African Americans vs Gay Americans?

You'd think there were enough equal rights to go around!

Today could have been a truly great day of celebration for me. Like so many people in America, my heart too could be bursting with the joy and pride of seeing my country finally rise to its own great occasion: that moment in history that fear mongers have tried to keep us from knowing for so long. We are all different, yes, but more than that, we are all the same. And by accepting each other, we are both inspirational and unbeatable.

I am not African-American, but I have written hit songs for many black recording stars (Cheryl Lynn, Pebbles, The Fifth Dimension, Lenny Williams-Tower of Power, Robin S., etc.). I'm not African-American but I co-created and edited the first national black teen magazine, "Right On!," which is still in existence today. I am not African-American, but I marched and protested my way through the 60s to help make an angry divided America see the insanity of forcing human beings with a different skin color to live lives that were less equal than their own.

So why don't I feel triumphant today?

I am a gay woman who married her partner of 20 years in California last August 24th. According to the count on Proposition 8 (changing the constitution in California so that marriage can only be between a man and a woman), the Yes's have won (52% to 47%). My marriage is no longer legal. The happiness I shared on my wedding day with the woman I've loved for so long and the family and friends who we love and love us, is potentially, "officially" wiped out. And even if ensuing court struggles result in my marriage remaining legal, what about all the other gay couples who want to get married? Some of us can be married and the rest of us can't? That's going to go well, don't you think?

What's worse is why Proposition 8 and other gay initiatives have gone sour in various states during Tuesday's election. It's been (correctly) noted that the tremendous African-American voter turnout for Barack Obama was a death rattle for any of the equal-rights gay Americans had at stake. How on earth could this be true?

You would think that African-Americans would understand this to the core. Even though I do not personally believe that Barack Obama's stance against gay marriage is unmovable (in fact, a Los Angeles Times op-ed piece said he was actually against Prop 8), I do stand amazed and defeated in front of my television as I watch black church-goer after church-goer break from his or her high-energy celebration to explain how marriage is for a man and a woman--not for two men or two women. Some even mention those other things gays can have instead (domestic partnerships).

Why doesn't it occur to them that this is like separate drinking fountains? It reminds me of Colin Powell standing with other military men, advising then President Clinton against Gays in the Military because of how uncomfortable all the other non-gay soldiers would be. (The showers! The showers!)

Now we all know how really smart Colin Powell is and how oppressed he was under President Bush. So how could he have had amnesia about the horrible struggle blacks went through--fighting in separate army units from their "white brothers"--to get integrated into the military? Why then could he go on and do the same thing to good, strong, gay brothers and sisters who only wanted to serve their country?

So dismayed was I in the lack of support from the very people I had devoted my support to, I actually took this issue head on back in 1991 in an interview I did with Jesse Jackson when I was the editor of Genre magazine. (Yes, a girl was the editor of Genre.) I admit Jesse (who was so incredibly moving last night during President elect Obama's speech), has, hopefully, come a long way on gay equal-rights issues since our 17-year-old interview. But at that time he told me "Don't compare your struggle to ours... you can hide." He was referring to skin color being something that left blacks vulnerable to prejudice at all times. Well, yes, I ventured, "but there's a lot of damage that comes from hiding." That got him. He could see a downside to hiding too. But his discomfort at gays taking a page from the civil rights movement--even if he was talking to someone who had invested her own blood, sweat, and tears in that same movement--was palatable.

And now Jesse Jackson and I have a new President. And if the votes had been just a little bit different on California's Proposition 8 to eliminate gay marriage, I could have been as happy as Jesse. But I'm still unequal in this country. And it looks like my situation isn't going to change unless I can change the minds of people like Jesse who voted for Barack Obama and are now dancing and crying and blessing America.

So it looks like I still have a lot of work left to do, a lot of marching and protesting--even though I did that already for others who are not doing the same for me. I guess it's one prejudice at a time. But I don't get it. I expect more from human beings. Why does each lesson have to be learned as if it was brand new? Shouldn't history resonate? Telling someone, "I can get married, but you can not!" should sound familiar--especially to people who have heard such things themselves and not that long ago. Mixed marriages were illegal until the courts said otherwise. So the irony of electing this marvelous president, who is himself the child of just such a marriage, while making illegal another kind of marriage in the same election--is unfathomable.

