iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Judge H. Lee Sarokin

Judge H. Lee Sarokin

Posted: May 10, 2010 12:19 PM

Should Terror Suspects be Mirandized?

What's Your Reaction:

While Republicans decry the encroachments into the Constitution by the federal government's social programs under a Democratic administration, some have no hesitancy in encroaching on the Bill of Rights in the name of national security. With the arrest of Faisal Shahzad, the Times Square bomber, they have renewed their clamor that terrorist suspects should not be given Miranda warnings or other constitutional rights; should be subjected to "enhanced interrogation"; and be processed in military tribunals rather than civilian courts.

The entire argument is predicated upon the presumption of guilt. Yes, in this case, it appears that we have caught the perpetrator red-handed. The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, so the argument for treating him differently has some visceral appeal. But let's test it by the facts of this very case. For a considerable period of time, law enforcement (and I imagine a vast majority of the world) suspected the man seen on a security camera taking off and changing his shirt and looking furtively at the car with the bomb in it was the terrorist. He turned out to be completely innocent, but for some time, he was clearly a suspect. If arrested, should he have been given his Miranda warnings and other constitutional rights; should he have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation"; should he have been processed in a military tribunal, if they decided to proceed against him?

We cannot have two systems of justice depending on how strong the case is against the suspected terrorist -- the person probably guilty forfeiting constitutional rights and the person possibly innocent retaining them. And the fact is that the FBI could have questioned Mr. Shahzad without advising him of his rights under the "public safety exception" for a considerable period of time, which apparently they did. There is also the unsubstantiated assumption that terrorist suspects are otherwise unaware of their rights until advised of them, and it is that advice which suddenly terminates their cooperation. It is certainly desirable that as much information as possible be obtained from someone involved in terrorist activity, but the Constitution does not carve out exceptions for those who are clearly or probably guilty. There is current discussion about enacting laws which may give law enforcement greater latitude when dealing with terrorist suspects. But we should proceed with great caution in doing so. Neither anger nor fear is sufficient to diminish constitutional rights which protect us all -- the innocent along with the guilty.


 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 227
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (5 total)
04:55 PM on 05/11/2010
We should all recognize the political imperative from whence this arguement springs. And that's the Bush administrations programs that still have a boatload of people to process through some as yet unclear judicial system.

Many of them denied their rights Republicans are working deseperately to retroactively create approval for actions that can only be deemed at best innept.
04:51 PM on 05/11/2010
Judges trade favors in this state all the time. Ed Nottingham is the paradigmatic example: He was caught dead-to-rights, which is why he had to resign. But he's still practicing law, and not facing a moment of prison time. The local USA worked for Jack Abramoff's old firm, and actually lobbied for the freakin' Mashpee Tribe (and didn't report it). And where else but in Colorado would you find the singular spectacle of judges deciding a case where they are the defendants? ZIMBABWE?!?

When is the last time any federal judge has been disciplined for misconduct on the bench? Never. We've (I'm not alone here) documented dozens of federal felonies. But when even one man is above the law, there is no law. As Justice Brandeis put it:

"Decency, security and liberty alike demand that government officials be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself."

Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 485 (1928) (Brandeis, J., dissenting).

And you wonder why I've lost faith in our system....
04:42 PM on 05/11/2010
Judge Sarokin:

With all respect, I have yet to see a single honest judge in fifteen years, either in Colorado or federal courts. The other shoe of the Denver Players prostitution scandal is about to drop, and I have been told by my sources that OTHER judges will be implicated.

According to Senior Judge John L. Kane of the District of Colorado, the Tenth Circuit would not even censure a judge who solicited a bribe. Chief Judge Edward Nottingham of that District was caught patronizing Elliot Spitzer-class hookers on a weekly-basis, even when he was courting his third wife -- his federally-mandated financial disclosure statements showed that there is no way that he could afford over $1,000 a week on hookers. Judge Robert Blackburn of that District vacated a $1.3 million wrongful termination suit against a fireman and had the winning attorney suspended for a year, even though the state bar investigator admitted after his investigation that the attorney had done nothing wrong. Water deals. Land deals. Mishpucha discounts on public land to developers, facilitated by Roy Romer. The quashing of the Silverado criminal prosecution of Larry Mizel and Neil Bush by the Bush #41 administration. I can't even begin to get my mind around the breadth of corruption in this state. [continued]
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DrJykell
Truth hunter
03:54 PM on 05/11/2010
This debate is a complete joke,,,,,,,,,, and until it includes those who fund terrorism its meaningless.
Maybe keeping the focus on the single "whacko" who truly couldn't find his own a$$ with both hands brings up the right to remain silent,, but it also keeps the focus off the real problem,,,funding!
I've never heard the MSM announce any type of funding that wasn't from another terrorist group and if you just pay attn to other nations you'll soon learn what terrorism is really a used for....

