving heart) is wrong. You know the love you can feel for a woman is every bit as strong and pure and right as the love any person ever feels for another.
All you have to do is accept with your mind what your heart already knows. That's it. Just accept it.
As to a few of your specific questions:
No, I don't think you're under any moral obligation to come out to your church, or to anyone else you don't want to. Who you are and how you love is nobody's business but yours.
No, I don't think you are seeking for more knowledge about God and homosexuals because you want to justify your sin. I think you're doing it because deep inside you know that being homosexual isn't a sin, and you're seeking (and deserve) confirmation of that.
No, I don't ever dream of being with a man in the way I am my wife.
And finally -- and again and again and again and again: No, you don't go straight to hell for being a lesbian. That anyone is automatically condemned to hell just for being gay or lesbian is absolute, 100 percent medieval bullshit that you can with great relief and joy toss out like the fetid old garbage that it is.
You love. What could be less of a sin than loving? Loving is what humans are supposed to do. When you love, as God made you to love, God wins. You win. I win. Even your church (though they may not yet realize it) wins.
God is love. Period. End of story, forever and ever.
So love! And love even those who would condemn you for that love. For (as someone once said) they know not what they do.
(This woman's letter has moved me to do a book of first-person LGBT Christian testimonials. You can read about this project at my post "Gay Christians: Tell Evangelicals Your Story.")
Follow John Shore on Twitter: www.twitter.com/johnshore
No matter how much of historical writing has been destroyed by the prudes, enough writings have survived to make it plain enough..
But in any event I am glad some one at least made a attempt to respond in some small way.
May peace follow you in all the days of your life.
I just couldn't fit a response in that thread. It was too long and convoluted.
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It's never going to stop, until everyone decides that the Bible is not a good guide to an ethical, moral life, taken at face value.
Just read the comments here. Most of those who are disagreeing with you are not personally bigoted against homosexuals. Rather, they're serious about their submission to who they think God is, and what they think God has said in the Bible.
The Bible is NOT a book about some God's unconditional love. The love of the biblical God is not unconditional. The Bible, clearly discusses Jehovah/Jesus' wrath and judgment just as much as his love.
The Bible, in other words, is full of the human shadow in its condemnation of humans in so many ways.
So, despite your earlier comment that the Christian war against homosexuality is over, the truth is it is not over at all. It can't be over until Christians let go of their ideas about inerrancy.
Archimedes said, "Give me a lever long enough, and a fulcrum strong enough, and I'll move the world".
You want to move the (Christian) world, John? Then you need a stronger lever than the one you've been trying to use - the one that questions which version of the Bible is truer. All the versions are filled with shadow as well as light, condemnation and rejection as well as acceptance and love.
You say you disagree with me on several points, but from your response it sounds like you don't disagree with me much at all.
Could you elaborate on your disagreements in some simple 1, 2, 3 format - so I can understand what our disagreements might be? You can put them under my original comment, so we have more room for a dialogue.
-My thoughts of disagreement were more of how you said what you said then the idea of the thought. I know this sounds odd but - as a deist I believe in a nameless deity but not this man made machine that carry's it. Yes I agree with the idea of what your saying. I just thought that with the story of this poor girl at hand and the bloggers insightful way of helping this poor lady outta her deli ma of faith.... That I needed to... I hate to say this.... be kind and thoughtful of both their feelings. There it is. I am sorry. I thought more care needed to be taken for john and the girl. Please believe me I wanted to bash about on this translation issue and its heavy weight of "reality". I did later below. But up here I didn't. I hope I have not offended. I just didn't want to attack them directly. I hope this is what your looking for. LOL I feel sure you will let me know. Peace.
Too bad the discussion degenerated into dry-as-dust biblical arguments.
My your God bless you in all the days of your life.
After reading through the posts it was quite apparent to me that atheists (like myself) and modern christian thinkers feel it is a personal thing and we have no right to judge or condemn anyone for the way they live their lives, unlike fundamental christians who keep referring to a 2,000 year old book as if it holds all the answers as to how we live.
How audacious for one set of people to look down upon an others way of life. So for me anyway, the 'dry as dust biblical arguments' brought out just where people stand and once again we see that the fundamental christian feels he/she is somehow superior and has the capacity to dictate to how others should live their lives, How shallow.
And if you disagree?
Bring it on ;)
I am a confirmed member of the United Methodist Church, where we have homosexual clergy. We love everyone as they are and accept them as God's Children exactly as God has made them. We accept this truth, homosexuality is not a choice and it is not against God. God loves each exactly as they are made, which is in His loving image.
My grandfather is a transsexual and she now lives happily with her girlfriend in a loving lesbian relationship. I see no reason to believe that God would not like them to live as one in Him by way of marriage, either in ideology or in scripture.
