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Josh Horwitz

Josh Horwitz

Posted: February 22, 2010 01:30 PM

"We Didn't Want Some Montana Militia Man As the Poster Boy For the Second Amendment"

What's Your Reaction:

As the Supreme Court prepares to hear oral arguments in a new Second Amendment case on March 2, an article from the Chicago Tribune has revealed some interesting details about how the lawsuit behind the case was framed to appeal to the broader public.

McDonald v. City of Chicago challenges the city's 28-year-old handgun ban, which remains standing after a similar law in the District of Columbia was overturned almost two years ago in the case of D.C. v. Heller. Virginia attorney Alan Gura--who previously argued the Heller case before the Supreme Court--selected the plaintiffs in McDonald through a meticulous process. With financial backing from the Second Amendment Foundation, Gura conducted e-mail, phone, and face-to-face interviews with about a dozen Chicagoans. "You want good people who can tell the story well and in a way that the public can connect with," Gura explained.

Gura eventually settled on Adam Orlov a white, 40-year-old libertarian; David Lawson, a white, 44-year-old resident who keeps a collection of old guns outside the city; Colleen Lawson, Lawson's 51-year-old wife who became interested in Second Amendment rights after an attempted burglary at their home in 2006; and lead plaintiff Otis McDonald.

McDonald, a 76 year-old African American, came to Gura's attention after he attended several gun rights rallies in Springfield, where he recalls he was one of the few people there from Chicago and "probably the only black person." For McDonald, self-defense was a primary motive for participating in the lawsuit. "I would like to have a handgun so I could keep it right by my bed, just in case somebody might want to come in my house," he says. McDonald notes that he has been physically threatened in his neighborhood and his house has been burglarized three times.

The loaded shotgun he keeps in his home has apparently not been sufficient to deter such crimes. In fact, criminals have tended to target McDonald's home when he is not present--they have stolen shotguns from the house on multiple occasions. McDonald shrugs at the suggestion that criminals would steal handguns from his home if he prevails before the Supreme Court. "They get all the guns they want anyway," he states equivocally, without explaining how he might limit his own role as a supplier.

Despite his dislike for trigger locks and gun safes, McDonald was an upgrade over Gura's previous lead plaintiff in the D.C. v. Heller case. Despite the best efforts of Gura and Cato Institute attorney Robert Levy to screen out "gun nuts" who would be seen as "looney tunes," they got one in lead plaintiff Dick Anthony Heller.

Heller was kept on a short leash with the media before the case was decided- the public knew only that he was a private security guard in the District who bristled at not being able to bring his handgun home from work. After the case was decided in June 2008, however, Heller made his extreme views about the Second Amendment known. On September 18 of that year, he testified before the D.C. Council's Committee on Public Safety and the Judiciary and stated that "law-abiding citizens" shouldn't be subject to burdensome gun laws like background checks and regulations concerning the safe storage of firearms around children. Heller also declared that "ARMED CITIZENS" in their "individual neighborhoods" should be the ones to protect D.C. in case "suicide terrorists DO attact [sic] our city." Heller saw himself as a frontline combatant in this fantasized "terrorist ground war in DC."

Still, plaintiffs like Heller and McDonald at least have clean criminal records, and that is Gura's first priority. The first time in history that a federal appellate court declared the Second Amendment was an "individual right" was in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals case of United States v. Emerson in 2001. The defendant in that case, Dr. Timothy Joe Emerson, was the subject of a restraining order. He had abused his wife and threatened to kill a friend of hers. During one heated argument, Emerson "cocked [a] pistol and pointed it at his wife and daughter." He was indicted in December 1998 for possessing a firearm while under a protective order, a violation of federal law. The appeals court eventually ruled that the law prohibiting Emerson from possessing firearms was constitutional. And although the court's "individual right" notation about the Second Amendment (in dicta) was a landmark legal win for the gun lobby, it was certainly not one the public could rally behind. Emerson was no poster boy for gun rights with his predilection for violent, unhinged behavior.

