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Judge H. Lee Sarokin

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Shouldn't George Zimmerman Be Required to Prove Self-Defense?

Posted: 03/23/2012 5:23 pm

Imagine this scenario: a man shoots and kills someone. He tells the police he was temporarily insane at the time. So they say "OK you can go home and take your gun with you," because they can't contradict his claim of insanity at the time of the killing. Ridiculous? Yes, but according to CNN: "Police say they have not charged Zimmerman because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense." Am I missing something here? The only evidence of self-defense comes from the person who shot the victim. Doesn't he have a motive to lie? Isn't his credibility an issue? Aren't there surrounding circumstances that place the claim of self-defense in dispute? What is undisputed is that George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Whether or not there is a valid defense to that shooting is not a determination to be made by police -- particularly when based solely on the word of the shooter.

It would be unfair to reach any conclusions about Mr. Zimmerman's guilt at this stage, but it is likewise unfair to Trayvon Martin and his family to find Zimmerman innocent. It sounds as though Mr. Zimmerman admitted the shooting, said it was self-defense, and the police accepted his version and sent him home with the gun used in the shooting! Suppose there is evidence that a man committed a murder and he claims to have an alibi -- and "there is no evidence to contradict the alibi"? Does he go free or is he charged and required to present competent and believable evidence of the alibi. The shooting here is admitted. Charges must be filed and the defense has to be proven -- not accepted based solely upon the version of the perpetrator.

Those demanding that charges be filed certainly seem to be on firm ground. Mr. Zimmerman pursued the victim contrary to instructions not to do so. He was much bigger than Trayvon. He had a gun. Trayvon had Skittles. He was "suspicious" of Trayvon apparently without justification or good cause, and there is evidence that he had some predisposition to reach such a conclusion. There is evidence that someone heard Trayvon whimpering before the shooting and that he was running away. His girlfriend heard him ask Zimmerman why he was following him. There is some question about the use of a racial slur. The ultimate question is whether or not Mr. Zimmerman was in reasonable fear for his life and killed Trayvon solely because of that fear. He ultimately may be found innocent, but no sidewalk judgment by a police officer should suffice. Justice requires so much more. Both Mr. Zimmerman and the statute which shields him should be put on trial.

 
Imagine this scenario: a man shoots and kills someone. He tells the police he was temporarily insane at the time. So they say "OK you can go home and take your gun with you," because they can't contra...
Imagine this scenario: a man shoots and kills someone. He tells the police he was temporarily insane at the time. So they say "OK you can go home and take your gun with you," because they can't contra...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David Carson
12:48 AM on 04/05/2012
Your honor--the burden of proof has always been on the prosecution and as a judge, you should be familiar with the concept
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yeti7
don't need no stink'n badges
01:30 PM on 04/02/2012
"It would be unfair to reach any conclusions about Mr. Zimmerman's guilt at this stage, but it is likewise unfair to Trayvon Martin and his family to find Zimmerman innocent."
You say unfair then a few word later unfair to find Zimmerman innocent, it cannot be both Judge.
I thought in the United States a person is innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his/her peers ?
Reading this coming from a retired Fed. Judge really does make me concerned for our country.
There is such a rush to judgement, conviction and the death penalty on this shooting incident that it
is truly amazing that this very fact is not the news of day.
What happened to the idea of the state having to prove a case against someone before convicting them?
While the police and the state system may have messed up the investigation that is not Zimmerman fault.
Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, period. How can that be any other way in the USA?
I am surprised at you judge. You can fault the system all you want but you cannot say this man is guilty except by your personal opinion not by your title. No matter how we all feel about this Zimmerman is entitled to a fair and just trial.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Judge H. Lee Sarokin
Retired after serving 17 years on the federal cour
12:22 AM on 04/10/2012
yeti7 - You are wrong. It can be both. I said it would be wrong to find Zimmerman guilty "at this stage, and equally wrong to find him innocent and let him go "at this stage". I see no inconsistency nor anything deserving of your personal insults.
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05:10 AM on 03/30/2012
"Shouldn't George Zimmerman Be Required to Prove Self-Defense?"

A person is supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt'. It's up to the state to prove that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

That's what you're missing, your honor.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:23 AM on 03/30/2012
"That's what you're missing, your honor."

