Gas Tax Holiday? Who's the Real Elitist?
It was bad enough that Sen. Clinton signed on to the plain-as-day-pander to suspend the 18 cent-per-gallon federal gas tax for the summer months, but her continued allegiance to an idea that has been universally (except for her and Sen. McCain) derided offers a couple disturbing insights.
In the face of overwhelming evidence that the suspension would suck anywhere from $9 billion to $10 billion from the treasury, encourage more driving -- which leads to greater pollution and an increase in demand that would drive prices back up to pre-tax suspension levels -- and deliver even more obscene profits to the oil companies, she was back on TV today saying she didn't hold much truck with economists. That "if we did it right" she would see that it would be implemented effectively.
That, said Gail Collins in Saturday's Times, "turns a proposal that was unlikely to ever get passed into one that could not make it through the Senate if Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy both rose from the dead and hand-carried it there."
And despite the senator's assertion that she's going to "reverse the trends I've seen in our government and our political system," what she's actually peddling is more of the same.
It's the Iraq war resolution vote all over again -- and it's a page out of the George Bush playbook: make a mistake, and by God I'm gonna stick by that mistake because I'm resolute. That's not reversing the system, that's perpetuating it.
And the subtext to the whole gas tax suspension -- critics-be-damned, she knows better and she's going to take care of all of us working folks out there -- strikes me as more than a little elitist, frankly.
A pat on the head and 30 bucks in the wallet might sway a few folks, but the truth is it's more of the same misleading, elitist, top-down Beltway nonsense that's gotten us into the mess we're in.
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I am sorry if somebody already post about it, but I think is important to reinforce.
It is about credibility, and paradox, and we need to rethink about it.
It is impossible to us not see the truth.
Hillary changes with the wind.
I admit she knows about politic, but I am sure what she is up to. Only win the game and continue the old politics, which did not put USA in another level in history.
Sometimes, I can not corroborate well my opinions because, unfortunately, my poor English does not help me. But if I can not write properly, my mind can be use correctly.
I can see the general problem, and I studied hard about USA history, and you can do it too, and you can see, for yourself, the chain of commands that never change, and the results are always the same.
What we can wait? Miracles?
We do not approve Bush politics, but we are trying to perpetuate it, not moving forward, but continue with the same old politics and speeches... PARADOX.
And, how do you see Hillary is saying: obliterate Iran?
This guy is an eletist idiot
' and deliver even more obscene profits to the oil companies'
how about the oil companies work very hard to deliver a good clean fuel supply, without which, the WORLD WOULD NOT FUNCTION! The entire world works seamlessly, and a few billon in profit is outragous? I THINK NOT!
Why don't you people get mad as the 3.5 TRILLION the government STEALS from the us tax payers and does little with it but give it away to the poor and give it to other countries.
If you believe that oil companies are making record profits while operating in a free market, you are grossly uninformed. This isn't "Little Jimmy's Lemonade Stand" competing with "Suzie's Refreshments" on opposite sides of the cul de sac. The game is rigged. Do some honest research before you defend oil company profits.
8 cents per gallon is more that reasonable since they have to fund a zillion 401k plans attached to their stocks, plus exploration etc. If you can do a better job, why don't you? if you can create a better fuel, why don't you? It is EASY to bitch, it is hard to produce. The GOV takes 18 cents a gallon, for what? I am thankful that I have abundant energy to power my car, my lights, my refrigerator, and on and on. What are you LIBs going to do, if you had your way and eliminated 'BIG OIL"?
"This guy is an eletist idiot"
"and does little with it but give it away to the poor"
heh heh
Since this is a hard core Clinton bashing site, I'm now convinced that the gas tax holiday proposal is a good thing.
Look I'll admit to being an Obama supporter. But if by some chance she ends up being the Democratic Candidate I will vote for her. Hell I'm so sick of how badly Bush and company have screwed things up I would vote for a potted plant if it had a (D) behind its name. I wont speak for others but Im not bashing Senator Clinton. If this proposal was a good idea I would support it. The thing that irritates me about this is that its such obvious pandering for votes.
I'll keep asking this question until one of you Clinton or McCain supporters answers it.
If its so important for us to have a Federal Gas Tax holiday then where is the legislation in the Senate to make it happen. They both keep talking but I dont see any Bill introduced in the Senate to make it happen. Whats the Senate Bill number for their proposal? Its a really simple question. I saw several interviews with both candidates on TV the last few days and none of the talking heads on TV bothered to actually ask them why they haven't introduced legislation if they think this is important for the poor folks who are suffering at the pumps?
Where's the beef (ops the bill)!
skibum - that explains how the dems voted in Jimmy Carter and the Clintons. They never met terrorist or dictators they didn't like!
