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A Personal Case for Classical Homeopathy: Part II

Posted: 12/29/2011 9:30 am

After the debate with my last articles on this topic, I find I couldn't agree with the critics more. Homeopathy is strange and sounds magical. When I try to explain it to people -- despite years of study and personal/professional experience -- I wind up sounding like my worst woo-woo nightmare, stumbling over words like "energy," "resonance" and "organism."

As I stumble, my husband patiently awaits my sound byte, still anxiously hoping I can give him a way to explain what I do to save him from sounding just as ridiculous.

As he is a musician, I put it to him this way: "Think of it as you do of music... notes and chords... entire arrangements of single notes (or combinations thereof) and the spaces between them."

He looked at me, single eyebrow raised. I had crossed over onto his turf. I'd better know what I'm talking about.

"In homeopathy, you can think of both the human being (or any living creature for that matter) and the remedy as pieces of music. A person comes in for treatment and the disease or pathology is presenting as a song, out of tune with the rest of the person when in a healthy state. We look for a remedy that most closely matches the totality of that pathology's song. When we give it to the patient, the remedy cancels the disease. A song for a song. Like cures like."

Eyebrow is lowered. I am momentarily reprieved. "Is it phase cancellation?"

"I'm not sure because it's not an opposing frequency, it's a similar one. But maybe the amplitudes are opposing."

Eyebrow is raised. I realize that I'm back to where I started.

Perhaps an easier way to see it is with this metaphor:

See yourself as a being of a million small crystals, each one with a frequency. When you become ill, some of those crystals change frequency and begin to vibrate or sing out of tune. When we choose a remedy, we choose it to best match those crystals that have fallen out of tune. When delivered, it shatters those sick crystals, leaving only the healthy ones behind.

Admittedly, it is a metaphor, and as such, still leaves a great deal unexplained. I can understand the frustration of allopaths and critics with the obvious absence of hard, linear facts that are repeatable regardless of the person or place. Compared to current pharmaceutical philosophy, making scientific "sense" of homeopathy is like trying to play ordinary billiards in a quantum pool hall.

The problem is that homeopathy is aimed at treating the individual with a single remedy, chosen specifically for him or her. It is not for treating masses of people with the same pill. Twenty people could have the "same" flu, but each one would need a different remedy (not necessarily Oscillococcinum) and be rightly cured because each one would manifest illness in a way that is utterly unique to him-/herself. We always treat the person, not the disease. As such it is exceedingly difficult, if not impossible to replicate homeopathic treatment the way pharmaceutical companies try to do in drug trials.

A Simple Case in Point

My dog, who is not generally considered a good candidate for placebo, was sitting in on a session with a young patient I had been seeing for quite a while. While he was curled up on the couch next to her, he looked up at my patient and she frowned, "God, what's wrong with him?!"

Without warning his eye had started bulging out of its socket. I was taken aback and instantly concerned. I begged her indulgence and called my homeopathic vet, who is located about two hours from us. He told me to take him for an emergency physical exam at a local hospital.

I asked for an emergency reschedule (she was in no danger and there was no threat to the therapeutic relationship) and rushed him over. After the exam, the local vet ruled out the more terrifying possibilities (rupture, tumor etc...) and pronounced it an inflammation, probably due to a scratch, spider bite or bee sting. She prescribed a bucket full of different pills and ointments.

More at ease now that there was no crisis and my panic had passed, I thanked her and left with just one of the ointments in case I didn't find the right remedy immediately.

When I got back, I went to the repertory (in a computer, unlike my first homeopathic physician) and made a scrupulous list of his visible symptoms. Obviously I could only surmise how he felt, so I didn't even try. These were the rubrics I chose for him:

1. Eye, inflammation

2. Eye, inflammation, acute

3. Generals, aggravated on the right side

4. Generals, sudden onset

5. Eye, lachrymation

6. Eye, protrusion with red discoloration.

The remedy was Apis Mellifica, potentized bee venom. This is a particularly straightforward example of how like (when it is potentized, meaning highly diluted to the smallest possible dose) cures like: Venom cancels out venom. Within minutes of giving the dog a few pellets, the inflammation was gone. And it never came back. No other treatment was necessary.

