On What the Troops Want

Yesterday, a number of Senators showed themselves too afraid to support the troops. Despite the fact that the military is overextended, the minority in the Senate again derailed efforts to give the troops the help that they need. More amazingly, when presented with a non-binding, toothless resolution that voiced support for the "Dwell Time Amendment," they voted for it - showing they are willing to pay the troops lip service, but won't stand up for them. Senators Warner, Murkowski, Specter, Alexander, Dole and Voinovich, especially, chickened out when the troops needed them the most.

The debate over the Webb-Hagel amendment was fast and fierce. VoteVets.org brought forty veterans to Capitol Hill to push for the bill, while the White House dispatched staff from the Joint Chiefs to lobby against it. Senators from both sides held press conferences and stake outs.

Amazingly, the one detail that we at VoteVets.org consistently tried to push, and not one media outlet picked up on, was what the troops think.

At the end of last year, before the surge and before rotations were extended to 15 months from 12 for the Army, the Military Times papers released a poll of troops which showed that nearly three-quarters of the troops said that because of President Bush, "today's military is stretched too thin to be effective." (You can find a link to that poll and many other stories and polls detailing what troops want at our "Did You Get The Memo" page at VoteVets.org)

While every poll of troops has showed the majority of them feel that things are not going well in Iraq - from Zogby International to the New York Times/CBS - the three-quarters threshold is higher than almost any other finding. Meaning, of all the criticisms of the war by troops, overextension seems to be the number one issue for them.

Yet, where was this reported in the media?

It's frustrating, because in this particular debate, it was so clear that one side was pro-troops and one side was anti-troops. Yet, in their efforts to try to present a "fair and balanced" story, the media lost sight of the fact that on this issue there is really no debate among the troops. They are overextended and are saying so. It's not just because troops want to come home and rest. Troops are saying that they are too overextended to be effective. They are telling America that this is a matter of our national security; that they don't think they can meet our global commitments or destroy al Qaeda in Afghanistan, let alone lock down all the violence in Iraq.

On Hardball, Chris Matthews actually did raise the point, and he deserves a lot of credit. He asked Pete Hegseth, of Vets for Freedom, how he can say he's speaking for the troops and oppose the Webb Amendment. I very much like Pete Hegseth, and off camera we've become pretty friendly. I respect his service, and I think he's a very effective representative for his side of the argument. But, Pete had no answer for Matthews, essentially admitting that on this debate, the troops speak with nearly one voice, and it's in line with Senators Webb and Hagel.

I understand the pressure reporters and editors feel, especially when they are constantly attacked for being the "liberal media." But on some issues, like this one, the numbers don't lie. And, in trying to present an even debate, the media lost sight of the most important fact of all - what do the troops want?

Follow Jon Soltz on Twitter: www.twitter.com/jonsoltz

Comments

[IMORPHEUS]

The 3 on that list that really stand out, are LUGAR...VOINIVICH AND WARNER.

They've been complaining about the policy in Iraq, but then vote to continue to support it. And now this act, which is really a display of contempt for the sacrifice these men and women, and their families, have been making.

These 3 schmucks have been playing a little dumbass game of double-dutch, and they don't know on which side of the rope to land!
Our service men and women, deserve so much better, than this bullshit.

LIEBERMAN..hell, he's ready to nuke Iran, that fanatic. I wish he would just take his dual-citizenship and set up shop, in Tel Aviv.

[wsblake]

The only segment of our rotten,corrupted society that can end this thing is the military itself. We have no legitimate congress so officially the people are not represented- nor do we have a legitimate press- which is the true hallmark of a democracy. If the troops want this over they will have to do it. Read your history. It was not the demonstrations that ended Vietnam. It was the troops -in huge numbers- refusing to fight.

[UltraClassic]

Jon, you are a good man, and I read your comments as often as possible. You are the real deal unlike many other Huffington posters who parrot far left talking points.

But Jon, whether it is your Army or my Marine Corps, I think you will admit that we don't set policy, deployment rotation and missions based on polls from the troops. If you want to know just how screwed up things are, poll a bunch of PFCs and LCpls. Frankly, if my non-rates were not sittin around bitchin, I'd be concerned for their health (that's a joke).

If you would have polled me while I was on active duty, I likely would have said the same thing, "the food sucks, it's hot and dirty, I don't like getting shot at, I've been here too long and I want to go home."

We have a saying in the Corps. U. S. M. C. It stands for "U Signed the M*thrf*ckn Contract." So stop your whining, get off your *ss, pack your trash and move out.

It's funny, that always seemed to get a grin or maybe a smirk, but it almost always worked. That's why I'll always love my Marines.

Semper Fi, UltraClassic sends

[aznurse]

I read somewhere that when Senator Webb was at a dinner with his assistant who had been with him in Viet Nam, His friend was congratulating him in a speech and Webb said "Anybody can be a senator, but not everyone can be a Marine" I really like that guy.