Hillary threw Paul Krugman under the bus. The loud mouth had been an ardent supporter but fell out on the tax holiday gimmick. Hillary thinks Krugman is an elitist gasbag!
Diamond says - suspending the gass tax (18 cents) the face of overwhelming evidence that the suspension would suck anywhere from $9 billion to $10 billion from the treasury, encourage more driving'
What 'overwhelming evidence'?
if the government taxes you 9-10 BILLION dollars on the gasoline you buy, and the oil companies only make 3-4 billion ON THEIR PRODUCT they sell. Who has the more obseen Amount?
If you are worried about driving, why don't you libs just outlaw cars?
hey Jerry isn't it Timothy McVeigh's birthday or something?
Just because I understand buisness does not mean I am a nut. I notice you are the one who remembered Timothy McVeigh! good job! nice argument!
It takes ENERGY to run the world, and OIL is that source for now. Quit belly-aching and develop something better!
The overwhelming evidence is basic supply and demand. Econ 101. Lower the price on something and the demand rises, raise the price and the demand falls. Geesh - go take a class in macro economics.
and you are WAY off on the profits part. Exxon by themselves make 10-12 billion per quarter. This isn't a product by any means either, it's a natural resource - one of vital strategic importance. If you haven't realized, our entire well being at the moment depends on oil. Our food supply depends on it because we make fertilizers out of it.
you didn't answer the question, what gives the GOV the right to steal the 9-10 billion, and you don't mind?
Don't forget that those profits are paid to the MILLIONS on 401k plans, and a whole bunch of retirees will be depending on this.
I have taken economics, and I run my own medium size buisness. You are correct on the profits, but I was trying to make a quck point.
What price is 'fair' to power THE ENTIRE WORLD for 4 billion people?
Several years ago, my son ran for President of his class. It was great. We made campaign buttons, campaign signs, it was a truly great experience for him, and for me. I got to teach him several lessons as a result. He won the "primary" and it was down to two candidates. He practiced his speech. He knew it cold. They gave their speeches the day before the election. His platform was concerned with placing a recycling bin in the cafateria. He gave his speech perfectly. His opponent's platform concerned giving the students five extra hours of recess per day. His opponent gave a good speech as well. Who do you think won?
I explained to him that it was unfair and improper for a candidate to promise something during a campaign that he or she could not deliver. His teacher said much the same thing to him. The teacher called his mom to warn her. The teacher said, "They are just third graders. In real life he would have won. Adults are smarter than third graders." I told him his teacher was right. WHAT THE F$&K AM I SUPPOSED TO TELL HIM NOW?
Newsflash: Obama to submit bill to temporarily increase gas taxes over summer, points to economist support.
Here is the REAL Newsflash: (THIS BELOW IS ALL FACTUAL, UNFORTUNATELY)
Hillary does not submit any bill for anything, despite weeks of saber-rattling, undermining her big tough words against economists worldwide. Nothing gets done in 2008, as predicted. Economists worldwide rejoice. Bubbas claim that "$4.97 average gas price would have been much lower if that dang gas tax had been lifted."
She skips town and state with swindled votes from confused or idiotic voters who fell for her pandering lies, and never comes back to IN or NC again.
A BETTER IDEA: Let's pay the eighteen cents and have a holiday on the other $3.30 per gallon.
As a panderer Sen. Clinton is a piker. Let's have a REAL tax holiday. With the economy in shambles let's suspend ALL federal taxes for three months and let the citizenry spend their own money on those domestic products which will stimulate the GDP.
Please for gods sakes. This is absurd. Come back and lets discuss this when Senator's McCain or Clinton have actually followed their words by introducing legislation in the Senate.
Words not followed by legislation is really nothing but pandering for votes. I'm sorry you can try and spin this anyway you want but thats the truth. An aid can draft the bill and submit it to the Senate Clerk. They could draft the bill themselves and Fax it to the Senate Clerk. So far its all just words ....no legislating. Please try and put your bias aside and actually think about that for just one second. If it were that important to them they would have introduced legislation last week when they started spouting off about this. Words not followed by actions speak volumes about how sincere they are concerning the poor folks plight at the gas pump.
She'll stick to this script long enough to sway the working class whites in Indiana and North Carolina. Once she wins the nomination, she'll come up with a different solution for gas prices.
Exactly! Anyone who thinks this can happen is a moron and falling for the oldest trick in politics...pander with trinkits and the sheeple will blindly follow....right over the cliff.
Americans are not as stupid as Hillary thinks we are. Apparently some still believe in experts instead of "trust me when I tell you to" Clinton:
New CBS/NYT Poll:
On the "gas tax holiday," those polled seem to share the view of Sen. Obama, with 70% saying the idea is being used by Sens. Clinton and McCain for political gain, rather than to help average Americans. A majority, 49% against 45%, think the proposed summer hiatus on the 18.4-cent federal gasoline tax is a bad idea.
