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Q&A with Joe Berlinger, Director of West Memphis Three Documentary (VIDEO)

Posted: 01/17/12 12:25 PM ET

In 1993 acclaimed director Joe Berlinger arrived in West Memphis, Arkansas, a community still in shock after three eight-year-old boys disappeared, then were found dead in a nearby ravine. Facing a public that was both enraged and afraid, police scrambled to make an arrest. Soon three local teens—Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley—found themselves in court, accused of the murders.

With no physical evidence linking the teens to the crime, prosecutors pointed to their black clothing and interest in heavy metal music, indications, they said, that the teens had formed a devil-worshipping cult and, inspired by the full moon, murdered the boys as a sacrifice to evil spirits.

Berlinger and co-director Bruce Sinofsky captured the teens' trials and subsequent convictions on film. In 1996 they released Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills, followed in 2000 by Paradise Lost: Revelations, sparking a wave of outrage and legal challenges that pushed the court to make a stunning about-face. In August 2011, using an Alford plea—in which the young men affirmed their innocence but pled guilty—the state of Arkansas let the West Memphis Three walk free, after 17 years behind bars.

Berlinger's final film in the series, Paradise Lost: Purgatory, premieres this month on HBO, tracing the stunning developments that led to the release of the West Memphis Three. Purgatory has been shortlisted for this year's Oscar for Best Documentary. The film is more than the best movie of the year: it is also the most important, a legal thriller with enthralling characters and astonishing twists that explores a real-life tragedy and provides an unblinking look at a justice system that can both wreck lives and save them.

On a personal level, Purgatory marks Berlinger's transformation from neutral journalist to impassioned advocate. On screen his rapport with Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley shines through. On his website, he urges visitors to sign a petition asking the governor of Arkansas to pardon the three men. And in conversation, asked a single question—how he first heard about the case—Berlinger spoke with passion for half an hour about the West Memphis Three and what their fight for freedom has meant to him.





Berlinger: One of the great ironies of this three-film, two-decade mission is that we thought we were making a film about bad children, the inside story of why kids kill. Sheila Nevins, [president of HBO Documentary Films], sent us a press clipping from the New York Times about three devil-worshipping teens who had sacrificed children. The local press was reporting the story the same way. The Commercial Appeal, the predominant newspaper in West Memphis, ran a front-page story that made Damien, Jason and Jessie look obviously guilty. High school dropouts. Black clothing. Talk of the devil. A confession to murder. We all agreed: this would make a great film, a real-life River's Edge. This was right after the murder of Jamie Bulger in England, a two-year-old boy lured onto the railroad tracks and beaten to death by two 10-year-old boys. In this country, there was a real witchcraft panic going on, news coverage of how devil-worshipping cults were preying on children, although the FBI now says that not a single child was ever killed in the name of the devil.

We thought, let's take a look at this phenomenon. Let's go to Arkansas.





We got to West Memphis very early, long before the trial. So we embedded ourselves in the community for seven or eight months. The first months we spent with the victims' families, which made us even more convinced that the kids were guilty. Then we negotiated access to meet them in prison. And everything we'd heard about them ... it just didn't feel right. All these red flags were popping up for me. Jason Baldwin came across as a very nice, very normal kid. The prosecution's theory was that he wielded this massive survival knife. But his arms were so scrawny, and he was so shy. I just couldn't picture it.

Then we learn: there was no blood found at the crime scene. You're telling me that three unprofessional killers are going to take three kids—kids writhing around, trying to escape—kill them in a ravine with a big knife, and there's not going to be any blood? It just wasn't plausible.

One and one was not adding up to two. When we realized the prosecution was off, that the kids were innocent, our mindset changed. Now we thought we were doing a story about kids wrongfully charged with murder and how the court would acquit them and set things right. ... Looking back now, I think we were all incredibly naive to think that somehow it would all work itself out.

