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Karen Torjesen

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Christianity and Homosexuality: Conversations in Africa

Posted: 07/07/2012 9:38 am

The night I landed in Botswana there was a dinner party. Such good luck! A lively, warm gathering of Africans from Zimbabwe, Togo, Kenya, Zambia and Botswana -- university professors of theology, Pentecostal pastors, and NGO workers dealing with HIV and AIDS. Good conversation, great Botswana beef and South African wine.

I don't remember when the conversation turned to the issue of homosexuality, but I was deeply impressed with how it was conducted. The issues here run parallel to their history in the U.S. Homosexuality is still illegal in most countries of southern Africa, though South Africa decriminalized it in 1998. In the U.S. the process of decriminalization began 1983 with Wisconsin and in 2003 a Supreme Court decision effectively decriminalized male homosexuality for the nation.

In the U.S. the cultural notion of homosexuality as deviant was justified scientifically when the American psychiatric profession designated it a mental illness (a position they reversed in 1973). In Africa where kinship systems create the social order and tradition has greater authority than law, same sex relations are condemned "because they are not our tradition."

However, the more powerful justifications are religious, both in the U.S. and in southern Africa. Soon after the discussion began out came the Bibles and the pastors started preaching. One of the women read Romans 1:25-27 aloud -- off a Kindle, the NIV version:

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

The Africans around the table asked these questions: What do we know about humanity? What does our human knowledge teach us? Is homosexuality a part of human nature? As they pondered, some volunteered their own struggles with the question.

One woman told the story of a deaf boy, raised by his grandmother. As a young man he discovered he was aroused by men. "How did he learn that? Where did he learn it? He was cut off from the community of men by his deafness. Is it simply part of how he was created?" she pondered.

One of the men, a Zambian, told this story: the first Zambian President, Kenneth Kaunda, the father of the nation, built the new state, gave it a solid foundation, promoted the welfare of the whole society and was widely admired, loved and respected for his contribution. Yet, when it was learned he had same-sex relations and promoted decriminalization of homosexuality, his legacy was erased. Did he become a different kind of person because he had same sex relations?

What is this human nature? How do we understand it within our respective cultures? What role does religion play in defining heterosexual or homosexual relations as "natural or unnatural?" Feminist biblical scholar Bernadette Brooten ("Love Between Women") asks what influenced Paul's notions of "natural and unnatural" sex.

In Paul's Greco-Roman cultural world sexual relations were important signifiers of social dominance. Sexual relations mirrored social relations -- a power differential between an active partner (penetrator) and a passive partner (penetrated). Whether between a male and female, or a master and a slave, or a man and boy, sexual dominance should correspond with social dominance. Sexual relations between women were unnatural because neither was superior to the other socially, both were culturally inferior; sexual relations between men of the same age or social class were unnatural because they undermined the social superiority of men.

Three centuries after Paul appealed to traditional Roman ideas on same-sex relations, Augustine worked out a Christian theology of sex that created a new cultural framework within which to understand same-sex relations. Augustine uses the creation to craft a new understanding of human nature with his doctrine of original sin as concupiscence. Because of the first sin of disobedience in the garden (rebellion against God's prohibition), God's punishment was the condition of concupiscence (lust), the rational mind is constantly beset by the rebellion of irrational sexual desiring. This sinful concupiscence, inherited by every human being, makes every sexual act inherently sinful, a manifestation of disordered desire. Paul's statement, "Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another" at this point is understood in terms of an original sinful, sexual human nature. Birth control, sex after menopause and homosexuality, are all sexual relations that cannot procreate and are therefore reduced to sinful, sexual excess. The idea of human nature as infected with original sin has provided a theological justification to the cultural notion that homosexuality is deviant for Christians in the West.

The differences of views on homosexuality were great between the Africans around the table. The tone was intense and thoughtful, but what surprised me was that the conversation was continually peppered with laughter. I've been in these conversations at home and they have been tense, polarized and polarizing. That didn't happen.

The position that many took was that they were in process; they were struggling with the question. Because they shared their own processing rather than their positions the conversation did not become a debate, there was more space. What I was witnessing was how a community works. First a volunteer facilitator asked speakers to speak from their own experience, from their heart, and second, everyone around the table was called on to express their views. The end was not a resolution of the question but a process of listening and speaking that kept the community together and kept the process open. All kinds of learning was happening around the table and some of it my own.

 
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Jason Michael Bird
Lizdexic Socialist... Sorry for the spelling
09:00 AM on 07/16/2012
Actually, South Africa decriminalised homosexuality in 1992. When the new, post Aparthied constitution was enacted in 1997, it went further than any other country in the world by making it illigal to discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation. South Africa has full Marriage Equality for Gays and Lesbians. Unfortunately, South African society as a whole is still very homophobic. However, we were lucky to have political leaders who after the horrors of Aparthied, had the foresight to make sure that all members of society would be guaranteed protection against discrimination in our wonderful constitution.

