Jon Soltz

Jon Soltz

Posted: March 17, 2010 11:48 AM

Don't Ask, Don't Tell Not A Big Deal, Poll of Iraq and Afghan Vets Finds

What's Your Reaction:

For many of us who served in Iraq or Afghanistan, the hyperbolic rhetoric from those opposed to a repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is somewhat amusing. Listen to Senator John McCain or Elaine Donnelly, head of the right-wing Center for Military Readiness, and you'd think allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would trigger mass rioting in the military. To this point, those opposed have hung their hat on a survey of Military Times readers, which showed an even split on the issue (though the trend over the years has tilted towards favoring a repeal). The survey they rely on was unscientific, to say the least, because it relied fully on subscribers, who tend to be older than the military, and mostly officers. But, it was almost all anyone had to go on.

That changes today.

A new poll -- a scientific poll -- conducted jointly by Republican and Democratic pollsters of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans shows that today's military is extremely comfortable around gay and lesbian Americans, believes their sexual orientation has no effect on their ability to do a job in the military, and would overwhelmingly accept a decision to allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military.

It's a point, I should note, that even General Petraeus seemed to indicate that he knew to be the case, as well, testifying in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday.

The poll, conducted by Lake Research Partners (Democratic) and American Viewpoint (Republican) for the non-partisan Vet Voice Foundation, found that 73% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans would find a repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy acceptable, with younger veterans (under age 35) showing even more acceptance (77%).

At the same time, more than seven in ten Iraq and Afghanistan veterans (73%) are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians, while hardly anyone said they were very uncomfortable (7%). Overall, 60% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans agree that sexual orientation has no bearing on one's ability to perform their duties, including 42% who strongly agree. Two-thirds of those veterans under age 35 agree (66%) with that statement, including almost half (47%) who strongly agree.

As the pollsters write in their memo on the poll findings, "Any notion that ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell would disrupt the military or that service members would be unwilling to meet the change is debunked."

That much is very true. Back to people like Senator McCain and Elaine Donnelly, it always amused me that by saying a repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell would disrupt the military, they were implicitly saying that service members couldn't or wouldn't handle the change -- that they weren't professional. In making their case, they're actually insulting the members of our Armed Forces.

This poll proves what we all know to be true -- our military is the most professional organization that the world has ever known. Those who wear the uniform can handle change. And, in this case, not only will service members abide by a repeal, but they'll largely accept it and move on to the task at hand.

While politicians go nuts and toss around heated words on Don't Ask, Don't Tell, those in our military are essentially saying of a repeal, "Fine. Who cares?"

 

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Scent   03:19 AM on 3/19/2010
This shows one thing we ALL know very well anyway:

Our government makes rules that have little or nothing to do with what the people want.

Now - what are we calling such government again? Democracy?

Ha.

If not to say: ha ha

In a democracy the leaders we vote for execute the will of the people as a whole. A consensus if You will. They can make unpopular decisions when needed to get something important done many people do not realize is good for them. But THAT is their main goal: to make the lives of the people better.

Does it make our lives better to despise a minority for reason of sexual orientation? - On the contrary. Our lives are diminished with every part of the people not sharing it.

Gays love one another. Our politicians sow dissent and hatred.

You do not need to know more than that to know what part of our lives we want to get rid of.