Meanwhile the storm of anger and misinformation that was brewing in that community, it was jaw-dropping to behold. Church leaders and the local press fanning the flames of this devil-worshipping story. The Commercial Appeal printed Jessie's confession. Not the complete confession—with all the errors in it, with the police pushing him to change the details four or five times until they fit the facts—only the final version, after it was all cleaned up. As if what they printed just spilled out of his mouth.

You know, some have criticized us for including the gruesome crime scene footage that's at the beginning of the film. We did that not to exploit, not to shock, but to show how a community could be scared to death, to show why they wanted to believe so badly that the killers had been caught, that the threat was over. The police had stepped forward to address the question of how sure they were that they had caught the real killers, saying on a scale from 1 to 10, this was an 11. In church, the locals pastors were speaking out against the three teens. This is a highly religious part of the world, a community where pastors are authority figures—where people believe that angels and demons walk among us—and the community had no reason to doubt them.

Damien's demeanor didn't make it easier. He was into Wicca and horror movies, an alienated youth who wore all black. He listened to heavy metal music. He became an easy target. The complete lack of physical evidence almost became an afterthought.





We were fortunate in the film to use Metallica's music—this was the first time they allowed anyone to use their songs—and we came to them with that thought: that heavy metal music is on trial here just as much as these kids are. Someone's musical interests should not be part of a trial. Then they threw in that bogus witchcraft expert. And now, with no hard evidence linking these guys to the crime, suddenly they had a case. This was before we learned about the jury tampering. And that the "knife wounds" weren't knife wounds at all but the result of post-mortem animal predation.

It was all completely bogus. And it really awakened something in me. An advocacy instinct. That didn't mean we were going to whitewash the case or discard our journalistic role. It was more like, a sense of commitment. We were going to stay with this, make films about them until they were released from prison. I had no idea it was going to take two decades.

And I'll tell you, that angers me. I want to know: why does it take three well-funded HBO documentaries, millions of dollars from celebrities, and the advocacy of thousands of people from all over the world to get justice for three people? It's poor man's justice. The Three were just another set of impoverished defendants, and it took the weight of celebrities and thousands of activists to level the playing field.





You know, every time Paradise Lost airs, I get hundreds of letters from convicted criminals saying, "Hey, I'm innocent too." I ask myself: what separates Damien, Jason and Jessie from those men? And the answer, I think, is a series of flukes. First, that we happened to be there in Arkansas to make a movie. There was also Arkansas' new DNA statute, which passed in 2001, allowing convicts to appeal their cases based on DNA evidence, to prove actual innocence.

Still, that DNA testing is very expensive, plus the cost of a lawyer who's willing to take on your case. The Innocence Project handles a lot of that, but they don't take on every case. Because of the publicity from our film, the Three had enough support and financing to move forward.





There was the editing too. We came back from Arkansas with our haul of footage. This was the old days, back when you had to physically cut the film. The editing took longer, so the film was released in 1996, just as the Internet was taking shape. Internet 1.0. Like-minded people could find each other; WM3.org got started; people who wanted to help could. If the editing had been faster and the film had been released in 1994, I don't think it would have resonated with the public in that way, not in a way that would have led to action.





Coming into Arkansas in 1993, I was ambivalent about the death penalty. I would have said, if a member of my family was a victim of a violent crime, the penalty should be death. After witnessing these trials—and the proceedings that followed—my feelings are very different. I saw firsthand how easy it is to put someone to death in our justice system. The police and prosecution, under public pressure to solve crimes, they act in their own interests, not in the interest of justice. Damien said to me that without the films, without the public support, he'd be dead. And it's true.

Right now there are a lot of people in prison who are innocent.







Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory airs on HBO throughout January.