Without question, Gura and his colleagues have made significant strides in the past nine years in selecting plaintiffs who can sell their extreme view of the Second Amendment to the mainstream media and American public. This is not only the case with Otis McDonald, but also with the plaintiffs handpicked by Gura to challenge the District of Columbia's current ban on carrying guns in public.

The truth, however, is that even today Emerson remains more typical of plaintiffs seeking to expand the limits of the Second Amendment. Since the Heller decision was issued, there have been at least 190 challenges to gun laws and gun prosecutions on Second Amendment grounds. These challenges have included at least 59 cases involving a convicted felon in possession of a firearm, 17 cases of domestic abusers in possession of a firearm, and 22 cases of drug traffickers or substance abusers in possession of a firearm.

Thankfully, almost all of them have failed. Hopefully, the courts--and the American public--will continue to see through the gun lobby's carefully orchestrated PR offensive and draw sensible limits on the scope of the Second Amendment in the interest of public safety. As the author of the gun lobby's beloved amendment once stated, "Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as the abuses of power."

 

Follow Josh Horwitz on Twitter: www.twitter.com/CSGV

As the Supreme Court prepares to hear oral arguments in a new Second Amendment case on March 2, an article from the Chicago Tribune has revealed some interesting details about how the lawsuit behind t...
As the Supreme Court prepares to hear oral arguments in a new Second Amendment case on March 2, an article from the Chicago Tribune has revealed some interesting details about how the lawsuit behind t...
 
 
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11:09 AM on 02/27/2010
The way marketing strategies are used in presenting these cases is troubling. On the one hand, our society has grown up with marketing and should have the experience to see thru the misuses and shams it can create. On the other hand, we seem to blissfully accept whatever sugar-coated idea we're handed. If that doesn't work, start a screaming match! We're so easy to manipulate.

Why don't we smarten up? I believe we can.
12:00 PM on 02/27/2010
What Gura and company are doing is standard practice in this type of legal action. The lawyers who litigated Roe v Wade deliberately picked someone sympathetic instead of a drug addicted prostitute.
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12:44 PM on 02/27/2010
"The way marketing strategies are used in presenting these cases is troubling. "

Do you also find it troubeling that three symathetic black women were handpicked by Thurgood Marshall as plaintiffs to contest segregation in public transportation in a major civil rights action entitled Browder v. Gayle?

The first one choosen was a 15 year old school girl, Claudette Colvin... and, of course the coup de gras was the lead Plaintiff... a pregnant houswife named Aurelia Browder.
10:11 PM on 02/25/2010
Subversive claimed that the NRA opposed the 1968 GCA. He has yet to provide any evidence and, like most gun control advocates on HP, is attempting to push these claims off the page and change the subject.
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GritsJr
03:28 PM on 03/02/2010
They did oppose it at the time (although not with the venom they now oppose gun control legislation) and Charlton Heston backed it.
09:42 PM on 02/25/2010
There is only one reason any lawyer steps into federal court: You want a declaratory judgment in favor of your client. Meanwhile, you always file a motion for injunctive relief in the interim, asking the court to to order a federal official or agency to do something or to cease from doing something that harms your client. This is what the NRA was doing. It ain't difficult to grasp and every lawyer who practices before the federal bar does it. A legal secretary can transcribe the federal law and get hung up on this word or that; the good lawyer always knows the law and searches for a federal official or agency that is ACTING BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE LAW as this is the key to allowing injunctive relief to be granted and stop the harm. Once a judge grants that, the law in question now becomes unsettled pending the judge's ruling on the merits. Hopefully, SCOTUS does it as there are no more forums to appeal to. And if SCOTUS strikes down a law in whole or in part, it's bye bye law.
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10:46 PM on 02/25/2010
Subversive wrote: "There is only one reason any lawyer steps into federal court: You want a declaratory judgment in favor of your client."

Funny, I have been in federal court plenty of times and hardly any of them were for purposes of seeking declaratory relief... let alone seeking an injunction.

