Hillary's PUMA Voters: "It's Not Too Late!"

In the wake of Barack Obama's recent perceived move to the center, disaffected supporters of Hillary Clinton have released a "Call To DNC Delegates" urging them to "leave fraudulent Obama in Denver" and "save the Democratic Party by nominating the truer Democrat."

Posted on the website of the group called PUMA or "Party Unity My Ass" -- one of the groups that make up the mostly Democratic anti-Obama "Just Say No Deal coalition" -- the call asks "just 175 delegates" to throw their support to Hillary Clinton at the convention.

"We are not calling for some futile and self-defeating gesture," the post reads. "We are pointing to the path that leads to victory."

With Senator Clinton, we have a superior, battle-tested, and winning candidate who is waiting in the wings, ready, and willing to take over. Clinton would be a reliable leader on the issues that have built the Democratic Party. She has stood firm on her positions -- past and present -- even when it is not politically expedient.

The call enumerates Obama's recent alleged strategic backpedaling on key progressive issues -- on withdrawal from Iraq, for example, opposition to the new FISA bill and efforts to privatize social security.

From the instant that he felt that the Democratic nomination was in his hands, Obama has moved relentlessly to the right in a breathtaking, stunning exhibition of cynicism, duplicity, and fraudulent campaigning. Everything he stood for has been thrown overboard, and Obama has broken his word -- the commitment he made to his own core voters and donors.

Soon there will be no difference at all between Obama and McCain on the Iraq war, and the Democratic Party will have missed yet another historic opportunity to help the American people end Bush's and Cheney's failed Neo-Conservative policies. McCain is exploiting Obama's radical shifts in position as examples that Obama has no principles, but only opportunism and expediency, and that his much-touted soaring words mean absolutely nothing.

Obama promised to stop Bush's assault on the Constitution and civil liberties, and end illegal wiretapping. Now, Obama will vote for the Republican leaning compromise on the FISA bill, including immunity for the telecoms -- something only yesterday he promised the Democrats who supported him he would filibuster.

[...]

Obama now openly supports the death penalty, more of Bush's faith-based theocratic subsidies, and the "merit pay" assault on teachers. He wants to cut the corporate income tax, and he now opposes attempts to curb hand gun violence.

In a most glaring betrayal to his contract with the Democratic base, Obama's current team of economic advisers suggests that he will soon come out for the partial privatization of Social Security, camouflaged as "entitlement reform."

According to the PUMAs, if left un-addressed, Obama's strategic blunders will cost Democrats the White House:

McCain will point out that voters cannot trust the disingenuous Obama, and on that, McCain will be correct.

But they have their answer:

Fortunately, Obama has tipped his hand by dropping his mask too soon: there is no Democratic nominee until the Roll Call of the States on August 27, 2008 in Denver.

[...]

The fate of the United States -- and the future of the Democratic Party - now rests with a minimum of 175 Democratic delegates who must now exercise their mature political judgment in the service of their country, and turn away from Obama to support Senator Clinton.

As of now, Obama has about 2229.5 delegate votes, with 1766.5 pledged delegates and 463 super delegates.

Clinton has 1896.5 delegate votes, with 1639.5 pledged and 257 super delegates.

Shift just 175 delegates from Obama to Clinton, and Obama's power grab comes to a halt.

On some level, the call represents a perhaps predictable turn for the PUMAs and the Just Say No Deal coalition. In an interview last month, PUMA spokesman Will Bower told the Huffington Post's OffTheBus that the plan at that point was primarily to send a message to the Democratic Party that the primary election process was deeply flawed and anti-democratic and to send that message by working to defeat Obama in the fall. A coordinated effort to help Hillary Clinton win the nomination after she had conceded seemed all but off the table. Obama's recent controversial positions and the deep dissatisfaction that has resulted among many progressive Obama supporters has apparently opened a window for the reluctant Democrats Obama has been trying intermittently and with mixed results to woo since the long season of primary voting wrapped up -- when Clinton suspended but never officially ended her campaign.

Comments

[EarthToZoey]

I'm torn in my opinion of the PUMA movement. I agree with their argument that sexism was rampant in the attacks against Hillary Clinton. I also believe she was a viable, strong candidate. Let us also consider that racial and age bias is also apparent in attacks against Obama and McCain, respectively.