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12:41 AM on 01/25/2012
Letter to AMPAS from victims' parents
We are writing to the Academy now to express our sadness, disappointment, and outrage over the decision to nominate the latest film, Purgatory, for an Academy Award in the documentary film category. http://wm3truth.com/2012/01/letter-to-ampas-from-victims-parents/

Oscar nomination for Paradise Lost 3
We are horrified to learn that a documentary that glorifies Michael’s killers, Paradise Lost III: Purgatory, is among 15 documentaries being considered for an Academy Award. Because of public pressure that exploded due to gross misrepresentations of fact in two previous documentaries, Michael’s killers were unjustly able to enter into a plea agreement, were released from prison, and now pose additional threats to society. http://wm3truth.com/2012/01/oscar-nomination-for-paradise-lost-3/
11:54 AM on 01/20/2012
Terry Hobbs is certainly suspicious. He has a history of violence, he lied about his alibi the night of the murders and he lied about seeing the boys that evening, and his DNA was found at the scene of the crime (in the knot of Michael Moore's shoelace that bound his hand and foot - NOT in the ligature of his own step-son, which would indicate possible transference).

All that said, there is no clear evidence that Terry Hobbs is guilty. There was a time many believed Mark Byers was guilty because he also certainly acted suspicious. The truth it we don't know, we will probably never know, which is heartbreaking because these three children's murderer will never know justice.
04:11 PM on 01/20/2012
Well, there may be new evidence yet on Mr. Hobbs. Today, the WM3 Defense Team has released new evidence (sworn statements and polygraph tests backing up those statements) from witnesses who said they were told by Terry Hobbs nephew that Terry Hobbs was the murderer.

http://www.katv.com/story/16564511/west-memphis-three-defense-team-says
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
04:53 PM on 01/20/2012
Meh, not really good evidence though. Lots of people gave sworn statements and passed polygraphs accusing the WM3. And now they've retracked those statements. If it was Hobbs's own nephew making the statements, they'd have more weight. I hope that Peter Jackson's forensic team went through that WMPD evidence room with a fine tooth comb. And if not, someone should. If anything is to be found regarding this case now, my guess is it will be in there.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Deborah Beck
Say What?
09:05 AM on 01/21/2012
Without a member of the Hobbs family coming forward with more information, the affidavits by the friends of his nephews, I believe, would be considered no more than hearsay. Of course, if members of the Hobbs family have been protecting Hobbs all along then I think they have legal issues as accessories after the fact. I believe that the affidavits of the then Hobbs neighbors who place Hobbs with the kids will have more weight. However, it stills begs the question of their silence for so many years. Hobbs did a very bad job of presentation during his deposition by Natalie Maines' lawyers when he tried to sue her for defamation of character (eventually the court dismissed his case). I believe the big fight now will be in the attempt to get the case reopened.
10:45 AM on 01/20/2012
This is just another example of the pay as you get off American Justice System. If you have enough money for a good attorney ,you get off. If you have a public defender you go to jail.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Deborah Beck
Say What?
05:41 AM on 01/20/2012
The first "Paradise Lost" film hit me on such a visceral level. To watch a film where a kid was sentenced to death for being the wrong minded kid in a wrong minded place just hit heavy. That could have been my kids and their friends, only we lived in San Francisco, and they were just considered to be kids trying to establish their own identity. To call their conviction a travesty of justice is a travesty in and of itself. Were any of the families really investigated? Both the Hobbs and Byers parents/step parents had histories of child and spousal abuse and addictions how far were they investigated? Byers was pretty much run out of one of the communities where he resided. What a weird mix when you consider the personal histories of these families with all of that religion!

While the focus is now on Hobbs and Byers what about their wives? I understand that Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh are still involved with the intent to completely exonerate The West Memphis Three and I do hope that they are successful. I was so pleased when the WM3 were released from jail and will be happier when they are truly "FREE" men. I only hope when that day arrives the plea bargain can be stricken and they can sue the State of Arkansas back in the dark ages. I'll be even more pleased when there is true justice for those three little boys.
cdianek
An antibiotic-resistant micro-bio
01:09 AM on 01/21/2012
I agree with everything you said.