But, ok, once my own sadness and disappointment settles in, I will let go and celebrate the true wonder of President Barack Obama! After all, I spent years helping to clear the way for this hard-won triumph of the Age of Aquarius.

Read more reaction from HuffPost bloggers to Barack Obama's victory in the 2008 presidential election

Comments

[GregJL]

"So it looks like I still have a lot of work left to do, a lot of marching and protesting--even though I did that already for others who are not doing the same for me. "

Is that why you did it? So they would do it for you?

[CEKChuck]

""Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[doctoradder]

"No on 8" started with a huge advantage in public opinion -- leading by 17 points in mid-September. But our opponents on this issue out-spent, out-campaigned and out-argued us.

They complained that an "activist court" had "subverted" "the will of the people" by overturning the previous marriage ban, Prop 22.

They ably punched the fear button -- arguing convincingly, if disingenuously, that Proposition 8 would forever change the way that their schools were run and even the way their religious charities operated.

They argued that Prop 8 was a sinister law that would allow the "gay agenda" to become mainstream -- "teaching homosexuality" to their children. They dishonestly suggested that passing 8 wouldn't really hurt anyone.

They claimed it was NOT an attack on gay couples. It maintained the familiar status quo; it didn't prevent gays from claiming the rights guaranteed by the state's domestic partnership laws; and besides, many gays weren't in favor of gay marriage anyway. (Really? I've yet to encounter any of these pro-8 gays, but apparently, they're out there.)

Most of all, they argued that Proposition 8 would somehow, mysteriously, "protect marriage."

At the end of the day, they subtly and successfully played on latent fears and ably coaxed voters into thinking that it was okay to vote yes on Prop 8... that it really wouldn't harm anyone.

In a matter of weeks, they managed to flip support of the bill completely around.

[doctoradder]

The current situation is intolerable... and the intolerance of Proposition 8 cannot stand. But the finger-pointing has to stop.

It's easy to blame African Americans, who voted more strongly in favor of 8 than many other ethnic groups.

It's easy to blame the Church of Latter Day Saints, a.k.a. "the Mormons," which donated to "Yes on 8" campaigns and encouraged their membership to support the movement.

It's easy to blame the flawed California ballot proposition system, which allows a simple majority to permanently alter the state constitution -- when such an amendment would require a 2/3 vote if it went through the legislature.

It's easy to blame Barack Obama for his nuanced position on gay marriage which allowed "Yes on 8" campaigners to quote Obama's words out of context, implying that he supported Prop 8. (He does not, as his campaign made clear on numerous occasions: the official position is that he supports civil unions, yet opposes measures like 8 which threaten civil rights already established for citizens of a given state.)

But at the end of the day, there's nobody to blame but ourselves.

[doctoradder]

"No on 8" started with a huge advantage in public opinion -- leading by 17 points in mid-September. But our opponents on this issue out-spent, out-campaigned and out-argued us.

They complained that an "activist court" had "subverted" "the will of the people" by overturning the previous marriage ban, Prop 22.

They ably punched the fear button -- arguing convincingly, if disingenuously, that Proposition 8 would forever change the way that their schools were run and even the way their religious charities operated.

They argued that Prop 8 was a sinister law that would allow the "gay agenda" to become mainstream -- "teaching homosexuality" to their children. They dishonestly suggested that passing 8 wouldn't really hurt anyone.

They claimed it was NOT an attack on gay couples. It maintained the familiar status quo; it didn't prevent gays from claiming the rights guaranteed by the state's domestic partnership laws; and besides, many gays weren't in favor of gay marriage anyway. (Really? I've yet to encounter any of these pro-8 gays, but apparently, they're out there.)

Most of all, they argued that Proposition 8 would somehow, mysteriously, "protect marriage."

At the end of the day, they subtly and successfully played on latent fears and ably coaxed voters into thinking that it was okay to vote yes on Prop 8... that it really wouldn't harm anyone.

In a matter of weeks, they managed to flip support of the bill completely around.