Seems pretty remarkable, doesn't it?
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yeti7
don't need no stink'n badges
01:35 PM on 04/02/2012
Yes and her everybody in the media calling Zimmermman the murderer and then so called black leaders want his head on a pike. No once is telling the black panthers to knock it off and if they don't stop with the threats then there should be at very least a "peace bond" or whatever it called this down on them and stop them from traveling to Florida to capture Zimmerman. So far as I know Zimmermann has no warrants out for his arrest--yet.
This is all getting way out of control.
04:46 PM on 04/02/2012
Great point. I would also like to point out a couple of things I have noticed about the judge's article, first he only includes one witness from the story TM's girlfriend she is actually the only "Witness" that backs his report of the story she is also the only witness that wasn't even at the scene. Second and I quote "Zimmerman and the victim", if Zimmerman can prove that he did act in self defense like you (judge) want him to are you prepared to write an article stating that Zimmerman is the victim in this story. It is clear that all this story is, is a Liberal attempt of advancing gun control and at what cost, the only reason I decided to respond to this story and not the others is this one represents the rediculousness of the whole thing it is a horrible thing that someone lost there life and there should be an extensive investigation but my bone is with the media and this judge, these false reports and rediculous stories are pitting segments of this society against each other and in my opinion if anything happens to Zimmerman or anyone else the media and "stars" that helped to fuel this fiasco should be held liable in court. Lastly, In a perfect world this story should open a dialogue about Concern of the ridiculous "gangsta" culture and mentality that is gripping the youth of this country that leads to the majority of crimes through out the nation.
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zlohcuc
"Serving millions from atop the Allegheny"
03:10 PM on 03/29/2012
Had the situation been reversed, the crew over at faux would be yammering about the legitimacy of the law and demanding "justice"
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
HisXLNC
No.
08:55 PM on 03/28/2012
"and the police accepted his version and sent him home with the gun used in the shooting! "

This is not true. The police kept Zimmerman's weapon.
03:45 PM on 03/29/2012
Source/Link???
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
HisXLNC
No.
05:52 PM on 03/28/2012
I want to ask everyone to take a step back for a minute and ask yourself this question: if there is a new investigation and at the end of that investigation the authorities also declare that zimmerman acted in self defense, are you prepared to accept that? I feel like most of you aren't. You've already decided that Zimmerman was not defending himself. So, I would ask then why are you calling for an investigation? You clearly only want the result you already think has happened. I've said it before and I'll repeat it here: if new evidence were to be produced, like security cam footage showing that Zimmerman's accounts were false, I'm completely willing to change my opinion. Why aren't you? There are people here who think Zimmerman got out of his car, chased Trayvon down, made him beg for his life, and killed him in cold blood. There are eyewitness accounts that back up Zimmerman's claims, and he had injuries documented at the scene. So, again, what do you want out of this? Are you using this as some part of an agenda?
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zlohcuc
"Serving millions from atop the Allegheny"
03:12 PM on 03/29/2012
Where are these eye witness accounts you are referrring to?
04:08 AM on 03/30/2012
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4 there's one right there that's been up since the night after the shooting. there's another 13 year old witness who say zimmerman on the ground being hit. I'm too tired to look up any links right now. google is your friend. my question for you is why don't you know any of this already? this info has been out there.
03:49 PM on 03/29/2012
So you are willing to only use some parts of the story to fit your agenda???

Another question for you, if it was self-defense then why did Zimmerman go after Martin AFTER the police told him not to? Why do YOU need actually visual proof? It's common sense.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
08:53 PM on 03/29/2012
"Another question for you, if it was self-defense then why did Zimmerman go after Martin AFTER the police told him not to?"

The act of self defense was after that time...namely when M allegedly attacked Z.
05:34 PM on 03/28/2012
I must say, for a judge you show a remarkably poor understanding of the law:

"Am I missing something here? The only evidence of self-defense comes from the person who shot the victim."

Yes you are missing something. Zimmerman had wounds to suggest he was being assaulted (the bloody back of his head is especially notable, as it's supporting evidence that Martin was slamming his head into the sidewalk), and one witness has confirmed his story. This doesn't prove he's telling the truth, but it's certainly more evidence then what you claim.

"Whether or not there is a valid defense to that shooting is not a determination to be made by police."

Say what? Police make these determinations all the time. That's the purpose of investigations. Now perhaps they screwed up in this case, but that doesn't mean police don't ever have the right to make such a determination. Of course they do. That's their job.

It is my position based on what I know that Zimmerman should be arrested. He created the incident by pursuing Martin when it wasn't necessary.

