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John Shore

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Christians and LGBTQ Equality: There Is No Middle Ground

Posted: 06/18/2012 2:12 pm

In response to my post "'It's no sin to be gay.' See how easy that is, Andrew Marin?" folks have made the point that Andrew's work is valuable, because he is "building bridges" -- because he is, as one reader put it, "creating stepping stones from one end of the spectrum to the other." They appreciate Marin establishing a neutral, non-judgmental, values-free middle ground where parties on either side of the gay-Christian debate can meet to together discuss and explore the issue.

And I'll be the first to admit that sounds great.

The problem, though, is that when it comes to the issue of LGBT equality, there is no such thing as a values-free middle ground. There can't be, because that is a moral issue. And that means it's about a very definite right and wrong.

And it's a moral issue of no small consequence. There couldn't possibly be more at stake. The people on one side of this debate -- the majority, which wields all the power -- are claiming that, in the eyes of God, those on the other side are less than human.

Whoosh. Good-bye middle ground. On a matter of such magnitude -- not to mention such immediacy -- morality of consciousness demands, at the very least, choosing a side.

No matter how strenuously he or she might deny it, the fact is that any Christian who does not forthrightly and unambiguously assert that there is nothing whatsoever inherently immoral about same-sex relationships has chosen a side in this conflict. To a starving man, the person who can't decide if they want to share their food is no better than the person who refuses to.

I'm all for conversations that are about exploring critical moral issues. And of course I in every last way encourage people on opposite sides of this issue to reach out to one another; it feels like about a fourth of my life is spent carefully and thoughtfully engaging with Christians whose theology is different from mine. (For over four years I've blogged on ultra-conservative Crosswalk.com, for goodness' sake.) But in order for such conversations to be of any genuine value, they must be intentional. They must explicitly have resolution as their purpose. A bridge that goes nowhere or stepping stones that quickly circle back to their starting point are useless.

When it comes to weighty moral issues, there's nothing wrong with traveling across the middle ground. But it's at best folly and at worse a harmful lie to maintain that it's morally feasible to remain in that middle ground. No one wanders the desert forever.

It's true that on the issue of LGBT and Christian relations I am impatient. But I'm impatient for a good reason. Christian leaders on the right do not hesitate to loudly and boldly claim their moral certitude. From the left-hand channel of that stereo, though, we too rarely hear anything but silence, or the static that almost sounds like words or music, but isn't. It's time to dial that station in, hit the button from "mono" to "stereo," turn up the volume, and start broadcasting the message that it's perfectly okay to be gay.

Christian leaders who persist in doing nothing more than "elevating the conversation" succeed in doing nothing more than alleviating the pangs of conscience that Christians on the right should be encouraged to feel for clinging to their convictions that same-sex relationships are an abomination before God. Instead of evading their moral responsibility, they need to once and for all, forthrightly and unequivocally, proclaim their full and unconditional acceptance of same-sex relationships. They need to do that for the sake of gay people, and for the sake of the millions who have lost their faith in God because they cannot reconcile the gross disparity between a clear moral precept and the only thing they ever hear Christian leaders say.

 
 
 

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02:40 AM on 08/01/2012
I agree with littlemike, we can't just select one sin to single out. If Christians are going to single out the LGBT community, we also need to wage war against divorcees and fornicators. That would be half of the Christian church. It looks like to me, that these subject have already been waged war on and the Christians have lost and now they are just moving on to the next thing. If they are true Christians, then they should know what the book of Revelations says, it's prophecy, these things will come to pass and there is nothing they can do about it. Love all people while we can.
GWBear
Reality focused educated progressive
10:56 AM on 06/20/2012
As long as *anyone* sees this as a "Lifestyle Choice" this morality discussion will continue. Personal choices imply morality based on the rightness or wrongness of the choice, much like being a vegetarian ir choosing to drive too fast. Choices really do not have to be accomodated.

Almost all Christians believe a personal choice was made, and not that people were born this way. Born this way implies the "hand of God," choice implies that "you did this to yourself." People MUST be challenged on their denial of the overwheming amount of scientific data available. Only then will the morality arguement be met on an appropriate footing.
04:14 PM on 06/19/2012
I completely disagree.