Hint: it is not boys kissing one another.
guilatty   10:20 AM on 3/18/2010
Lead, follow, or get out of the way, Senator McCain. It is now abundantly clear that option 3 is the one for you. The world has passed you by as it has so many of your contemporaries. My mother used to tell me around every election cycle--" I'm not voting for some old man-what the hell does he know about the future?" She used to say this well into her 80's. She knew what she was talking about.
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Jeffrey Marks   06:54 AM on 3/18/2010
One of the things I find is that the older generation (read: politicians and higher ranking officers) feels that the younger generation shares their values on all things. Therefore, that's why we frequently see slow change in the military and government for things that the American people in general have already accepted. Over 80% of the nation feels that the GLBT population should not be fired for being gay; however, we have yet to see ENDA. As McCain and his ilk get old and die, the resistance against such legislation will quickly change. After all, his much younger wife is in favor of gay rights, as is his daughter.
mamacat   04:35 AM on 3/18/2010
There was plenty of homosexual behavior in the military during my time in the service. If anything, I think that the ability to be open about it would have improved morale, not hurt it.
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Tom Lockwood   03:52 AM on 3/18/2010
Your point is true but irrelevant. It doesn't matter what any opinion poll of the troups shows, the brass isn't ready to support the integration of openly gay troups, congress isn't ready to vote on the issue, and the President isn't ready to stand behind his promises relating to the repeal of DADT. They all have more important things to do, and always will have. So, instead of a repeal, we have a study, and the time we spend on the study is time opponents of the repeal can spend on a new poll that will return the results they're looking for.

In November of 2008, I was hopeful that the Dems would actually make progress on this issue. Clearly they have no interest or intention of doing so. While that saddens me, it doesn't surprise me. It only means that I needn't take time away from my busy life to become acquainted with the issues and candidates associated with the 2010 election cycle. Democrat = Republican. One party is openly hostile to gay issues, and one is openly indifferent. I can't, in good conscience, vote for either.
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SiberianRat   03:29 AM on 3/18/2010
Yeah, I'm sure that most soldiers would rather do more and more tours of duty than have some open homo soldiers who are just as patriotic as they are. Honestly, are were growing up anytime soon?
Tkevan   01:15 AM on 3/18/2010
I'm curious as to whether this poll was predominately Guard and Reserve or Active Duty, current Active Duty, or no longer serving?
ron46032   02:46 AM on 3/18/2010
The majority were either out or reserves. Only 1/3 were active. Also the majority were in the Army. The Marines and Navy represented a very small percentage.
Life is Short   12:24 AM on 3/18/2010
Over a lifetime as a US military dependent, veteran, and senior civilian human resources administrator working directly with reserve components, my clear observation is that day-to-day shared dedication to mission and oath is overwhelmingly accepted as the foundation of respect and defines professional and social relationships within the military. Imposing/maintaining an external requirement that unit commanders and/or supervisors to take disparate, discriminatory personnel actions based upon any other criteria, including sexual orientation, undermines mission effectiveness in its own right, and implicitly sanctions a culture of favoritism, further undermining the capability of the organization.
Wolf V   09:40 PM on 3/17/2010
In a combat zone the incongruous sexual proclivities of another soldier is given little thought and is usually of little import. But in training recruits stateside who are forced to share close quarters and latrine facilities 24/7/365 with open homosexuals, the homosexual-straight mix will never work long term. Retention and enlistments will drop dangerously and a nonexempt draft will be necessary. Then there's the unintended consequence of bitter, disgruntled draftees who will blame their plight on the very same open homosexuals who are now sharing closing quarters with them round-the-clock.

The hetero draftees sent into combat will believe they're there not to fight the enemy but so that a sexual minority can openly profess its incongruous sexual proclivities. When the body bags start piling up the entire situation will begin to deterioriate.
sandpiper1   10:08 PM on 3/17/2010
Your argument makes no sense unless 'straight' American men are hung up on their own sexuality.
Our Canadian military does not have a problem serving with gay/lesbian members of the military, neither does England and other countries' military personnel. You Americans need to get off the soap box. The idea that a gay/lesbian soldier is going to find every heterosexual male/female in their unit attractive and wants a relationship with them is such nonsense.
BTW, I'm a heterosexual female.
Tkevan   01:12 AM on 3/18/2010
So, you would have no problem sharing sleeping quarters with a heterosexual male?
ron46032   02:39 AM on 3/18/2010
The problem is that blanket parties will become the norm for homosexuals.
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LawTalkingGuy   05:14 PM on 3/21/2010
totally ignorant comment.
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Geoffreys   04:32 AM on 3/18/2010
Are you suggesting that straight men have such delicate self-images and are so sensitive about their own sexuality that they cannot live with a homosexual? That's ridiculous. Straight men and gay men live together in close quarters within the military, within campus dormrooms, within urban apartments today.

