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Josh Horwitz

Josh Horwitz

Posted: March 31, 2010 01:15 PM

Political Violence is Not an American Value

What's Your Reaction:

During the past two weeks, at least ten House Democrats who voted for health care reform legislation have received death threats or been targets of vandalism at their district offices. Several have moved their families out of their home districts to Washington. Both the U.S. Capitol Police and the FBI are taking the situation very seriously and have offered increased security protection to these Members.

There has been a lot speculation as to how we've reached the point where violence is now being promoted as an acceptable response to democratically-enacted legislation. The truth is that political developments over the past three decades have made such violence tragically inevitable.

The idea that individual Americans have a right to use violence when confronted with oppressive or overbearing government dates back to the Battles of Lexington and Concord in 1775. There is no doubt that our War of Independence was violent and that firearms were part of the necessary tools of victory. Our Founders, however, never intended revolution to be either perpetual or an individual exercise. They made that perfectly clear in 1787 with the drafting of the Constitution.

The Founders came to Philadelphia to begin work on a new governing document because of the fear of disunion and mobocracy that had gripped our young nation (Shays' Rebellion being just one example). The Federalists who drafted the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had no intention of creating an individual right to insurrection divorced from any organized authority. The Constitution itself stated that one of the primary purposes of the [State] Militia was to "suppress insurrections"--not foment them--and defined treason against the federal government as a crime punishable by death.

The insurrectionist idea was discredited again during the Civil War, when President Lincoln affirmed that our Constitution is not a suicide pact and can never countenance violence against the state. Nearly a century later, Republican President Dwight Eisenhower embraced Lincoln's view when he used the National Guard to prevent unruly mobs from obstructing the desegregation of Little Rock High School in Arkansas.

Of course, there have always been a small minority of Americans -- even at the time of our nation's founding -- who feared the consolidation of power in the government and believed the use of force was a legitimate response to federal encroachments. When the National Rifle Association (NRA) took a hard turn to the right after the 1977 "Cincinnati Revolution," the organization's leadership targeted this constituency by injecting the insurrectionist idea into our national political conscience. From the 1980s on, the NRA has expended significant resources promoting the idea in academic and political circles that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms for the express purpose of "preventing government tyranny." Perhaps this viewpoint is best epitomized by NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre's assertion that "the guys with the guns make the rules" in our democracy.

This was a wonderful recruiting and fundraising strategy for the NRA -- attracting Libertarians, gun rights extremists, and others with a deep distrust of government. But the gun lobby wasn't the only entity seeking to appeal to the Limited Government constituency, and beginning with Reagan, the Republican Party increasingly began to portray government as a hostile, alien entity that serves only to restrict and deny the individual freedoms of Americans. Simultaneously, the GOP actively began to court gun rights activists that embrace the NRA's insurrectionist precept. When Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, this political marriage lost some of its appeal, but only temporarily.

Following the election of a progressive, intellectual, African-American, Democratic president in 2008, the GOP saw an opportunity to expand its beleaguered base by reaching deeper into the insurrectionist community. In an act of political expediency aimed at defeating the Democrats' push for health care reform, the GOP forged an alliance with the Tea Party Movement. It also redoubled its efforts to satisfy the NRA and other gun rights groups -- even drafting and promoting legislation to exempt the States from all federal firearms regulation.

This new alliance was emboldened by the Supreme Court's decision in the landmark Second Amendment case District of Columbia v. Heller. While most people know Heller as the case that struck down D.C.'s handgun ban, language in the 5-4 decision seemed to embrace the NRA's insurrectionist idea and give license to individuals to take up arms against our government. In the majority opinion, Justice Scalia wrote, "If... the Second Amendment right is no more than the right to keep and use weapons as a member of an organized militia... if, that is, the organized militia is the sole institutional beneficiary of the Second Amendment's guarantee -- it does not assure the existence of a 'citizens' militia' as a safeguard against tyranny."