I am not a Democrat who blindly goes along with the party's talking points and agenda, and I find it disconcerting for people to accuse the "PUMAs" of not being a "true Democrat". Is that a compliment or an derisive comment? Is free-thinking not respected anymore?

I am by no means a "rabid" follower of Obama, but I will vote for him because-- although he is not perfect (just as Sen Clinton is not) -- he is a stark contrast to McCain and represents a liberal ideology. I do not understand how anyone who is liberal would support a candidate who is clearly and unequivocally a conservative similar to the Bush era of the "neocon". Why not write-in Hillary? The principled position you claim would be disingenuous otherwise. Also, those who are worried about inexperience should remember that Abraham Lincoln's experience was roughly comparable to that of Obama. I'm not saying Obama is the next Lincoln, but the experience concern should be below that of policy ideas.

[Lu4PUMA]

WHY NOT (part 2 of 2)
The one thing that is common to the coalition that has formed under the umbrella group JustSayNoDeal.com is that they are asserting that they will not vote for Obama. The various groups and members are still debating the other options.

Most want the DNC to just Nominate Hillary Clinton as the Presidential Candidate. The popular vote was so close that the Superdelegates will be making this determination at the August DNC Convention. Various groups are fighting to keep Hillary Clintons name on the roll call.

Some plan to write in Clinton if Obama is finally selected. However, in some states that will not work unless Clinton registers as a candidate. In some states, such a vote would be counted toward Obama.

Some are convinced that Obama is actually worse for America than McCain. Others would unwillingly vote for McCain and then otherwise vote a straight Democratic ticket, using the rational for selecting Obama in the first place.

[seanosul]

Ok so let us refute the RNC accusations again.

"Selected" Obama won a clear majority of elected delegates. Super Delegates wanted the race over before August because McWar had already started campaigning and continuing a divisive fight up until the convention would have only helped the RNC. The RNC talking point is that Super Delegates should now decide to take the nomination away and give it to Clinton at the convention? Utter stupidity.

He got Republican money? Really? 1.5 million doanted to his campaign. 1.5 million people. More than any other candidate. Something Clinton had to copy very late on because she maxed out her corporate donors. She did not even have a donate page until much later in the campaign - the priority was to get money from "hillraisers".

"Electability" - go on stop hiding the hats. What is this argument? That Clinton supporters and "hard working WHITE Americans" will not support him? You show why on your disgraceful blogs. The "Muslim" issue, the "birth certificate" issue, the" African" issue - all of it being repeated ad nauseam on PUMA blogs. All not so coded ways of saying you will not support him because he is black. If you take the nomination away for that reason the Democrats will never survive. Hillary cannot win between August to September. There is nothing that can be done that would overcome the sense of disgust that would generate amongst fair minded Democrats. Again only something a true Democrat would worry themselves about.

[Lu4PUMA]

WHY NOT (part 1 of 2)

The DNC selected Obama even though he was less qualified and his electability was dubious. There is every indication that much of his initial grandiose fund raising came from the GOP to give him an artificial boost as a candidate less likely to win. However, there was also a faction within the DNC that rationalized his selection because the Democrats are expecting to control the legislature and do not "need" to also have a Democratic President. It would help them get more of their platform supported, but a Republican President would not have the same control as Bush did. So they advocated Obama as more progressive and rationalized the risk.

However, Obama is not more progressive and he is not qualified to lead the nation. He has a history of graft, corruption and mess and he has been flip-flopping like a fish out of water.

[harleanc]

How ridiculous. McCain is the worst flip flopper I can remember in presidential politics. How long did it take for him to back off his "punish the homeowners" position on foreclosures? Two weeks? The MSM is absolutely cowardly when it comes to exposing his duplicity. Remember his railing against Liberty University because of its racist policies and then rushing off to lecture there & woo the evangelical racist vote? He's just pathetic. How can HRC's supporters not see that?
Obama is not showing new stripes. He's showing the old ones the Obamabots, bloggers, and MSM deliberately ignored because they wanted to believe in Santa Claus. Get over it! Neither Clinton nor Obama is the messiah or even a squeaky clean icon of hope. Start from that point, and we won't have to settle for the Democratic party shooting itself in the foot as it usually does.