"Honor thy Father and Mother" is one of the Ten Commandments given to us from God through Moses. When you punish a child for disobedience it is not the same as denying a human being the right to live as God has made them. Doing such is to act as God Himself by judging His creation.
So, in a way, by denying homosexuals human rights you are saying that your wisdom is greater than God's. I don't think you do, but your bigotry seems to point to this conclusion.
Anyone else want a turn?
It is hard to shake what we are raised with and bacon fed christians have no problem with a blind side to dietary laws but then scream sinner at gays, and that is when they are being nice
God's laws do have a purpose but outside of the ten commandments they were not given for one person to use to condemn another........ that died with Moses.
Jesus says that those who learn and become able to teach the law to others shall be great in the kingdom while those who do the opposite will be the least in the kingdom. (Matt.5:19)
But Jesus speaks of a spiritual side of the law that until know no one has ever taught, and that is the side of the law that controls our worship of God.
-You do know that you can indicate a question with only one question mark, don't you?
- as a comment that mentions love so many times, it seems to be dripping with hate.
I can relate to children enjoying these stories, but adults? It is I who feel so sorry for you that you stil need a comfort blanket in adulthood.
Sin is a theological term for what we secularly call "crime". Murder is a crime, secularly, and theologically, as is theft for example. Rational human beings, whether theist or atheist each agree that murder and theft are a crime. When the law is irrational, whether secular or religious, it is the law that first sins, commits a crime, and causes others to sin, or commit crimes. If the law is the cause of sin/crime, then who is the sinner.criminal? The one who violated the sinful/criminal law, or the ones who instituted, upheld and enforced it?
God said! Who said God said? Man said! Man's law and God's law have often both been utterly irrational, sometimes more often then not. The apocalyps causes destruction. When God's law is irrational, and Man's law is in agreement with that law, the apocalyps has come, and it has come to each and every generation since time began. Irrational, unjust, insane laws cause harm, destruction to both individuals and groups/socieities.
The entire credibility of sacred scriptures can be impeached, which isn't to say that the bible can't inspire raional, just thought, people, an laws. In fact the utter irrationality of much of scripture is fodder for the rational.
The major sin I see is the brainwashing and indoctrination of our young kids into believing that the bible is some kind of history book, it's not, it's just a mish mash of writings over many many years then crudely put together to suit the catholic church, who took charge over what is and what is not accepted literature.
It defies logic that people in this day and age still cling on to these 2,000 year old stories
as if they were actual events.
There is not ONE story in the bible that can't be read, sometimes almost verbatim, in other earlier religions. What makes the christian stories 'real' when all the others were accepted as myth?
If people need an imaginary sky daddy to get them through their life then that's fine but please, stop trying to delude others with this notion.
Keep it out of education and public life, you have your churches to relive your fantasy.
God is love - but love is not God. Don't make an idol out of your emotions. God's Word is true. Don't forsake his Word for your own "progressive" doctrines.
Also, no author of scripture ever watched nature enough to observe that there is a significant amount of same-sex sexual activity in the animal world. Paul talks about such things as "unnatural" -- but looking around us we see that it is indeed natural.
And we are finding increasingly that sexual tendencies have a genetic basis.
One doesn't "seek the truth" in order to "justify sin." If the truth is the truth and the action is sin, truth will condemn it. On the other hand, if what one has assumed to be true isn't, then perhaps seeing the truth can help us understand ourselves.
I seek the truth to understand myself, others, the world around me, the nature of faith, and how best to interact with others for the benefit of all. The young lady in the story should seek the truth for the same reasons.
While I understand that modern day scholars are trying to rehabilitate Paul's credibility by claiming that much of the epistles attributed to Paul are not of Paul, for the sake of argument, and this argument in particular, those letters "are" from Paul by those who reject scholars.
Paul is attempting to win converts to "his" brand of Christianity, appealing to the base/animal/lower nature of men/males, not their higher, intellectual rational self, the self that Jesus often appealed to.
I would therefore agree with you that many use the same argument when they make illogical appeals to nature, which isn't to say that those appeals are always as utterly irrational as traditional religions.
When Paul couldn't kill Christianity/New Covenant, he sought to mold it his way, and in conformity with ancient Jewish law, deceptively and selectly.
The argument that homosexuality is "sinful", or not, should be and can be made from within the texts themselves.
The only need for judgement and accounting is if it is not a gift, but that God is an investment banker/Wall St. hedge fund trader.
Genesis Chapter 19
Leviticus 18: 22
Leviticus: 20: 13
Judges 19: 22-24
Romans 1: 26 & 27
1 Corinthians 6: 9
1 Timothy 1: 8-10
Jude 7