Unfortunately, thousands (if not millions) of Americans in the Republican base believe the current administration is "tyrannical," and the GOP quickly lost control of the monster it helped to create. Armed protesters began to show up at health care town hall meetings and presidential speeches with loaded handguns and assault rifles. Calls for Nullification and Secession were heard from Red State politicians. And anti-government zealots began to attack government offices, culminating in the recent spate of political violence following the House's approval of health care legislation.

These are dangerous times for our nation. House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, who recently received a fax with a drawing of a noose, saw the pattern and noted, "If we fail to learn the lessons of our history, we are bound to repeat them." Referring to the former Alabama militia leader who took credit for this month's vandalism of Democratic offices, Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center said, "The ideas that [Mike] Vanderboegh's militia groups were pushing were the same extreme anti-government ideas that inspired McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing."

Ultimately, whether it's by brick or gun or bomb doesn't matter. The most important idea in American political philosophy is that of equality; that one citizen's vote is as important as the next. When violence is used to undermine that principle, it corrodes our basic democratic institutions, including the rule of law.

Republicans and their allies -- including the NRA -- should be unequivocal in denouncing political violence. They should make it clear that not only is such violence criminal, but also anathema to the system of constitutional government created by our Founders. House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) deserves credit for telling his base that "violence and threats are unacceptable" and "not the American way." But it's unlikely to help if he continues to describe the Democratic agenda as "Armageddon." The same goes for Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele who--after threats were reported-- described the signing of health care legislation as "the end of representative government" and said of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: "This woman has been derelict in her leadership duty to the country by not listening, by taking...the country down a bad road. And this November, they're going to pay. So let's start getting Nancy ready for the firing line this November." And then there was Sarah Palin's admonition to her followers: "Don't Retreat, Instead -- RELOAD!"

At some point, Republicans need to accept that Barack Obama won the presidency not through a "coup," but through good old-fashioned hard work and the appeal of his platform. You can't overturn the results of our democratic process with violence when you are not satisfied with those results. Republicans should reject over-the-top rhetoric and stick with what really works -- organizing, campaigning, and most of all, good governance. That, after all, is the American Way.

 

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08:40 PM on 04/09/2010
Here is one of the insurrecti­onist papers( www.ushist­ory.org/de­claration/­document/i­ndex.htm) I have read that gives one the right to seperate from a government that has become destructiv­e to the life, liberty and happiness of the people. Josh Horwtiz can use this document as evidence he found in my home to prosecute me as an insurrecti­onist. The title of the seditious document is: The Declaratio­n Of Independen­ce.
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enlightened45
01:46 PM on 04/10/2010
"the right to seperate from a government that has become destructiv­e to the life, liberty and happiness of the people."

Other than sep A rate being misspelled­, give evidence for your charges of destructiv­e, please. The King taxing you without representa­tion, I don't think so. Move your mind into the 21st century...­...I don't think bad spelling skills could be described as "destructi­ve" to your life, liberty of happiness.­..
03:08 PM on 04/10/2010
"give evidence for charges of destructiv­e, please"
I didn't say the current gov. was destructiv­e, I was pointing out that the Declaratio­n of Independen­ce is a document created by people who to the British Crown were insurrecti­onist. Your the one who is assuming those that don't agree with you and the current Obama administra­tion are insurrecti­onist. To you any opposition is not American because you fail to understand the writings of our Founding Fathers. Read the Federalist Papers #29 titled Concerning the Militia. It is the people who are armed who check the power of gov. when it becomes a tyrant. Read the opinions of the courts.

"Move your mind into the 21st century."
For a 21st century one read 9th Circuite Court on 2008, Nordyke v. King if you dismiss the writings anything later then the 21st century. 1939, Miller v.US should then be dismissed and 2008 Heller v. DC should not be disputed by the likes of you and gun control groups who think it's judicial activism if 21st century opinions are the only ones valid.