[doctoradder]

It's easy to respond with wrath to this subtle campaign of intolerance and misunderstanding. But I think that's the wrong approach.

Attacking Mormon temples and pointing fingers is fighting intolerance with intolerance. When the sad truth is... these people just don't get it.

They don't get that this is the Civil Rights struggle of the modern era.

They don't get why Prop 22 failed. They don't understand that a conservative, Republican dominated court (not an "activist" court) overturned Prop 22 based on the precedent of the landmark 1948 case that broke the back of so-called "miscegenation" laws that banned "mixed marriage."

They don't get that intolerance of gays is the moral equivalent of racism.

They don't get that this conservative court has already elevated sexual orientation to the same status as gender and race.

They don't get that passing this law, they're telling their friends and family, people they may not realize are gay, that their hearts aren't truly human.

They don't get that they're hurting real people with real emotions whose lives are being thrown into turmoil and confusion by this decision.

We -- everybody who does get it, gay or straight, Christian or irreligious, Democrat or Republican, black or white -- we somehow failed to get this across when it mattered most.

This is not a fight of anger. It's not a case of Us against Them. It's a case of making "them" realize they are "us" and that love is the same in all hearts.

[SarahElise]

It seems as though everyone has gone off on their own tangents. When reading the article carefully one will realize that Judy is not blaming the African American community for the passage of Prop 8. The baseline of what she is saying is that anyone who has experienced discrimination should be more aware of discrimination against others and therefore fight against it. My feeling is that Judy wrote this solely on the fact that she was surprised and disappointed. People who have experienced any sort of discrimination know and understand the unpleasant experiences people of the minority can go through.

Think about it¦ when you are being discriminated against for something you have zero control over, you think to yourself "Why? This isn"t fair. Everyone should be treated equally and given the same rights". Everyone just wants to be treated with respect and given the same legal rights as the rest of society. With this said, I believe Judy was only comparing the African American community to the Gay community because they are two separate groups of people who have experienced discrimination. Everyone should be fighting for the same thing: eliminating discrimination in our country.

Again, I don"t think Judy was blaming the African American community. She was only stating her disappointment in a community, which she thought she shared similar fight with (people fighting for equal rights).

[FJRinLA]

RACIST & INFLAMMATORY STILL

It was polarizing and ignorant to single out Black people and justapose "Gays vs African-Americans",,,although she may be just holding up a mirror to what was already out there, it didn't help.

It also ignores the reality in states like FL & CA where Blacks are much less than 10% of the voters and Latinos are much more than 30%.

MEMO TO GAYS:
Progressive Blacks and Latino are still predominately CHRISTIAN: PROTESTANT and CATHOLIC, respectively with good levels of EVANGELICALS among both. They always have and they likely always will be. That is the issue and the gap that needs to be bridged. She needs to call on Bill Maher, not Jesse Jackson.

The whole piece is just very self-serving and offensive to most Black people. Listen, she acted in her own self interest as white people (and most people) always do when it comes to progressive politics. During this election, all our interests were aligned given the behavior of REPS....let's just be happy about that without the recriminations.

I.E. Lincoln started the Civil War in 1861 to keep southern states from declaring their independence. He spun it to be about slavery by signing the Emancipation Proclamation to free all slaves effective January 1, 1863, which in practice freed no one until Lee surrendered in 1865. So like George Bush, he went in for the WMD and made it about democracy later to suit his political agenda,,,just like Judy, so she's in good company.

[antaeus]

"Racist"? Have you considered that the greatest victims of Prop. 8 are black gays and lesbians themselves? I understand that large portions of African-American culture overvalue narrow, hyper-masculine models of behavior, and that this dynamic makes African-American culture especially unreceptive to flexible gender roles. Of course, it also makes life even tougher for black gays. Now that the sociological primer is over, can we get back to calling bigotry what it is?

Time for change. No excuses. Bigotry is bigotry.

[uheardme]

I agree with you. They lost my support.

[gsgweb]

There is racism and homophobia on both sides. But there's way more homophobia in the black community than there is racism in the gay community. Somebody mentions that fact and suddenly she's "offensive"?? Give me a break. It's the truth. Deal with it. Instead of attacking each other, let's direct our rage at people like Donnie McClurkin and others like him black, brown and white.