Subversive wrote: "This is what the NRA was doing"

One more time... please cite the specific portion of the Brady Law which you claim the NRA was trying to have invalidated. I am waiting....
05:13 PM on 02/26/2010
Probably the closest I can think of is challenging unfunded mandates in the Brady Bill--the feds requiring state and local agencies to provide services without the feds paying for said services
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GritsJr
03:32 PM on 03/02/2010
The NRA sought to have the Supreme Court throw out the entire Brady Law in the case of Printz v. United States, telling the Court, "the whole Statute must be voided."

147 Brief Amicus Curiae of the National Rifle Association of America in Support of Petitioners, Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997) (Nos. 95-1478, 95-1503).
09:29 PM on 02/25/2010
The short answer is NOTHING. A Republican-controlled Congress would never have tried to revive a rewritten Brady law. Felons and mentally ill people then would fall under existing state law or other federal law, none of which would contain the Brady regime for record collecting. Ineffective or weak state laws would never be able to catch all felons and mentally ill people, and prevent them from owning or possessing firearms.
09:52 PM on 02/25/2010
"Ineffective or weak state laws would never be able to catch all felons and mentally ill people, and prevent them from owning or possessing firearms."

Are you suggesting that the actual laws would be weak or the enforcement of those laws would be weak.

Your hypothetical scenario begs the question.
09:56 PM on 02/25/2010
You STILL don't understand how NICS or background checks work, do you? The records keeping had nothing to do w/ either. Just the maintaining of records of legal transactions. The records kept of denied transactions were kept and were never in question.

Why don't you tell me how many convictions there have been for denied attempts to purchase (itself a crime) since the Brady bill went into effect?
08:51 PM on 02/25/2010
I acknowledge that the NRA was not seeking injunctive relief for felons or mentally ill people. But if the federal court had granted relief or ultimately struck down the record-keeping provision of Brady, which the NRA desired, is it not the case that Congress would necessarily have been forced to revisit the record provision of Brady to bring it in compliance with the federal court ruling? And would this not have brought the entire record-keeping regime of Brady into a state of confusion? If SCOTUS granted cert upon petition by the NRA and struck down the provision, would the foundation of Brady begin to collapse? And what would the Republican-controlled Congress have done with a law that SCOTUS had ruled invalid?
09:41 PM on 02/25/2010
If a prohibited person tries to buy a firearm of any sort, a crime has been committed.

Destruction of that evidence(NICS record) is already covered in other areas of law so any confusion would be quite laughable.

The question remains, why keep records of APPROVED NICS?
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10:53 PM on 02/25/2010
"But if the federal court had granted relief or ultimately struck down the record-keeping provision of Brady, "

The record-keeping requirement of Brady was that there would be no record-keeping and that the records would be destroyed. 18 USC 922(t)(2).

Please cite the specific portion of the Brady Law which you claim the NRA was trying to invalidate and then explain how such an invalidation would adversely effect the application of the Brady Law...

still waiting.
10:38 AM on 02/26/2010
"When someone argues with fools, it raises the question of whether he is a fool himself."

Good night and good luck.
08:46 PM on 02/25/2010
[From NRA v. RENO ]

"The complaint and motion for preliminary injunction were filed November 30, 1998, the effective date of section 102 of the Brady Violence Prevention Act P.L. 103-159, 107 Stat. 1536 (1993). Plaintiffs [NRA] sought a declaration that 18 U.S.C. section 922(t)(2), [Brady Law] section 103(h) and section 103(i) of the Act, and section 621 of Title VI of P.L. 105-277 prohibited the FBI and State Points of Contact (POCs) from keeping records on persons who the NICS determined may lawfully receive firearms. Plaintiffs claimed that 28 CFR section 25.9(b), which allowed the FBI to keep such records for 6 months, and 28 CFR section 25.9(d), which allowed certain State POC's to keep such records indefinitely, were void and should be enjoined.
[The NRA argued] the regulation is void under section 103(i)(l) of the Act, which provides that no federal agency may 'require that any record' generated by NICS 'be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States . . ." The regulation is also void under section 103(i)(2), which prohibits any federal department from using NTECS 'to establish any system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions,' except regarding ineligible persons. The 'audit log' is a registration of firearm owners and transactions with a six-month duration.
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10:55 PM on 02/25/2010
Yep, too bad you do not understand what you just cut and pasted, huh?
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GritsJr
03:36 PM on 03/02/2010
Classic NRA paranoia. God forbid the government should be able to effectively maintain purchase records in case these guns later end up on crime scenes. Forget doing justice to the victims' families, let's protect "law-abiding" gun owners above all else.