Is it always so straightforward? Hardly. I wish it were. It is especially more complicated when people come in with years and years of emotional suffering, chronic illness, and lists of medications sometimes two pages long. I had one patient on 27 medications because she had been diagnosed depressed. Was she feeling any better? Not in the slightest. It was a long haul to wellness for her with the incredible help of a thorough and patient physician.

Taking someone's case in this situation takes a great deal more time, sensitivity and patience than a simple inflammation. But the essential idea, the bedrock of the interview is the same: Find the remedy that matches the totality of symptoms, which means understanding precisely what it is in her life, in her experience, in her soul that has led to and expresses the essence of the state she is in. It is not enough to say someone is depressed. The word "depressed" doesn't really mean anything. To say, on the other hand, as one patient did, that she felt forsaken, was chronically sad because she felt all alone in the world yet she was averse to company -- that begins to narrow it down a bit. When she added that she had no will power, yet felt better from a good debate, a challenging puzzle, or a lively conversation (mental exertion ameliorates), we begin to see how "depression" expressed itself uniquely in her. The remedy that patient needed (based on those and other symptoms) was Natrum Silicatum.

Now, just because you're sad doesn't mean you should go buy Natrum Silicatum. That is the mistake a lot of people and even poorly trained homeopaths make. It is unlikely that you will receive the benefit she did because her state (remember those crystals) was a Natrum Silicatum state. When it was given, what was unhealthy shattered and left behind only what was vital and strong.

I do not blame the debunkers. Homeopathy is very hard to repeat experimentally precisely because of the way it works: Individually. And so much of its success is in the hands of the homeopath whose task it is to see the patient clearly for who he or she is, to see that particular light, to hear that singular song. This is a hard pill to swallow until you've seen it work. But when you have seen it -- it's the easiest one of all.

 
 
 

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02:42 PM on 02/05/2012
Even if you don't want to have to eat your way through all the scientific evidence that shows that Homeopathy is a fraud consider the case of Penelope Dingle. A woman who ultimately died from the ministerin­gs of a morally bankrupt homeopath who might have lived if only she was referred to a doctor early enough and had her colorectal cancer treated in its early stages.

http://www­.safetyand­quality.he­alth.wa.go­v.au/docs/­mortality_­review/inq­uest_findi­ng/Dingle_­Finding.pd­f

If ever there was a case in support of denying the right of these charlatans to make any kind of health claim this must be it. I dare any advocate of homeopathy to read the coroners report describing the agony this woman was in before she ultimately consented to life saving surgery and tell me that homeopathy is anything but a lie and a sham.

You will be horrified to read that even when Penelope called her homeopath in a life-threa­tening condition - distended bowel requiring immediate surgery, she was threatened with the withdrawal of the 'therapeut­ic' relationsh­ip if she went ahead with the surgery. Classy.
02:27 AM on 01/09/2012
If Homeopathy is diluting 'cures' in lot of water and individualizing the treatment I guess it must have cured my fish.

After all, I gave him a lot of water.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
04:10 PM on 01/10/2012
A patient needs homeopathic medicine like a fish needs water.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
07:43 AM on 01/11/2012
If that were true, then all patients who do not undertake homeopathy would be dead, something that certainly isn't true. Thanks for playing, try again.
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03:12 PM on 01/06/2012
"The remedy was Apis Mellifica, potentized bee venom. This is a particularly straightforward example of how like (when it is potentized, meaning highly diluted to the smallest possible dose) cures like: Venom cancels out venom."

