Josh Nelson

Josh Nelson

Posted: January 9, 2009 11:24 AM

T. Boone Pickens Thinks Obama Will Fall for the Pickens Plan

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Originally posted at The Seminal.

Pickens came out with a statement yesterday on Obama's economic stimulus plan speech. Here it is (via email, emphasis mine):

"President-Elect Obama's comments in his speech this morning represent an important first step in solving our nation's energy crisis and getting our economy moving again. Investing in alternative energy, focusing on conservation and rebuilding our power grid to deliver that energy to every corner of our country are critical components of this effort. As the new Congress and new Administration begin work, it will be critical that they focus on the need to dramatically reduce our dependency on foreign oil, which strangles our economy and threatens our national security.

President-Elect Obama made it clear that he also understands the important role that transportation will play in solving our energy crisis and I am confident that he will recognize that as we reduce our imports of foreign oil, there the only domestic resources available are natural gas and plug-in batteries that can have an immediate impact on this effort. A program focused on renewable energy, conservation, improving the grid and replacing foreign oil with domestic resources in our transportation system is something that I believe will create hundreds of thousands of jobs and revitalizes our economy."

So Pickens thinks our best shots to reduce dependence on foreign oil (a straw man, but that is a separate point) are plug-ins and natural gas vehicles. As is often the case, he is half-right. Investing federal dollars in a natural gas vehicle scheme would be a foolish and counterproductive blunder of epic proportions. Plug-in electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, on the other hand, are an essential component of securing a sustainable energy future.

In the long-run, a transition to nearly 100% all-electric vehicles, plugging into a grid powered by clean and renewable sources, is the only option. In the short run, here are a few relatively easy things we can do to decrease oil consumption (and imports):

1. Mandate CAFE standards that increase every single year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax.
3. Invest in public transportation.
4. Offer tax credits and other incentives for consumers who purchase zero (and low) emissions vehicles.

Fortunately, Barack Obama is not as gullible as Sarah Palin, and won't be falling for the Pickens Plan. Hopefully he is wise enough to emphasize building new railroads (supertrain!) , rather than more unnecessary highways.



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Originally posted at The Seminal. Pickens came out with a statement yesterday on Obama's economic stimulus plan speech. Here it is (via email, emphasis mine):"President-Elect Obama's comments in his...
Originally posted at The Seminal. Pickens came out with a statement yesterday on Obama's economic stimulus plan speech. Here it is (via email, emphasis mine):"President-Elect Obama's comments in his...
 
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Mr. Nelson: You have not made a case as to why you oppose the Pickens Plan, other than the thought that T. Boone Pickens might make some money.
Are you opposed to creating more wind farms to produce renewable electricity? Wind farms make up the core of the proposal.
Do you favor using foreign diesel fuel, rather than using domestic natural gas, for use in the trucks that transport most of our goods? The Pickens Plan proposes that we use domestic natural gas for trucks, rather than imported diesel.
Would you rather not replace coal and natural gas electricity plants with wind? The Pickens plan suggests that electricity should be produced with wind and solar.
It really just seems that you resent that Pickens may make some money off the plan.
You call for "a transition to nearly 100% all-electric vehicles, plugging into a grid powered by clean and renewable sources."
The simple fact is that we cannot now (if ever) convert to a nearly 100% all-electric vehicle infrastructure. We do not have now, nor are we likely to have, ever, enough copper to make that transition. Your goal is unattainable, until a replacement for copper in electric motors can be found. Unlike copper, we have an abundance of aluminum and iron, which will allow us to continue to manufacture internal combustion engines and run them on natural gas or hydrogen.
The fact is that we need a myriad of solutions. Not just BEV. Not just CNG.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 PM on 01/23/2009
- sheila I'm a Fan of sheila 41 fans permalink

josh, while you are at it, the companion plan must include the following for electricity:

1. financing for every home or business owner who wants to install PV or microwind on their property - follow CA's AB 811, so the loan attaches to the property, the govt gets first lien, and payments are tax deductible. where possible, OVERSIZED systems should be encouraged so that excess can feed into the grid.

2. feed in tariffs for every kwH of clean power WE produce and feed into the grid. time for Big Energy to stop being a monopolistic, mercenary, wilderness killing Robber Baron. we need to participate and get paid fairly.

3. no more money for low-income bill subsidies - replace those programs with FREE EFFICIENCY AND CONSERVATION UPGRADES for low income ratepayers. the subsidies are a utility scam to keep consumption high. bad for people. bad for planet.

4. a total moratorium on new remote power plants and transmission lines. upgrades and smart grids in existing corridors should be made, and point of use renewable energy solutions should be pursued. we cannot destroy our ecosystems to protect our planet. it's insane and wrong, both economically and ecologically.