[Lu4PUMA]

Hillary Clinton is the more qualified candidate. Obama was selected on the pretext that he was "the messiah". Now, it is apparent that he is just less qualified.

This is about the President we will have for the next four years. That is not something anybody is going to get over sooner than that.

[LAR1969]

I'm sorry, you don't get to rob me of my vote for Obama. But thanks for being so democratic and articulate in your attempt to do so.

[MsMarx]

"Hillary Clinton is the more qualified candidate. Obama was selected on the pretext that he was "the messiah". Now, it is apparent that he is just less qualified."

Dear "Lu": It must be wondrous indeed to be so certain of your own opinion. Who died and made you the arbiter of presidential qualifications? We have a Constitution, and it states clearly the basic requirements for holding the job. Obama was not "selected," he won the nomination. I can assure you that the majority of his supporters do not think he is the second coming; moreover, you imply that Obama supporters are incapable of critical thinking. That's pretty hypocritical given the tabloid trash to which your "coalition's" web portal links.

[JerseyBob]

If Hillary wants to be considered for the vice presidency, she needs to vigorously deny the activity of this 527 group. She needs to deny this with no wishy washy comment about the right of the electorate to run such side pocket campaigns. This denial should be made to Obama's satisfaction.

Initially, a day or two-perhaps more, Hillary won't say much about this. The pundits will. And they will look for her reaction to this news.

She needs to be believable-no Bosnia '96 hutnya here. Watch her reaction on this one.

[Lu4PUMA]

What in the world would make you think Clinton wants the VP slot? She needs to go for the Presidential Nomination. She knows if Obama gets the nomination he is not likely to win.

[pleeezzze]

Jersey...can we assume that YOU will do the deciding on Pres or VP ?
Your pal has so many "misspeaks" that we've lost count by now , does that make him More qualified ?
Not in this lifetime !!

[dreffein]

To all those still supporting Obama - the PUMA movement is real, it is full of many lifelong Democrats and it has successfully paid down most of HRC's debt in 1 weekend. Senator Obama, once again was "just words" with his supporters raising less than $100.000 to retire her debt. So, when the phone rings and it's BO's campaign asking for $$$, I'll remember how well they helped out HRC.

BTW - sounds like Senator Obama should have paid more attention to HRC supporters. 3 declining months of fundraising and sounds like June won't be too great either. LOL.

Here's hoping a few SDs come to their senses in Denver.

[seanosul]

The "story" that Obama collected only $100,000 for Clinton was ut out by a Republican front organisation known as PUMA. There is no way to tell if it was PUMA or Obama who raised the most moeny as the Clinton site does not ask whether you are a real Democrat or a Republican slimeball.

For PUMA, which has at most 1000 members to have cleared the debt (and there is no confirmation the debt is cleared), each redneck would have had to have found $20,000. It does not take much thought to work out that the debt was cleared by Democrats and not the RNC front.

[Laurelin]

Redneck, seanosul? Slimeball??

What IS it with Obama followers and the relentless name calling? Are you just naturally mean and unimaginative, or do you get some special training for that?

Could you actually think that you are supporting your cause by belittling your fellow Democrats? It's arrogance like yours that's dividing the party . . .

[dreffein]

Actually, this was reported by the the NYT and MSNBC (the Obama fanclub network). PUMA has over 230 affiliated organizations with approximately 2.5 million members. Check out your facts before you respond. And, your namecalling is totally inappropriate but very typical of Obama supporters when presented with facts.

[Lu4PUMA]

And just see how Obama works for "party untiy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Cv8CVjQTc&eurl=http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/video-will-bower-telling-the-world-that-we-dont-need-obama/

[lvdragonlady]

nominating the truer Democrat - PUMA needs to learn to read the fine print. Clinton was a repub before she was a dem, so a 'true' democrat is isn't.

[dreffein]

Oh yes - HRC supported Goldwater in 1964 when whe would have been, let's see, 16. By all means, punish her for the rest of her life for what she did at 16. Do you have any better ammo than this?

[pleeezzze]

So was I BEFORE I saw the light , so make a better point !
When people are young they usually follow their parents .