[tvguy526]

And another quick note, those who were against Prop. 8 - I never saw them in black communities. If you want people to see things your way, you have to talk to them. And also, the ads were not that good. Not a good idea to compare the marriage issue to racism. That will turn off people as well. Trying to legalize gay marriage is a new phenomena for many people and in time, I know they will come around, especially older Christian black people.

Anyway, I really want this to pass. I couldn't sleep the night the Prop won. Everyone deserves the right to be married to the one they love. But I think there has to be careful language what is said in the meantime and you really should put your efforts against the Mormons, who I feel are pitting every group against each other because of this issue.

[tvguy526]

I am saddened by the passing of Prop. 8, but we have to be clear here. Blacks make up 6% of the state's population, and all blacks didn't vote. But yes, 69% of those who did voted for the Prop. But whites and hispanics make up the majority of this state, so if you want to break it down in pure numbers, those groups voted more for the passage of Prop. 8 because they make a larger percentage of the electorate. So there's blame to go around for all groups and I think it's disingenious and offensive to single out blacks. It doesn't help your cause, because it makes people like me reconsider whether I want to wholeheartedly support your cause. Some of my minority friends who are gay talk about the racism within the gay community. That needs to be addressed also.

A lot of older blacks have been taught by churches the homosexuality is a sin. They don't hate the person, just the 'sin' in their eyes. But the church needs to stop preaching this. I'd like to see the proposition pass eventually, but I think we have to be careful about our language in the meantime. If there's too much offensive talk, then I think gay people will hurt their cause.

[gsgweb]

Yes, thanks for reminding me we only deserve rights if we're nice.

[chaya]

I am broken-hearted as well and find it more difficult to celebrate this historic election. Yes, I am elated that Barack won. But I am wounded by the many who voted to enshrine permanent bigotry into their constitutions. I am well aware that we may lay this tragedy at the feet of the black people who voted it in. But I'm not ready to be angry at black people. They vote this way because 1) they have a strong cultural aversion to homosexuality, going so far as to deny the very existence of their own gay brothers and sisters; and 2) extremely high numbers of them belong to very radical, fundamentalist Christian churches that have picked up hatred of gays from the New Testament. The same, by the way, may be said of many (not all) Hispanics. And we must add that for every black Christian who voted for Proposition 8, there were probably 9 white Christians who did.

So the lesson is only that we are all human, and nearly all bigoted in some way. I doubt that blacks would vote for laws helping Asians, either, or Hispanics. But I'm not ready to be angry at them, because they are becoming a kinder and wiser people, while American white people (my own race) are proudly regressing back to the Middle Ages. Like whites, blacks are vulnerable to seeing those outside their experience as being "other." Unlike whites, though, they are good at learning new things.

[lord corleon]

Chaya -

The thing about a tragedy is that there usually is plenty of it to lay around. While you're laying it on the black voters, don't forget to include Catholics, Jews, Asians (Asian Heritage Council endorsed the measure) , Mormons, Republicans (McCain supported the proposal, Obama did not), Evangelicals... While you're at it blame the people who created the bill and the sponsors and advertisers that promoted it, and blame those of us who didn't do enough to challenge it (Many of us, myself included fall in that group). This is an American failing, an American tragedy.

Blacks are human, so are whites and other people. In addition we are individuals. Not all blacks buy into the radical Christian junk ( I don't), neither are all whites racist nor all Arabs Wahhabists. I used to let the fringe define the average. I'm learning that is wrong.

[chaya]

I'm sorry you took my words as blaming blacks. If you read about Prop 8 and why it passed, you will see that it is likely that fundamentalist Christian blacks did seal this deal. I did not, however, seek to blame them. I thought I made that clear. The discrimination was invented by backwards, bigoted, pathetically ignorant white people. The blacks who voted for Prop 8 merely drank the Kool-Aid.

[firstfreeze]

Skin color is not a choice (I am sure this will get deleted by the moderators). There is no real debate in here, just blind obedience to an agenda.

[IrishDude]

Does this mean you think homosexuality is a choice? I don't know about you, but my heterosexuality is not a choice. You may be battling the "choice" to have sex with the same sex but I know I can't imagine a single scenerio that would lead to me wanting to kiss another man.