Under Ashcroft, the NRA got the feds to destroy approved background check records after 24 hours. That has led to hundreds of cases per year where people who are mistakingly approved get to keep their guns.
07:44 PM on 02/25/2010
Let's take a look at another one of subversives red herrings as he deliberately tries to be dishonest w/ Scalia's wording:

S:d) that longstanding prohibitions are also permitted;

The actual wording:
"The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. "

So by the actual wording of the case, I support the longstanding prohibition on the possession of felons and the mentally ill.

Now subversive has yet to show where the NRA is trying to repeal that like he claimed there were.
08:03 PM on 02/25/2010
I would give this answer a C. You did respond to the question which is always a good idea and you quoted the case and dealt with the question I asked. Since we agree now that some narrow restrictions on firearms are permissible, particularly the restrictions on felons and mentally ill, which Scalia appears to support. the larger question is whether state gun laws survive given Scalia's absence of level of review.
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08:35 PM on 02/25/2010
"the larger question is whether state gun laws survive given Scalia's absence of level of review."

They will to the extent that they do not violate the 2nd Amend.

As to the "level of review", your previous answers to other questions leads me to believe you do not know what this means. There are 3 levels of review. The Heller opinion specifically rejected one of those 3.

Name the level of review rejected by Heller and describe the two remaining levels of review. Then use the analogy of freedom of speech in which these two levels of review are both employed and which are still open pursuant to Heller to anticipate properly how they will be employed for 2nd Amend purposes.

I really do not expect you to be able to answer that question, as you seem to believe 28 CFR § 25.9(d) is a reference to some portion of the Brady Law.... Lets see if you can surprise me, K?
08:51 PM on 02/25/2010
As LE45 said, it depends on the law. I'm sure Illinois' FOID law will remain while the Chicago handgun ban will fall. I can surmise that many 'assault weapon' bans will be struck down along w. other laws that are defacto bans or restrictions based on arbitrary decisions by local or state authorities.
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07:24 PM on 02/25/2010
Subversive wrote: "The NRA sued Reno to have PARTS OF THE LAW DECLARED INVALID."

BZZT!! wrong.

Please state the exact provisions of the Brady Law did the NRA seek to have declared invalid. BE SPECIFIC! Cite the exact language of the supposed statute which the NRA, according to you, sought to be declared invalid.

Bet you can't do it... LOL

I will wait...
07:35 PM on 02/25/2010
I don't have to, Legaleagle45, Thirdpower did it for me. Please check prior comments.
07:45 PM on 02/25/2010
Yet you originally claimed they were. Were you ly.ing or ignorant?
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07:48 PM on 02/25/2010
"I don't have to, Legaleagle45, Thirdpower did it for me. Please check prior comments."

No he did not... try again. He cited 28 CFR § 25.9(d). That is not part of the Brady Law, and it isn't even a real statute.

Wanna try again?
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05:49 PM on 02/25/2010
.Subversive wrote: " Here's a little something for LegalEagle45:

COOL!

Subversive wrote: "The NRA sued Attorney General Janet Reno in NRA v. Reno (99-5270)"

Dang, I thought you might have something I did not already know.

"to overturn, or in the alternative, strike down part of Brady which mandated the NCIS to keep audit logs which kept background checks on individuals, namely felons and mentally ill individuals."