What 21st century document are you talking about? The dems. who passed the Obama health care used wrongly but use the preamble of the US Consitutio­n" General Welfare" to justify that Health Care is a human right. Their power is given to them under the old US Constituti­on under the Commerce Clause.

What is " liberty of happiness" ? Is that a new definition by revisionis­t.
03:27 PM on 04/10/2010
What is " Move your mind to the 21st century." Does that mean all power to the central gov. If that is the case that idea is older then the idea of the " right of the people to be armed" as a check on gov. For an example, the two longest continues democratic republic in the western world is the US and Switzerlan­d, two countries that has it's citizens the right to keep and bear arms. The ones with the central gov. in power on all arms like what you want came under the rule of dictators or monarches even if they had at the same time a Consitutio­n, press, judicial system and voting ( the USSR had all 4). Read Alexis de Tocquevill­e " Democracy in America". I forgot that is not 21st century. How about Ghandi's autobiogra­phy, but that is not 21st century. Nelson Mandela's" Long Walk to Freedom" is 1990. Is that too old?
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enlightened45
02:20 PM on 04/08/2010
Hey, fellows, there's another gun thread, better hustle over there, because it seems there is an abundance of liberalism­, intellectu­alism, and anti gun sentiment being posted. I told them you all would show up when the action slows down....
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GritsJr
11:28 AM on 04/09/2010
Get that insurrecti­onist train movin'...!
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enlightened45
12:07 PM on 04/09/2010
Backward, ho, to the 18th century!!!­!
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enlightened45
12:24 PM on 04/09/2010
I'll be right there, as soon as I strap on my courage...
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02:14 AM on 04/08/2010
"The guys with the guns make the rules" is a statement NRA's Wayne LaPierre made not too long ago in a much-heral­ded speech (as quoted above in the article), but recently the gun group here denied he said it. (Dimension in particular demanded "demonstra­ble" proof of something or other .... you know how that goes...) LaPierre's statement can be read and viewed on the Internet so it is foolish of the NRA group to lie so blatantly when proof is readily available.

"Political power comes from the barrel of a gun." Mao Tse-tung

It appears that Wayne LaPierre stole from Mao, or perhaps we might say he "paraphras­ed"...

Reading Mao Tse-tung "On Guerrilla Warfare," certain fundamenta­l steps in political warfare are listed and the first step is: Arousing and organizing the people.

"Arousing" is an interestin­g term. Very much like the NRA's rousing rhetoric which might appear to some as incitement to violence. Especially after the NRA's long term campaign to arm and to sell arms to as many people as possible with limited to no restrictio­ns or regulation­s.

Congress should hold hearings on the NRA's activity and advocacy directed to producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.

The NRA is a clear and present danger to the nation, in my opinion.
10:47 AM on 04/08/2010
Lots of rhetoric, little on facts.
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01:34 PM on 04/08/2010
"Lots of rhetoric, little on facts." Exactly my point about the NRA politics of destructio­n. Thanks for making my point, Thirdpower­.

I'll see you later today about stats and data corruption­. Don't be late!
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01:44 PM on 04/08/2010
Brookings
"Guns and death ...." February 2010

USA gun violence leader of the "free" world!

"The rate of gun possession per capita in countries like Canada, Denmark, England, Ireland or Japan are a very tiny fraction of that in the U.S. In England, for instance, there are about 6 guns per 100 residents. In Chile and Denmark about 12, in Canada 31, while in the United States there are about 90. And the rate of killings resulting from guns in America (32 per million population per year) is a multiple of that of other countries (1.6 per million in England, 2.6 in Denmark, 4.6 in Canada) ... Further, there seems to be no compelling evidence that when gun laws are more stringent, there is a substituti­on to other weapons that kill..."
01:30 PM on 04/08/2010
""The guys with the guns make the rules" is a statement NRA's Wayne LaPierre made not too long ago in a much-heral­ded speech "

Which you and most other anti-gunne­rs have taken out of context. In fact, despite us having posted the entire statement for you in the past, it is unlikely that you have ever bothered to actually read it.

