Having passed the 4,000 Americans killed mark in Iraq, the media will once again focus on the war in Iraq, like days ago when we passed the five-year mark there. These kinds of milestones and the inevitable media infatuation with them make me somewhat queasy. It's as if the 4000th person killed there was more important than the 3,999th, or the 4,001st. To me, and I would say to most Americans, every American killed in Iraq, everyday, is of equal importance.
If anything, the 4000th death (and all the rest) does serve as a reminder to the cost of ineptitude and when compared to the early statements and rhetoric leading up to the war, and serves as a harsh reminder of the truth. No WMD. No link to 9/11 or al Qaeda. No threat of "mushroom clouds" over American cities if we did not invade Iraq, while a certain increased risk now because we've allowed al Qaeda to rebuild from Afghanistan and Pakistan.
A more important fact is that, as Brandon Friedman writes at VetVoice.com, "American forces have just experienced the most violent two-week period in Iraq since September 2007... Between March 10 and March 23, 25 American soldiers were killed in Iraq. The last two-week period in which U.S. forces sustained similar losses was between September 14 and September 27, when 26 were killed--a period that capped off the bloodiest summer of the war." It is just one more reminder that the rate of those killed in Iraq will go up and down, which is hardly a sign of significant progress.
On another note is that this happened on March 23. To me that is such a striking date because I was in the Tactical Operation Center (TOC) in Heidelberg, Germany and we were preparing to deploy. This was one of the first days of the war five years ago, when we realized we troops were really at war. Ten Marines had been killed, and a logistics convoy (Jessica Lynch's convoy) had disappeared in Nasriyah. The photos and videos were on TV, and our Colonel in the TOC stood up and said, "This is a harsh reminder that America is at war, and for some of you it's the first time."
Five years later, what does the 4000-death mark mean to me? It means that today, like yesterday and tomorrow, we will lose some of the finest Americans we have. That is a harsh reminder that disastrous policy decisions have tragic consequences. That is, as my Colonel said, a harsh reminder of war.
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Ummm.....Huff Post?!
DEAR PATRIOTS;
FOLKS;
Young RTO, WE the People have failed in our sacred duty to never allow our Soldiers into harms way for a cause that is not just. Please try to forgive your fellow citizens for they were afraid and remained silent while the dark clouds of deception gathered. WE will for our part ABOLISH this government on April 19th in the City of Philadelphia and hold a Constitutional Convention to create amendments to assure that this crime against our Soldiers can never again be repeated. You and your courageous Brothers and Sisters have been sacrificed for the sake of money. Profiteers in weapons and Oil have taken hold of the rains of our Nation and mass marketed this war for profit. Make no mistake, all who have eyes to see and ears to hear, this will not stand. WE THE PEOPLE the seat and source of all authority in this Republic have judged this government and found them corrupt to the core. It is our sacred duty under the Preamble to the Declaration Of Independence th ABOLISH any government that fails to serve the will of the People and ignores the Rule of Law.
Don't apologize to me. I'm more likely to take offense in the invalidation of sacrifice by quitting too soon. If that is allowed to happen, I'll be happy to accept an apology. I can't imagine that you'll get the required support for a Convention, and while I believe you are misguided, I recognize your intent is good.
Please try to understand a Soldier especially one that has been deployed to a region that somewhere things don't make sense inside to them. Having witnessed and done things most would never dream in their worst nightmare, These young men and women have a vested interest deep within to justify their sacrifice and the violence they participated in. It is a basic human behavior and the scares will maybe fade with time. We as a Nation ask our Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen, to be at the ready to defend our Country. When they are ordered into harms way, with all the risks to their very body and soul that entails, they must assume that the cause is just, or the order could not have been given. Once committed to battle, a Soldier cannot waiver from the basic belief, that their cause is just. They could not do nor endure all that is asked of them if this moral question was before them. It is therefore the sacred duty of We The People to always insure that their cause is JUST. That Trust has been Betrayed!
So we're just fooling ourselves? We can't really believe in the mission?
So, not only has this administration done more to increase terrorism and anti-America sentiment than any other administration in history, this administration has done more to damage our armed forces than any other in history. Even after we pull out of Iraq, it will take decades for the military to recover. Everyday I speak to parents who tell me they will do everything they possibly can to discourage their children from joining the armed forces. It's a shame, but it is understandable. What good parent would want his/her child to die because of the corruption of our nation's leaders?
PBS Frontline has gathered all the Intell adn hard Evidence We need to to begin REAL investigation and Levy REAL indictments. but I must say giving credit to the Stooge is still allowing these men to hide behind th escapegoat. It's Cheney's War, and the Inc's War and the Foreign Investors War. It has never been Ours, not caused by US, Nor about US, or For US. But it has funded , manned and sacrificed by US.