Okay, so a lot of the metaphors are weak in the article, and the author admits as much, but I think this hidden metaophor is the real problem. It might SOUND like giving someone "potentized" bee venom is like using antivenin, and that using antivenin is an example of "like cures like", but that is not so. Antivenin is the product of giving an organism venom and then harvesting the antibodies that the body naturally produces as a response. It is not the giving of small amounts (or, no amount as is frequently the case here) of venom, it is giving the antivenin. It is therefore not a confirmation of the principal of like treating like.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
04:12 PM on 01/10/2012
some examples of "like cures like"

a. An onion is a substance which makes your eyes water and your nose burn. If you are having an attack of hay fever with watering eyes and a burning nose, a homeopathic remedy made from onion called allium cepa can relieve it.

b. Poison ivy causes redness, intense itching, burning, blistering and sometimes stiff muscles. Potentised poison ivy called as rhus tox (a homeopathy medicine) has been used for herpes, burns, eczema, allergy, arthritis, etc.
01:46 AM on 01/11/2012
Um Nancy, if the person you are responding to questions the theory undergirding homeopathy then baldly repeating those principles is not a substantive response.

Instead you need to reference at least one high-quality study that evidences that "like cures like". For example, provide a reference to a high quality study indicating that homeopathic doses of onions cause the effects you claim they cause.
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09:40 PM on 01/11/2012
You are missing the point of the post: The "Like cures Like" principal isn't really a principle at all, its a shay metaphor that cobbles together different phenomena that have their own knowable causes. Besides that, you are just assuming your own conclusion, rather than engaging the content of the post.
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Nelson Montana
Artist, Author, Composer
11:57 AM on 01/06/2012
As a musician and an author in the health field I can sincerely say that analogy of homeopathy to music is the silliest thing I've ever heard.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
12:44 PM on 01/05/2012
homeopathy has provide Evidence for Specific Disease Conditions where it has acted curatively. This has been demonstrated many times and has been documented
http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/export/sites/bha_site/research/evidence_by_condition_refs.pdf
http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/research/evidence-base-for-homeopathy-2/evidence-base-for-homeopathy/#link_evidence
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
06:45 AM on 01/06/2012
Homeopathy does provide evidence, you are right.
Unfortunately for you that evidence is exrtremely weak, and all valid meta-analyses/systematic reviews demonstrate that for proper trials with decent methodology, homeopathy does not perform any better than placebo.
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ChristyRed
10:05 AM on 01/06/2012
Repeating misinformation does not make it true. It does not invalidate the facts, change the facts or make them disappear as you wish would happen. Unfortunately, you're engaging in wishful thinking.
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ChristyRed
12:01 PM on 01/06/2012
Here's some news from this morning's paper with the headline: "J&J agrees to $1B settlement". J&J (Johnson and Johnson) is the world's largest health care company.

J&J agreed to the fine and is settling civil and criminal charges for its marketing practices of Risperdal. The FDA approved Risperdal to treat shizophrenia, but J&J has been marketing it for illnesses ranging from post-traumatic-stress disorder to dementia. Risperdal costs much more than older generic drugs that treated the same illnesses, but government-funded studies found it often was no more effective. Risperdal cost taxpayers millions of dollars through Medicare and Medicaid claims.

This will be the third time in less than three years that J&J has settled claims stemming from the marketing of its drugs.

A spokesman for "Taxpayers Against Fraud" told the press: "These pharmaceutical companies are going to be running, not walking, to the settlement table."

In November GlaxoSmithKline said it reached an agreement in principle to pay $3B to settle a government investigation into its sales and marketing practices for some of its drugs.

J&J stock closed down at $65.40 on Thursday, down 8 cents.

I recommend homeopathy for a lot of good reasons.
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Jimserac
ONE from Many ...
09:03 AM on 01/04/2012
Regarding the Shang "Meta-analysis" which is erroneously cited by some as some sort of "proof" that homeopathy=placebo effect:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)67879-8/fulltext

There are numerous other criticisms, easily found, of the Shang et al. paper.

Applying double blinded placebo controlled testing, which is designed for pharmaceuticals of known biochemistry, to ultra high dilutions whose mechanisms, if any, are unknown? Questionable. Very questionable.

AND:
http://www.zeusinfoservice.com/Homeopathy/RuttenStolpershangrebuttalhomeopathy10.22.08yhomp_471.pdf

"A review of data provided after publication of Shang et
al’s analysis did not support the conclusion that homeopathy is a placebo effect. There was intermingling of comparison of quality and comparison of effects, and thus
matching was lost." (Quoted from Rutten et al. in the above cited article).