Google all of the churches that support GLBT (gaychurch.org). I am a member of one. Every one of these comments is anti Christian and John Shore I am calling you out for not being more of an aware adult and for pointing a finger in such a general direction. To honestly say all Christians are anti gay is like saying all Arabs are Muslim. If you have a problem with the Christians that don't believe LGBT is more than a life style choice then sound off with A/THE NAME and go from there. Don't condemn all Christians especially those you did not mention that support GLBT or Gays who are Christians.
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John Shore
Author of "UNFAIR"
10:29 PM on 06/19/2012
"Masculine": You might find it worth your while to actually read an article before launching into mini-rave about it.
09:08 AM on 06/20/2012
If you'll read what Mr. Shore wrote above, you'll see he's commenting on people trying to build a "middle ground" between churches like your's and churches of the opposite persuasion. His thesis is there's no middle ground. And he's arguing that Christian leaders in your type of church need to take back half of the media microphones that are currently dominated by the religious-right (to loudly and constantly condemn gay people) so as to present the other view (your view in fact).

Perhaps your faux pas here could be used as a teaching moment about how anyone should carefully read articles (just like scripture) to make sure one discerns the true meaning.
12:10 PM on 06/19/2012
Dialogue about the morality of same-sex orientation is akin to arguing the morality of left-handedness or having blue eyes, also minority traits and facts of nature (or facts of God's creation from a Christian point of view). Same-sex orientation simply is and it says nothing more about a person's ethical nature than a physical characteristic does. Christians who disagree are only undermining the ethical credibility of their own religion. At any rate, it's difficult to imagine that young Christians today, immersed in the controversy over us gay people to an extent that their parents never were, won't at a minimum give up on condemning us, full acceptance being another matter, and others will withdraw from a religion whose moral condemnation of gay people does not comport with the ethical nature of many gay people they've encountered. It's not as if our invisibility, which watered the garden of our opprobrium, will be returning any time soon.
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SeanMartin
Everything in moderation.
09:47 AM on 06/19/2012
As a friend of mine said recently, "Oh, I see you're here to tell me how to live my life.Wait. Let me get a little pad so I can make a few notes."
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Atwill
Christian puppets scare me
07:37 AM on 06/19/2012
God does not care about any of this. Men wrote the bible, not God. When you die and go to heaven, if you go and if there is a heaven, you will not have this body. You will not have your sexuality. you will not have sex. Do you think angels have sex and make angel babies?
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SeanMartin
Everything in moderation.
09:48 AM on 06/19/2012
Nope, they have angel sex and everyone loves it.

Well, I'm hoping so anyway. :-)
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GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast
08:02 PM on 06/20/2012
What kind of heaven is it if you don't have sex? Sounds like one designed by the religious folks who think enjoying yourself is a sin.
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Jeremy Bursac
You're not the bossa nova me.
02:47 AM on 06/19/2012
Who cares if funda mentalist Christians consider glbt people to be less than human? That's how many people regard religious zealots. We are all free to believe.

The issue is equal rights in a civil society. We are not free to discriminate without any rational basis. Scripture written a century after Jesus, in many languages, which has been translated many times by patriarchs, with disputed books and versions running around, with many internal contradictions are not a rational basis in a non theocracy.

Of course the people we're speaking of do think the US is a theocracy. It will take some time to disabuse them of this notion, as in making sure secular employees have every right to demand birth control coverage in their workplace health insurance plan.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
02:17 AM on 06/19/2012
No doubt it will take Christendom centuries to smarten up over this - if they smarten up at all. The same can be said of Islam, and Orthodox Judaism.

I am not sanguine about it, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

Meanwhile, what we should be most concerned about is changing our laws to reflect the modern, and more enlightened attitudes towards LGTB folks that are increasingly the norm in the western world.

If people want to hold onto their crazy, barbaric religious ideas, ultimately that's their business. Just don't tread on me, or anyone else either.
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SeanMartin
Everything in moderation.
09:50 AM on 06/19/2012
Given how long its taking the church to get the memo on how it treats women, you're no doubt quite right.