Purple Girl is right. The Frontline "Bush's War" expose will serve to indict the present war criminals still in and those out of government. It's our duty to read the compilation of CIA agents, Military experts, Justice department staff, politicians, and journalists who have done a patriotic duty in exposing the duplicity and criminality cheney and rumsfeld foisted onto the country.
Check it out:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/
4,000 Americans killed in Iraq is actually a lie, like all the others they have told. Nobody counts the contractors, and yet they are still Americans, they are still paid for with your tax dollars, far more than a troop I might add, and yet, they don't count when they get shot, blown up, and killed.
If this story is any example, thanks to people like KBR I would guess we'll be seeing "quiet" Iraq casualties for decades to come...http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/25/iraq_contractor_fights_suit_over_toxic_exposure/
Not so. DoD announces them also. You can sign up for e-mail updates if you like. There's a list on icasulaties.org. 1,001 of all nationalities.
When I stated the "nobody counts the contractors," I was talking about this Huff Post, other blog posts, the AP, other media sources, and nearly all of the news about the USA reaching a milestone of 4,000 Americans killed in Iraq. The actual milestone of 4,000 Americans killed in Iraq since Bush ordered Iraq invaded and occupied was reached long ago, but since contractors aren't being counted in the media, it was never considered a milestone - - but this number is. You are in a thread about it. You can't privatize military jobs during an invasion and occupation and keep a second set of books ... I take that back, that's exactly what's happening, and by the way, and perhaps due to repeated letter writing by me to my local paper on this subject, they just had a staff reporter do research and published a report, and according to his research, the death rate for "American" contractors are well in excess of 1,200, so depending on source, the numbers don't match and aren't being accurately recorded. And as one US Military General stated, they don't count the Iraqis.
Personal note to RT (and totally off-thread). Been looking for a recent thread to find you and apologise for my bad manners... I forgot to thank you for your response to my question "Are you officer or enlisted?" The fact that you're a "working man" rather than an officer gives your postings a lot more credibility. Frankly, I tend to mistrust officers, especially the politically inclined ones who vie for the high rank and the lucrative consulting job on retirement from the service. Stay well, RT, good luck and keep your head down!
Thank you.
I was reticent to answer your question. I'm used to getting the opposite--dismissal of my opinion becasue I'm "just" a Junior NCO.
I would also add those troops that were airlifted to Germany.
Neo-cons see 4,000 deaths as acceptable damage in their quest to fulfill their dream of Manifest Destiny now called the New World Order. If McCain wins, then we will have voted to conquer the world and make it into democracy based on American neo-con principles, even if it takes 100 years.
10:oo PM, EST, 307 comments for O'Reilly; 164 for 4000 dead. Does this speak to anybody?
I honor, and pray for, my brothers and sisters in uniform who have given their lives, regardless whether they die, are wounded, or come home unscathed. They have served in the finest traditions of the US military. All who have gone before should salute them.
I understand the need to think the horror and terror inflicted by our "troops" is honorable and done with the best of intentions and with pure hearts. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions and this fantasy view of reality is a travesty of what "America" was meant to be. And the need to believe somehow that the lives of U.S. citizens (Americans include everybody from Point Barrow to Tierra del Fuego, the U.S. is but a small part of "America') have any more value than all those 'others'. But the unpleasant fact is that our military and all the troops that obey their orders are nothing more than well financed uniformed terrorists and thieves. No I don't hate "America", but what I do hate is the deluded outlook that the general public has of the world and their place in it. "We the People" are as responsible as the Bush cabal for sitting back and allowing it to continue, but we are so separated from reality that we continue to drive around with those damn yellow ribbons and bumper stickers announcing our support for the "troops". The only difference between the U.S. military and Al Quida is we have murdered millions more in the past 40 years and continue to lie to ourselves because being honest would crush what little pride is left of our country and the true goals of it's foriegn policy. Heads firmly planted in the sand and repeating what in you hearts
What millions have we murdered? I challenge your words. If you choose to say that our actions have contributed to the deaths of millions, then I can accept that, what with global politics and all. But the US has NOT murdered millions, or even hundreds of thousands. Prove your words. History, not speculation! Semper fi
Tell that to the 3 million dead we left behind in Vietnam. Should we count the deaths of close to 50% of the population of Cambodia we enabled with another of our "allies"? Damn right we should. Come to Costa Rica and I'll drive you down to the mass graves of 8000 U.S. "troops" bulldozed into trenches in Panama while the government and "news" media tell you of "only" several hundred dead civilians despite everyone but the killers knowing different. We bulldozed and burried alive Iraqi conscripts to "get over Vietnam" we're told and you Semper fi me? Semper fi yourself and hide from the truth. I live in Central America and it's littered with the graves of thousands of your victims, I have more than one friend that has lost a relative or friend stepping on a Contra planted antipersonal mine, manufactured somewhere near where you call home as recently as two years ago, leftover souvineers the U.S. leaves behind as "good will" reminders of who's the Boss Hog. This damn blog keeps cutting this down to fit their word limit but I'd love to be able to finish. I am trying to hold no animus towards you and only ask you do the same for me. Spend the time and energy to dare to know. You have been effectivly brainwashed and can't be held totally responsible for the blood on your hands, but it is still there weather or not you can see it.