At a June 2007 hearing, witnesses testified that there was a pattern of complicity between Colombian terrorists and multinational corporations -- including the Alabama-based Drummond Co. Inc., which allegedly paid members of a Colombian terrorist group to kill three union organizers. Other companies with operations in Colombia that were mentioned at Delahunt's hearing include Occidental, Coca-Cola and ExxonMobil.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15535

I guess they all still have the right to remain silent/guilty!
03:26 PM on 05/11/2010
Judge,

Did you see that former Pres. Bill Clinton is now endorsing that individuals on 'suspect lists' be stripped of fundamental rights?
05:30 PM on 05/11/2010
Obama like Clinton is a "DLC" Democrat. Repuke lite!!!
03:04 PM on 05/11/2010
The article states "Should terror suspects be Mirandized"...the answer is it depends.
This is no ordinary suspect; this suspect is an American citizen and in America
you have to be given your Miranda rights regardless of the crime. However if the suspect
was not an American then he or she could be considered an enemy of the state and thus
be denied any legal rights (I see such terrorist actions by someone who is not a citizen as
a act of war). Although from a human point of view “every man has a right to shut his or her
mouth” whether or not you let them know.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
meldah
02:36 PM on 05/11/2010
On March 13, 1963 Ernesto Miranda was arrested in Arizona because the Arizona Police suspected him of kidnapping a women, long story short he was convicted of the rape and kidnapping using the illegally obtained confession. Eventually the U.S. Supreme Court found for Miranda and he was retired, and again Found Guilty.

Miranda warnings are more for the protection of all Law Enforcement agencies. It is not a free pass, although when a crime is in process, a victim or dictums lives in the balance it is a test of America and Americans. A test we passed with Faisal Shahzad

Even with all our protections, a few people in Prison are innocent and pay the ultimate price. Most recently in Todd Willingham in Texas. These are mistakes nobody can make right.

We are living in the ultimate age of science, and Shahzad was caught not by forgetting who and what America is and stands for, but because of the technology we have developed. After Shahzad was captured and given his Miranda warning, he continued to talk, is talking even still. This is absolute proof that all our laws, all our protections work. Work for the Police, work for the people.

America is in a state of Panic, and when panic takes over freedoms are lost. The GOP is fomenting this panic by insinuating this Administration isn’t keeping us safe. These Politicians and rightwing pundits are stoking fear and panic, Again. Don’t fall for their line of bull.
02:29 PM on 05/13/2010
Thanks.
01:52 PM on 05/11/2010
Lest I be misunderstood here, ours is a system I love and revere, understanding it much better than the vast majority of you. However, it is not without its flaws, and the flaw of judicial overreach has become fatal. So, call me crazy. I believe it must be defended if we are to be (I won't say "remain" at this point, as that would be dishonest) a free people, but its mortal enemy is the one Jefferson identified two centuries ago: our out-of-control judiciary.

My loyalty is not to a person, to a party, or even our country. My loyalty is to the Constitution alone, and there it will remain.
02:30 PM on 05/11/2010
I was looking at some of your past post and based on what I read: "You have the right to remain silent"
03:02 PM on 05/11/2010
if you dont no your rights you will get violated with out your consent. i agree "you have the right to remain silent"
02:51 PM on 05/13/2010
"Lest I be misunderstood here...." Go that one right. Not sure I really understand much of your vastness.
01:28 PM on 05/11/2010
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? We can trust our government implicitly -- Wendy, siamao, and Eris have assured us of this. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, unless the one wielding it wears a black robe. Our judges are unelected and unaccountable, but they are such good dancers....

A "right" is something no one can take away from you. If a judge can take it away from you, you don't have it. "To take away all remedy for the enforcement of a right is to take away the right itself”. Poindexter v. Greenhow, 114 U.S. 270, 303 (1884). But fear not, Comrades! The Great Sarokin is on the case, assuring us that the provisions of the Soviet Constitution of 1937 are absolutely inviolable.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MrBadger
12:35 PM on 05/11/2010
Thank you for the excellent analysis. What concerns me about all of this is the ongoing, tacit assumption that "the end justifies the means." Does it become OK to disregard the rule of law if it "keeps people safe?" History shows that the biggest threat to a free people are not nasty terrorists, but ABUSE OF POWER. The moment we are willing to sacrifice the rule of law for "safety" we make ourselves vulnerable to the abuse of the justice system by those in power. I'm much more afraid of that then of some Bozo with fireworks in his car... or even serious weapons of mass destruction.

As Americans, we should be ready to die rather than allow the erosion of our individual liberties and the rule of law in the name of "safety". That way lies dictatorship and totalitarianism.
01:39 PM on 05/11/2010
MrBadger: "History shows that the biggest threat to a free people are not nasty terrorists, but ABUSE OF POWER. The moment we are willing to sacrifice the rule of law for "safety" we make ourselves vulnerable to the abuse of the justice system by those in power."

That's why I'm on Judge Sarokin's case. The rule of law is most often sacrificed for expediency, and judges are the most consistent culprits. He's a very bright man, and has the training and education to know better. Other folks around here, not so much.

MrB: "As Americans, we should be ready to die rather than allow the erosion of our individual liberties and the rule of law in the name of "safety". That way lies dictatorship and totalitarianism."

