Petraeus Says U.S. Violated Geneva Conventions - What Will Cheney and Rush Say?

A couple of days ago, I chronicled the quickening departure of some big military names from the Republican party, those concerned about the party moving even farther to the right a number of issues, including torture. What struck me at the time is that General David Petraeus came out against torture and for closing Guantanamo.

I was stunned, however, when he admitted today that the United States has violated the Geneva Conventions. Without saying specifically how we did (though it doesn't take much imagination to figure it out), Petraeus said on FOX News:

Question: So is sending this signal that we're not going to use these kind of techniques anymore, what kind of impact does this have on people who do us harm in the field that you operate in?

Gen. Petraeus: Well, actually what I would ask is, "Does that not take away from our enemies a tool which again have beaten us around the head and shoulders in the court of public opinion?" When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think it's important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those.

This fits in very well with an explosive new video put out by VoteVets.org today, in which Jay Bagwell, who worked in counterintelligence in Afghanistan not only argues against torture, but says that detainees were brought in who had pamphlets portraying Guantanamo in them.

One has to wonder what Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, and their crowd will say to this? In the past, General Petraeus could do and say no wrong. Now, he is not only saying torture does not work, but is saying that what the right fringe believes are only "enhanced techniques" violated international law.

As Jay Bagwell in our video says so well, "The Unites States can't be a beacon of freedom and human rights and the value of law while we ignore international law."

Now, we can say without a doubt that General David Petraeus agrees.

Mr. Cheney? Rush? What do you say to that?

Comments

[Cyberoptic]

RRG64 writes "most of the detainees have not even been brought up on charges...­.how can anyone say they were actually terrorists­?....anyon­e"
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That's right, no charges. And when ANYONE thinks of someone being put in prison for life without any legal reasons, even being put in a prison without this type of torture, they will feel Sympathy.

What benefit is it to keep our soldiers, or our entire nation safe, if we create sympathy for those we hold without any proof, or charges, in prison until they die there??

If we could only step back and consider how we would feel if Americans were captured by another nation, and put in jail for life, just because the leaders of that country wanted to. And because they had the power to do it.

[RRG64]

You missed the entire point of my posts.

It is not to induce sympathy, more like outrage that the Cheney/Bus­h/Rumsfeld War Crime and Torture Brigade were not reigned in while they were blatantly
breaking US and International law.

this is not about the detainees, it is about the system that put them there.

'If we've been holding these guys for so long, how can we explain letting them get off?
We can't have acquittals. We've got to have conviction­s.'"

[RRG64]

and by the way some of those detainees certainly deserve our sympathy.
some of them are innocent..­..

[Cyberoptic]

Sorry I gave that impression. From your post I was pointing out that "the system that put them there" without any charges [as you made clear], was purportedly to keep us safe... that's Cheney and Co.'s claim.

What I was addressing was that "claim of safety." If the system that put them in prison was to keep us safe, Cheney and Co. are not factoring in the fact that they are creating sympathy for those captives, and arousing feelings Against our citizens and our nation.

I was adding to the discussion a point that I wanted supporters of Cheney's system to consider.

And I didn't want to add any points that would arouse a reaction from them so that they couldn't even read what I wrote.

[lovable]

MR STOLTZ cheney nor his daughter will not be asked about what petraus said, the media wants to keep this debate between obama and cheney . THIS IS BIG NEWS AND THE MEDIA WONT TOUCH IT!!!!!!!!

as for limbaugh he will just keep quite and not mention it. he hide behind a mic and only come out to appear on fox and they would never ask him.

[realpolitic]

Cheney and Rush will say that General Petraeus is working for the enemy!

[Bill64]

Maybe the general needs to turn in his stars, he certainly doesn't know or understand the Geneva Convention. Terroist didn't sign or abide by the document. I believe that Gitmo opened after ther majority of terroist attacks on this country. Maybe it is time the general hung up his uniform forever, he no longer speaks for true veterans.

[TrueBlue1112]

So Bill, those that do not condone torture are not "true" veterans to you?
Any veteran who gave his or her life for this country must be turning in their grave.

