Petraeus Says U.S. Violated Geneva Conventions - What Will Cheney and Rush Say?

A couple of days ago, I chronicled the quickening departure of some big military names from the Republican party, those concerned about the party moving even farther to the right a number of issues, including torture. What struck me at the time is that General David Petraeus came out against torture and for closing Guantanamo.

I was stunned, however, when he admitted today that the United States has violated the Geneva Conventions. Without saying specifically how we did (though it doesn't take much imagination to figure it out), Petraeus said on FOX News:

Question: So is sending this signal that we're not going to use these kind of techniques anymore, what kind of impact does this have on people who do us harm in the field that you operate in?

Gen. Petraeus: Well, actually what I would ask is, "Does that not take away from our enemies a tool which again have beaten us around the head and shoulders in the court of public opinion?" When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think it's important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those.

This fits in very well with an explosive new video put out by VoteVets.org today, in which Jay Bagwell, who worked in counterintelligence in Afghanistan not only argues against torture, but says that detainees were brought in who had pamphlets portraying Guantanamo in them.

One has to wonder what Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, and their crowd will say to this? In the past, General Petraeus could do and say no wrong. Now, he is not only saying torture does not work, but is saying that what the right fringe believes are only "enhanced techniques" violated international law.

As Jay Bagwell in our video says so well, "The Unites States can't be a beacon of freedom and human rights and the value of law while we ignore international law."

Now, we can say without a doubt that General David Petraeus agrees.

Mr. Cheney? Rush? What do you say to that?

Comments

[RustyNeverSleeps]

rat jumping ship

[TonyOnly]

If we can't defeat terrorism without acting like terrorists, then what makes us better than they are?

[Democrab]

They will say what they always say; "We found weapons of mass destruction, the earth is about 2000 years old, we saved thousands of lives, slavery wasn't all that bad and women didn't really need to vote."

[markhas]

Your right "Women don't need to vote" they need to be home taking care of children.

[beckpod1]

Chickenhawks with golden microphones VS. Real war warriors with blood-stained bullets...­..
If I watched Fox News.....I wouldn't know the difference!
If I listened to Rush....I would know the difference­...and be totally wrong!!!!!
If I listen to the former Vice President.­....I would really learn to hate the America he stands for...and would revolt!!!!

[Cyberoptic]

beckpod1 writes, "If I listen to the former Vice President.­....I would really learn to hate the America he stands for...and would revolt!!!!"

The problem is that the America Cheney stands for is in partial existence, thanks to the previous administration. Out in the world, Cheney's policies and actions have taken form. Other nations see us morphing from what we were into Cheney's type of nation. Now we have the chance to turn it back, or let it continue in Cheney's way.

If it continues in Cheney's way, perhaps other nations and other peoples who now support us, "would really learn to hate the America he stands for...and would revolt!!!!""

[FilthyHarry]

This is not a big deal and not news. All Petraeus has to do is say he was referring to the Abu Ghraib, the abuses there, the investigation, and convictions of some people and its a non-story.

[gnorrfa]

it's a much bigger deal and important news and was not confined to abu ghraib and it concerns the executive branch and gwbush, cheney and rumsfeld as the main instigators. you're trying to kick it under the rug.

[Marilynleigh34]

gnorrfa
Dream on.

[ssg13565]

I agree that Petraeus's statement is ambiguous enough to be interpreted the way you describe.

FilthyHarry and I are not saying this is actually the only violation. We are saying that one could rightfully interpret Petraeus' remarks as only covering Abu Ghraib if one were of a mind to interpret it that way.

Thus this statement of Petraeus' is not as definitive as some of us would have liked it to be.

[springsm]

What was more stunning Jon, is that Pratreaus knew this and never said a thing until now when it is advantageous to do so. So being political at that level is not very becoming nor does it build trust and faith in the big officers in the field or not in the field. Thank you for your comments.

[frantaylor]

Do you remember the famous "nobody ever asked me" moment from Watergate?

[VictoriaP]

i feel the same way. how could so many high level persons come out so adamantly against the torture and not take the same stand at the time that the torture was initiated. of course, many of them would say that the information was classified but i just don't accept that so few people who KNEW what was going on just went along with the program.

[NoFactsJustTruth]

It's not such a distant few years ago, Jon, when many of us early recognized the War Crimes (and scapegoats) for what they were, and everyone's fear regarding the calls for investigation was reinforced by an Attorney General and DOJ that selectively enforced the Rule of Law. I'm hoping we see a different DOJ next year, after Health Care reform is passed, and that a green light is then eventually given to see where the facts may lead investigators.

