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Josh Sugarmann

Josh Sugarmann

Posted: March 24, 2010 11:48 AM

Glenn Beck's Fellow "Responsible" Handgun Carriers Have Killed Over 150 Since May 2007

What's Your Reaction:

According to self-proclaimed concealed handgun permit holder Glenn Beck:

"I carry a gun. I mean, I know people that carry guns all the time. Concealed weapons permit holders are responsible, for the love of Pete. I don't know any of them that have ever been in a shootout."

Well, Glenn, meet two of your fellow concealed handgun permit holders--Matthew Culbertson and Roger Troy--in this new YouTube video from the Violence Policy Center.

Culbertson and Troy are just two of 11 new concealed carry killers identified by the Violence Policy Center in the March update to its Concealed Carry Killers web site. As fully detailed on the site, concealed handgun permit holders have killed at least nine law enforcement officers in addition to 142 private citizens (including 15 shooters who killed themselves after an attack) since May 2007. And there are plenty of "shootouts."

It's not that Glenn Beck doesn't know about the murders, mass shootings, and police killings committed by his fellow "responsible" concealed handgun permit holders. It's that he doesn't want to acknowledge the lethal crimes they're committing. So what else is new?

 

Follow Josh Sugarmann on Twitter: www.twitter.com/VPCinfo

According to self-proclaimed concealed handgun permit holder Glenn Beck: "I carry a gun. I mean, I know people that carry guns all the time. Concealed weapons permit holders are responsible, for ...
According to self-proclaimed concealed handgun permit holder Glenn Beck: "I carry a gun. I mean, I know people that carry guns all the time. Concealed weapons permit holders are responsible, for ...
 
 
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05:57 PM on 03/25/2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032501722.html?hpid=topnews

Great article about NRA member Mike Vanderboegh. Seems he's advocating civil war.

Have to laugh at this part:

"Vanderboegh said he once worked as a warehouse manager but now lives on government disability checks. He said he receives $1,300 a month because of his congestive heart failure, diabetes and hypertension. He has private health insurance through his wife, who works for a company that sells forklift products."

Yup, another NRA tough guy calling for war--so long as it doesn't stop those Govt. checks from rolling in.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
08:06 PM on 03/25/2010
Once again Lynn gets caught fabricating things.

If you did even a little bit of research you would know that that Mike Vanderboegh hates the NRA.
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ScottM1A
09:00 PM on 03/25/2010
You might want to double check that NRA membership card you think is Vanderboegh's, he is waaaay out there on the fringe of gun people. The NRA and he aren't even in the same zip code, he may be a member of the JPFO though if that helps they see things much the same way.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
09:13 PM on 03/25/2010
Lynn thinks anyone who is pro-firearm/pro-2nd Amendment has to be a member of the NRA, when the truth is that the only a small percentage of such people are members of the NRA.
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DaveNYC
12:44 PM on 03/25/2010
Of course, the point that Mr. Sugarmann is trying to make is not substantive -- it is associational:

People with concealed handgun licenses have killed 151 people, thus (by association), people with concealed handgun licenses are homicidal.

Does the ad hominem argument actually stand up? We live in a country of 280 million people, and as a general statement, about 1-2% of the population has concealed handgun licenses. In 2008 (the last year for which the FBI has released the UCR) there were 14,180 murders. If we assume that licensees kill at the same rate as the general population, then concealed handgun licensees should have committed 142 (1%) - 284 (2%) of those homicides, LAST YEAR ALONE. Mr. Sugarmann's figure of 151 for all of history is...not very persuasive.
12:40 PM on 03/25/2010
What a complete waste of space on hpo. 150 shootings by CCW holders and thousands by people that don't have em. Great comparison, do you really think you are an intelligent writer when writing about something like this?
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DaveNYC
12:32 PM on 03/25/2010
Mr. Beck and Mr. Sugarmann have more in common than either would like to admit -- both advocate setting public policy on the basis of purely anecdotal evidence. Mr. Beck says that concealed handgun licenses are good because he "doesn't know any" licensees who have been in shootouts, and Mr. Sugarmann says that licenses are bad because he can name 151 licensees.

Both points are meaningless. The real question is: what is the net effect of having a concealed handgun license law? First, how many of those 151 licensees would have committed a homicide regardless of the existence of a concealed handgun law? Did the concealed handgun law in fact facilitate crimes, and how many? Second, how many licensees prevented criminal acts that would have otherwise been committed, because they were armed?
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
07:06 PM on 03/24/2010
Poor Josh. It's sad what a cut in funding will reduce an already irrelevant organization to.