Absolutely. But if you do take a principled stance, you better expect to be labeled as angry, and even paranoid schizophrenic. Americans have become so complacent that they don't understand that when one loses his rights, it creates a precedent capable of ensnaring them. Whether it is me, Jess Radack, or Faisal Shahzad, we are all canaries in the coal mine.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MrBadger
03:34 PM on 05/11/2010
Whether you get labeled as angry or crazy depends a lot on one's tone.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Judge H. Lee Sarokin
Retired after serving 17 years on the federal cour
02:08 PM on 05/11/2010
MrBadger - Thank you. Dick Cheney always justified his constitutional encroachments on the ground that they were working. Torturing people may (but not often) bring results., but it is still torture and still wrong.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MTibbs
no, YOUR micro-bio is empty!!
02:35 PM on 05/11/2010
exactly. My counter-argument for that was always: "bringing the accused's kid in and shooting him in the head in order to get him to talk would be effective as well. That doesn't make it right."
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MrBadger
03:37 PM on 05/11/2010
Yes. And people kept making the argument "No, they're not REALLY working" (they probably weren't) when the real argument is "It doesn't matter whether they work, such actions remove us from under the rule of law and thus threaten the very fabric of our society." The Bush administration scared the wee out of me. I don't think people really appreciate how fundamentally destructive it was to the foundations of our freedom!

(And I wish I thought the Obama administration was doing more to pull us back from that cliff edge! But at least they seem to have applied the breaks!)
11:55 AM on 05/11/2010
Amazingly long winded. A right is a right. No one can take it away. That's the idea and definition of "rights". Why babble on past that?
12:10 PM on 05/11/2010
Seriously? It was 3 paragraphs. If you need it shortened, go watch Sesame Street. Grow an attention span and find the nuance in what he's saying.
12:20 PM on 05/11/2010
People don't understand this concept. They think that if a "right" exists on paper, it exists in the real world. "To take away all remedy for the enforcement of a right is to take away the right itself”. Poindexter v. Greenhow, 114 U.S. 270, 303 (1884).

And I thought the Tea Partiers were morons....
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
siamao
11:39 AM on 05/11/2010
Excellent points, Judge Sarokin. Thank you for a succinct, but powerful argument.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Judge H. Lee Sarokin
Retired after serving 17 years on the federal cour
02:10 PM on 05/11/2010
siamao - Thank you.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MTibbs
no, YOUR micro-bio is empty!!
11:20 AM on 05/11/2010
judge,

Isn't it true that Miranda is basically and FYI kind of thing? I mean, even if a person is not read their Miranda rights, those rights still apply to them. Is that correct?

Is it true that the rights covered by Miranda are afforded not only to citizens, but anyone on our soil?
11:38 AM on 05/11/2010
I'll save him the time. Yes and yes. Never say a word in the back of a police car -- your conversations are being taped, and everything you say WILL be used against you.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Judge H. Lee Sarokin
Retired after serving 17 years on the federal cour
02:13 PM on 05/11/2010
MTibbs - Yes, Miranda rights apply even absent the warnings and to all persons arrested here. However, failure to give the warnings may make certain evidence inadmissible.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MTibbs
no, YOUR micro-bio is empty!!
02:31 PM on 05/11/2010
Thanks for your reply.
So basically, NOT mirandizing the suspect puts the case in more jeopardy than it otherwise would have been.
I asked because the republicans are implying that mirandizing someone actually *confers* such rights onto that person. I am just wondering why the media doesn't make it clear that reading Miranda doesn't give someone rights. I keep hearing people say "why should he have the right to a lawyer?" or "he shouldn't have the right to remain silent." The truth is that the accused has such rights whether or not they are explained to him.
11:05 AM on 05/11/2010
I'm off for a little golfing vacation in Arizona ... I've become so inured to civil rights violations that they no longer surprise or discomfit me any more....

We're all probably guilty. After all, that is why our government keeps us under constant surveillance....
12:20 PM on 05/11/2010
And yes, this is sarcasm.
01:06 PM on 05/11/2010
you had me for a sec
11:00 AM on 05/11/2010
That none of us felt responsible for having lost our freedom has been a part of an insidious progression. In the beginning the attention of the flock was directed not to the marauding wolf but to our own deviant members within the flock. We rejoiced as the wolf destroyed them for they were our enemies. We were told that the weak lay under the rocks while we faced the blizzards to rustle our food, and we did not care when the wolf took them. We argued that they deserved it. When one of our flock faced the wolf alone it was always eaten. Each of us was afraid of the wolf, but as a flock we were not afraid. Indeed the wolf cleansed the herd by destroying the weak and dismembering the aberrant element within. As time went by, strangely, the herd felt more secure under the rule of the wolf. It believed that by belonging to this wolf it would remain safe from all the other wolves. But we were eaten just the same."

-- Gerry Spence

Enjoy what you believe to be your freedom, while it lasts. When they come for you, you may find that there is no one left to help, Pastor Niemoller.
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
siamao
11:41 AM on 05/11/2010
I was going to ask you if you'd ever heard of "over-writing?" Uh oh.
Gerry Spence, have you ever heard of over-writing?