[seanosul]

Q: What do you call a bunch of demonstrating PUMA supporters ?
A: A bigot line

Q: What kind of buns do PUMA supporters like with their burgers?
A: Hot Cross buns

Q: Where do PUMA Members like to shop?
A: Circle KKK. (Although they may have difficulty working the coffee machine)

Q: Why do PUMA members were pointed hats?
A: Easier to fit over the dunce cap (and you can carry at least 3 cats in them)

[Lu4PUMA]

Q: What do you call people who voted for Obama
A: Fooled again.

[seanosul]

Q How do you get 20 puma supporters to a protest?

A Take away the reporters and they can share a ride in a two seater.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/clinton-suppo-1.html

[Laurelin]

Your post is offensive.

You are so out of your league attempting to discuss actual issues here, that you resort to using offensive racial images.

Folks like you make me extremely proud to support Hillary Clinton.

[Lu4PUMA]

Laurelin,

Seanosul has many repetitive postings on this blog. He is not trying to discuss any issues, he is trying to be disruptive. The few points he has made amongst his insults, name calling and bigotry have been responded to more than once.

I have asked him how old he is but he will not tell me. I suspect he is a younger voter, if he is old enough to vote at all, and that he was indoctrinated through one of Obama programs. Words are not reaching him anymore and I plan to pray for him.

[fredfep]

..and another thing. No one was right about delegate counts...look back in history and candidates rarely won on 1st ballot, and even rarer was when they entered Convention with it clinched. Hillary was actually right on that, leading delefates never meant someone won, usually they would. Before Superdelegates there were favorite sons in a state, perhaps more than one. Dealing went on.

Obama has not had a vote yet. It is too late for Hillary, her supporters are just spoil-sports, but it might not be too late for another nominee. Obama seems to be on the edge of losing his fanatic following. Evidently not the true fanatics, just like Hillary supporters tehy won't change even if he came on TV eating babies, but he is very unwise going to the right, especially this soon. He is as foolish as the cautious Congress after 2006 elections who should have gone in for the kill. I mean, when youe ven have Alan Keyes acting sheepish about the rout, you don't back off. Obama now is backing off, he is losing financial support and I bet his polls go down. Perception is all that matters, and teh perception now is not too good as itw as a few weeks ago...

[fredfep]

You are all nuts. Thebest thing Democrats could do is nominate Gore or Edwards orr Richardson.

Look, McCain seems more out of it than Bush, but that never stopped Reagan from beating Mondale did it?

McCain stands for nothing until you read deeper and see how right wing he really is. Hillary is a triangulator. Hers upporters only care taht she is a woman. None of these three have any executive experience. Hillary has none, Mccain has none, Obama has none. Obama is nauseating me with his surge rightward but Hillary did this before Pennsylvania. Hillbots, Obots, you are all full ot itbots. Neither sees the nose in front of your face. Which side of the egg should we crack? WHO CARES?

Obama is acting like it is October and the Convention hasn't even happened yet. racism sexism agism.

I had thought the country was growing up. hard to do with a cowardlly Congress afraid to stand for anything. I se Shumer is disappointed in his defense secretary or is it Biden with his Attorney General? What is tehd ifference, this nonsense has been going on at least since Biden threw Anita Hill under teh bus and approved the worst justice ever (wait I forgot the other 3 obstructionists)

Obama Hillary, barf on them all but McCain will be a disaster...as it is going Israel on Iran may destroy the world's economyy and McCain, useless on national security but perceived as tough might win.

I

[presto]

You do realize that Obama is a triangulator who out-triangulates all triangulators?

And please, please, please...no Richardson. Edwards or Gore, okay.

[mjc]

This is a question directed to those of you who are PUMAs or support them. If you know who Ricki L. is then I don't need to know but if you do not and are not on the website please let me know: mjc Our email addys are protected on this site so can't use that. Thanks.

[schicklett3]

Who really believes that Hillary Clinton is supporting Barack Obama? Hillary is for Hillary. Period.
Remember she's keeping her delegate's "just in case," and she's waiting in the wings for something to happen to Senator Obama.
She and Bill Clinton have an agenda - they want back in the White House. Just wait until the convention and you'll see what they're really up to.
Hillary is blackmailing Obama into paying off her campaign debt - voting for dollars!

[cleffnote]

Just like Edwards has kept his delegates.

[presto]

Hillary could be nominated with or without her delegates. It doesn't matter. That's a mountain/molehill thing.