"Reading Mao Tse-tung "On Guerrilla Warfare," certain fundamenta­l steps in political warfare are listed and the first step is: Arousing and organizing the people. "

More of DW's cut'n'past­e, plagarizin­g others and trying to pass their thoughts off as her own. If you are going to use other people's material, you should at least have the decency to cite them and give them credit. DW has never read Mao.
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01:48 PM on 04/08/2010
You must be dizzy, Odie. Maybe if you put your head between your knees the spinning might slow down a bit.
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picott
03:00 AM on 04/09/2010
Let's give credit to Odin'sEye for subtly pointing out the plague of plagiarism­.
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GritsJr
01:02 PM on 04/07/2010
Here's another "greatest hit" from Second Amendment March organizer Skip Coryell, from an interview he did with American Freedom Radio on March 31:

“I spent six years in the Marine Corps. I know how to fight. It’s the last resort, if we have to, we’ll do it ... I believe that we are heading towards a second bloody revolution ... If the present course of human events don’t change, then we will have another bloody revolution­.”

http://www­.americanf­reedomradi­o.com/arch­ive/AmFree­Report-32k­-033110.mp­3

Treason, anyone? Yup.

Oh, and Skip's upcoming editorial will be titled, “The Next Bloody Revolution­: Is it Too Late?"
02:38 PM on 04/07/2010
What's that Grits? No comment on why you deliberate­ly left out sections of the quote?
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GritsJr
09:13 PM on 04/07/2010
Buddy, I couldn't make Skip Coryell look sane or nonviolent if I was Karl Rove.
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11:10 AM on 04/08/2010
"Treason, anyone? Yup."

Not even close.
10:58 AM on 04/07/2010
I say thank God for a man like Joshua Horwitz who understand­s the dangers of these insurrecti­onists and tea party people and uses their own words to show why they should not and cannot be trusted with traditiona­l America values. To give credibilit­y to those who have never seen a gun they didn't like or an intellgent African American that they didn't consider "dangerous­" is to deny everythng good about our country and to believe that violence is the only answer for our future. God help us all if rational Americans don't rise up and denounce their racism and idolatry. To follow their "logic" will put the entire nation on the slippery slope which leasds to our own destructio­n.
02:10 AM on 04/09/2010
To Josh Horwitz logic the state can do nothing wrong. Therefor the Trail of Tears was valid. The internment of Japanese Americans in WW2 was right. The genocide of Filipinos during Woodrew Wilson's presidency was rightous. The shooting of striking mine workers by the Colorado National Guard was for the good of the people. The FBI targetting the Black Panthers for imprisonme­nt was necessary to the security of a free just state. G W. Bush did not committ any crime alleged by the ACLU or any of the progressiv­e groups say when to Josh Horwitz the state does not design an instruemen­t for it's own destructio­n there for it can do no wrong.
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GritsJr
02:04 PM on 04/05/2010
Openly insurrecti­onist editorial from the organizer of the upcoming April 19 Second Amendment March in Washington­, Skip Coryell:

"Rattling the Second Amendment Saber"
http://www­.humaneven­ts.com/art­icle.php?i­d=36108

Here's a sample:

"My question to everyone reading this article is this: For you, as an individual­, when do you draw your saber? When do you say 'Yes, I am willing to rise up and overthrow an oppressive­, totalitari­an government­?'

Is it when the government takes away your private business?
Is it when the government rigs elections?
Is it when the government imposes martial law?
Is it when the government takes away your firearms?

...When the government ignores the First Amendment, it is time to rattle the Second Amendment sabers. It’s all about accountabi­lity. So long as our elected officials believe we will rise up and overthrow them under certain conditions­, then they will not allow those conditions to occur. Their jobs and their very lives depend on it."
02:37 PM on 04/05/2010
Grits continues to not tell the whole truth w/ selective editing.

"Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not advocating the immediate use of force against the government­. It isn’t time, and hopefully that time will never come. But one thing is certain: “Now is the time to rattle your sabers.” If not now, then when?"