BZZT! wrong. The issue involved the keeping of audit logs on transactions which were APPROVED (ie did not involve felons or mentally ill persons). Those situations wherein the applicant failed the background check are subject to possibly criminal action and those records are not destroyed... The Brady law specifically prohibits the maintenance of records to establish a system of registration. The Brady law directs the agency to run checks to insure that the system is not being abused (ie someone using the sytem not in connection with the purchase of a firearm, but to check up on their next door neighbor). The Brady law also requires the destruction of this info relating to the background checks for APPROVED transactions so as to prevent the creation of a quasi gun registration system.

The issue involved the AG maintaining the audit logs for an extended period of time and not necessary to insure the "integrity" of the privacy protections of the NICS data base.

Wanna try again?
05:55 PM on 02/25/2010
From Reno:

2. Enter a declaratory judgment that 28 CFR § 25.9(d) is invalid to the extent it purports to exempt state and local law enforcement units serving as POCs from destroying records generated by the NICS system on lawful transferees to the extent the records are "created and maintained pursuant to independent state law regarding firearms transactions."

'Lawful transferees'.
06:57 PM on 02/25/2010
The key language is that the specific provision you cited should be declared "invalid." That is precisely what the NRA wanted. Good job finding that.
06:08 PM on 02/25/2010
Sorry, legaleagle45, you get an D. First, you did not respond to my questions, which a good lawyer always does and a rather poor habit for any lawyer to fall into, Second, Brady set up background checks which would reveal felonies and mental illnesses, so has to keep these people from obtaining firearms--this is the purpose of the provision in Brady in the first place. You and I both know what would have happened had Brady or that specific provision been struck down--which is what the NRA ultimately sought, the logs being the vehicle by which the federal court could do so--i.e. it would be left to the states to handle these matters, meaning some would and some would not, meaning patchwork laws and some people falling through the system Brady had created. The registration issue is a red herring.
06:12 PM on 02/25/2010
You haven't even read Reno, have you? It only related to the maintaining for records for "APPROVED" transactions.
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06:38 PM on 02/25/2010
"Sorry, legaleagle45, you get an D. First, you did not respond to my questions"

You receive an F because you do not know what you are talking about and can not understand plain english.

"Second, Brady set up background checks which would reveal felonies and mental illnesses, so has to keep these people from obtaining firearms"

And I never said anything different.

"You and I both know what would have happened had Brady or that specific provision been struck down"

You evidently do not. What it would mean is that records of approved transactions would have had to be destroyed.

"the logs being the vehicle by which the federal court could do so"

Do what? deny an already approved transaction? You really need to read the case, because you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Come back when you have read this and UNDERSTAND it:

http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/opinions/200007/99-5270a.txt

Key provision:

"According to the NRA, the Brady Act requires immediate destruction of personal
information relating to lawful firearm transactions. The Attorney General interprets the statute differently, arguing that temporary retention of data for at most six months is necessary to audit the background check system to ensure both its
accuracy and privacy.

Do you understan what the words "lawful firearms transaction" means?"

Continued...
05:14 PM on 02/25/2010
As subversive attempts to push his claims that the NRA supports arming felons and mentally ill through lawsuits he named as well as incorrectly citing numerous laws, let's repeat LE45's response to him:

The Chicago area lawsuits were all consolidated and are now pending in front of SCOTUS as McDonald v Chicago.... all dealt with handgun bans by various municipalities in Illinois.

The SF case incolved a ban by the the public housing authority of the posession of all firearms by tenants. SF settled, removed the ban and paid attorney fees to the lawyers representing the NRA.

"The NRA then filed a suit in Seattle announced proudly by the NRA itself on its own website ."
The case involved washingtons ban on the sale of firearms to legal immigrants.