[CEKChuck]

Maybe you just haven't met the right guy :-)

[antaeus]

I have chosen to be with the same person for 19 years, since we met in college. I did not choose to be turned on by members of my own gender. Nor did my two half brothers (same father, different mothers, three different homes). I'd take a shot at the genetics argument with you, but you'd probably reply, "Genuh what?"

A decisive majority of African Americans chose to support Prop. 8, just as our insurance carrier refused us renter's insurance because we were "two unrelated persons occupying the same apartment." That was an especially comforting choice, especially when our building caught fire two years ago.

[chaya]

I have no choice. I find heterosexual sex seems revolting and immoral to me. Dirty, disgusting, and unnatural. That's not logical: it's just my gut feelings. I cannot possibly be who I am not.

Try for once in your life to put yourself in another's shoes: You are a heterosexual living in a homosexual world who is told you are straight by choice; churches try to "reprogram" you to have sex with men; parents and others try to force you to act and dress gay; gays scream obscenities at you, throw things at you, threaten you; Katrina and 9/11 were your fault; you are possessed by the devil; the public calls you a pervert; states enact constitutional amendments to keep you from marrying; honorable, upright, clean homosexual citizens deprive you of a voice, censoring your words from libraries and your presence from television. You are expected to hide who you are. You have straight acquaintances who have been beaten or killed for being straight, even though they tried to hide it. The majority of Americans are convinced you are a part of a massive, evil, secret agenda to destroy the moral fabric of America. Better break up with that girlfriend you love so much: your love is evil and perverse.

But I doubt you actually tried to imagine this. It's just too difficult for a person who tries to participate in politics based on his "gut instincts" instead of using his brain.

[antaeus]

As disheartening as this predicament is, it's also interesting to watch minorities find a few rips in their mantle of victimhood. If some of you are squirming just now, then maybe that's a good thing. During the primary much was made of backward, rural whites who wouldn't support Obama. There was little patience for some kind of sociological explanation as an excuse for their attitudes and behavior. Now blacks are being called out for their own ironic bigotry and backward attitudes, and the pleas form some of you for an historical perspective are striking the wrong tone.

It's time for change, not excuses.

[lord corleon]

Antaeus -

There is nothing ironic about some blacks having bigoted and backward views. Having a history of being oppressed does not confer sainthood or enlightenment upon a people. Otherwise Israel/Palestine, for instance wouldn't be an issue. Nor would there be racist women or gays who are misogynists. Bigotry knows no color, gender or any other socially-defined boundary. So there's no excuses there. Proposition 8 was kinda like a Rainbow coalition, one built from fear and ignorance. Whites as well as blacks and other races played a major role in the creation and support of this bill. This was not only a failing of the black community nor even of California (other states passed similar idiotic laws), but a failing of the nation.

And yeah, the media made much of the rural white voter with backwards views about Obama. The media likes to focus on things like that, just as they like to focus on hyperpromiscuous black gangbangers and athletes. But that doesn't change the fact that Obama had more support of whites than either Kerry or Gore and that support was crucial to his success. So much like Prop 8 was an American failure, Obama was an American success.

[db08]

Cleary you are hurt and angry but change goes both ways Antaeus. The excuse that black people or minorities wear the "mantle of victimhood" and are bigoted and backward (all of us?) does not cut it. You at least limited your criticism of whites to a specific group and not all whites. You might of noticed that it was not black people who called out these groups of whites. Many of us did the work we had to do to extend our hands to everyone who would listen and to find a common ground. We have been doing so since 1619. It is excruciatingly hard, painful, and, at times ,seemingly hopeless work. Stop using us as an excuse. The idea that we are somehow responsible for what happened in California is short sighted. You have too much at stake. If you can look past what you think you know about us, you will find that we are quite human and not a black wall at which you can dump your anger and hurt. You might even find some lessons in our experience.

[db08]

My profound happiness in Obama's election was tempered by the passing of Proposition 8. I am so sorry for my gay brothers and sisters of all cultures. It only confirms that we must still fight on.