As an honorably discharged veteran of some 30 years ago, I still remember the oath I took to protect and defend the Constitution from ALL enemies foreign and domestic. It's only struck me the last 6 or 7 years though, Jon, just how many folks say those words - yet have never actually 'taken the oath' ...in their heart.

[beartrack]

Wasn't sure at first about the good General but, it's looking like he is a stand up guy after all. Now that his boss is a stand up guy, the General can tell it like it is. Thank you Sir.

[springsm]

He knew it and let it happen. Political animal that he is wants to please the President so that he can remain a General. He is very late in saying this.

[Christopher Clasby]

This whole thing makes me sad. :(

[BFactor]

At 2am this morning I saw a documentary that shook me to the core. I sent the President this email (parts are edited out):

Around 2am I watched Sherry Jones’ documentary “Torturing Democracy”.

I wept for a half hour or more and I’m still shaken by what I saw and heard. There is no defense … no defense for what we did at Bagram, Abu Ghraib, Thailand, Guantanamo Bay, and other secret torture prisons. My God!

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, John Yoo, Condoleezza Rice, Alberto Gonzales, and whoever else gave the approval for these Godless Acts, ...must be prosecuted for war crimes.

No wonder we were despised. No wonder we are still despised by many in the Middle East, etc.; and the media allows a war criminal to speak lies with impunity? ...

And you have the nerve to say to the American people that you will continue to hold suspects (where there is no evidence, only the word of the CIA who operated under a “golden shield”). Pictures have been destroyed, documents destroyed … so as not to reveal the true horror that went on. ...

........We invaded Iraq and we rounded up people there and in Afghanistan (some, perhaps many innocent) and tortured them, killed them, detained them for years and in secret; ... My God! Never mind the innocent women and children and troops that have suffered and died for what we did.

I am so deeply ashamed for what we have done.

[VictoriaP]

i don't know if i can watch it, as i have wept from viewing the torture photos and reading the accounts of what was done to these people in our good names.

my stomach hurts and all (adults) americans should expose themselves to some aspect of this, so that we face the truth of what happend.

[gnorrfa]

despised? five or ten years doesn't begin to heal those wounds. despise is the appropriate tense.

[springsm]

It was an impressive and daming documentation. It also made me cry and get angry, cry and get angrier. I am wondering if we will ever be forgiven for this. And if we don't do something to get answers someone else should. Great letter. I wonder if they are ever read. He had better not keep "looking forward" with this on our backs. I would hope after he gets some of the crisises out of the way that something will be done. But then I know...the­re will always be another crisis.

[petef59]

Petraeus is an example of the best within our military. Educated and humble enough to work for differently affiliated party adminstrations, bear the political criticism of MoveON.org without becoming vindicitve and/or idelogically rigid, and now standing ground for the Geneva Conventions.

[dogwatch]

Answering "what will Mr. Ch... and Ru.... say to that?" They will continue to maintain their eloquent position of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Cyberoptic]

In Shakespeare's King Lear, a princess is confronted with evidence that she is complicit in a murder plot. Her reply is, "the laws are mine, not thine, who can arraign me for it?"

Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham was convicted of taking bribes while in office. He became so out of touch with the world around him that he even had his bribe schedule rates printed on his letterhead. The laws were his, who would arraign him for it.

Now, two of the formerly most powerful men in the world, a former president, and a former vice-president, have admitted to breaking U.S. and international laws. They are in effect saying, the laws are ours, who will arraign us for it? The question is, did they also become so out of touch with the world, or is the law theirs, and no one can arraign them for it?

We just elected a black man President of the United States of America. It was a shining moment for the nation, and for the world. The question the country now is deciding is any person above the laws?

It is our next great test of the nation. Will it also be a shining moment to us and the world?

[SpringDoc]

Well said Cyberoptic and Thank you Jon for your take on this issue.

[Punkynsnow]

Favorited. Excellent and eloquently state.

[dogwatch]

A kingly statement, Cyberoptic. If Shakespeare could only blog, methinks he would make a dupe of the Duke, and who knows what he would make of our recent king and his vice king.

[zakwouldhave]

This should be the top story everywhere. Good luck with this one Cheney/Rush. It is frightening to imagine the world view of chicken hawks like Cheney, compensating for their lack of courage in their war years, running a great country like they would run Halliburton, working in secrecy and deception and caring nothing for utilizing and creating allies. General Patreaus is a name you won't hear much longer from the neo-cons..­..and he must be glad of it.

[oldgeek1]

Rush and Cheney will say he is not a real republican.

[scottymac11]

If he is a republican maybe he will be a realistic one.

[dessertsfirst]

Cheney will say, Oh, is he a republican? I didn't know he was still a republican. Snark.