"The progeny of Heller McDonald v. Chicago, Nordyke v. King, Maloney v. Rice,"

Nordyke v King was initiated looooong before Heller. It has gone up and down from district to appeals and back again over several years... the most recent round involved the effect of Heller on the prior decison. The 9th Circ has put a hold on the case pending a decision on incorporation in McDonald. The case involves the ban on gun shows on county fair grounds. Maloney v Rice is not an NRA case... it involves a pro per litigant contesting the NY ban on certain martial arts equipment known as nunchucks (sp?).
06:23 PM on 02/25/2010
Sorry, Thirdpower, you receive an F. Your answer was nonresponsive to the issues I presented, a bad habit for legal-minded people. Second, the real purpose the NRA is working to, is to get state gun laws repealed or liberalized. Because a state law can be more restrictive than a federal law, but can never be less restrictive than the federal law, the NRA would like to have a patchwork system of state laws which are contradictory and wildly at odds with each other, some strict, some much less restrictive--the perfect situation in which to file cert with the conservative SCOTUS to have more restrictive state laws struck down altogether via Heller under a new standard of review which Scalia could not be bothered to enunciate in that case. Since there now is effectively no standard of review, SCOTUS can now rule on a case-by-case basis, and perhaps start chipping away at Brady, the real target (pardon the pun) of the NRA. (The ACLU makes a living doing this with the First Amendment.) The real question is whether Scalia will uphold the "longstanding prohibitions" he mentioned in Heller.

[Please sign up for the re-take.]
06:34 PM on 02/25/2010
ah, another claim of 'non-responsive'. Translation: You know you're FOS so you're going to throw out more non-sequiters w/ no relevance to your original claims.
07:23 PM on 02/25/2010
See, here's the bit sub. I wasn't 'responding' to your questions below. You know, the ones you posted to try and push your earlier claims off the page. I was re-iterating the fact that you have NO idea what you're talking about when it comes to firearm law, legislation and litigation.
03:57 PM on 02/25/2010
Attention all good Con Law students, Odinseye, LegalEagle45, and Thirdpower. Before comments close, here's a good Con Law question for you all:

We can all now accept that Heller is the supreme law of the land. That being the case, since Justice Antonin Scalia ruled:
a) the Second Amendment is not unlimited;
b) that the Amendment cannot be read to protect the right of citizens to carry arms for any sort of confrontation;
c) that only arms that have some reasonable relationship to the preservation of efficiency of a well regulated militia are permitted;
d) that longstanding prohibitions are also permitted;
e)and that dangerous and unusual weapons are also prohibited;
this raises the following question: Does the gun lobby consider these to be acceptable and commonsense restrictions allowing states and the feds to regulate firearms, or are these restrictions unacceptable, which would place you outside the mainstream of current Second Amendment jurisprudence?
[All answers must be written in ink, I do not grade on a curve, you have 3 hours, no glancing at the person next to you, you may begin.]
05:13 PM on 02/25/2010
More Red Herrings on your plate Subversive?
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05:21 PM on 02/25/2010
"a) the Second Amendment is not unlimited;"

Agreed, no right is unlimited including the 2nd.

."b) that the Amendment cannot be read to protect the right of citizens to carry arms for any sort of confrontation;"

I think you may be misreading Heller somewhat... but maybe not. Heller indicates that the "bear right" is the right to carry arms in the case of confrontation. The verbage "cannot be read to protect the right of citizens to carry arms for any sort of confrontation" is quite similar to saying that the right is not unlimited and that some restrictions on carrying arms are permissable, just as the limitation upon the type of arms protected is not unlimited.

"c) that only arms that have some reasonable relationship to the preservation of efficiency of a well regulated militia are permitted;"

No problem there, but I hope you are familiar with the source of that language and the test to be employed with respect thereto. The language is from Miller and miller, in turn relied upon a case called Amyette v State. If you have read both cases you may continue, if not I will fill you in when you make a mistake.

"e)and that dangerous and unusual weapons are also prohibited;"

Depends upon what you mean by dangerous and unusual weapons
"d) that longstanding prohibitions are also permitted;"

Depends upon the longstanding prohibitions.