If I may comment on Jackson: African Americans faced violence and death simply for our appearance...something we could not hide. We could not even protect our children from the violence and mistreatment ...social and economic injustice. In fact some of us might envy our gay brothers and sisters who could at least gain economic safety while in the closet and not face verbal and physical abuse, directly and indirectly. There are other complex reasons that cause African Americans to fear the gay community that have nothing to do with religion but is also born out of ignorance and weakness.
Nonetheless, you are absolutely right about the impact of hiding. As an African American woman, I know very well that hiding leaves scar tissue...read DuBois' Souls of Black Folks about double consciousness and the veil. While we could not hide our appearance, we did hid our feelings about how we were/are being treated....that scar tissue can build to self-hatred and intraracisim. We do not want that for anyone.

I am disappointed as you are Yet, be careful of assumptions that the experience of injustice somehow makes one noble. It does not. There is common ground for us to work with for every black family has gay members who they love.

[antaeus]

" . . . not face verbal and physical abuse, directly and indirectly."

Last night I marched with a thousand people, closing Santa Monica Blvd. in my hometown of West Hollywood, CA.

I would not have made that same walk, at that same hour, on another night. Gay men have been targets of violence in this supposed haven at the hands of young Latino and African-American men who have driven into my neighborhood for this sole purpose.

What you confused people really mean when you invoke the "safety of the closet" is, "Stay in the closet!"

[southsideirish]

"What you confused people really mean when you invoke the 'safety of the closet' is, 'Stay in the closet!'"--Antaeus, you're enraged. You have every right to be. I don't even come close to understanding what you're going through. But you're missing her intent. If you think she's misinformed about the violence you face in your neighborhood at night, that's legitimate. To accuse her of demanding you "stay in the closet", isn't. She's clearly on your side. I think most folks here are. What happened Nov 4th was reprehensible. But to win we have to stick together. If there's something we're missing, tell us. Still, let's remember, Barack wasn't voted in by merely African Americans. The same will be held true about throwing down the egregious violations of your civil liberties that took place two days ago. We'll need to work it out together. It will require education and decisive action. In the efforts to educate, however, we must understand even those of us with the best intentions may not know how best to approach the situation. So, let's keep that in mind, and reject the notion that when someone is unaware of something they're the enemy.

[Judy Wieder - Huffpost Blogger]

You are terrific. I understand what you are saying. And take great comfort in your reply.
Oddly enough, at the time, and as I said, it was many years ago, Jesse had not thought much about the particular struggle gays were going through as we wrestled with "coming out" in the early and mid-90s (a particularly big push then). And naturally, as the editor-in-chief of The Advocate, watching so many young and old people "coming out" and feeling free and healthy for the first time, I was primed to talk about the downside of being able "to hide" one's identity. And, as an aside, there are many gays (and I use that word to cover all non-straight people), who can't hide. We all laughed with a small ache in our hearts when George Michael (who hid for years) said, "There is no closet big enough for Boy George."

[db08]

Thank you Judy for your kind words. I truly hope that our communities can work together and I believe that the African American community will respond especially using the common ground of family.
However, we must approach each other with respect and understanding. I was worried when writing my post that I might offend. I simply was hoping that you would understand how some black folks feel when they themselves think they want to hide and not be black. We live iin a world where we get blamed for many things beyond our control from the housing crisis to the economy. We are a easy group to blame.

Having said that and as I said before, we must continue the fight. Know that many African Americans, if you call us, have your back.

[southsideirish]

Perhaps we need to take a measured approach. I was just thinking about this with what I'd written earlier. Perhaps... (and I'm sure this is already being done with most gay and lesbian couples) we should combine, in a systematic and definitive campaign, the legal civil unions with gay friendly church religious ceremonies. What I'm thinking is almost along the lines of an organized nationwide protest whereby gay & lesbian couples essentially ignore (but not ignore) the Prop 8 Constitutional violation. I'm not implying capitulation, what I'm saying is something so expansive that gay friendly churches are literally flooded with ceremonies that take place on the same day as civil unions and large receptions in an effort to mock and thereby nullify the ban. The idea is to make the notion of Prop Hate so ridiculous and silly, that it comes off exactly as it is. It would have to be sans venom (I know. I want to be angry too. But if culture wars have taught us anything, it's that both sides lose. I'm looking for a win here.) If people see these weddings happening with a large media drive behind it, despite their petty legislation, maybe they'll begin to see why they were wrong.