5. remove efficiency, conservation and ratepayer-owned renewable generation programs from utility oversight and place in state Energy Commissions. utilities have totally and intentionally failed to make these programs work (uh, foxes? henhouse.) and we need to get serious.

thank you for thinking outside the Box. Big Energy is the problem, not the solution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 01/12/2009
- texfly I'm a Fan of texfly 17 fans permalink
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"Big Energy" doesn't have to be the problem if "We the People" own a big chunk of it. Now, while there is very little investment in renewable energy sources, we have a unique opportunity to build and own large portions of energy supply and distribution systems (see http://www.pennies4power.org ). By creating the right organization to oversee investment "bIg" could be the solution. Without it, the problematic Big Energy problems will reemerge ... I guarantee!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 01/12/2009
- kozy I'm a Fan of kozy 15 fans permalink

I agree completely with this article. Electric cars and hybrid vehicles plus a higher tax on gas and higher yearly mileage standards is a great start. High speed trains (catching up with the half-century we are behind advanced countries) would also do wonders to reduce highway congestion, save fuel, and reduce the overcrowded and semi-dysfunctional airline transportation system. A 300 mph rail system, with a few stops along the way, should get you from A to B up to 500 miles, quicker than a commercial airline. For doubters, be sure to include the endless security check time, baggage check- in and baggage pickup times, plus other waits at airports (like the average flight delay or arrival) in your time calculations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 01/11/2009
- texfly I'm a Fan of texfly 17 fans permalink
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The Pickens Plan is rather self-serving as are most other shemes that invoke tax credits and similar investment incentives. Suffice it to say that very few of us would benefit much from them ... we simply don't make enough to get the bang for our limited bucks as Pickens does. As for methane, we also have to deal with global warming don't forget. Scientisits are now suggesting that feedback mechanisms will increase CO2 levels faster than models now predict. If that's true we'll have to worry about permafrost and tundra adding large amounts of methane to the atmosphere to accelertae warming even more. My vote is for SEGS and wind and an all electric vehicles ( http://www.pennies4power.org ) ... provided we can get enough copper. Always was afraid that something like a raw material shortage would screw things up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 01/11/2009

A somewhat offensive phrase by Bill Clinton's first presidential campaign was, "It's the economy, stupid"; but it was effective in helping to get Clinton elected.
When it comes to Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV), it is not the battery, "It's the copper, stupid."
The battery is not the main challenge. There is a great variety of batteries available to turn the motors of electric vehicles, including lead-acid, Nickel-Metal Hydrid, iron and lithium. There has even been some talk about using capacitors for storage. Some of these batteries may not provide the greatest desired range, but they do work.
"It's the copper, stupid." Copper is the single greatest limiting factor in the advancement of BEVs. When it comes to a shortage of essential components for any major industry, there must be alternative sources available so that the product can continue to be manufactured. Today, copper is the only viable conductor that is acceptable for use in the windings of electric motors. Aluminum could be used, but the motors would have to be twice as large, and they would not last as long. There has been some research on using conductive carbon materials, but actual products are years, if not decades, away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 01/10/2009

"It's the copper, stupid."
I am not saying that anyone is stupid. The idea is to catch someone's attention. The world copper shortage is a challenge that must be addressed if we are to have millions of BEVs on the road. It can't be done with the amount of copper that is available in the world. Period.
"It's the copper, stupid."
The smart manufacturing country is China. In 2006, the Chinese basically cornered the copper market around the globe, and have contracts in place with copper mining and recycling companies to supply most of the world's copper only to China over the next decade. So, don't count on manufacturing electric motors in the U.S.A.
"It's the copper, stupid."
However, we do have enough iron, aluminum and carbon to convert each of the 800 million existing automobiles to run on hydrogen or natural gas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 01/10/2009
- DaveC19 I'm a Fan of DaveC19 12 fans permalink

Hydrogen? No way it is stupid. You realize that hydrogen is one of the most impractical energy carriers there is. If you lived on Jupiter OK but not on earth. Besides the huge amount of energy to get hydrogen, it is very hard to contain. It must be kept at super high pressures or you won't get any useable range, even then the range is terrible. The tanks strong enough to contain a useable amount of hydrogen are so heavy that you use up alot of the energy carrying tanks around. Due to the super high pressures leaks are almost impossible to avoid. Your car would be emptying itself while it sits, that is when it is new. When it gets a few years old it will leak like a seive.

The reason people still tout fuel cells is simple. It is hard to get. It has to come from a high tech facility. Basically hydrogen plants can manipulate the fues costs at will. We will go from "big oil" to "big hydrogen". The reason electric scares the "big" guys is that you can get it from many sources (even your own with solar panels), they lose control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 01/12/2009
- karela I'm a Fan of karela 81 fans permalink

T. Boone Pickens plan calls for using natural gas for trucking. I am not aware that he has expanded that plan to personal vehicles. But he does show that just going with natural gas on trucking would make a definite difference in American fuel consumption. That seems like a reasonable part of the plan. It would be far less difficult to supply truck stops with natural gas than to attempt the same at every gas station in America. He doesn't claim that the step would be all of the plan, but only part. Why not use what we have in abundant natural gas for trucking?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 01/10/2009
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Utah has a CNG powered automobile program that is up and running. CNG is a clean burning fuel. CNG sells at a 40% discount to gasoline. Fueling stations have been built statewide. It is a huge success.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 01/10/2009
- jnah I'm a Fan of jnah 6 fans permalink

and it is a great short term solution but will eventually lead to the same problems. i applaude the efforts of utah and hope the rest of the country follows suite but we must look further into the future and begin developing technology and infrastructure today

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 01/12/2009
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Gotta hand it to the scam artist! Next he'll be taxing sunlight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 01/10/2009
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

"Mandate CAFE standards that increase every single year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax.
3. Invest in public transportation."