[RRG64]

most of the detainees have not even been brought up on charges...­.how can anyone say they were actually terrorists­?....anyon­e

[RRG64]

"[Haynes] said these trials will be the Nuremberg of our time," recalled Davis, referring to the Nazi tribunals in 1945, considered the model of procedural rights in the prosecution of war crimes.

In response, Davis said he noted that at Nuremberg there had been some acquittals, which had lent great credibility to the proceedings.

"I said to him that if we come up short and there are some acquittals in our cases, it will at least validate the process," Davis continued.

"At which point, [Haynes's] eyes got wide and he said, 'Wait a minute, we can't have acquittals.

If we've been holding these guys for so long, how can we explain letting them get off? We can't have acquittals. We've got to have conviction­s.'"

Davis submitted his resignation on October 4, 2007, just hours after he was informed that Haynes had been put above him in the commissions' chain of command. "Everyone has opinions," Davis says. "But when he was put above me, his opinions became orders."
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"The fact that [Haynes] said there can be no acquittals will stain the entire [tribunal] process," says Scott Horton, who teaches law at Columbia University Law School and has written extensively about Haynes's conflicts with the Judge Advocate General's (JAG) corps, the judicial arm of the armed forces, which is charged with implementing the military commissions.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080303/tuttle

They had nothing on most of the detainees, absolutely nothing.

[RRG64]

terroist didn't sign or abide by the document
----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­---------
your right, Cheney and Rumsfeld did not abide by the document.

[ObamAtomic]

If you served,you do not learn a thing.

[Gainsbourg69]

Bill Moyer had a documentary on torture last night. It's a must see. It was truly freightning.

[Gainsbourg69]

I really don't know what Obama is waiting for to push for prosecutions. This goes beyond partisan politics. Our country was damaged by these goons and they should be made an example for future goons thinking about whiping their butts with our laws and our constitution.

[FatherKindly]

Ditto.

[dwright]

All this dittoing and - how do you know he is not having them investigated through the proper channels? Like the DOJ? Obama knows how the media is and how they will distort and twist everything - I would keep everything on the DL until the DOJ is ready to subpoena.

[dst1]

Second

[freethinkergirl]

Double ditto.

Maybe things are starting to "rumble" overseas with regard to prosecutions.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2009/04/13/090413ta_talk_mayer

[leftword]

Again, and again, and again:

Why are Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove free? Why aren't they in custody as war criminals?

There are international treaties against what these people did, laws that require signatories like the United States to investigate their actions and prosecute if necessary. There is also US law, specifically Title 18>Part 1>Chapter 113C> § 2340. What they did, or ordered, is a clear violation, yet Cheney is on national TV defending it!

How stupid are we? Or how cowed?

[Pleneras]

Because the media doesn't pressure the government to touch a special class/group of people and because the people do not demand it in the same way the civil rights movement demanded equality and justice.

[Cyberoptic]

Why is a story as major as this no longer being featured on HP? Sure the main media are ignoring this, but HP should be different? Shouldn't it?

The only way to find this story now, is through bookmarks, or knowing it existed enough to search for it.

[Mikeeee]

Agreed.

[freethinkergirl]

We should forward the story to Rachel and Keith, get them started on it, then make sure we remind people of it in other threads, comments and blogs.

[Pleneras]

Agreed

[fifty8]

Perhaps after attending the Bilderberg meeting Petraeus seen the light.

[Wickywoo]

so he'll be turning himself in for trial, and turning state's evidence against his co-conspirators right?

[Tim303]

Go to bbc.co.uk, click on Radio 4, and find "Saturday Live" for 05.30.09. There's an interview with Lynndie England, the Abu Ghraib guard.

[Mikeeee]

cheney, rush and hannity will ignore it, just like the MSM is ignoring it. How can blitzer, john king at cnn deal with it after their cheerleading into a war, o'reilly. hannity et al can't deal with it either. It shows the whole group of them for the frauds they are.

[zerotimes10]

Bill Maher is not ignoring it but he seems like the only one. You can usually depend on the Comedians to tell you which way the wind blows.

[AbstractImp]

Thank you, General Petraeus, for clearly stating what has troubled many people who voted for change and are still waiting for it.