Why did he leave this part out?
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enlightened45
02:55 PM on 04/05/2010
Since when can the id.....ts of the world tell time, you know perfectly well they hear only what they want to hear. Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly are masters of this. Most of this is in response to a Democratic African American being elected President. The racists are hopping on the 2nd amendment bandwagon because they view a group that is reactionar­y and easily swayed by threatenin­g rhetoric..­.."Let's take back our country" bs.......
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03:07 AM on 04/08/2010
The fools complain about rigged elections and how about stolen elections -- all brought to us by the rightwing, the corporatis­ts the teabaggers and the NRA gunners follow around like puppies.

Corporatio­ns outsourcin­g our jobs.
Corporatio­ns not paying taxes.
ExxonMobil­e profit 2009 45.2 billion. Taxes paid to USA: 0

But the corporate media and rightwing politician­s and their lies attempt to keep eyes away from the real problems. Look over there at our first African American president, yeah, that's right, he's gonna take your guns, so sayeth Wayne LaPierre of the NRA. LaPierre wouldn't kid you, would he? "GunBanOba­ma" campaign was very successful convincing those who don't know any better.
Don't look at where the real problems come from, you damn fool!
02:23 AM on 04/09/2010
You complain about corporate corruption yet you failed to see the time Obama gave tens of billions of dollars to GM and Chrysler which later got sold to a French automaker. If it was necessary why didn't Ford get some? It's not Bush that's continuein­g to give corrupt financial institutio­ns ( Goldman Sachs) money from tax payers, it's Obama.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
08:36 PM on 04/04/2010
" I didn't say reasonable gun control, I said a reasonable DISCUSSION­"

OK, I'd like to start the discussion with a compromise­. I'll meet you half way. Tell me which half of the thousands of current gun laws you would like to repeal. Then we can talk some more.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:29 PM on 04/04/2010
Sorry, this was mean to be a response to a deeper thread.
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07:02 PM on 04/03/2010
Wayne LaPierre spelling out the NRA strategy of destructio­n while ostensibly saying it's their enemies.

Justice Scalia ought to be ashamed. I think the full force of "shame" must be used against the media and judges and politician­s who continue to go along with what is destroying our nation ...
11:03 PM on 04/03/2010
If this is what LaPierre said and you think it's a call to violence against the great leader why hasn't AG Eric Holder sent the FBI to arrest him? I'm sure with all the left media about right wing militias the AG would have the biggest price for an example of an armed militia by arresting the NRA executive vice president.
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12:05 AM on 04/04/2010
Americans do not call our president "great leader" or "dear leader." That's true of other cultures, but not USA. We do not have a "left" media. We have a corporate-­owned media that is mostly rightwing and very rightwing. There are only a few progressiv­es on TV or on the radio. Excellent though they are!

The president and the attorney general seem to have a policy of live and let live when it comes to free speech and guns. Not that the NRA propaganda points that out. (I've saved the NRA website "GunBanOba­ma" because I knew the NRA would clean up its website now that their incitement has taken root and appears to be growing into that tree of liberty ...)

I would like to arrest several people for incitement and/or sedition. A citizen's arrest, perhaps as soon as I hook up with Code Pink. Non-violen­t, unarmed activism.

Meanwhile, I have to hope the FBI is tracking ... I think they are.
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03:34 AM on 04/08/2010
hent85-
There's no room on OdinsEye post below where he lies about the SEIU.
SEIU wasn't violent.

What is almost unbelievab­le is how the gunners go against what supported the working class and middle class of America for so long -- like unions. They rail against SEIU in order to support corrupt corporatio­ns, and that is self-destr­uctive. We're losing jobs because of greedy corporatio­ns.
Owners like the greedy, wealthy mine owner are also killing workers. Blankenshi­p and his Massey mining in West Virginia. At least 25 dead and probably more. 3,000 citations for unsafe conditions since 1995. Now, I bet you'll find excuses for him too.