Continued...
09:25 AM on 02/25/2010
I take everything the New York Times writes about gun control with a grain of salt. They are so anti-gun they can't portray a non-bias artical. they are just like Diane Sawyers report about the VA Tech shooting called if I only had a gun. I was outragged when I saw that piece. Using kids with big baggy shirts, a few hours of training and then using an FBI weapons instructor as the shooter. What a terribly unfair picture she painted and she got absolutely blasted on the website for it, rightfully so I might add. I joined in on it and I even invited her to par take in a similar situation but let me supply the students that I know who have CHP's and then put a shooter of the same ability entering into the room and see what the out come would be? Guess what, she never took me up on my offer.......wonder why? HUMMMMMMMMM
04:08 PM on 02/25/2010
How do you get "outragged?"
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05:23 PM on 02/25/2010
"How do you get "outragged?""

When you are competing in a musical competition with Scott Joplin.
09:50 PM on 02/25/2010
I disagree about the NY Times.

Yes, their editorials on gun issues often are hysterical nonsense, but they usually do a decent job of keeping their reporting fairly straight. This week's story may be an example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/us/24guns.html

In addition, I regularly find facts in the Times that refute the misinformation of gun control advocates -- facts I sometimes do not find in other papers.
10:38 PM on 02/24/2010
Senators' Effort On Gun Control Includes N.R.A.

The New York Times
June 12, 1991

Excerpts:

The rifle association has adamantly opposed any waiting period for buying handguns, but its lobbying efforts failed last month when the House passed a bill calling for a seven-day wait. Mr. Mitchell's compromise proposal combines a waiting period and a plan favored by the gun group that would require background checks of prospective gun buyers.

(Let's read that again): "a plan favored by the gun group that would require background checks of prospective gun buyers"

The House bill, called the Brady bill after James S. Brady, who was wounded in the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, did not mandate background checks.

As part of the closed negotiations, the rifle association, the most formidable opponent of the crime package, is asking Senate Democrats for several concessions, including an amendment that would set a date -- perhaps within 18 months -- by which the provision for a waiting period would expire.

The rifle association has also enlisted the aid of Senator Ted Stevens, Republican of Alaska, to sponsor an alternative, still not laid out, that might mirror a measure it promoted heavily in the House. That bill, sponsored by Representative Harley O. Staggers Jr., Democrat of West Virginia, would have required instant background checks on prospective gun buyers at the point of sale.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/12/us/senators-effort-on-gun-control-includes-nra.html?pagewanted=1
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GritsJr
08:48 AM on 02/25/2010
By 1991, the NRA had already been fighting to kill the Brady Bill for more than 3 years, and was steadily losing that battle. Smartly, they recognized that, and sought concessions in a bill they knew the couldn't stop.

Of course, here is what they told gun owners in American Rifleman after the Brady Law was passed:

“The executioner’s tool is the Brady bill – now the Brady law. … [T]hey’ll go house to
house, kicking in the law-abiding gun owners’ doors….”

And then, in a fundraising letter, Wayne LaPierre of the NRA stated,“The Brady Law has become one more tool that government agents are using to deny the Constitutional rights of law abiding citizens."

The NRA they launched lawsuits in 9 different states that sought to have the entire Brady Law voided. They were unsuccessful in that attempt, but the courts did agree that the federal government couldn't compel the state to submit records to the FBI's NICS database. That has weakened the background check system significantly, to this day.

Finally, the NRA has spend the past 15 years since the Brady Law was enacted demonizing, vilifying and insulting the two Americans who WERE the force behind the bill, Jim and Sarah Brady.
10:15 AM on 02/25/2010
GritsJr: By 1991, the NRA had already been fighting to kill the Brady Bill for more than 3 years, and was steadily losing that battle. Smartly, they recognized that, and sought concessions in a bill they knew the couldn't stop.

The 1991 NY Timesarticle nonetheless decisively refutes the revisionist lies that gun control advocates have tried to spread about the NRA not having supported background checks.

The law did not pass for 3 more years -- why? Read the article: The Bradys vowed NOT to compromise -- and tried to depict the willingness of the NRA to compromise (the theme of the NY Times' article) as weakness. If you are looking for blame, look no further than the Bradys and their allies.