However, this is not a clear-cut case, and Sarokin's claims are either dishonest or ignorant in suggesting otherwise.
03:50 PM on 03/29/2012
Do you believe there was a cover-up by the local police? Just curious.
04:11 PM on 03/29/2012
Hard to say. The lack of visible injuries on the recently released survelance tape does raise the possibility, but I think it's more likely they just screwed up.
04:27 PM on 03/29/2012
Where is the "bloody back of his head" or any sign of injury after his alleged `life or death struggle' in the police video of him arriving at the station? And BTW, the homicide detective in charge of the case WANTED to hold Zimmerman on a manslaughter charge because he did not believe his story... how come that police determination was disallowed? Is it because Zimmerman, the police's "watch Captian" buddy, with the father who is a magistrate in Virginia, got special treatment?
04:18 AM on 03/30/2012
it looks like there's a really big gash on the back of his head. google the latest developments, and then please learn to not make snap judgments the first time you see or hear anything. that's a very dangerous practice.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:29 AM on 03/30/2012
"Where is the "bloody back of his head" or any sign of injury after his alleged `life or death struggle' in the police video of him arriving at the station?"

A low resolution surveillance video is NOT a detailed medical examination.

Think about that again.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Dennis Santiago
Asymmetric Provocateur
11:36 AM on 03/28/2012
With all due respect to your honor, you are falling into the trap of hysteria that it is imperative to avoid. The facts continue to emerge and even then they are at most anecdotes and hearsay. Precisely the kinds of things you should be diligent about advising people not to fall prey to.
10:50 PM on 03/27/2012
"Am I missing something here? The only evidence of self-defense comes from the person who shot the victim."

That's not true. There is also the physical evidence that Martin was beating his head against the concrete sidewalk (injuries, blood on the sidewalk, grass covering his back, etc.) and, even more convincingly, the one and only eyewitness, even while on the phone to 911, before he knew anything about anyone involved, also reported that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head against the pavement while Zimmerman screamed for help, even after the witness yelled at him to stop and threatened to call he police. So there is a lot of evidence besides Zimmerman's own word (in fact, all the evidence available) that shows that at the moment he shot Martin, Zimmerman was legitimately in fear for his life and was justified in shooting Martin in self-defense. Denying all the evidence doesn't magically make it go away.
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zlohcuc
"Serving millions from atop the Allegheny"
03:20 PM on 03/29/2012
What physical evidence, tapes show no evidence of grass stains, head wound blood, broken nose. Surely a broken nose would be documented at a hospital visit. You have parroted hearsay to make a case about which you know no more about than others who have read the "facts" and drawn there own "magical" conclusions
04:19 AM on 03/30/2012
again, google. there does appear to be a big gash on the back of his head in the tapes. but the tapes are very hard to see, so it's not good to make quick judgments based on low quality video.
03:51 PM on 03/29/2012
The evidence you speak off was made up the police and Zimmerman to cover it up. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:29 AM on 03/30/2012
Says the person whose mind is already made up.
timber1647
It's either sadness or euphoria
11:55 AM on 03/27/2012
What continues to puzzle me about this incident is that there hasn't been any real official review of the shooting. Police officers 99.9% of the time go out of there way to avoid using deadly force in detaining or arresting a suspected criminal. When there is a police shooting there is always a departmental review and often a civilian review to determine if the shooting was justified..a good shooting if you will. So far that does not seem to be the case here in Florida. The gentleman who fired was taken at his word that it was self defense. If shooting reviews are the norm for police officers, who are trained, why not for civilian shooters who are not? I fear without same we run the risk of having a Dodge City mentality spread across the country. I should point out that I support the ownership of firearms and the use of same to legally protect one's life and property.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
12:00 AM on 03/28/2012
"The gentleman who fired was taken at his word that it was self defense."