Notice how Josh doesn't mention the fact that 48 states have some form of concealed carry laws; and within those states there are an estimated 9 million CCW holders. He neglects to mention the violent crime rate which is is at an all-time low (10% was the last figure?). He breezes past the black eyes which are Chicago and D.C., both of which have handgun bans (DC overturned by Heller, and Chicago soon-to-be overturned by McDonald) yet DC consistently led the nation in homicides, while Chicago has about 500 annual murders and accounts for 60% of all homicides in IL. Let's not forget the recent shooting galleries, aka, Gun Free Zones (V-Tech, NIU, Trolley Sq Mall, Lancaster PA, etc...)

While any homicide is tragic, he's certainly reaching out to his target audience by failing to show these statistics in per capita terms, which would show CCW holders committing significantly less than 1% of all annual homicides in the US. (compare that to repeat felons).

Yes folks, while Josh is faced with the realities of Joyce's funding cuts to the VPC, it's full steam ahead with the emotional choo-choo train.

All aboard........
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TokyoStormWarning
If you're not outraged you're not paying attention
10:17 PM on 03/24/2010
"Josh doesn't mention the fact that 48 states have some form of concealed carry laws; and within those states there are an estimated 9 million CCW holders. He neglects to mention the violent crime rate which is is at an all-time low (10% was the last figure?)"

There is no direct, or even indirect, connection between the loosening of gun control regulations and the drop in crime rates.
10:28 PM on 03/24/2010
there is a definite correlation between the gun bans passing in DC and CHicago and crime in those cities going up and shall issue CCW passing in 40 states and crime going down
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ScottM1A
08:34 AM on 03/25/2010
There is also no correlation to crime rising with more legal guns and gun owners yet Josh makes that implication every chance he gets. He rails against semi automatic rifles that look like military firearms yet rifles and handguns make up less than 2% of FBI crimes where a gun is used and military pattern semi auto rifles are a fraction of that number. He implies that cops will be killed by large calibers hunting handguns. His latest freakout is carry permit holders look at his number 130 people killed in 3 years by people with CCW permits (I won't even mention that about half of those deaths occurred on private property where a permit wasn't needed such as the killers home or that a large number of them were not using handguns to commit their crime). that's 43 people a year out of about 12,000 firearm homicides a year. Nation wide out of a population almost 3 times the size of Chicago where there are close to 500 gun deaths a year. Why are we worrying about permit holders again?
If Josh wanted to make a difference he would do better being a mentor to a child in his city.
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owlafaye
Love, laugh, be happy and free, God is dead
11:51 PM on 03/24/2010
molonlabe....it is actually a number far far afar from 1% A homicide is not insignificant but those committed by CCW holders are a percentage so small as to be insignificant statistically.
05:21 PM on 03/24/2010
The stupidest bumper sticker I ever saw:

"God, Guns, and Guts make America strong". Putting God and guns in the same sentence?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
05:53 PM on 03/24/2010
While you may find it distasteful, it is not necessarily stupid.
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Halsey
"There is a price to pay for speaking the truth. T
06:29 PM on 03/24/2010
How about putting on Matthew 26:52

"Put back your sword. All who live by the sword will die by the sword."



Peace is a choice.
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TokyoStormWarning
If you're not outraged you're not paying attention
10:15 PM on 03/24/2010
Well, yes it is necessarily stupid to put God and guns in the same sentence in the way that this bumpersticker has.
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DaveNYC
04:38 PM on 03/25/2010
The stupidest one I ever saw said:

"Granola made America strong."
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B Kleitz
ghost hunter grammy DeadHead
05:10 PM on 03/24/2010
I'm pretty sure poverty and it's effects killed a whole lot more people since '07 than legally owned guns.
04:57 PM on 03/24/2010
How peculiar that Josh Sugarman didn't mention that crime has gone down in the states that issue shall-issue CWW permits.