As for the Bible... Well it says a lot of things about a lot of stuff.. But I believe it's core messages are those of Love, Respect and Tolerance to your fellow man.

Unless you follow everything the Bibles says to the letter in your life (no pork, no mixed fibres, no haircuts, taking slaves, stoning disobedient to death etc) then I'm sorry to say, you haven't got a leg to stand on when you call Gay people "sinners". Simply put, anyone who tries to justify their hostility to Gay Rights on religious grounds are hypocrites, with a pick and mix attitude to the Bible.
11:27 PM on 07/12/2012
Doesn't the scripture state plainly what God did to the those who choose to reject His input via ones life ~ "He turned them over to do those things".

Thus, if God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore~ it should be obvious that God can give DAMN as to what a hindsight revisionist states, especially after the fact~ albeit a so called theologian of old or contemporary preacher of I'll day!
02:33 PM on 07/10/2012
The unnatural and unnatural is incorrect. Paul was stating on sexual intercourse such as one man one woman. It is natural because it reproduces children and the grand design was for that purpose. The unnatural use is to use the organs as they were not intended to be use. One starts a linage the other ends ones linage. One (unnatural) is an abomination in God's eyes the other (natural) is blessed from God. Christian believes in one God, and He reveals Himself in three persons, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. What one said they all said, what one said in the Old Testament all three said because they are one, One God. God will never contradict what He says, just as one of the three persons are the same and will not contradict one another.” the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another” any other person can understand what this means unless you are reprobated. Then understand God said marriage was between a man and a woman nothing else. That means any other sexual relations other then marriage is a sin.
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SayBlade
This micro bio intentionally left blank.
04:30 PM on 07/10/2012
So, each time a married couple have sex and do not produce a child, they must ask forgiveness. Once they have produced the number of children they believe God wants, then they stop having sex. Interesting.
06:03 PM on 07/10/2012
No you are tying to hard to make the statement say something it did not say, typical of this lifestyle. To make it easy for you that is the only natural way that God designed for humans, not drilling in someone’s dung. Marriage between a man and a woman is the only sexual way that God approves; any other would be fornication or adultery. There is no sin between a man and his wife having sex. Anything other is sin. Jesus describes marriage in Genesis 2:24 Old Testament and in Matthew 19:5 New Testament.
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Jason Michael Bird
Lizdexic Socialist... Sorry for the spelling
10:04 AM on 07/16/2012
Brova.. Well said!! I'm also impressed with your use of logic in your argument with Bethel7.  

Alas we both know it's pointless, but it is such FUN watching them squirm and jump through mental hoops to try justify their bigotry.

Here is a link to a great article by a Rabbi I think you would enjoy. He definitely nails in on the head when he says that anyone who use religion to justify their hostility to homosexuals has a (hypocritical) pick and mix attitude to the bible:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/05/31/rabbi-jonathan-romain-chastises-religious-opponents-of-equal-marriage/
07:49 PM on 07/10/2012
"God said marriage was between a man and a woman nothing else"

The first part is largely true, though less explicit, but "nothing else" is not even implied within the Bible.
09:54 PM on 07/09/2012
You're acting as if homosexuality is determined by genetics solely
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Sheldon archer
Facebook name is Yuyun Archer
12:00 AM on 07/09/2012
If there was a god who made humans, why would he give them fur and claws and an extended backbone which started off as a tail? If he was so worried about sex, why did he design girls to start menstruating, sometimes as early as nine years old and thus being ready to reproduce? If he designed sex for procreation only then why did he make it pleasurable? Would have been better to make it a chore that one had to put up with for the price of getting children. Animal evolution makes a lot more sense.
10:33 PM on 07/08/2012
"The differences of views on homosexuality were great between the Africans around the table. The tone was intense and thoughtful, but what surprised me was that the conversation was continually peppered with laughter. I've been in these conversations at home and they have been tense, polarized and polarizing. That didn't happen."

When I read commentary like this, I really wonder whether there were any gay people at the table. I, as a gay person in the U.S., find very few occasions serious (and mixed; meaning gay/straight) conversations about my own rights, dignity, and well-being to find any room for laughter. In the U.S. they are tense and often polarized and polarizing. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel as though the professor here is romanticizing "community" and over-valuing a certain lightness in these kinds of conversations. For my own part, I find it very difficult to engage in conversations where basic issues of humanity and fairness are actually being debated and the people there find it reasonable to be doing so. I realize this needs to go on, but perhaps instead of encouraging this kind of ethic across the board by comparing this environment to the more polarized or polarizing (and thereby judging the moral beliefs and foundations of large swaths of other people living in different places), perhaps a more thoughtful analysis of culture, context, and expectation sets are in order.
11:40 PM on 07/08/2012
I would also like to add this for people. I haven't read it, but I sure do like the topic a lot (maybe save the "capitalism" stuff, unless it's simply being used as a kind of archetype for a certain causal mechanism). Anyway -

"Against the Romance of Community" by Miranda Joseph
http://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/against-the-romance-of-community

More, more, more! I know it's really hard for many queers to be anti-social (it certainly makes me literally sick in trying...), but intellectualizing about the social is entirely different!
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LoganDC1
Bumper stickers never give enough detail
05:53 PM on 07/08/2012
This is all very nice and touchy-feely. I cannot help but read their questions about how they can square their religious and traditional views about homosexuality with the world they know around them in reality not so much as an attempt to get to an acceptance of homosexuality, but to find something else they can use to reject it because what they've already got isn't working.