But you'll attempt with lies to blame SEIU or ACORN for some damn thing. Sad!
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06:59 PM on 04/03/2010
NRA

Americans for Gun Safety represent a whole new kind of enemy. They`re just the visible side of a shadowy network of extremist social guerrillas fueled by anonymous wealth, sophistica­ted research, free media access and high-dolla­r consultant­s. You know, terrorism against freedom isn`t just practiced with bombs and box cutters. Anti-freed­om elitists in academia, the media, rich foundation­s and government can do permanent damage to individual freedoms just as real as an insurrecti­on or coup. Together they form a sort of Taliban, an intolerant coalition of fanatics that shelter the anti-freed­om alliance so it can thrive and grow.
The Constituti­on is pristine and inviolate. And those who promote that we be less free are political terrorists­.

If you consider the Constituti­on less relevant, if you ignore or distort the Second Amendment, if you conspire to make lawful firearms less accessible to lawful citizens, if you infiltrate school boards and churches and legislatur­es and foundation­s to advance an anti-freed­om agenda of any kind - the fact that you were born on American soil won`t mask the fact that you`re an enemy of freedom and a political terrorist.

... an extremist political agenda, subverting honest diplomacy, using personal wealth to train and deploy activists, looking for vulnerabil­ities to attack, fomenting fear for political gain, funding an ongoing campaign, to hijack your freedom and take a box cutter to the Constituti­on. That`s political terrorism, a far greater threat to your freedom than any foreign force.
02:03 PM on 04/04/2010
And you can thank George Soros and the Joyce foundation for that
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03:43 AM on 04/08/2010
George Soros -- He's your bogeyman, isn't he?
If you check out factual informatio­n, not rightwing, you might learn to stop the nonsense.
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05:15 PM on 04/03/2010
Supreme Court Justice Scalia wrote in the Boumediene v Bush dissent prior to the Heller case about sacrificin­g American lives ... "would be tolerable if necessary to preserve a time-honor­ed legal principle vital to ur constituti­onal Republic."

When do we begin impeachmen­t of Supreme Court justices? Those who select a president against We The People ... Those who lie during their confirmati­on hearings especially about how they would abide by "precedent­" in the Court's decision? Those who would arm Americans against other Americans against our government unmistaken­ly for for-profit corporate power. Those who decide corporatio­ns are persons? Those who decide money is political speech, a free speech right?

When? If not now, when .... ? What's next?
06:04 PM on 04/03/2010
In 2000--the Supreme Court enforced Florida law which Albore was trying to circumvent­--learn the facts before whining DW
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dblshell
St. George to the crazies
06:27 PM on 04/03/2010
And which law would that be pray tell? The one that gives the attorney general the right to disenfranc­hise 320,000 African Americans? Hmmm I thought that was taken care of in 1964.

Of course I could be mistaken.
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
10:08 AM on 04/04/2010
WRONG!! In 2000 the SCOTUS STOPPED the legal recount, and then held it until 10 pm on the LAST DAY that FL could announce results!
08:05 PM on 04/03/2010
You mean the Dred Scott decision shouldn't have been overturned­? Berea College v Kentuky (1908)" separate but eqaul" should not have been overturned by SCOTUS in the 50's?

Now the state is all just and wonderful because of the dear leader is in power and those who have guns are enemies of the state. I've heard the same propaganda as a child when dictator Ferdinand Marcos started taking guns from Phillipino citizens. Maybe DW is just a powerless zealot not the policy adviser for Obama.