Though he was looked at sideways at one point, Byers was either never a serious suspect or dismissed as one. His wife, Christopher Byers' mother, died some years after her son was murdered.

Terry Hobbs and his wife are now divorced. The only statement I have heard her make about Hobbs' DNA and changing story is that she doesn't like to think that he might be involved.

Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh's company, I believe, funded the DNA testing that eventually showed no match between the DNA at the scene matched any of the WM3.

I haven't seen this Paradise Lost docu yet, though it's waiting for me on my DVR. I look forward to seeing Jackson's as well.
11:46 AM on 01/19/2012
"Right now there are a lot of people in prison who are innocent"

this statement can't be made. it's as erroneous as a faceless trial.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimchap
11:48 PM on 01/19/2012
looks like someone made it. Of course it's entirely true. That doesn't discount guilty parties. It's simply a mathematical certainty that we, with the highest percentage of it's population of any civilized nation, imprisoned, there are bound to be 1000s of innocent Americans imprisoned.
Why, over 50% of Michigan's death row inmates were exonerated by DNA testing (13 our of 25)
So 13 people were slated the die despite their proven innocence. Again, 12 appear to be guilty and this is an exaggerated and inflammatory but TRUE example.
09:22 AM on 01/20/2012
it should be fact-less (autocorrect!). anyways 80-90% of those in jail are there on drug related charges. so to say that "a lot of people" are innocent is erroneous. whether drug charges should be enforced is another debate. "a lot of people" is a statement of feeling and not fact. there needs to be a number not some knee jerk reaction to one case that somehow now represents the ENTIRE american judicial system. stop feeling and start thinking, many of the people in jail are guilty as charged.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
02:28 PM on 01/20/2012
"Fact-less" isn't a word, which is why it autocorrected.

"80-90% of those in jail are there on drug related charges" - please cite where you got this statistic.

The Innocence Project has help 280 people who were wrongly convicted, exonerated. This is a fact.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
No death panels
There's no man with a trumpet. Only me.
03:44 PM on 01/18/2012
Berlinger: One of the great ironies of this three-film, two-decade mission is that we thought we were making a film about bad children, the inside story of why kids kill.

And the first film started out just that way. It wasn't until they introduced Damien's very pretty girlfriend that I thought, "Wait a minute..."
10:25 AM on 01/18/2012
My heart goes out to the families of those three little boys, and to the three young men that lost 17 years of there life. I just saw the movie the other day for the first time. I was in college when this happend. I remember hearing about this years ago, but I never looked into it. I am angery that the state of Arkansas is more worried about being sued then to find the real killer of those sweet little boys. It is so sad that it all comes down to money and not justist. The killer is still out there and he needs to pay.
I wil keep praying till he is found.
03:08 PM on 01/18/2012
Can the state legally still investigate this case, though? The fact that these three were coerced into pleading guilty means that the case is tried and closed, no?

So not only did the state protect themselves by pursuing this plea bargain, they also consequently assured that the actual perpetrator(s) will never be found. That makes me very upset.

I can understand why the three took the deal - I might have in under those circumstances also, but my heart goes out to the families of those children.
12:43 AM on 01/18/2012
Blood was found at the scene of the crime with Luminol testing.
http://blinkoncrime.com/category/west-memphis-three/paradise-lost-hbo/

The cult expert that testified against the three had several degrees and was a long term respected police officer. He had spent years investigating and publishing information about cults.

Two of the parents of the murdered children, Diana Moore and Todd Moore, still believe the three are guilty.

Todd Moore: The family of Michael Moore wishes to express gratitude to the countless people that have supported us through out these past 18 years, since our son was brutally murdered by those men known as the West Memphis three. We have supported these convictions from the beginning. We are pleased that those convictions were upheld and that those men confirmed that with their plea of guilty yesterday before the judge and the world.