GritsJr: Finally, the NRA has spend the past 15 years since the Brady Law was enacted demonizing, vilifying and insulting the two Americans who WERE the force behind the bill, Jim and Sarah Brady.

And for those same 15 years, the Bradys have been pushing a mutitude of other ways to attack the right of gun ownership, AND the Bradys and others have been demonizing, vilifying and insulting (and lying about) the NRA and its members.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
11:14 AM on 02/25/2010
"The NRA they launched lawsuits in 9 different states that sought to have the entire Brady Law voided."

False. They were involved in several cases which addressed very specific parts of Brady and what was being done with it. For example, violations of the 10th Amendment.

The NRA has actuallytaken several steps to try to strengthen background checks but have been stymied by the ACLU and by the very people who lionize HCI.

There have been many cases where the background check system has been misused. Some states were even using it to go after people with unpaid traffic tickets.

As for demonizing Jim and Sarah Brady, the NRA has been demonizing Sarah for a long time, starting many years before the passage of the Brady Act and with good reason.
04:12 PM on 02/25/2010
The NRA employed a favored tactic: Knowing Brady had the votes to pass, the NRA switched tactics from total opposition to favoring a different, weaker law, which only had the effect of outraging the membership, and effectively conceded the NRA's defeat on the whole issue. The NRA then took the battle up in court by suing AG Janet Reno in a string of cases.
09:18 PM on 02/25/2010
Subversive: "The NRA employed a favored tactic: Knowing Brady had the votes to pass, the NRA switched tactics from total opposition to favoring a different, weaker law"

That seems to be contradicted by the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/12/us/senators-effort-on-gun-control-includes-nra.html?pagewanted=1

In1991 the NRA "adamantly opposed any waiting period" but did back "a plan favored by the gun group that would require background checks of prospective gun buyers" and had already "promoted heavily in the House" requiring "instant background checks on prospective gun buyers at the point of sale. "

Again, that was in 1991.

Because the waiting period was not dropped, the NRA opposed the bill and killed it for 3 more years -- so much for "knowing Brady had the votes to pass." The law did not pass for 3 more years because, as the Times reported, it was the Bradys who vowed NOT to compromise -- and who tried to depict the willingness of the NRA to compromise (which was the theme of the NY Times' article) as weakness. If you are looking for blame, look no further than the Bradys and their allies.

The NRA continued to oppose anything with a waiting period, but I liked the compromise put forth in 1994: a waiting period that sunsetted in favor of instant check. I disagreed with the NRA and supported that -- and the bill would not have passed without the sunset provision.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GritsJr
03:51 PM on 03/02/2010
They knew they were going to lose on the Brady Law and extracted what concessions they could from lawmakers. In the process, their opposition delayed the enactment of the law by 7 years and allows god knows how many criminals and other prohibited purchasers to buy guns during that time period.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
10:23 PM on 02/24/2010
So, Sub doesn't know what the 1968 GCA did, what the 1993 Brady Act did, or what the 1994 AWB did.
03:45 PM on 02/25/2010
Nonresponsive.
05:44 PM on 02/25/2010
Accurate.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
08:31 PM on 02/26/2010
Well, let's see, you incorrectly thought the Brady Act prohibited mentally ill people from purchasing or possessing firearms. You failed to realize the 1968 GCA prohibited mentally ill people from purchasing or possessing firearms. And you mistakenly thought the 1994 AWB affected full-auto firearms.

You pretty well struck out.
08:06 PM on 02/24/2010
what you are implying is that the NRA supports crime? Is that really what you are saying? The stance of every responsible gun owner like myself is that the criminals should be locked up for their crimes and not released. Remember when there were adds on TV that said if you commit a crime with weapon it was 10 years no question asked? where did that go? Now, let's talk about the Dems allowing criminals in jail to vote..........hum
03:45 PM on 02/25/2010
Nonresponsive.
05:44 PM on 02/25/2010
Yes you are.