The attempt to represent a single meta analysis, manipulated down to 8 trials, based on questionable assumptions, data juggling and qualitatively dissimilar pretend "matchings" of homeopathic and conventional trials, which fell apart in the end, fails, its conclusions are therefore disregarded.

Attempts by pseudo-skeptics citing the likes of the Shang article to portray perfectly capable MD's and other qualified health professionals, scientific researchers, and patients who report long term successful use of homeopathy and success in some acute, even life threatening cases, as a bunch of self deluded fools is insulting to every intelligent person.

The intellectual source of anti-homeopathy hysteria? See HERE:
http://www.anh-europe.org/news/anh-feature-beware-scientism’s-onward-march
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
10:00 AM on 01/04/2012
"Applying double blinded placebo controlled testing, which is designed for pharmaceut­icals of known biochemist­ry, to ultra high dilutions whose mechanisms­, if any, are unknown? Questionab­le. Very questionab­le."

Why? Simply making such a bold assertion as this doesn't make it true. This is the logical fallacy known as special pleading.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/special-pleading.html

I described below how it would be easy to assess homeopathy's individualized treatment regimen using a double-blind placebo controlled method. You have provided absolutely ZERO reasoning to support your claim above. That is probably because there is NO reasoning that would logically support such a contention, as it is special pleading.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
05:57 PM on 01/04/2012
Exactly. That's like saying that logic doesn't apply to something because we don't know much about it. There's little reason why an RCT should be less valid for one thing than another in a way that would depend on how it works.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
07:32 AM on 01/05/2012
Mechanism of action of homeopathic medicines

Quantum Coherance Domains (Dr. G. Preparata, 1994)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m8223053u1435634/
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ChristyRed
10:13 AM on 01/04/2012
I tried to post the link to the Lancet abstract of the Reilly trial too, but it didn't work. Here's a link to PubMed that does work:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2876326

Conclusions: "No evidence emerged to support the idea that placebo action fully explains the clinical response to homeopathic drugs."

On top of that, the one trial out of the eight which Shang used specifically to "prove" homeopathy doesn't work and on which his analysis hinged was done on the use of Arnica to prevent muscle soreness in long distance runners. The problem with that is that the provings don't show Arnica can prevent muscle soreness so homeopaths don't prescribe it for that purpose. They prescribe it for, among many other things, muscless soreness after exertion and bruising, swelling and pain from blunt trauma.

Arnica was proven successful in reducing muscle soreness after exertion in a trial on marathon runners in the 1995 Oslo Marathon.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965229998800782
02:04 PM on 01/04/2012
Arnica reduces muscle soreness after exertion? Once again - homeopathy applied to a self limiting condition with nebulous subjective symptoms that will most likely resolve by itself in variable lengths of time!
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
06:35 PM on 01/04/2012
You have had this study pointed out to you again and again - it was to treat muscle soreness, not prevent it, something you claim happens.
Stop lying.
12:37 AM on 01/02/2012
". When I try to explain it to people -- despite years of study and personal/professional experience -- I wind up sounding like my worst woo-woo nightmare, stumbling over words like "energy," "resonance" and "organism." .... "

Well, that's because it IS a woo-woo nightmare.
11:21 PM on 01/02/2012
Except of course the minor details that it works, even if we don't understand exactly why..
11:26 PM on 01/02/2012
Here's the problem:

- The study of human behavior shows that we are extraordinarily prone to self-deception and wishful thinking.

- The study of physics, chemistry, and biology shows that there are extremely strong reasons for thinking that homeopathy cannot possibly work.

I put those together and draw the conclusion that the "minor detail that it works" is simply wrong. The evidence, Dana Ullman notwithstanding, is extremely flimsy, and the wild implausibility of the claims puts the burden of proof very high.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
11:33 PM on 01/01/2012
"This is a particularly straightforward example of how like (when it is potentized, meaning highly diluted to the smallest possible dose) cures like: Venom cancels out venom."