Diana Moore: Since the convictions, the media has made it a point to make this case all about the convicted. I would like to take this opportunity to remind people that three innocent 8 year old children were brutally murdered, and these three men were convicted on the evidence presented to 24 , (in total), juror members that voted unanimously to convict.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
11:58 AM on 01/18/2012
Um...your link doesn't go to this "blood evidence" information.

The "cult expert" has a mail order PhD. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone with a real education will be laughing at this right now. He was asked during his trial testimony if he attended any actual classes to obtain this "PhD" and he admitted that he hadn't attended a single class and that he purchased this "certificate" through the mail.

Yes, Todd and Dana Moore still believe the WM3 are guilty. Doesn't mean they are though. And it should be noted that John Mark Byers and Pam Hobbs, (parents of the other two boys), DON'T think the WM3 are guilty.
07:05 PM on 01/20/2012
I think the mothers of the other two victoms just wants to believe that those three young men did this crime for closure. I can not even begin to understand how they must feel. This happend long before DNA was ever a factor in the courts. Also maybe these kids where trouble makers in the area. Small towns where everyone knows each other and there kids can easley turn into a lynch mob. Sex drugs and rock and roll doesn't make someone do something like this. The DA said that was what must of drove these kids. That is crazy...Th­e doctor and his mail order PhD is a joke. Im a Nurse and I had to go to school for 4 years to do what I do. I would never in a million years take the stand in a murder trial and make the statements he made If I took a mail order cours.
11:50 PM on 01/18/2012
The link does go to the blood information, showing that blood was found at the scene of the crime. Scroll down to "Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology " http://blinkoncrime.com/category/west-memphis-three/paradise-lost-hbo/

The cult expert got his advanced degree through long distance learning, which is very common now. It took him several years to get this degree and he did a dissertation and thesis. He had two other college degrees.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
12:06 AM on 01/19/2012
An "advanced" degree huh? What does that mean? You don't go to a university and obtain an "advanced" degree. You get a BA, an MA or a PhD. So what accredited University did he obtain this "degree" from?

FYI - Accredited means "officially recognized". i.e. Columbia, NYU, Brown, Yale etc. And just so you know (because I'm sure you don't), none of these universities offer a degree in satanic cultism. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what are his other two college degrees in and where did he obtain them?
12:42 AM on 01/18/2012
This article repeats many of the myths around the West Memphis Three case. Misskelley was NOT interrogated for 12 hours. He was interrogated off and on during four hours before the first confession and 2 1/2 more hours before the second confession. The third time he confessed in front of his own lawyer later. He confessed three times in all.

Baldwin had a criminal record.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_baldwin.html
http://callahan.8k.com/images/jasonb/baldwin_prior_arrest.JPG
http://callahan.8k.com/images/j_crosby/statement_11-18-93.jpg

"Damien's demeanor didn't make it easier." This is an understatement. At trial, his psychiatric and other records were introduced by his own defense.

Echols’ psychiatric records - http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html
about his history of violence and drinking blood

Echols is reported to have either told or bragged about the crime to four people before he was arrested. Echols had a history of psychiatric treatment. His reported actions included brutally killing a dog, starting fires at his school, threatening to kill his teachers and parents and stating he liked to drink blood. He talked about getting his girlfriend pregnant, then using the baby as a human sacrifice. He claimed to be possessed by a spirit and to converse with demons. (from exhibit 500 court documents)

Statement about Damien Echols stomping and killing a dog
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/joehb.html
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
12:09 PM on 01/18/2012
Jessie was in police custody without a parent or a lawyer present for 12 hours. Only the last 45 mins of this 12 hours was put on tape. What Margaret 28 has posted cannot be corroborated.

Jason Baldwin has no criminal record.

Damien Echols had terrible defence lawyers. However, his medical records are not evidence of him committing this crime.