[WaterRat]

Pulling the troops out, or, giving them a well deserved break isn't in the hearts of those republicans.
Hearts? More like stones.
How can a man or woman stand up this United States Senate and speak from the heart, when the beat comes from their pocket book?
Collins, Graham, McCain et al have no shame.
After 15 months in a sweltering desert fighting the Bush War, the men and women in khaki are more deserving of this than what they have to suffer 24 hours a day.
Instead of the Green Zone, they should all get a dose of the house to house combat, try to nap in the heat, dodge the IEDs, and ride the Humvees into downtown Baghdad.

[Aramingo]

Hmmm.

The ones who love us best are the ones we'll lay to rest
And visit their graves on holidays at best

The ones who love us least are the ones we'll die to please
If it's any consolation, I don't begin to understand them

[outnow]

The troops are pawns that are sacrificed by the ruling class. America is not a fledgling country fight mean ole England.

Corporate America has its boot on everyone's neck around the world and is turning more fascist every day.

Do the troops support the U.S. Constitution and respect the sovereignty of other nations under recognized International Law? If not, then the oath they have taken is to BushCo and not the country that I love and for which my ancestors died for over almost four centuries.

Let BushCo pay the troops the going rate for mercenaries and pass it along to the consumer in terms of the real price of oil. Give the troops $150,000 per year with benefits and place them under the command of Halliburton or KBR. That is the extent of the unfortunate situation when resource wars are fought on behalf of large multi-national corporations.

In Rome, fathers would cut off their sons' thumbs on the right hand so that they could not be forced to fight wars of plunder and aggression. I support the troops and the U>S> Constitution, not multi-national corporate interests or illegal wars. These guys are signing up - not being drafted because the day the draft is re-enacted, the war is over.

[win2kpro]

EVERY progressive website or blog should be posting the list of chickenshit senators who voted against the Webb/Hagel amendment.

People who reside in a State where their Senator or Senators voted against this amendment should distribute the list to all military personel, family and friends, as well as writing letters to the editors of their local newspapers to put the spotlight on these bastards as much as possible.

Every one of the Senators who voted against this bill should never again have the nerve to say they support the troops.

NAYs ---44
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA

[lisakaz]

This isn't a big surprise. The GOP senators and the MSM have almost exclusively been cowed by this Bu$hit that being vs. the president is somehow disloyal and they seem incapable of shaking it, despite the fact that it entirely without merit. Even Edmund Burke believed in a fervent opposition to keep corruption at bay.

It is probably under-reported as per those AP headlines that the so-called proposed drawn down of Bu$h has nothing to do with success: he simply cannot sustain the numbers. The idiots who think that there should be an increase of soldiers in Iraq (a small number but still a number) clearly cannot grasp this fact.

I hope that 75% remembers this vote when they next are able to vote, if they aren't returned to America in a bag.

[LizM]

Do the troops also agree that their civilian leaders and Congress should start, at long last, doing something TO PROMOTE the POLITICAL SOLUTION in Iraq that everyone agrees is the only way out of the tragic mess that is Iraq?

[steven]

How about a republican brigade "The Bungleers" or "The Shopping Brigade".

All the continued abuse of kids who serve our once great country is driving me nuts...

[devildog21]

Jon,

I really enjoy your posts and you are spot on every time I read you. If you have one issue, it's having any respect for Mr. Hegseth. He is nothing more than a Republican mouthpiece. If he is so convinced of the virtue of this occupation, why isn't he still in uniform?

The first rule of combat is enemy recognition. Make no mistake, this man is an enemy of our Marines and soldiers while he argues oh behalf of the bushies.

[USAisOK]

FLAME THROWING, if you actually listened to the debate (I BET YOU DIDN'T Jon), there was much thoughtful discourse from BOTH sides.THE AMENDMENT WAS NOT practical. However, I believe if CONGRESS works with the PENTAGON (who should be making these decisions anyway, you should know that) a solution will be crafted. I have spoken with many soldiers currently deployed on returned trips and THEY do not share your view. Your are entitled to it to be sure, everyone would rather have them home ofcourse. Let the professionals manage the soldiers. Thx!

[IMD]

Under our constitution, Congress can indeed set the rules for how long troops can be deployed, and should. If it were left solely to the Pentagon, no one would ever be able to leave. Logically, as the troops lose their energy and will, how effective will they be if they stay? What would they come home to? Divorce, bankruptcy, years spent dealing with trauma. At this point the Army is so drained they will have to start recruiting from prisons unless they call for a draft.

[leftcoastindy]

You're talking to the wrong person. You need to tell Chimpy to "Let the professionals manage the soldiers". Suggesting Dem politicians are the problem, while our troops and Iraqi children are dying in the streets is obsurd.

Flame throwing?

[kellygrrrl]

Chimpy cannot "let the professionals manage the soldiers" because Dicktator Cheney won't allow it.