Except that you didn't know whether this was caused by venom at all. The vet specifically told you that it could have been caused by a scratch.

"She prescribed a bucket full of different pills and ointments."

Could you be more specific? What qualifies as a "bucketful"? A typical vet would likely prescribe a single antibiotic (pill) along with a single topical ointment or eyedrops, usually some sort of corticosterone to reduce the inflammation. So, what specifically did the vet prescribe? It sounds like you are likely exaggerating.
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08:09 AM on 01/02/2012
"It sounds like you are likely exaggerati­ng. "

this is the same person who wrote:

"I had one patient on 27 medications because she had been diagnosed depressed"

so it is highly likely
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
11:04 AM on 01/02/2012
I missed that line. Definitely makes it more likely!
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
07:38 PM on 01/03/2012
There are only about 3 classes of pharmaceutical antidepressants in current use. I have never seen anyone on more than 2 antidepressants at any one time.
What these "27" medications might be, god only knows, but they weren't from pharma.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
07:48 AM on 01/05/2012
potentisation = serial dilution + succussion
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
09:00 AM on 01/05/2012
And what does that have to do with what I wrote? Nothing, as per usual.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
11:24 PM on 01/01/2012
"Homeopathy is very hard to repeat experimentally precisely because of the way it works: Individually."

Not at all. It would be very simple to derive an individualized treatment protocol that is properly blinded and controlled.

1. Patient comes to office and is evaluated by homeopath #1.
2. Homeopath #1 prescribes INDIVIDUALIZED remedy.
3. Homeopath #2 who does not evaluate patient or interact with homeopath #1 dispenses either the prescribed remedy or a placebo.
4. Homeopath #1, or any even better control of homeopath #3, evaluates the patient subsequently using both objective and subjective measurements.
5. Results are collated and unblinded and we see that homeopathy is no better than placebo.

So, in 2 minutes I managed to come up with a properly controlled trial design that ZERO homeopaths, many of who claim to be doing scientific research, have managed to do to evaluate the efficacy of their treatments. Perhaps homeopaths really aren't interested in actually testing their treatments.
11:51 PM on 01/01/2012
In fact the meta-analysis by Cucherat et al. (2000), Evidence of clinical efficacy of homeopathy – A meta-analysis of clinical trials. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 2000; 56: 27–33, which homeopaths consider to be one of the meta-analyses that homeopaths like concurred in their conclusion and wrote:

"It is clear that the strength of available
evidence is insufficient to conclude that
homeopathy is clinically effective; however,
homeopathy can and should be assessed
using the same methodology used for allopathy."

Note also that their conclusion is inconsistent with the claim by homeopaths that the study supports their claims that homeopathy works. However, as we have both seen, homeopaths never let facts get in the way of parting marks from their money.
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ChristyRed
11:26 PM on 01/02/2012
Anyone who is interested in what the Cucherat, M., et al., meta-a really says will find it at:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10853874

Since this meta-a was conducted 13 years ago -- in 1998 -- there have been hundreds more studies done on homeopathy. As HolisticDoc noted, positive trials outnumber negative ones by 6 to 1. It's reasonable to think that a meta-a done today would also be positive and also more definitive.
04:25 PM on 01/01/2012
"See yourself as a being of a million small crystals, each one with a frequency." Why not see yourself as being a million invisible bananas or a millions green centipedes - they would be equally pointless analogies
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maslin
At 6 bn km, it's mostly small stuff.
11:09 PM on 01/01/2012
But 'crystals' sounds both more science-y and more New Agey at the same time, especially when you start talking about frequencies.