The next paragraph is gossip and not evidence. Anyone with common sense will understand this though.

The statement about the dog is something people who believe the WM3 cling to like it's a smoking gun. However it is merely more gossip. There is not one piece of evidence that this incident occured. No police report, nothing. Just a story someone made up for a bit of attention.
11:43 PM on 01/18/2012
The 12 hour interrogation of Misskelley is a myth.

Jessie Lloyd MISSKELLEY, Jr. v. STATE of Arkansas CR 94-848 S.W.2d
The two arrived at the station at approximately 10:00 a.m....questioned the appellant for about an hour when they became concerned that he wasn't telling the truth. ...he denied participation in the cult activity, a statement which was at odds with what other witnesses had said. At this point, the detectives decided to advise the appellant of his rights. ....read him a form entitled "YOUR RIGHTS," and verbally advised him of the Miranda rights contained in the form. The appellant responded verbally that he understood his rights and also initialled each component of the rights form. There was no evidence of any promises, threats or coercion....began another interrogation of the appellant at about 12:40 p.m....

...the appellant was questioned off and on over a period from 10:00 a.m. until 2:30 p.m. At 2:44 p.m. and again at approximately 5:00 p.m., he gave statements to police in which he confessed his involvement in the murders. Both statements were tape-recorded."

Echols' medical records show how he could have committed the crime. He was violent and exhibited psychotic behaviors. None of this information is gossip. The killing of the dog statement is in a police report. There was no reason for the boy to lie about the dog being murdered.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
12:18 AM on 01/19/2012
The killing of the dog is was NEVER reported to the police. This statement is regarding the WM3 case and they have no evidence to back up their statement. THAT'S called hearsay. People lie, doesn't matter if you can establish a "reason" or not. If they can't back up their statements then you can't call it truth. This dog killing was never reported at the time of this "supposed" crime and there is no evidence. According to your logic, if I type Margaret 28 robbed a bank at gunpoint...must be true right? I'm typing it out and I have no reason to lie.....accept for the fact that I don't like you at all.
09:58 AM on 01/19/2012
What seems to be painfully obvious to me is that the police coerced, at the very least a mentally slow minor and at most a legally retarded minor into a false confession. If you want to see how easy it is to get a bullshit confession watch murder on a Sunday morning.
08:59 PM on 01/17/2012
The kids step dad!He said he didn't see his step son yet he beat him with a belt and a neighbor saw him with all three of the boys that afternoon yet police didn't interview the nwieghbors. HBO turned over a knife to the courts the stepdad said he never used that had the same DNA as his stepson's DNA. And watch that idot in the documentarty. He is so eat up with religion he can justify any thing he has done and if he thinks Satanist are going down for his crime then it's God's work. The guy is a piece of work. He's is a nut! The kids misbehaved he punished them (spear the rod spoil the child) and he raped one of them. Disgusting man. He is guilty but he did it in the name of the Lord! This is why I am agnostic!
04:51 PM on 01/18/2012
The step dad is my thought too... Does anyone know if they investigated him?
06:45 PM on 01/17/2012
Lets give credit where credit is due, Bruce Sinofsky also directed the Paradise Lost Films, These were a collaboration, co-directed.
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camelias and sweet tea
Small drinking village with a shrimping problem
04:31 PM on 01/17/2012
I still want to know...if not them...WHO? Who did it?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
efell
Careful with that axe, Eugene
05:16 PM on 01/18/2012
Pam Hobbs husband. Look into it. The principals of this story are definitely looking at him.
10:32 PM on 01/22/2012
I saw this film for the first time today, it gave me the chills! after seen the pictures of those inocent kidz i could not stop thinking of what those kidz went through. I say that they knew the person that did it and that is why they did not get away. it must of been someone they knew and whom they were afraid off. That crazy stepdad looked really scary to me just like his wife. I really hope that someone comes out and speak so that those kidz can rest in peace.

Betty From MIami