Gestapo Knocks at Door of Northwestern University Journalism School
I am always offended and annoyed with the labeling of some recent conduct or person with Nazism or Hitler or drawing analogies with the Holocaust and thereby belittling those horrific events in our history with some current less appalling and even minor occurrences. But I truly believe that the attempt of prosecutors to subpoena "the grades, grading criteria, class syllabus, expense reports and e-mail messages of their journalism students themselves" at Northwestern University warrants and deserves the Gestapo label.
It is a flagrant attempt to intimidate the Medill Innocence Project and other similar projects which have been so successful in overturning wrongful convictions. The alleged justification is that the prosecutors want to determine "whether students believed that they would receive better grades if witnesses they interviewed provided evidence to exonerate Mr. McKinney." So I take it that would mean that every time a detective obtained incriminating evidence, his entire background could be examined in order to determine his motives when interviewing a witness; whether he had received or expected a raise or a promotion; and if so whether he needed money; how much his debt was; what he was paying for rent and alimony, etc. In other words, the scope of the investigation would be extended to the motives of the investigator rather than the witness being investigated and interrogated.
Then there is the equally significant question of whether information directly relating to the guilt or innocence of the defendant can be sought from student journalists. Whether there is or should be a reporter's privilege has been the subject of great debate. If the prosecutor here were seeking incriminating (rather than exonerating) evidence derived from the student interviews, I would gladly withdraw my Gestapo label. At least in that instance, their purpose, but not necessarily their legal position, would be justified and acceptable. But the effort to investigate the students themselves warrants that label. The spokesperson for the prosecutor's office defends its actions:
"At the end of the day, all we're seeking is the same thing these students are: justice and truth." Rather it seems that they are trying to suppress the truth and subvert justice.
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Okay, so is the judge offending any of the victims of the Gestapo by using the word Gestapo? I mean, can some of you get over your incredibly fine and delicate sensibilities, (being so totally ravaged by usage of such a term), so others can appreciate and comment on the ACTUAL problem that the Judge is addressing here? I mean, he has apologized. Attacking the messenger here is just plain lame. Some folks just MUST be "righter" I guess...... It seems to me that those so against the use of the word actually are defending these "prosecutors" insane methods.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
clan1465 - Thanks. It so disheartening to me that the real issue here is being buried by the label.
Just like the Gestapo, they kicked down the doors, guns drawn, dogs at bay, whisked your students out of their beds in the middle of the night, never to be seen again,
Yeah,
Just like that....
Get real.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
research - UNCLE!!! I get it. But don't you think there were instances where the Gestapo searched homes and records (without dogs) looking for information on persons who were critical of the government in an effort to intimidate and silence them? I admit that they did much worse than what happened to these students, but what I have said elsewhere, and I hope you agree, is that what we call it is not as important as what has occurred. Forgive and forget the reference to the Gestapo. Please!
Forgiven. The defense did this with Mark Furman in the OJ case. Are the students are journalists or investigators if it leads to court actions.
Are the notes of journalist given different privacy protection than say a private investigator's notes doing the same work?
I think what this prosecutor is doing is outrageous. I hope those student records will remain protected. I doubt if the materials they are requesting will yield anything. There are so many factors that determine whether a student gets a particular grade - all determined by the professor; But all that aside, this is just intimidation. I also think your use of the WWII metaphors are spot on. I can't tell people whether or not to be offended. That's their business, but I think the power tactics used by this prosecutor are Gestapo-like and part of the discourse handed down to us from the tragedy of Nazism which we have been admonished repeatedly never to forget ---so that it doesn't happen again. I don't think you've used the term cheaply as has been the case too often recently..
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
FdeBear - Thanks for coming to my defense. Moreover, I would hate to see this important topic overshadowed by a focus on a label, particularly when I start the article by decrying the use of Hitler and Nazism in inappropriate ways.
Respectfully, Sir,
You do a gross disservice to all those who were subjected to the brutality of the Gestapo by using it
as you have. Comparing such a sitution to men who wore black uniform with skull on them in order to advance your positon is a bit of a surprise considering your former postion.
The sacred status given to studens who happen to be journalism student is a push. Using college students to conduct interview such as this sounds more than a bit suspect.
If this was trully a situation involving the Gestapo, there would be no request for documentation, no trial, no jury, they simply would have executed those in question and been done with it.
My family along with millions around the world gave life and limb to wipe the Gestapo off the planet.
The Gestapo no longer exists so making such a comparison not only does not sit well, it is a gross exageration and simply inacucurate.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
WilloiamL - I certainly understand and respect your position. See my reply to GrahmanInCanada below
As you know, as some know, and clearly what some of the journalism studentss and others do not understand, when one gets involved in investigative journalism, the legal system, are involved in conducting interviews/taking statements that could result in someone being released from jail-this is the reality of what occurs. I am not at all saying it is right but some folks, esp. younger folks, college students, need to understand the realities of the profession/situtation they are getting into.