I would challenge your understanding of what terrorism is. We do not seek to rack up body counts. We do not target civilians and especially not women and children. We do not perpetrate the violence we do for the purpose of compelling the populace to pressure their governments to conceede to demands. Our job is violent. When it you boil it down it is to kill people and to break things. But it is done in defense of those who cannot defend themselves or to destroy those who would destroy others. Might sound like high ideal and patriotic claptrap, but it's a view throughte prism of experience of two deployments overseas and one to New Orelans. Idealism, sure, but tempered by experience.
How much more tragic to have "Null and Void" figuratively stamped across 4000+ 201 files. That'll be the virtual result if we are forced to leave before our job is finished. I'm not prepred to have my meager sacrifices invalidated, and I'll fight tooth and nail to prevent that happening to friends who gave far more and can no defend their own honor.
Body counts cannot be used as a sign of progress or a lack of progress. They are indicative only of numbers of killed.
Then why hide the real numbers soldier?
You'll have to prove to me that they've been hidden.
It is not my intention to argue with someone who has served honorably and holds his opinions honestly. Read my earlier post , if the numbers are not hidden they have, at the very least, been obscured or misrepresented. Why?
It is far more than 4,000 since those that are not actually dead on the ground in Iraq from their wounds are not counted if they should wait until they are out of sight or on a plane or die in a hospital outside of Iraq. I suppose you could count the coffins delivered in the dead of night to Delaware and then offloaded after everyone else has departed the area like dropping off so much garbage that you don't want to be seen while others clean the plane..... and then it's is up to the family to pay the transport to home. Oh wait... it's been made illegal to be around while bodies are offloaded so you can't count them. I don't think even the Nazi's treated their fallen soldiers as badly. Welcome home whoever you are, this administration just does not care about you much less your families.
That's repeated often, but not true.
Absolutely right, RTO. It is not true, but a happy myth of the anti-soldiers.
What shouldn't be ignored is the staggering number of injured soldiers coming home. Not all are amputees or wheelchair bound, many have serious brain injuries. More so than Vietnam or Korea. Is the VA set up to care for brain injured soldiers over the course of the next 50 years. They may be set up for amputees, but for the staggering number of brain injured soldiers.
4000 killed in Iraq. The totally misleading misrepresentation here is; "in Iraq". The propaganda use of this little linguistic slight of hand obscures the reality of all those who have died in hospital in Germany, or at home, or in any other location other than in country, "in Iraq". Even those who die in transit to out of country medical facilities are excluded from the "official" tally. What is the REAL total?
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/castop.htm There's a number of breakouts available for analysis. Make up your own mind.
Hundreds of the wounded have died since leaving the battlefield. They have died in transit to Gerrmany and on also on their way to the states. Many have died after arriving in the states. Add these to the count. It is 4400 hundred and climbing. Bush and Cheney designed a battle plan and after plan to seem like a movie without the war at home being no more than a seat in the theater. " Go shopping, have fun. we will take care of the troops and the oil and the billions we can skim. Leave it to us to decide what works and doesn't work." After five years count the losses... it is not a game. They shut us out. But, we will survive and make them pay for the deceit and the dead and wounded.
"Hundreds of the wounded have died since leaving the battlefield. They have died in transit to Gerrmany and on also on their way to the states. Many have died after arriving in the states. Add these to the count. It is 4400 hundred and climbing." What is your source for this information?
Use your common sense, there have to be severely wounded who did not die "in country" but died shortly afterward elsewhere.
The 4,000 "milestone" is a misleading tip of the iceberg. Pro-war types like to point out this is less than 10% of our losses in Vietnam, but the figure itself is very misleading, assuming it's even accurate. First, this is the first war to be largely outsourced and civilian Americans are not counted. Surely their count must be approaching 1,000 by now. Second, this is the first war that we can keep large numbers (25,000 so far?) soldiers alive because of emergency medical technologies -- soldiers who would have died in earlier wars live on but under the most horrendous conditions. These wounds never heal and their lives are sometimes death-in-life. Third, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, millions of Iraqi refugees. The emotional and financial costs of this war will go on far longer than its predecessors, crippling America's economy. And all for what? End this stupid war, ASAP.
Posted March 24, 2008 | 09:46 AM (EST)