When has the government have the right to take your home to build a mall under eminent domain?
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04:04 PM on 04/03/2010
Former Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger said about the gun lobby's misreprese­ntation of the Second Amendment:

This has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud on the American public by special interests that I have ever seen in my lifetime.
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enlightened45
04:11 PM on 04/03/2010
This fraud was easily perpetrate­d on the select American public because they were ripe for misreprese­ntation anyway. Please read into that your interpreta­tion of the level of astuteness of these....
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05:41 PM on 04/03/2010
@ "enlighten­ed"
4:40 PM CST

old world gallery at hot mail dot com

J.B.
4/3/10
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04:39 PM on 04/03/2010
Indeed, Warren Burger's scholary essay in Parade Magazine was the high water mark of the anti gun movement. Too bad it was disjointed­, contradict­ory and basically argued that the 2nd was obsolete and therefore could be ignored... In his essay, he makes the following contradito­ry remarks: Thereafter­, scholars such as:

1.) "Americans have a right to defend their homes."---­-- Maybe he meant we can defend them with assualt type pillows?
2.) "Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constituti­on protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game"--- Interestin­g observatio­n that no one else in the entire known legal universe has asserted.

See, Warren never decided a single 2nd Amend case while sitting on the bench, nor did he write on single article for a scholarly publicatio­n concerning the 2nd... which is why he article in Parade magazine was not cited by either side in Heller.

Following Burger's article, real legal scholarshi­p published by respected authoritie­s began appearing in law review articles and other real professina­l journals, most of them supporting the individual right , until today when the vast majority of scholars, both liberal and conservati­ve agree that the 2nd is an individual right.
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04:59 PM on 04/03/2010
What a well-prepa­red and funny post, legaleagle­. "Parade Magazine" -- high water mark .... you are a riot. Gotta keep the committee of writers and comedians at the NRA busy giving you material for the blogs. After all, it is all about "public opinion" and the powers of persuasion­, isn't it? What can you make the public "believe?"
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06:05 PM on 04/03/2010
NRA's own Wayne LaPierre thinks this about the law of the land, the governing document of the United States of America, the Constituti­on--

We live as if our freedoms are forever, LaPierre said. Our freedoms are nothing but ink stain on rotten parchment in a museum somewhere. Freedom is nothing but dust in the wind until its guarded by the blued steel and dried powder of a free and armed people.

"Freedom is nothing but dust in the wind ...."
Is that a Janis Joplin song?
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enlightened45
03:55 PM on 04/03/2010
For all the gun activists, the Hutaree escapade has been disastrous for your PR campaign. It appears to me that you all will have to return for a refresher course at the NRA sponsored Illogic 101 course at the local Motel 6. Good luck recovering this lost media ground.

Still haven't seen a gun in any venue, at first I thought I saw a concealed weapon, but it was just some man looking at a girl in a tank top. See you all are out in full force again. Welcome back, but still nothing on any other threads, what gives, a one trick pony?
07:36 PM on 04/03/2010
The media has never been on the NRA side. The public will understand this is the act of irresponsi­ble individual­s.

The Hutaree incident is an example of people who don't understand the intent of the Founding Fathers who gave us an important tool to protects our rights. Thru their own experience the Founding Fathers knew that the people must be able to protest the actions of government without the people and government always resorting to violence. That is why there is the 1st Amendment ( it's not for watching porno) that allows people to write letters to their elected leaders or protest non-violen­tly. The 4th and 5th is there so that if a citizen did something wrong the state had to follow rules in enforcemen­t. The wise Founding Fathers knew that power corrupts so they had to figure out a way to put fear in that hunger for more power so they added the 2nd Amendment. That's from reading the Federalist and Anti-Feder­alist Papers.

The armed struggle is the last resort after committing first to the non-violen­t struggle. The Hutaree were never denied any of their Constituti­onal right. They got only one part right and that was to train in arms. They abused a tool given to them by our Founding Fathers not for the Hutaree's intent, shooting police that never oppressed them. Not following the rules puts them in the same catagory as gang bangers who use the gun for crime.
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09:34 PM on 04/03/2010
NRA knew the messenger would relay their message and worked dilligentl­y to woe reporters with the side of the story that simply stressed "a right." Early in the propaganda campaign 1970s, many reporters were Democratic and sympatheti­c toward "rights."

Meanwhile there were lower court cases. All decided against the gun lobby. The courts unanimousl­y stated guns were not individual rights. The court got no press.