As a gay person, it is not my responsibility to manage your sexual insecurities.
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LawTalkingGuy   05:17 PM on 3/21/2010
You're right Geoffreys. I guess it will take a long time,.. then again, you would have been forgiven for believing in the 70's that racial equality was coming soon too.

As a specific example that may amuse you, in college I had four friends sharing a flat, two of whom were gay. We called the house (which was rather large for our standards) "the 51% gay mansion", on the presumption that "all guys are at least 1% gay" so even though it was an even split, the house tipped gay. Anyway, we may still be in the minority but there are plenty of straight guys who don't need you to manage our sexual insecurities!
DinkSinger   08:21 PM on 3/17/2010
I don't agree. The reason for the totally unnecessary year long study is the inertia of the military leaders not the politicians. A recent Quinnipiac poll found only 52% of REPUBLICANS nationwide oppose the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

The study is totally unnecessary because RAND did a similar study for the Clinton administration back in 1993. We are currently paying them to do the same study again. Certainly the changes in attitudes about homosexuality over the last 17 years have made eliminating discrimination in the military much easier.

I expect that DADT will be repealed before the election. S. 3065 introduced on March 3 has 25 cosponsors. The only problem with the bill is it does not prohibit discrimination against transgender people.
DinkSinger   11:22 AM on 3/18/2010
Sorry, this was a reply to another comment and I posted it in the wrong place.
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Geoffreys   07:59 PM on 3/17/2010
It seems to me that most people wringing their hands over how military men and women will react haven't been around that many young people recently. By no means every one, but overall, twentysomethings don't seem to care about one's race or orientation the way we older people do.

They'll be fine.
MSGH   07:43 PM on 3/17/2010
Back in the 40's, we were told that white service members would not serve with black ones. Funny thing, maybe our service members are not as bigoted as those who claim to speak for them.
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LawTalkingGuy   03:49 PM on 3/18/2010
And way back in the 80's we were still told the same thing about women. Most professional armies have them now and things haven't fallen apart! I'm always surprised more people don't view this as a progression and realize they are on the wrong side, even if blacks/women/gays/whatevers make them uncomfortable they would realize that they should be embarrassed about it and keep their mouths shut.
bluegardenia   07:31 PM on 3/17/2010
It's about damn time. I won't repeat what has already been spoken here but I agree...regardless of your feelings about what the military does or doesn't do. Can the military be improved when it comes to racism and sexism of course it can....but getting rid of the DADT is a start. Let's do the same with Prop 8.
DinkSinger   06:52 PM on 3/17/2010
The Military Times survey "was almost all anyone had to go on. That changes today."

We did have the October 2006 Zogby poll of "545 U.S. Military Personnel who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan (or in combat support roles directly supporting those operations)". Zogby observed the exact same result as the Lake Research/American Perspectives poll announced today, that 73% of military personnel who have served in the current wars feel comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians.

One of Zogby's most interesting results was that of the 23% of service members who said they knew for certain they were (or had been) serving in a unit with gay or lesbian comrades, 72% said it had no or a positive impact on their personal moral and 67% said it had no or a positive impact on their units morale.
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Terry Mcintyre   06:48 PM on 3/17/2010
Southern California has several large chapters of the Log Cabin Republicans. ( If you're one of those progressives who can't imagine a gay Republican, please control yourself ). A very large number - perhaps 80% - are ex-military. It's rather hard to pretend that there have never been gays in the military when standing in a room with a few hundred gay ex-military men and women. Where did they come from?

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