[HalDonahue]

USAisOK oh no all the Pentagon has to do is maintain and equip the troops instead the Pentagon and the Bush regime are bent on disarming the troops while removing services and healthcare from the troops and their families to save money. Nice the troops and their families get to not only pay in time and blood they get to pay by surrendering services to pay for the war. PRACTICAL???? Saying this is the challenge of a generation and doing NOTHING but using the troops you were given is neither practical nor honest. Let's let an outside agency poll the troops not that it really matters the Regime and the rightwingers could care less about them.

[SilverBurlap]

What a viewpoint!

The Pentagon "should be making these decisions anyway"? - Are you nuts? So what your saying is that we empower the Bureaucracy and Executive branch even more, as if their abuse of their power hasn't gotten us into enough trouble.

Its funny though how we cannot even agree on content of the same debate. You say you saw one thing and Jon says he saw another. The fact of the matter is the troops, like us, have differing viewpoints on the war. A lot of them like our current policy and a lot of them wonder why they are over there. All the bill was going to do was give them more time out of harms way, a decision I'm sure many of them would have no problem with regardless of their politics.

Remember, troops are loyal. They follow orders and they respect any decision given to them by their commanders. Not because they agree or disagree. Because it is their job to. This bill was a change in order keeping THEM safer.

[USAisOK]

I couldn't agree more with you, honestly. I believe such a soltuion will come, however I believe we should rely on the professionals at the Pentagon on WHEN they can implement. That is all I am saying, and I KNOW I am right. They would not stall on such a thing, I am certain they will find a way if givem the proper latitude. Thanks for your post and obvious support of our troops. BTW, I wish more 'posters' whom claim to SUPPORT the troops would STOP calling them murderers. Not a sermon just a point.

[Arleang]

Hold on a minute USAisOk . . . Congress and the Pentagon do not get to work this out!!! To begin with, Congress should be taking orders from the electorate and funding only what the electorate is willing to pay for. The majority of Americans do not want to spend more blood (ours or Iraqi) on this damned war.

If you can get beyond the blood, consider that we have 169,000 military, 180,000 contractors in Iraq now. We can't continue spending this amount of money on dreams of the neocons.

The Congress and Pentago absolutely should not craft a solution that is divorced from the reality that WE NEED TO GET OUT OF IRAQ!!!!

[kellygrrrl]

I think it's high time the American people start to hear and see exactly what the troops are experiencing.
General Wesley Clark continues to make the point that Bu$h has not asked the American people (outside of the military families) to sacrifice at all for this war.
If we were honestly exposed to the reality, we would all be marching in the streets daily and hounding our Reps to do their job or lose their job.

[Sundialsvc4]

The solution that is being planned, but not yet announced to the public, is clear from "The National Service Act of 2007," which is already in the House.

Under this bill, every "person" from age 18 to 42 can be conscripted into "national service" or put into the armed forces, at the President's whim. There are no deferments: you can finish your semester, that's it.

So if you're a twentysomething or a thirtysomething or even a fortysomething, or a female of any age, and you've been looking at this thing "academically," it just might be time to start figuring out what size of boots you'll wear and just how many hand-grenades you can carry at one time.

If you' (whoever you are) have been looking at this thing as someone who does not want war, looking for the savior to appear in the halls of Congress (or what have you) who ALSO does not want war, I suggest that you stop being so being so damned naiive. Wake up and smell the flowers because those flowers are blooming "in Flander's Fields, Row on Row" and somewhere out there is a flat piece of stone with your name and rank inscribed on it.

Why does this war continue? Because Congress earnestly wants it. Because a well-entrenched group of criminals in all three Branches of government (at the same time) is "making a killing" from killing...

You.

[JimR]

I think a draft may actually have benefits. Once they realize it's their butts that might be shipped to Iraq, it might snap a lot of Americans out of their collective apathy and put pressure on Congress to end this war.

[prochange]

Amen

[hopeless277]

My favorite Republican talking point is the one in which they say that we must stay in Iraq to 'honor the fallen'. Let me put it another way:

More must die so that those who have died will not have died in vain.

If you take it to the logical conclusion then all soldiers must die or else those that have died will have died in vain.

Republicans make me sick.

[prochange]

Support the troops until they are all dead.

What it is about this country that makes everybody follow anything created by advertising agencies like it is the word of God?

The greatest nation on earth with deeply Christian values. The reality is that this is the nation which spends the most money of anyone in the world on war. Millions of homeless, poor and uninsured people are ignored; the real god of this nation is money. The ten commandments are only applied to the poor as a tool of control and oppression , the rich have always completely and totally ignored them.

The masses were told by the corporations to eat fast food and drink sodas until they were all obese. Now they are spending billions on diets and plastic surgery while still eating fast food and drinking sodas, because they are told to do so.

They were also told to buy the biggest cars and use energy in their homes and offices like there were unlimited resources. Now that gas and utilities bills are going up and up and consequently everything gets more expensive, they are still buying huge cars and huge houses, because they are told so.

There must be a death wish of a whole nation. There is certainly not much brain activity. I am sure Bush would get elected a third time if he could run.