Gungrabbers shy away from a full revelation of statistics because when the whole truth is out, they lose. Guns owned and carried legally thwart far more crime than they cause.
05:22 PM on 03/24/2010
Show me statistics on that last statement.
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cloudjungle
05:49 PM on 03/24/2010
He can't.
06:57 PM on 03/24/2010
google is your friend
04:20 PM on 03/24/2010
Just think how many we could kill if we ALL carried handguns! Wow! How cool would that be??
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Carolyn LeBeauf
04:15 PM on 03/24/2010
Gleen Beck knows exactly who he is preaching to. These are the people I am sure he has spoken to in peson or over the phone. Beck knows exactly what instructions to give and when . Gleen Beck , Bill O'Reilly the clown are accessory to murder and mayhem.
04:49 PM on 03/24/2010
Sorry to inform you Carolyn--crime has gone down in EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 40 states that went to shall issue CCW
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cloudjungle
05:53 PM on 03/24/2010
That means nothing unless it has been correlated to the fact that they issue CCW.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
04:03 PM on 03/24/2010
Again Josh trots out this misleading and in some cases flat out incorrect info? This is what the third or the fourth time?

Josh says he/VPC is keeping a running tally of all the people with concealed carry permits who are involved in homicides.

Some of the many problems with his data:

1) He relies on news media accounts. Unfortunately for him, the news media is quite frequently wrong about such things. In one case they confused a permit to purchase (required in that particular jurisdiction) with a permit to carry concealed. In others, they have simply as.sumed that a person had a concealed carry permit.

2) In several of the cases the people used to have permits, but did not have one at the time of the incident in question. Such is the case of Maj Hasan at Ft Hood.

3) In roughly 80% of the cases, the person was NOT exercising their concealed carry permit during the shooting. The shootings either took place in residences (no permit required) or involved long guns (not concealed carry firearms) or the firearm was not concealed.

Regardless, the main point is that it is less likely for a concealed carry permit holder to misuse their concealed carry firearm when carrying concealed than it is for the general public to illegally carry concealed and misuse their firearm. And the statistics pretty well bear this out.
04:17 PM on 03/24/2010
Josh has posted 6 times on this topic since October--he must be getting desperate
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ScottM1A
08:53 AM on 03/25/2010
Is it grant time? Joyce keeps cutting his funding so maybe he's desperate to keep his and Kirsten from having to get real jobs that require actual work. Of course the other possibility is Palmer v D.C. scares him as that is a case about the "bear" part of the 2nd.
04:58 PM on 03/24/2010
Great post. Sure to be ignored by the ideologues of gun control.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
05:11 PM on 03/24/2010
If I relied on the news media accounts to tally statistics, I would be able to show that there is a serious problem with people using semi-automatic machine guns loaded with armor piercing hollow point bullets. I run into both claims quite frequently in news articles.

In reality there is no such thing as a semi-auto machine gun and there is no such thing as a armor piercing hollow point.

But then again, the news media thinks that .9 mm, 45 mm, .45 mm, 12 caliber, and .12 gauge are all valid bore measurements (I see these frequently as well).
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ramblin jack
03:53 PM on 03/24/2010
150 is a blip on the radar of things that kill people yet many get upset over guns yet cars kill far more, medical mistakes, even plain freak accidents kill more people.
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Halsey
"There is a price to pay for speaking the truth. T
06:35 PM on 03/24/2010
gosh....a dead person, shot by a white gun nut...is now relagated to "blip"....good call..glad you cleared up that pesky real person problem I was having...
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03:51 PM on 03/24/2010
To make a meaningful comparison you would have to compare the rate of crime of permit holders to the general population. As usual the gun banners provide meaningless statistics. For example in the state of ohio given the number of permit holders and the crime rate in ohio you would have expected the total for ohio to be higher than what is cited at the vpc. I do not have the statistics for other states but strongly suspect a similar result would be the case.
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cstmrsrvc
03:26 PM on 03/24/2010
150 since 2007 out of the millions of shootings in the past 3 years ?....these are comparable to the odds of getting hit by a Joe Biden Motorcade
04:22 PM on 03/24/2010
I'm sure those 150 people we're that important anyway. I mean we can always make more people, right?
04:50 PM on 03/24/2010
Bloviator--what other rights protected by the BOR do you support violating
02:33 PM on 03/24/2010
I am surprised the number is that low....................... 150 since 2007?

The little I know of Glenn Beck would have me believe that he's probably not qualified to be a concealed weapons permit holder, I doubt that he's alone in that regards, but 150 since 2007?

Let's put that in perspective. It's estimated that 98,000 die in the U.S. each year from medical mistakes.
How many doctors lose their licenses? If you want to be outraged at needless deaths, there are more productive places to look.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/deadbymistake/6555095.html