As we know, what exists in the classroom and on paper does not always reflect realities on the ground, outside the classroom. As invasive as all of this is, investivgative journalist sd. realize that the nature of their profession and business is investigating-exposing, digging into, go after unexposed information about situations, people, events, and so forth.
Again, not saying it is "right" but at the same time would such behavior simply reflective of the nature of the profession and/or business? It is not as if defense attorney's and their staffs have not gone after witnesses against their clients in order to undermine their credibility on behalf of their clients, exercising their own definition of due dilligence?
As we know, across the line, across industries and professions, the bar for acceptable behavior has been lowered to the level of the ankles. In some cases, the bar is simply on the floor or there is no bar.
You don't think lives aren't at stake in this situation? I think you do.
I suspect there is a whole lotta people that would agree with you using the term Gestapo. There seems to be a lot happening now with controlling and manipulating journalism, oddly not enough journalist question why? I hope thats not a trend that continues.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
tnkeating - Thank you. As I have said in other replies, I regret that the focus is on the label rather than on the important issue involved. What we call it is not as important as what it is.
"FIGHT THE POWER!"
Thanks for bringing this to light Judge Sarokin.
T
...The Medill School is almost purely about marketing and polling manipulation.
There might be journalism schools in this country, but medill certainly isn't one of them.
This seems like a long fishing trip to alledge potential bias caused by interviewers. Assuming a Judge doesn't quash this what would the legal benefits be in defending ones convictions of arguing the students gained better grades for getting exonerating statements. Indeed it would seem more likely a fishing expedition for potential misconduct.
Also wouldn;'t this set a very disturbing precedent for the policies of major newspapers and pay programs for professional journalists if a court found such records were subpeonable. It would seem an easy harrassment tool for the government if they could subpeona the policies internal e-mails salary structures and bonus programs of professional news organizations. Perhaps shield laws would prevent this but aren't written well enough to protect the university students.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
AJG - I agree. The precedent could be frightening. Should it make any difference that a reporter is pursuing a story in the hopes of winning a Pulitzer! If the story is true, the motives of the reporter are immaterial. As you point out, the potential for harassment is unlimited.
Dear Judge Sarokin,
I have commented twice on the difference between the Gestapo and these prosecutors in the politest terms possible, without any ad hominem comments directed at you or anybody, and as one of your fans, you know that when I disagree with you I always show respect.
There is a difference between the Gestapo and these prosecutors, but apparently commentators are not to say what it might be.
However, I think the word Gestapo was a very bad choice of words.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
Graham - I respect your views and accept your criticism. However, the analogy may be apt. The students believe that a prosecutor's office has convicted an innocent man and is seeking information to support that claim. That same prosecutor's office has launched an investigation in to the private lives of the students and is intent on searching material having no relevance to the conviction. This is an attempt to intimidate and discourage the students from pursuing the investigation and possibly others like it. It is a direct attack upon freedom of the press. What if Nixon had launched such an investigation in to the lives of Woodward and Bernstein while they were investigating Watergate? Gestapo-like or not, what we call it is not as important as what it is.
Oh, one more thing. How come the prosecutors can't just go to the Feds and get this info? Doesn't the data mining they're doing collect all the student data from all the university computers?
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
GreatNews27 - Let's hope not!
The Judge must be a damn liberal. A conservative judge would have preserved our freedoms by releasing all personal and private information on these 'students'.
See Judge H. Lee Sarokin's Profile
GreatNews27 - A judge is yet to decide the matter.....we will see whether your prediction is right....
Huh??? That just sounds silly. Judges are supposed to follow the law as prescribed. Just reading "would have preserved our freedoms by releasing all personal and private information on these students" are you being sarcastic? You are aren't you? I'm sorry, I don't feel well today.
If this stands, the anwser is simple: Subpeona the exact same information from every prosecutor, investigatior and prosecution witness. If the courts allow it for one side, they must allow it for the other.
gotta wonder if gov perry of texas who recently revamped board members in order to avoid an investigation into executing a likely innocent man..is hoping this will set precident that will somehow help him look better legally? ignore those pesky folks who seek truth after iffy convictions darn it!
Issues like these are some of the reasons I call on all Americans to engage in the process of jury nullification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
I have little to no confidence in the American system of justice, where you have the best justice that money can buy.
No money, no justice.
While I understand the subject issues are at state level, the federal judiciary oversees Constitutional matters, and if this is not a matter of "equal" treatment under law, then I don't know what is.
The Federal judiciary has failed the American people, in not only the area of minority rights, but also in applying the 14th amendment of equal treatment under law.
The federal judiciary is defeating the main reason the federal judiciary was made independent by the Framers: to protect the minority or powerless.
Very bad idea. Undermines the law.
What would you suggest to correct this failed justice system, where money can buy you justice? or are you advocating for the status quo?
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