Those would reduce gas. But then you go and blow it along with any hope of credibility with teh folloiwng misnomer:

"4. Offer tax credits and other incentives for consumers who purchase zero (and low) emissions vehicles."

Ummm. I thought we were talking about reducing dependence on foreign oil, not on emissions.

Fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 01/09/2009
- Decipherer I'm a Fan of Decipherer 91 fans permalink

Hey slick, believe it or not, both goals can be achieved in tandem!

If you stop and think about it for a nanosecond, it is quite possible the walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 01/10/2009
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

True, but that doesn't mean waliking and chewing gum are co-requisites, now does it?

If the goal is to chew gum, you don't have to walk. And, believe it or not, most people can also walk without chewing gum.

i.e., just because twio things can be done simultaneously doesn't make them related ot the same.

Now does it, "slick"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 01/11/2009
- research I'm a Fan of research 235 fans permalink

Natural Gas probably is the only intermediate non-oil fuel for long distance trucking.

You should read Picken's plan, he explicitly states it's for trucking. plugs in are for passenger travel.

We SHOULD burn up all the easy methane before transitioning to solar and wind generated Hydrogen.,

Look up Methane Extinctions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 01/09/2009
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OK, did . . . It looks like those methane eruptions came from places we're not drilling, so I'm not sure how we're going to prevent them. Does sound bad, though:

"A Northwestern University chemical engineer believes the culprit may be an enormous explosion of methane (natural gas) erupting from the ocean depths."

"huge combustible clouds produced by methane gas trapped in stagnant bodies of water and suddenly released could have killed off the majority of marine life and land animals and plants at the end of the Permian era"

I tend to think that biodiesel is a much better near-term fuel for trucking, though. Almost no conversions, no new tanks, existing delivery system.

Great info on your bio page. I'm bookmarking that as a reference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 01/09/2009
- research I'm a Fan of research 235 fans permalink

Thanks.

We probably should use biodeiesl to make use of agricultural waste, but is can be a magor par of our energy needs without competing with food.

"If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (assuming an optimistic 98 GPa of biodiesel)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Biodiesel_feedstocks

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 01/10/2009
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It's simple, think of him as a pitchman selling Doc T-Bone's All-Natural Windmill Gas. He wants US to pay for upgrades of energy sectors in which HE'S INVESTED. He completely discounts biofuels. He intends to buy his wind generators OVERSEAS, not build them here. He proposes converting vehicles to use what he's selling (several thousand bucks, by the way; I'd go electric if we were doing that) rather than multiple fuels or a hybrid retrofit. It's like the time our gas company offered a rebate for 90% efficient gas furnaces, but ONLY if you replaced oil or electric. They didn't want higher efficiency, they wanted new customers. Yep, much like the other snake-oil guys, it sounds great until you want to look in the back of the wagon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 01/09/2009
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What do you have against green profit?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 01/09/2009
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Scuse me?

I'm hoping there's LOTS of money to be made on a big old green conversion. I hope the corporations that have been holding it back realize that someday. But Boone's using our resentment of our dependence on foreign oil (of which I for one have 35 years' worth) to get us to pay for infrastructure that will jumpstart HIS business venture.

I forgot to mention this when I said he dismisses biofuels: One part of his plan is to convert not just cars, but mainly diesel trucks to natural gas. The one major form of transportation that would be easiest to convert to renewable fuel, and he instead wants to change to a different fossil fuel, one he sells.

Actually, of course parts of his plan make sense. Using wind & solar to replace fossil fuel power plants, upgrading the electric grid, and doing something about oil imports are all good. I just have problems with the self-serving way he's going about it, and the fact that he's showing us windmills when he's really trying to sell more fossil fuel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 PM on 01/09/2009
- PATina I'm a Fan of PATina 211 fans permalink
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Question... why is it a bad idea to have natural gas vehicles??? I know we have some buses here in my area that run on natural gas.

As for the Pickens plan... overall I think it's a good plan... I just think he's trying to get the government to invest our dollars into his business so he can turn around and sell it back to us.... which means we pay twice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 01/09/2009
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Not kidding . . .Once again, I feel like I'm in the wrong racket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 01/09/2009
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No one wants to buy your snake-oil?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 01/09/2009
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