[Mattjoe]

‘We are not calling for some futile and self-defeating gesture’

PUMA (Party of Unalleviated Moronic Aspirations)

[Judexs]

I think they got their felines mixed up...cougars, pumas, whatever.

When will you bitter old women get over it?

[miriamac]

Pls do not defame bitter old women!

[Laurelin]

PUMA doesn't have to divide the party . . .

You're doing a fine job of that yourself, Judexs.

[theMightyT]

PUMA supporters

Hillary threw all of you UNDER THE BUS (aaaaaaaaaah feels good to use that on this thread) yesterday... when are you all going to accuse her of flip flopping and rally behind McCain? After all it was only a few short months ago that Hillary said Obama wasn't experienced enough / not ready / just had words... that McCain would be a better president than he would... now she's saying she'll do anything and everything to get him elected.

That's got to be the biggest flip AND flop of the entire campaign cycle thus far? I wonder why the MSM isn't reporting on that?? ooooooooooh that dirty pro-Obama MSM....

[closetodemfection]

Um, Hello? Many think he isn't experienced enough. BO himself said he shouldn't run in 2004 because he wouldn't have enough experience. But apparently the DNC didn't care about that.

I'm sure HRC still thinks he's not ready. So what, she's stuck like the rest of us. And she's a very loyal dem and wants a dem in the white house so she does what she has to do. I honestly believe she wants O to win for that reason alone.

That doesn't mean the voters have to be as loyal to the party as she is.

[northeast73]

EXACTLY! Its funny how the Obots only listen/hear Hillary clearly when she is endorsing Obama or saying somehting else they want to hear.

[theMightyT]

Voters aren't even loyal to her. When she says something they don't like, they ignore her. Else they'd all be voting for Obama.

So I guess PUMA is an entire party of flip-floppers. First they support her, now they don't.

Intellectually and morally bankrupt! :)

[Lu4PUMA]

Mighty T,

Hillary Clinton knows the Obama is not electable and she is just waiting for the DNC to figure that out. If they do not catch on before the DNC Convention, I am sure she will be very happy with fame, fortune, family and a seat in the Senate.

We are Hillary Clinton's supporters, not followers, and she does not have the hold on us to throw us anywhere. We are working at paying off her campaign debt, protesting the anti-democratic behaviors of the primary campaign and asking her to step up for the nomination.

You have also improperly paraphrased her. Go back and look at exactly what she said.

[theMightyT]

Lu

I was trying to be deliberately over the top because i think the whole idea of PUMA is ridiculous.

The notion that Obama isn't electable is just farcical. Millions of *new* supporters - not lifelong democrats, not party faithfuls... NEW voters. He's drawing independents and Republicans like no other candidate... to say he's not electable is, in my opinion, an indication of stubborness to accept him as the candidate.

Obama isn't perfect. I am entirely willing to grant that. Who is? But the point of PUMA, which as far as I can figure out was founded before the primary season ended, was to try as hard as possible to overturn the results of the primaries if the winner wasn't Hillary. How is that supporting democracy?

And my second point, after which I will give it up because there's obviously no making some people see reason, is that Hillary understands that it's vital to keep the WH out of Republican hands. To that end, she's asking her supporters - not telling them - to vote for a candidate whose positions are virtually the same as hers. Why PUMA insists on ignoring this, and is willing to allow McCain to continue to destroy the country, is not only incomprehensible, but REPrehensible. The ultimate cutting off of the nose to spite the face.

[benne]

I can tell you what will be the real deal-breaker for me: if Hillary's name is not entered into the initial roll-call. This will be a break with history with the only woman ever to get this many delegates given the first snub. This is unacceptable and undemocratic, and if the DNC lets this happen, I am forever leaving the party.

[seanosul]

There is only one reason members of the RNC front want Hillary on the ballot in August - they want to encourage division at what has essentially become a showcase for the Presidential Campaign. They want to encourage Hillary delegates "to do something". For that you now claim "precedent". (As if following rules was not a precedent). Well, if it happens, it will happen in a way that DOES NOT benefit the RNC. Your front PUMA can stuff it up its arse.

What is important at the Convention is to ensure that a strong message is sent out detailing why a Democrat President is important. Poring over the Primaries will not do that. As for precedent - sod it. It is precedent for Democrats to tear themselves apart and then lose.