No...the police could not find any contrary evidence to produce Probable Cause. There is a huge difference.
timber1647
It's either sadness or euphoria
10:44 AM on 03/28/2012
The law in Florida allows for the "shooter" to claim self defense and that pretty much settles it. The wording and open endedness of the statute was why the majority of police departments in Florida were opposed to its enactment. As for the contrary evidence you mention there were no witnesses, so it made it difficult for the police to counter the shooters claim. In the end it may be proven that the shooter was justified under the law as written, but I still wonder why his firearm was secured for review and why, when told by the police dispatcher to back off, he didn't. 17 year olds are not suppose to die in this manner.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fudgefase
Boldly going nowhere...
09:12 AM on 03/27/2012
The police made a complete mess of this. I'm pretty sure if Trayvon had been standing there with a dead Zimmerman at his feet, claiming self defense, that he wouldn't have been sent home, with the gun! This was systemic racism at its basest, most unadulterated form. The black kid must have been the attacker. But I ask you now, why are we STILL waiting for an arrest, a confiscation of the weapon? An actual examination of the case? I would have thought the very least that should have happened would be that Zimmerman would have been arrested at the time and the weapon taken for forensics. It's possible that he'd have been released thereafter but it seems lunacy - and downright dereliction of duty - that he was not even disarmed in the immediate aftermath of a killing!
11:21 PM on 03/27/2012
you're right. they should've ignored the multiple eyewitnesses who saw trayvon on top of zimmerman hitting him, and the physical evidence at the scene. they should've said "why did you follow him in the first place? that's so mean! you're under arrest for following someone you thought looked suspicious. what? that's not against the law? you're under arrest anyway."
03:53 PM on 03/29/2012
So according to the what you say, then Martin was Standing His Ground when Zimmerman followed and approached him. Right?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
spartanladkenny
is amazing at predicting the future on HP
04:05 AM on 03/27/2012
The writer needs to remember its florida we're talking about here.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
02:25 AM on 03/27/2012
Shouldn't George Zimmerman Be Required to Prove Self-Defense?
No. If you would familiarize yourself with the Florida statute you'd see that the State must prove that is was not self defense in a Stand Your Ground case.
776.032  Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in (self-defense, home protection or defense of others) is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force . . . . As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jstjoe
Secure the blessings of liberty
04:25 AM on 03/27/2012
How can the state prove or disprove self-defense if, by the reading of this law, a potential suspect cannot even be DETAINED in alleged cases of self-defense ? By you making the argument that Zimmerman was immune from even being detained by the language in this law, you are basically stating that anyone with a gun has a license to kill as long as no one in the immediate vicinity is there at the moment the police arrive to refute a claim of self-defense. Good luck , Floridians, you're going to need it !!!
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
12:01 AM on 03/28/2012
It's a Burden of Proof issue.
denisedts
Here there and everywhere
09:09 AM on 03/28/2012
And this is where this law is wrong. If this were done the way things are done here in Illinois, Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged, he would then go to court and the state has its job of proving beyond reasonable doubt that he murdered Trayvon. Then of course it's on Zimmerman and his lawyer to prove he acted in self defense in killing him. After all that is said and done, the jury would then decide if it was murder or self defense. That's how this should have gone. Now we wait to see what will happen.......
12:27 PM on 03/27/2012
Does the fact that he said the young boy was running away from the area make a difference? Does the fact that Zimmerman was told to stop following after him make a difference and he chose to not listen? He is not a peace officer and does not have the right to take action into his own hands. They specifically told him do not follow him and wait for the police to get there. He didnt listen and chased him and killed him. How soon after did the police get here, was he where he told the dispatcher where he said he would be waiting? There are so many things that he did not comply with. Ive been in many places where I was completely uncomfortable, felt fear, but I did not take things into my own hands and take action. I waiting for the authorities to arrive and handle it as trained professionals. He was absolutely wrong in many things he did and I feel he should be held accountable for being irresponsible and taking a young mans life
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
12:03 AM on 03/28/2012
"Does the fact that Zimmerman was told to stop following after him make a difference and he chose to not listen? "

Nope. 911 operators have no authority to issue such orders or expect to be obeyed.

This doesn't mean that Z's continued tailing was prudent, however.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wyvern Wycliffe
02:24 AM on 03/27/2012
It appears that the main problem in this case is that of bond. Envision the expected scenario: Zimmerman is taken into custody, makes no statements, his attorney in an initial deposition at arraignment invokes a basic claim that the shooter acted in self-defense, and Zimmerman is released on bail, secured by a bond. Except for that detail, everything else is the same: Zimmerman would be at home preparing for a Grand Jury hearing. Whether Orlando would be on the brink of riots is conjecture. The question that you should ask is, "Is George Zimmerman a flight risk?"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jstjoe
Secure the blessings of liberty
04:28 AM on 03/27/2012
no , that would NOT be the only difference. There was no investigation done after Zimmerman was GIVEN HIS WEAPON BACK and released by police. Any charges filed after the fact will be argued without evidence , forensic and otherwise, that cannot be gotten now by the prosecution. The MAIN problem here is that an unarmed minor age US CITIZEN was shot to death and there was not even the most basic investigation done.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
12:04 AM on 03/28/2012
"There was no investigation done after Zimmerman was GIVEN HIS WEAPON BACK and released by police. "

You don't KNOW that...you PRESUME that on the basis of MSM accounts that are proving to be grossly distorted.
pamihami
This too, shall pass.
12:14 PM on 03/31/2012
Video of Zimmerman being brought to the police station in handcuffs, apparently there was some kind of investigation done.
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MizFlagPin
Standing for Truth, Justice, & the American Way
01:24 AM on 03/27/2012
Thank you Judge for making it plain and simple. In reading the comments, it is clear that many posting here and elsewhere on HuffPo have ulterior motives. They refuse to take the professional opinion of a Judge.