Why Musicians Are Right, Liz Cheney Is Wrong

Yesterday, a coalition of US and international musicians, including Trent Reznor, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Jackson Browne, Rise Against, Rosanne Cash, Billy Bragg and the Roots announced they were joining the National Campaign to Close Guantanamo, of which VoteVets.org is a part.

The musicians called for the close of the detention facility at Guantanamo, and issued a Freedom of Information Act request to find out how their own music was used in conjunction with torture.

Almost immediately, Liz Cheney and her neocon group "Keep America Safe" responded by calling the efforts "pathetic" and "laughable."

No, what's laughable is that Liz Cheney and her cronies think they can lecture a group that includes veterans on the harm that Gitmo has done to our troops and our own security. What's pathetic is that by lobbying to keep Gitmo open, Liz Cheney's group is helping keep alive one of the greatest recruiting posters that al Qaeda ever had, yet they dare call themselves "Keep America Safe." They might as well call it "Keep al Qaeda Recruiting."

In response to Cheney, Matthew Alexander, a former senior interrogator, said, "Guantanamo Bay remains an effective recruiting tool for Al Qaida to this day. The longer it remains open, the longer we'll fail to do all we can to protect ourselves from terrorist attacks. It is the epitome of everything we could have done wrong in the fight against Islamic extremism -- unlawful detentions without charge and torture and abuse. We can only defeat ourselves in this battle, and Guantanamo Bay was, and remains, a big step in that direction."

Hmmm... Liz Cheney who never performed an interrogation in her life, or a guy who did it for a living? Who has the cred here?

Matthew's position was echoed before, by VoteVets.org's Jay Bagwell, a former counterintelligence agent in Afghanistan. Bagwell, in a video recorded previously for VoteVets.org, "Torture makes our troops less safe. Torture creates terrorists. It's used so widely as a propaganda tool, now. In Afghanistan, all too often detainees had pamphlets on them depicting what happened at Guantanamo."

This one is tough. Liz Cheney or a guy who dealt with detainees in Afghanistan? Who do you trust more on what makes them tick?

The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops. It's time to stand up to the Cheneys, and close Guantanamo. You can help. Join Matthew, Jay, and the veterans at VoteVets.org by signing our petition to Congress, here.

 

Follow Jon Soltz on Twitter: www.twitter.com/jonsoltz

Comments

[Lightfoot Letters]

Not staying on point is intellectually dishonest. It is not about nutball Democrats or Republicans. It is not about what or if torture occurred at Gitmo.It is not about WWII or my personal feelings or how brave you think you are. The point was what causes devote muslims to volunteer, to die in order to cause the death of others, under the cloak of religion.
Simply put; Sean Hannity and Michael Moore produce a film full of lies based on the truth and a coalition of US and international musicians, including Trent Reznor, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Jackson Browne, Rise Against, Rosanne Cash, Billy Bragg and the Roots announced they were promoting the film world wide. It was a huge success around the world. Would you say the success (new recriuts) was because of Sean Hannity and Michael Moore (military actions) or the those who promoted the film. Take off your partisan glasses. The picture is more clear and sharp.

[Scent]

There are two problems I have with all that:

1. The former government and many besides are criminals on a scale unimagined since Nazi Germany. Millions dead. Billions in poverty. 99% of the people of this planet poorer just so a few parasites can become billionaires. - And You talk about logic in what one of those parasites / servant of parasites says?

Thy beong in jail. Nothing else can ever heal the wounds they created. Because as long as they roam free the wounds wil deepen and multiply.

2. You are talking about a symptom but do not make the connection to the evil behind it. What anyone of the criminals ruining our planet for all future generations says is irrelevant as long as You think that America has a right to be world police or number one or leading the planet in anything. We must find a way o become one among aquals. As long as anyone believes there is ANY number one - be it the Thrid Reich, the USA, the EU, Russia, or China - we will have a concentration of power inviting the parasitic criminals without conscience to misuse it.

We are not number one except in damage to economies, wars, massmurder, torture, .... . - Only the most vile of regimes have taken something like that as anything to be proud of.