I wonder if there's any way to legislate them so they'll just have to shut up... without infringing on their freedom of speech, of course. :-)
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
01:05 PM on 06/19/2012
Of course, this amazing, fragile miracle we call democracy (as imperfect as it is) depends on allowing all sorts of fools to say all sorts of things.

It just becomes that much more important for the rest of us to deconstruct what fools say, so it doesn't become the law of the land.
01:31 AM on 06/19/2012
Jesus himself, in the New Testament, released those who would practice New Testament Christianity from many laws which Jews were commanded to keep in the Old Testament. He directly released them from: being clean/unclean on the basis of what a person eats, outward appearance and dress, laws like "an eye for an eye, and many others. However, he NEVER releases anyone from the sexual sins. In fact, the New Testament clearly states to "avoid sexual sin" in many places. Sexual sin included fornication (or, having sexual relationships with anyone you are not married to), sexual relationships with those you are related to (see 1 Corinthians), and sexual relationships with your own gender (see Romans 1). Sexual sin is one of the big themes throughout the New Testament! To suggest otherwise is to be ignorant of a clear theme throughout the bible. Right now, it "seems" right to many that it is okay for Christians to condone homosexuality. Proverbs 14:12 says, "There is a way that appears to be right,
but in the end it leads to death."
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Atwill
Christian puppets scare me
07:31 AM on 06/19/2012
Romans 1 has nothing to do with Jesus and should not be in the bible. Ignroe it
11:54 AM on 06/19/2012
Well, that sure makes it easy. Let's each ignore the parts of the bible that we don't like and we'll all be happy and get to do whatever we want! Great idea!
08:22 AM on 06/19/2012
What did Jesus himself have to say about homosexuality? He said ___________. A deafening silence of nothing. He did say that a divorcee remarrying was committing adultery. Where is the holy war against remarried divorcees? How about "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."? This is a black and white statement written in english and, according to your view, we cannot apply historical or cultural context. Therefore, no rich men will enter the kingdom of God. Where is the holy war against riches?

In summary, if biblical scholars disagree over the meaning of scriptures written in ancient greek and hebrew (with historical and cultural context being key and the fact that the meaning of words change over time), how can you be so absolute with your current english translation when Mr. Shore has clearly shown in his writings there are valid and logical reasons to not be? Are you substituting your own prejudice for what you think God wants?

Consider this statement I read somewhere once: "We have sufficiently created God in our image when He hates the same people we do."
11:59 AM on 06/19/2012
I am very confident in my understanding of scriptures not because of human wisdom, but because I have the help of the Holy Spirit, which guides us into truth (a gift to believers who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior). To those who do not accept Christ, the Holy Spirit is not given, and therefore they do not understand the scriptures in spite of degrees or education they may have. My comment above raises valid questions which you have not addressed, instead adding things which do not have any relevance to the conversation at hand, Commenting on the post at hand and it's responses would be appreciated.
11:06 PM on 06/18/2012
The problem, as I see it, is that they want to impose a theocracy, they want to convert by force. It doesn't work that way. Churches have made their position known. There is no middle ground John: homosexuality, according to their interpretation of the bible, is a sin and there is NOTHING we, science, or other contextual interpretations of the bible about this, that will make them think "oh gee!, what if?"

And you know what? I respect that, they can believe and interpret whatever they want but at the same time I ask for the same respect. Outside the church: constitution rules, human rights rule, free will rules.

They have "warned" us, we heard them. Hell is our destiny according to their teachings. Now step aside and let ME manage my relationship with God. Step aside and let the countries offer human rights for all AND let each one of us decide if we marry or not, if we engage in a "sinful" (for them) relationship or not.