'I am composed of millions of invisible bananas' might not be a statement that gets you taken seriously, which is presumably the goal here.
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cable1977
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
11:25 PM on 01/01/2012
Unless this was Planet of the Apes....then it might get you taken seriously.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
02:06 PM on 01/03/2012
Eureka! All is vibrations. Therefore, sound therapy must surely be the cure!!!!! After all, sound is also vibrations, so all we need to do is figure out the right pattern of soundwaves and we will cure everything ever!!!11!!
02:58 PM on 01/01/2012
For those who say that belief in homeopathy is harmless. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/28/homeopathy-baby-death-couple-jailed
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
03:15 PM on 01/01/2012
You may have lit the blue touch-paper!
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ChristyRed
04:05 PM on 01/01/2012
Two studies show that homeopathy is as effective as conventional medicine in the treatment of children with eczema. The difference is that homeopathy causes no iatrogenic diseases or other "side effects" whereas conventional topical eczema creams are associated with skin cancer and lymphoma.

This study by Claudia Witt (one of Europe's most respected researchers), et al., followed children for two years. It found that when homeopathy was added to their treatment program they were able to reduce the amount of conventional drugs they used. It also showed that the severity of their eczema improved and that the changes in severity assessment were of large effect size.

Published in the peer-reviewed Acta Dermato Venereol, 2009: 89(2); 182 - 183

This comparative cohort study of homeopathy and conventional medicine shows homeopathy to be as effective as conventional medicine. In fact, physician scores for eczema signs and symptoms indicated significant improvement in the homeopathy group.

Keil, T., et al., Complementary Therapies in Medicine, 2008

It must be remembered that no traditional doctor would guarantee recovery from eczema by using conventional drugs since it has been proven many times that curing eczema is difficult and can never be guaranteed.

This couple saw practitioners in a variety of modalities including conventional. They chose a system of medicine which is equally effective but without those risks. And for this they were convicted! Shame!

And shame on you for using this couple's loss to portray homeopathy as ineffective.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
05:25 PM on 01/01/2012
Most respected by whom? All that particular Acta study shows is that over 2 years, people weren't using as many conventional medications. There is no information as to why this was. Further, if as you say conventional treatments don't do much, no wonder that they would drop them in favor of alcohol-laced sugar water.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
09:07 AM on 01/01/2012
The case: arsenic poisoning.

You have very little time to act. What do you do?

Do you administer homeopathic arsenic, which somehow would magically correct the body's symptoms without doing a thing to the agent of those symptoms.

Or do you administer a heavy metal ion chelating agent, which will chemically bind up the arsenic and allow its safe removal from the body?
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
01:01 PM on 01/01/2012
Christy's comment has been removed for some reason. She cited two studies she claims alleviated arsenic poisoning over some period of time. As you might expect, the studies were published in fringe journals, the results were especially weak and made claims unsupported by their evidence. Especially considering no one was 'cured', which chelators can do much better.
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ChristyRed
02:02 PM on 01/01/2012
Taking advantage again of the fact that my comment hasn't been posted?

Here they are:

"Can homeopathic arsenic remedy combat arsenic poisoning in humans exposed to groundwater arsenic contamination"

The study shows that the answer is clearly "yes". It provides photographs as well as the full gamut of clinical data proving the positive results of homeopathic treatment. These people were extremely sick. It's wonderful that homeopathy was able to help them so effectively and quickly.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297497/

"An initial report on the efficacy of a millesimal potency of Arsencium album LM 0/3 in ameliorating arsenic toxicity in humans living in a high-risk arsenic village"

Again, the answer is "yes", homeopathy works. And this supports the findings of the initial project.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21669162
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
10:27 AM on 01/05/2012
Arsenicum Album for arsenic toxicity

The Science of the total Environment (Elseiver)
Arsenicum Album 30C for arsenic toxicity: Evidence-based findings (2007)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17628642

Evidence-based Complimentary & Alternative Medicine (Hindawi)

Arsenicum album 30C and 200 C alters antinuclear antibody (ANA) titre in people living in high-risk arsenic contaminated areas (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1375236/ // correction of arsenic-induced haematological changes such as total count of RBC, WBC, PCV, Hb, ESR and blood sugar level
06:58 AM on 01/01/2012
There have been several references to Arnica. This label on a bottle of water is supposed to treat bruising.

According to the way that materials are tested in homeopathy, if something causes symptoms in healthy people, then you can wash away that material until nothing is left and then use the water to treat people who have that particular symptom.