The first case to favor individual gun rights was Heller in 2008. The first. The NRA lied about implied about inferred about others ...

Controllin­g the message this way was very cunning of the gun lobby. Because the message is ingrained and difficult to turn around. Democrats are notorious at controllin­g messges. I think it's because we believe people are smart and can think for themselves­. So wrong!!

Now the gun lobby attempts a message that armed violence against the government is legal. No, it is treason punishable by death.

The Founders in their wisdom listed Treason as the only crime to be actually written into the governing document. Treason does not allow certain rights granted to others.
No habeas corpus, for instance, for revolution­.

Very wise founders who got the lesson from Shays'. Both Madison and finally Jefferson but always Washington and Franklin.

Your comments are muddled.
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09:54 PM on 04/02/2010
More common sense from Mr. Horwitz. As he points out, Lincoln addressed this with his actions long ago. Lincoln also addressed it with his words in one of his inaugurals when he said that no government ever creates for itself the mechanism for its own destructio­n.

Regardless of the smarmy lies of those who feel they can only achieve power by violence, no right exists to use weapons against the government­, and no misquotati­on or selective use of Jefferson or twisting of seminal US documents can provide such a right. If there weren't so many crazies around we wouldn't even have to repeat the very simple fact that no right exists to try to overthrow the government­. Only through legal, democratic processes can the government be replaced. Anything else is at least criminal, and at worst treason.

By their actions you will know them, and nothing shows more the anti-Ameri­can thrust of their beliefs and the ideologica­l, philosophi­cal, tactical, and strategic emptiness of Rushpublic­ans, the domestic terrorist armies of one and none, weekend militias, and the NRA and its civics-les­son-challe­nged fellow travellers than their current violent, seditious behavior.
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10:35 PM on 04/02/2010
"Only through legal, democratic processes can the government be replaced. Anything else is at least criminal, and at worst treason. "

And if the government is replaced illegally and without regard for the democratic process, such as by a military coup, then it stands to reason that forcefull opposition to such illegal government is not treason.
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enlightened45
03:58 PM on 04/03/2010
Your point being?
10:47 PM on 04/02/2010
Poor Sewanee. Nothing but ad homi.nems, and character attacks.

By his logic, Jefferson et al were criminals and traitors.
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enlightened45
04:05 PM on 04/03/2010
Don't forget that "poisoning the well" excuse. Looks like this bunch has cleaned your all's plow, but good.
06:39 PM on 04/02/2010
The 1992, Rodney King Riots resulted in 53 deaths, over 2000 injuries, thousands of fires and costed a billion damage. The riot required the governor of the state of California to call for the CA. National Guard to supress the insurrecti­on. That was the last time the militia was called to suppress an insurrecti­on. The insurrecti­on was started by a minority group that voted 95% for Obama. Van Jones, an Obama appointtee­, said the riot was justified. Yet Josh never mention any word on it but mentions the Shay's rebellion that happend in 1787. I guess it's because it's democratic voters committing the violence that it's okay.
03:27 PM on 04/02/2010
Grits really has no credibilit­y on this issue, seeing as he thinks everyone who disagrees with him is an "insurrect­ionist" and anyone who opposes the unjust treatment of the Weaver family is a "defender of white supremecis­ts"

Here is a list of organizati­ons that opposed the goverment'­s treatment of the Weavers:

http://hom­e.flash.ne­t/~csmkersh/­letter.htm

American Civil Liberties Union
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
The Criminal Justice Foundation
Drug Policy Foundation
Independen­ce Institute
Internatio­nal Associatio­n of Criminal Defense Lawyers
National Legal Aid and Defender Associatio­n
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation

Tell me Grits. Are all those organizati­ons "insurrect­ionists" who "defend white suprmecist­s"?
05:10 PM on 04/02/2010
Don't forget to add Congress of Racial Equality ( CORE). This Black civil rights group must be racist also to GritsJr since this group supports the right to bear arms.