Remember Hillary is good with numbers! she can make 9% a total win even tho shes 100,000 votes behind. She has shown her true colors, Promise them anything to get votes. America deserves better than she is.
At least she's going to try to have the oil companies pay for it----unlike McCain's plan of the tax payers footing the bill.
Where's Obama's short term relief plan?
IF, and that's a big if, she ever introduces a bill in Congress for a windfall profits tax on the oil companies, it's doubtful that it will ever make it out of committee, let alone pass both houses. And IF by some miracle it did pass Congress, it would have to be signed into law by Bush. Do you really - really truly - think that's going to happen?
confiscating the Oil profits, will effect 1 million or so 401K and anger a lot of potential retirees
She isn't going to try, who are you kidding! She has already, in stump speech 100 through 1,015 promised those windfall profits for re-investing in green energy, now she says those profits will be used for the gas tax holiday...which is it?? You can't spend the same dollar twice, unless she's also magical. But beyond all of this...is the mere fact that this hiatus WON"T happen because there is a moron in office named GW BUSH who is in bed with oil companies and wouldn't, if his left testicle were on fire, sign a bill taking away oil profits. This is a straight up PANDER and anyone who falls for this or uses this BS as reason to vote for her is off their rocker!
At least OBAMA says that we need to CUT BACK (which is a fact), we need to drive less. How about all those SUV's people use to run their errands to the grocery store two blocks away? There is NO easy fix, but at least OBAMA is telling you the TRUTH that this will take ALL of US working together. He has also indicated that he wants to take windfall profits, but we aren't getting at those with GWB in office, and Obama knows this. We can't begin a PLAN until we OUST those that are protecting oil companies.
YOU pay for it you idiot! Like all buisnesses, the oil companies will raise prices to offset their profits seezed by the government. In the end, consumers ALWAYS foot the bill! jeeeeeze!
Two simple facts:
1. BIG OIL DOES NOT CARE FOR YOU. They will RAISE THE PRICE TO WIPE OUT ANY SAVINGS after lifting the gas tax. ALL THE "SAVINGS" GO STRAIGHT TO THEM.
2. NO GAS TAX MEANS NO ROAD AND BRIDGE MAINTENANCE JOBS. We will lose $9 billion and Big Oil collects free money of $9 billion, without having to do any extra legwork.
IF ANY HILLARY GAS HOLIDAY GULLIBLE SUPPORTERS have anything to counter on these two points, please go right ahead....
How much do people pay for gas in Europe?
By the logic people are throwing around here, they should be paying the same amount as we are here. After all, when the government lowers taxes, big oil raises prices. So the inverse must also be true. When government raises taxes, big oil must lower prices. After all, the market can only bear so much...
BIG oil COMPETES with other oil companies, and retailers will go to the cheaper producer. BIG oil will NOT raise their prices, because they must SELL SOMETHING to get a profit. Tight compatition requires a slim profit margin. ANY buisness owner knows this
The gas tax goes into the GENERAL FUND. Since the government is running deficits, that money is used in MANDITORY ENTITLEMENTS such as Medicare, and Medicaid. THAT is why you have bridges colapsing, because the maintinance is not being performed as it should be.
Do you think you have an account waiting with all your Social Security money in it? It's gone and has been spent in the general budget
get a clue
Hey, Jerryin ATL:
You get this as your clue:
Big Oil WILL RAISE THE PRICES because they know THEY CAN.
If we are paying the taxes and still buying oil like there's no tomorrow, what makes you think they can't raise it to wipe out any savings if the taxes are taken out?
Will you know the difference? Are you going to ask them "What would the price be before you raised it back??"
Average price has gone up 15 cents in the last three weeks. You still bought gas, right?
If the price actually went down 18, it will be back up in a week. You will still buy it because you're used to that price.
They know. They are salivating.
JerryinATL: Either you are playing dumb, or your info is from 1955:
Gas tax does NOT go into a general fund.
There IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING CALLED U.S. HIGHWAY TRUST FUND
and its money does not come from General Fund:
http://www.nemw.org/HWtrustfund.htm
Before 1956 it did come from general fund. After 1956, it is not.
It comes from the 18.4 cent tax directly.
And actually even your favorite source fo pseudo info, FOXNews, reported that Highway Trust Fund is facing serious shortfall because the tax has not increased in years:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274113,00.html
You still think we need to get rid of the tax so you can buy an extra case of beer every month?
Get your facts straight. Consult an expert if you need to. Or....maybe Hillary's all knowing brain has rubbed off on you??
Hillary=Bush, I am going viral on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BAz2kkeD8
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