[Scarborian]

Liz Cheney has a family philosophy to live up to: only the little people concern themselves with facts and truth, real leadership is about making money for your friends.

[jcheadsup]

Why haven’t we been attacked again since 911?

A. Because Cheney didn’t think they could get away with it again.
B. Because George W. didn’t think they could get away with it again.
C. Both of the above.

[Scarborian]

D. None of the above

[STParker]

Because once was enough to set their plan in motion and paint any subsequent Democratic president into a corner.

[django707]

If this is what we have to do to keep safe, we're not worth keeping safe.

[Bluebloodsbastardson]

great point!

[motoboy]

If Gitmo continually provokes a little terrorism, so what? Terrorism is good for the US Gov't.

What did Americans do on 9/11? They screamed for their government to save them. Their government launched two worthless little wars and imprisoned a bunch of Muslims. All this will do is cause more terrorism.

The government can't lose, and Liz Cheney wants to be president, so her stated position is completely in keeping with her career goals.

[hollyhund]

No War...No War industry..­.No War no contracts for Halliburto­n...No Halliburton contracts.­..stock price for Halliburton drops...st­ock price drop...Che­neys are broke!!

[MidwestMuse]

Interestingly, former Nixon White House Counsel John Dean, who writes extensively on what makes conservatives tick - says that authoritarian conservatives like the Cheneys purposefully promote policies that will inflame our enemies and recruit terrorists­...

It goes something like this: Declaring a never-ending 'war on terror' supposedly gives the president never-ending war powers, which they construe as giving the president broad powers to do pretty much as he (or she!) pleases...­so authoritarian conservatives think that we always should go it alone and rule with an iron fist...and as long as terrorists continue to be recruited, there will always be terrorists to fight - and since the conservatives claim that 'only they' can keep us safe from terrorism (except for that one time...but who's counting?)­...they seek to assure a conservative lock on the presidency and our government.

I may not have explained it that well - see John Dean's book, 'Conservatives Without Conscience', for the full explanatio­n...scary!

[deezus]

"they seek to assure a conservative lock on the presidency and our government­."

Doesn't Obama being elected refute John Dean's theory?

[MidwestMuse]

'Seeking' is just that - seeking - it doesn't mean they will always be successful. Thankfully, the American people finally saw through the lies and rejected them...

[motoboy]

I think you got it about right, Muse.

[xpub63]

Great post and the comments about Dean's Books. It's scary that these "thugs" were in Nixon's youg "thug" training program and they come back and once again attempt to destroy our nation.

[Bailey Reynolds]

As a veteran, it makes me crazy listening to the likes of Liz Cheney. She has absolutely zero experience in the realm of national defense/security. She has zero credibility and has only gained her positions through the worst kind of nepotism. Why on earth do these news outlets even pay attention to her? That makes me even more crazy b/c it lends her the air of credibility. Shame on them!

As for the group of Neo-Con know-nothings she's fronting, I believe they have one aim: perpetual war. I wonder if President Reagan could've ever imagined how we would've gone from the end of the Cold War (which was his greatest legacy) to this search for another external enemy to fight into perpetuity? I believe he would be rolling in his grave if he could see what is going on today. After all, it was he who signed the treaty banning torture.

[MED1025]

What he said.

[Godweiser]

One thing is for sure; neither Dick nor Liz Cheney have ever had to personally deal with people who are made even more fanatic in a firefight knowing that if they are captured alive, they'll be tortured. That tends to give someone an incentive not to surrender. Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney will never have to fight an enemy that fights harder because they know surrendering will involve sacrilegious indignities.

It also gives propaganda to the enemy to use against us as they recruit. That bad reputation helps give credibility to other rumors and eventually convinces local leaders not to align themselves with us, fearing that we'll swindle and mistreat them. Suddenly, we're lacking human intelligence assets, which then leaves our troops more blind in the field, while the enemy gets much more accurate intelligence against us...well, look what's been happening in Afghanistan folks.