Thank you, Jay Bagwell, for showing just how much Cheney really cares about the soldiers he sent to fight his war crimes.

And thank you, too, Judge Napolitano, for clearly stating the felony nature of the actions of the past "administration".

Can we please sign the treaty for the International Criminal Courts? Then we can immediately extradite Cheney to Spain! Or, I guess we could rendition him to Egypt for waterboarding!

And yes, Lamar Alexander, we DO want every one of our leaders who authorized and encouraged this nation to break international law to be investigated on that, and to stand trial on that where they broke the law.

And then they will stand on where they broke international law.

Anf then this nation can return to defending and upholding principles, rather than following this path of criminal tyranny which we have recently been on.

[Ergon]

You do realise that what you wish for will open the present administration to war crimes charges too?

[zerotimes10]

Let's say for the sake of argument that you may be right. So what's your point?

[LeftRight]

And if it is committing war crimes, then I say GOOD!!!

[Pleneras]

The republican rhetoric lines sent via email to their internet gang is getting utterly foolish.

[tbone99]

Seeing John Bolton last night on Bill Mahler is a clue - he will say it was taken out of context and then like Heather Wilson , his other republican guest the will trot out the 5 minutes til doomsday defense-
evidently when the clock is ticking YOU MUST TORTURE. And its always ticking.

Actually- that defense is silly what terrorist couldn't hold out for 5 minutes or five hours if they knew the plan they had put into action was about to pay off. ?

[zerotimes10]

tbone99: I get your point but it's still a straw man defense. The terrible fact is that we live in a dangerous world. It has always been so. It takes REAL courage to NOT sacrifice Freedom for temporary Security. We must always stand strong for Freedom. And it will always be a hard thing to do. In a way, we are tortured everyday with this fact.

[lafrance]

funny how silent the media is on this. If he said we did not violate the convention there would be two or three stories an hour on this.
But, his admitting we violated the gc., well, the media has decided to ignore it.

[vinny]

a top general saying the geneva convention was violated is a pretty big deal...

[Cyberoptic]

Yes, it is a big deal for a general to say that. And it is a big deal that the media are ignoring it.

[LeftRight]

You're right, it's a pretty big deal that a serving 4 star says that we violated the Geneva Conventions. It's a FREAKING HUGE deal that the media aren't reporting it!

[drbillybob]

Are there ANY liberals in this country to want to know if timely, actionable and reliable intelligence was gathered by using these coercive measures? Cheney claims that waterboarding saved American lives. Obama is sitting on these CIA memos. Why?

Where's the "openness"? What's he afraid of? An honest and complete debate about the unfortunate use of a very nasty technique on ruthless bloodthirsty terrorists vs. the value of innocent American lives?

Not even curious?

[vinny]

for sure. liberals would love to see how torture was justified. and it's heartening to see that you too want to see a full and open investigation. we should join forces and demand the obama administration deliver all the facts... what do you say?

[vinny]

(note: most obamacrats aren't liberals)

[rongoodman]

If it's illegal, it's illegal. What else is there to say? If they want to argue that it was justified in spite of being illegal, let them take their chances convincing a jury.

[tbone99]

Oh ,we know timely intell was gathered - false confessions that backed up Cheney's itch to occupy Iraq.

[KeysE2S]

But even if it was, how can we prove that EITs were more efficient and more effective than traditional interrogation techniques?

[zakwouldhave]

drbillybob. I'm with you. I'm a Obama supporter who would like to see these memos released. Senator Levin said there is much to learn from them. Or not as much to learn as Cheney keeps claiming.
I'm glad the US does not need to use very nasty techniques vs ruthless bloodthirsty terrorists or we have lowered ourselves to their level. If you are not a believer in the power of the United States without using torture please read up on General Douglas Macarthur (mostly his occupation of Japan...wh­o had tortured our POW's) and other US Generals and military leaders who believed in our countries values winning the day....not the terrorists.

[zerotimes10]

drbillybob: There are LIberals and Conservatives who want to keep the lid on this. There are Liberals and Conservatives who don't. We may finally be reaching a point of agreement on this. Those that want openness and those who do not.