So I have twice asked if Arnica causes bruising in healthy people. Twice I have received no answer but ChristyRed told me to look it up myself.

So what did I find?

Well, actually, less than zilch. I find no ref to Arnica causing bruising, which I must admit I expected. Homeopaths have just jumped on the bandwagon to flog the name, knowing that people do associate it with bruising. The 'less than' bit comes from there seems to be little evidence that Arnica does very much even if you don't wash it away.
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ChristyRed
10:05 AM on 01/01/2012
Arnica in its original form and in overdose will cause bruising. Homeopathic Arnica will resolve bruising.

A little more time with the books.......
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
12:18 PM on 01/01/2012
reference?
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
03:01 PM on 01/01/2012
"Arnica in its original form and in overdose will cause bruising"
You asserted that it does cause bruising. Ypu back it up!
All these people who buy undiluted (not homoeopathic) arnica over the counter need to know!
citation please! :P
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ChristyRed
04:53 PM on 01/01/2012
Here's another randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study showing homeopathic arnica reduces swelling and bruising in plastic surgery:

Patients who had extensive, deep-level facelifts were given placebo or verum. The patients who received Arnica had 11% to 41% less bruising and swelling than those who received placebo.

Patients who had liposuction were given placebo or verum. Those who received Arnica were judged by independent surgeons to have less swelling and bruising than those who received placebo.

Arch Facial Plastic Surgery, 1-2/06

www.peacefulmountain.com/test-results/arnicas_efficacy.php
06:42 PM on 01/01/2012
Apart from the complete lack of results to enable any analysis of the study, there is something that puzzles me.

Where is the p value? Could it be that not even applying cosmetics to the results could it be made statistically significant?
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
10:31 AM on 01/05/2012
The link to arnica use in facial plastic surgery is http://archfaci.ama-assn.org/content/8/1/54.long
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
02:04 PM on 12/31/2011
About time someone posted this link:

http://www­.youtube.c­om/watch?v­=HMGIbOGu8­q0

For North Americans A&E =ER
01:46 PM on 12/31/2011
Great article, Judith.

It is true homeopathy is difficult to replicate in trials, but not impossible. It does take very sophisticated researchers.

The body of basic science data is in fact, quite strong and shows almost conclusively that homeopathic remedies have biological effects - even if we don't fully

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17544864

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19945674

Randomized clinical trial data is also strong, but more spotty, primarily because a number of researchers with no understanding of homeopathy attempt trials, which invariably fail - however, these trials are not reflective of homeopathy, but rather someone's misguided attempt to assess the medicine. The other issue is that many trials have insufficient statistical power (primarily due to lack of funding for the research and resultant small cohort sizes). Therefore, about half of all homeopathic RCT's are inconclusive - again, no reflection on homeopathy, but rather the lack of sufficient resources for research. Having said that, of trials with sufficient statistical power to draw conclusions, studies with positive results outnumber negative by 6 to 1.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
02:10 PM on 12/31/2011
Even if there are biological effects of high dilutions--I'd be willing to allow that as an off-chance possibility--there is very little chance that it would operate the way homeopaths are practicing it.
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Victoria-nola
There is no way to peace; peace is the way.--Muste
01:58 AM on 01/01/2012
It's absurd to make that statement when the fact is that homeopathy works. Just ask my cats and my dog. And my chickens.
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DakkonA
www.DisentangledReality.com
02:12 PM on 12/31/2011
Note also that the effects being reported in the two linked studies are reporting the same effects, if at a lower scale, as the original unpotentiated substance. So please try to explain why homeopathic preparations somehow only have positive effects, no side effects, and no overdose is possible?
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ChristyRed
03:29 PM on 12/31/2011
That is an insincere question.I know from your attendance in the comments section to many blogs on homeopathy that you've read many times the explanation of why homeopathy has no side effects, creates no iatrogenic diseases, is non-addictive and is not capable of creating life-threatening events.

However, to answer the question for people who may be unfamiliar with homeopathy, it is because homeopathics do not contain material doses of the original substance. That is what makes them safe.