I guess, it is so simple that it would be boring. Then they would have to practice the Golden Rule, and that's too much work and doesn't pay as much...
01:36 PM on 06/19/2012
Fabulous post! Love the kitten, too. Fanned & faved.
10:28 AM on 06/20/2012
Thank you :-)
07:38 PM on 06/18/2012
Oh for Christ's sake, live and let live. The "New Right" and Weyrich's Moral Majority have lost it completely. No global warming, no science, no sex, Absolutely No Abortion and now, they cannot understand that homosexuals do NOT chose to be..that it physiological - Do they know how to spell chromosones? This is just pure weirdness and that the New Right encourages blatant lies and falsehoods will be their achilles heal. Lord Help those Oppressed by these righteous people.
06:37 PM on 06/18/2012
Why can't the LGBT community understand that a true Christian loyalty is first to Christ. The true Christian cannot hate the Homosexuals. The true Christian however cannot accept or support anything that stem from homosexuality (ie, same-sex union, Homosexual rights) It is just not possible. We cannot compromise our relationship with Jesus. The only people who feel they are not equal are Homosexuals. Equal to what. Equality base on what reason? Sexual behavoir.
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Tony JohnsonLA
ALL Civil rights are a Constitutional Fact!!
07:48 PM on 06/18/2012
Wrong on all counts. Because a true "Christian" would not be so quick to assume they understand God's will more than another, as you have done. A true "Christian" would refuse to stand in judgement of someone they do not fully understand or can claim to understand. A true Christian would consider that perhaps because JESUS Christ NEVER once mentioned it, there may be some 2000 year old bigotry and misinformed people who made the original fantastic assertions, along with the killing your slave comments and selling your children etc..(you brought him into, and this is really not his fight)

Lastly, a true "Christian" would accept with blind faith that anyone who says that they were made by God this way, would not be lying about it, for any reason, and they can accept that on faith.

How is there, in holier than thou-ville?
08:15 PM on 06/18/2012
Will you give up all 1,138 benefits extended to legally married opposite-sex couples by our secular federal government? Because the legally married same-sex couples in this country all have state-issued marriage licenses--identical to those held by our opposite-sex counterparts--yet we cannot access any of those special benefits because people who have a special relationship with Jesus have decided that this is some sort of theocracy and that they solely deserve 1,138 special rights just because they're so gosh-darned special. That is the issue, zilly. We do not care if you support us--we fully understand you despise us despite your protestations to the contrary (we've felt that kind of 'love' all too often, thanks very much). We will settle for equal rights and treatment under the law. That is the equality we seek. It has NOTHING to do with your personal obsession with gay sex and everything to do with the fact that you and your spouse receive 1,138 special benefits that are denied to me and my spouse. Is that clear enough for you? As to your relationship with Christ; how dare you assume that none of us can say the same. Prideful bigotry is not real pretty, zilly.
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Bill J4321
05:56 PM on 06/18/2012
One can only wonder who christians will seek to abuse and degrade next, or if they have set their sights on their LGBT children alone.

From a gay perspective, the only emotion I am capable of mustering toward christians these days is pity.
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Darr Sandberg
"What is essential is invisible to the eye" Sain
11:35 PM on 06/18/2012
"From a gay perspective, the only emotion I am capable of mustering toward christians these days is pity. "

You spelled prejudice wrong.

Most of the support for civil equality for GLBTQ people in the U.S. is from Christians. Not all of the opposition to civil equality for GLBTQ people in the U.S. comes from Christians - there are plenty of atheists and agnostics who are openly homophobic, and even more who promote anti-gay theology, endangering the lives of GLBTQ people, to press their war on Christians.
02:33 AM on 06/19/2012
The key thing is that Bill said "from a gay perspective." It's what he sees.

I never see any support from Christians. Any. Ever. Where is this support for civil equality? You can't just claim it to be there and there it is.

It's quite possible that there is some quiet support. But that frankly isn't working.

The whole name of Christianity has been truly hijacked. We're waiting for the normal Christians to take it back. And it looks like they aren't up for it.

So by 2020, I bet, Christianity in the US will be synonymous with anti-gay, anti-women's rights, anti-science, anti-tax, anti-secular education, and anti-Islam. And it will mean nothing else.
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Bill J4321
12:28 PM on 06/19/2012
More ridiculous words, I've never read.

Anytime in my life that I have experienced abuse, it has been at the hands of a heterosexual christian. Every. Single. Time.

Your post makes me feel nauseous. It should make you feel that way, too.