[Glenn1441]

Many elements factored into the passing of Prop. 8, and the African-American vote should not be singled out as a primary cause.

I am a gay man and for the most part agree with Weider's remarks. Sadly, the reality is that one should never expect one oppressed group to support another. Let us not forget the remarks of one high ranking Rabbi in the UK, concerning the 'discovery' of the 'gay gene...' He was thrilled, since the means to utterly destroy the abomination that is the homosexual was closer at hand. To boot, the rabbi is indeed a survivor of the Holocaust, yet was all to happy to propose another.

I strongly suggest that all readers and contributors to this post check out Paul Hogarth's excellent Huff post regarding his own, intimate involvement with Prop. 8 -- and his well informed take on why it did not pass.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-hogarth/why-we-lost-prop-8-when-r_b_141390.html

[Dannelle]

Thank You Glenn1441. I find this helpful. Take Care, ok?
Dannelle

[antaeus]

Over 70% of African Americans in California voted for Prop. Hate.

All of you who bristle at comparisons between the civil rights movement (which, if we're going to limit it to racial equity, we should just call the racial equality movement) and the fight for gay rights are being disingenuousness. "Equivalent" is not the same as "analogous." Nobody is confused about the differences between the fight of blacks and the fight of women and the fight of gays. Sadly, there is now also a clear lack of confusion as to just how unwilling African Americans are to seek any common ground with their gay brethren. This isn't about "equating" gay rights with civil rights. This is about blacks hating gays.

[Dannelle]

Dear Antaeus,

I agree with you, equivalence is not the same as analogous. It's like saying that being hung is worse than being stabbed to death. I accept this point.

The reason why I wanted to respond to this blog (this is the FIRST time I have responded to any blog, even though I have been just as moved by other blogs), is that as you stated, 70% of African Americans in CA voted with their fear on this, Prop. Hate.

So, I feel so compelled to speak out, as I am African American, and to those blacks who voted on this out of the VERY SAME FEAR (that which they did not understand) that we saw in those Palin rallies where people were yelling hateful things about Obama.

Dearest Antaeus, please know that I FULLY SUPPORT you and EVERY man and woman the RIGHT to marry whomever you please. I ask you to continue to help others to understand why this is so important to the rights of EVERYONE, and I WILL DO THE SAME.

[antaeus]

Thanks for your support! Tell your friends and family.

[Dannelle]

WHAT HAVE WE and WHAT WILL WE LEARN from the election of President Obama?

I am a black woman living in McKinney, Texas, married to a white man.

Look closely and listen carefully for the TRUE INTENT of those with whom you DISAGREE. I don't believe that this lady is saying her involvement in the lives and culture of African Americans means that she equivocates the history of blacks with the history of gays and lesbians. I DO believe that she is saying that anyone who has experienced discrimination should be more aware of discrimination against others and fight against it.

MY HOPE regarding this issue:

Now that we see the response within the gay and lesbian communities to what was a thoughtless and fearful choice to ban gay marriage, I hope that AFRICAN AMERICANS will recognize that discrimation comes in many different forms, we are ALL SUCCEPTIBLE TO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST OTHERS if we don't take the time to understand the viewpoints of those who with whom we do not agree, and to challenge our own assumptions

(REMEMBER - WHITE churches used to teach both WHITE and BLACK congregations that SLAVERY was justified, using STORIES FROM THE BIBLE as justification - could it be POSSIBLE that what we are teaching within BLACK CHURCHES regarding homosexuality MAY BE WRONG??)

LET'S GET THIS RIGHT, AMERICA!!!!!!!! IT's GONNA TAKE US ALL!!!!!!!

[Glenn1441]

Well done. Thank you. Discrimination is an abomination, regardless of those to which it is applied. Tweezing out discrepancies between the struggles of one group versus another is outrageous, and only serves to justify discrimination.

As a gay man, I thank you for that post.

[chaya]

Thank you, Dannelle. How comforting your words are. You rock.