Liz and Dick Cheney, and the other neocons that support this mentality have generally never been in uniform, they are think tank warriors. And when you are as high up as they are, it's easy to oversimplify and ignore things. And they have greatly oversimplified the nature of fighting in an asymmetric warfare environment and how important issues of morale can be.

But then, they don't face the immediate consequences, do they?

[ffny]

The only thing Liz Cheney has is the hope she, her group of lackies and and Dick "the criminal" Cheney still have a platform to voice their poison!

[ultrabop]

Why does Liz Chaney get air time?

[ultrabop]

al queda, Liz Chaney, Dick Chaney, Hallaburton, weapons, defense contractors, war as a profit model, they're all in the scam together. It's about the money. Guantamano is indeed a tool to keep the permanent war alive and profitable.

[Lightfoot Letters]

Matthew Alexander, a former senior interrogator, said, "Guantanamo Bay remains an effective recruiting tool for Al Qaida to this day. First, this assumption lacks merit. However, if true, the main reason Guantanamo is a recruiting tool for Al Qaida is the coalition of US and international musicians, including Trent Reznor, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Jackson Browne, Rise Against, Rosanne Cash, Billy Bragg and the Roots and all groups and individuals like them.

[Godweiser]

I'm not sure how people opposed to torture being quiet would somehow make the problem of increased recruitment go away. And I'll take the military officer's (yes, I checked, he wears/wore the blue suit) analysis over yours on that one. He's the one more rooted in the understanding of history.

Thinking that brutalizing the Muslim world won't somehow increase recruitment and distrust, which makes the job of the troops, whom right wingers love until the troops dare disagree with them or otherwise indicate that they are not representing their ideology, much harder.

In short, they don't know what they're talking about, and they ignored the military when they advised, for some extremely good reasons (See: Algeria) why a torture and brutality policy was the worst possible thing.

As much as Republicans like to quote WWII history, or the "Saving Private Ryan" version that they adore for the blood and guts, they forget that what made our time against the Germans easier was that we took prisoners and treated them well. What made the Russian time harder was the knowledge among Germans that they'd be treated badly upon surrender.

They fought the Russians much harder and ran to surrender to us.

So yes, the military interrogator holds the more valid read of the situation. And no, ideology does not trump reality.

[Lightfoot Letters]

Hollywood types promoting the 'idea of torture' around the world, is a recruiting tool for Al Qaida. It can not be said more clear.

[nk007]

Lightfoot:
You reject Mr. Mathew Alexander assertion (by the way his was not an assumption) that Guantanamo­... remains an effective recruiting tool for AL Qaida," asserting that it "lacks merit." Yet, you provide no evidence to support your own assertions. Do you have any direct knowledge about Al Qaida's that contradicts what Mr. Alexander said? I am particularly interested in your own personal and direct experience in interrogating captured members of Al Qaida that led you to reject Mr Alexander's assertions, which he based on his direct experience interrogating some members of Al Qaida. I am assuming that the reason you gave us, explaining Tge CUAE GWBBUSG why "Guantanamo is a recruiting tool for Al Qaida, were shaped by your direct dealings with AlQaida.

[Lightfoot Letters]

Hollywood types promoting the 'idea of torture' around the world, is a recruiting tool for Al Qaida. It can not be said more clear.

[susanthe]

The right needs to keep the (now) endless cycle of undeclared war going, in order to keep the defense contractors profits up - and to justify the already bloated, but ever increasing defense spending in the US budget.

[Angelaaaa]

... and al Qaeda is a great recruiting tool for the far right-wing nutters in the Republican Party. This nasty little symbiotic relationship is great for both spheres of lunacy - if they didn't exist, they'd have to invent each other.

And they get to all get to bask in the warm glow of patriotism, defending their culture, their people and their God.

Thus the circle is completed.

[ultrabop]

Agreed. The leaders of this conspiracy of endless warfare are traitors to this country. They are aiding and abetting the enemy. Most of the ex-generals believe this as well. The current generals are afraid to believe it. They bask in the warmth of Obama's gaze.