[Lu4PUMA]

Seanosul,

You have still not told us how old you are. Are you over 20? How did you come to be so wise, so young? And did you learn to talk like that from Obama?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vP98jGjaJIM

Is that why he is your hero?

[abby4ever]

Any group that names itself 'Party Unity My Ass' and expects to be taken seriously, is deluded.

[buske]

I totally agree. However, their post is coherently written and very effective. So despite their name, I'm with them.

[closetodemfection]

For the record, they've adopted a less angry, more determined acronym now of "People United Means Action."

The other is just more fun to say.

[Lu4PUMA]

Is that how you are evluating the issues? There are over 200 Clinton Support blogs and websites listed under JustSayNoDeal.com. They have a variety of names.

[genseric13]

I hope Hillary runs 3rd Party. I know it won't happen but I think she would win. She could win Cali, NY, NJ and a lot of other states. There are so many people out there that don't want Mccain or Obush.

[Lu4PUMA]

We are hoping the Democratic Party will stand up and nominate her for the Democratic Candidate at the final vote in August so people do not have to vote third party or write her in or vote for McCain. Speak up and let your state Democratic representatives know how people feel about this.

[MoVann]

I would love to see her try! She would be totally abandoned by the entire democratic party, and although there are some folks out there that feel that she would be a better president, the party that supports, backs, and has the muscle backs Obama. That is the fact of the matter. Her political career would be over, and she will be known as nothing more than a vengful woman that could not deal with her loss. Hillary is a VERY intelligent woman. She will live to fight another day. Women like her are strategic, not stupid. Standing up at the Democratic Convention claiming the nomination, would just be plain stupid.

[LAR1969]

Yes. I will speak up and tell my Democratic representative that we should put an end to this silly democratic election process! From now on, PUMA and its offshoots will determine who they think is best suited to be POTUS.

[Mekarri]

HILLARY LOST THE NOMINATION. WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THAT AND GET OVER IT. You all are no better than bushco, if you don't like something just try another way of getting around it. The democrats may loose but it won't be because of Obama. It will be because of these stupid pepole like PUMA. I was a Hillary supporter but considering the way she and her followers behave, I am glad that she didn't win. Everyone on her team acts as if she is entitled and Hillary herself is still running around act as if this is owe her. Well, Hillary you are not entitled to win just because you are white and a Clinton. You had your chance and you blew it so act as if you have some self respect left and call off your attack dogs. There are more important things to worry about than stroking your ego. Be a great American and put your country first. Or is that too much to ask?????

[quest44]

I agree Mekarri.

I can't help but wonder since Obama took Hillary under his arm and gave her his ear just how much influence she may have had in his FISA vote ? I wouldn't put anything past that woman ! Here Obama is trying to get his supporters to help her out with her debt and there she is underminding him with her FISA vote and making it public ! I think she has planned to try and steal this nomination all along in Denver and I know for a fact that at least some of her supporters are waiting for Denver and fully expect her to do something then.
If they want to sneak for a president well guess what you already have one and maybe you love him too since you want someone whose moral character is the same as his !

My first choice was Kucinich but when he dropped out I decided to support Obama because I already knew Hillary and Bill for who they have become after years in politic's and I didn't like what I saw with how they were running a mud slinging campaign and were willing to cheat to win the nomination ! Boy you people who want to exchange one corrupt president for another one are reall sad and stupid people .Worse yet you would rather waste your vote and see McCain ,,another Bush ,,as president than Obama ,a Democrat who certainly would be a far better president than McCain

[cleffnote]

Hillary did not concede, she suspended her campaign just like Edwards has suspended not conceded. Since no one won the needed pledged votes, there needs to be a vote at the convention. Obama proclaimed himself the nominee but that is only a presumption. I'm sorry that all of you Obama supporters were lied to and told that he has won, but he has not. The party will have an election in August since no one yet has the needed delegates to win, there must be and will be a roll call vote. At the time of the convention the supers will vote for the first time. Intent to vote is not a vote, they can change their mind at anytime until they cast their vote. This is the Democratic process. Get over it, we still do not have a nominee. The sooner you Obama followers accept that, the sooner we can get on with winning the election in November. I will decide who to vote for after the convention, as should we all.