I really don't care about how nice and polite they are to each other as they try to work through how to maintain their prejudices in the fact of reality.

Your attitude is also incredibly patronizing, by the way. If you hadn't been so surprised at how thoughtful and articulate they are, and how adorable that is, (They think! And they talk! And they reason! And they're polite! Wow!) you might have concluded that (guess what?) they're adult enough to handle your at least asking questions -- even if making arguments would have been counterproductive.

For example, "I know that American culture may seem radical, but that doesn't mean we do not value tradition. It's just that every tradition started for a reason that is more complex than 'just because,' and sometimes we find that the reasons no longer hold, or that the tradition is so old that people have forgotten why it was started in the first place. Could that possibly be one answer to your dilemma?"

Did you say anything during this exchange?
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Talossa
Liberal. Pro-Israel. Recovering atheist.
10:20 PM on 07/08/2012
Good grief. Please for once throw away the race card and listen for a change.
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LoganDC1
Bumper stickers never give enough detail
11:00 PM on 07/08/2012
I don't care what color of the rainbow you are and you have no idea how rare it is for me to "play the race card," nor do you know what my race is. And how would you know, since I don't think we've ever exchanged views on this (or anything else) before?

The author of this piece (I assume that she's you, but I don't know) was so awed that people in Africa have access to modern telecommunications equipment and are capable of holding a civil conversation on a controversial question involving the intersection of sexuality, the law, and tradition, that this animates the entire article. (And by the way, when tradition is, as she says, more important than law -- it is law. If she'd truly studied the various African systems of tribal and traditional law, she wouldn't have been surprised by the level of sophistication she observed.)

I was struck by the fact that the author was so amazed at the civilized coversation she overheard that it never occurred to her that these are grownups who could at least handle a question or two.

Even if she was in anthropological non-interference mode, at the point she realized that was listening to a group of people at a level of sophistication equal to her own, she could have interacted wtih them. Instead, she wrote an article belaboring the blindingly obvious.

Sometimes bias manifests itself, not in hatred, but in condescension. That, thankfully, can easily be outgrown.
10:37 PM on 07/08/2012
Exactly. This is a very big point that needs to be discussed in this country. Many well-meaning, law abiding, very intelligent gay people do not care about how nice and polite people are to each other as they work through prejudice, belief systems, etc. For me, it is difficult to stomach conversations where basic humanity is being debated. It's not so much the topic as much as it is the fact that others at the table find that kind of thing reasonable, and expect you to; hence, allowing the conversation to unfold in a collegial manner. I suppose in this particular context, that was the point. But this revolting expectation is ever present in our society and it needs to be seriously contested. One of the main problems is evident, for instance, in how people, and this professor, romanticize the notion of community and over-value collegiality. When people do not blow up when they feel the fire of injustice, it gives the appearance that the issues aren't as serious as they really are.
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LoganDC1
Bumper stickers never give enough detail
12:13 AM on 07/09/2012
Yes, but I have to say, in fairness, that I should have reviewed her academic writings before I mouthed off. I think I may have offended someone who is an ally, but I stand by my observations. I should have been a bit more diplomatic though -- her heart's clearly in the right place.

There is some value in her observations of how this conversation unfolded, but knowing the opportunity to interject some thought provoking ideas was available to her, and was missed, is frustrating because, let's face it, neither you nor I would be allowed in that room (or at least the conversation would not have unfolded the way it did if the participants knew we were there).

I work in civil rights and social justice and have for the last 25 years, sometimes on my own civil rights and most of the time on those of others (although I find that the different areas all dovetail together eventually anyway). If I could make a suggestion about the anger you feel, we're never going to win this without effective persuasion. If you want people to move from Point A to Point B, standing at Point B and yelling at them isn't nearly as effective as joining them at Point A and walking them in the right direction.

I'm frustrated because she as at Point A with them, and simply described the landscape. We can't use that. She could have moved them off the dime at least a little.
05:25 PM on 07/08/2012
Interesting story. There is also a great documentary about this on reelafrican.com
04:13 PM on 07/08/2012
Africa has been anti gay for 1000's of years prior to Christians. Quit blaming white Christians. That has failed.
11:14 PM on 07/08/2012
No, actually, according to various ethnologists, Africa had a wide variety of traditions relating to homosexuality and gender roles at the time of colonization. In some cases, transgenders and homosexuals were highly respected. Africa was certainly not as uniformly anti-gay as it is today.

By the way, no one can claim to know what African traditions were thousands of years ago. Anyone who claims to know is lacking in intellectual integrity or is ignorant.
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Erin Leader
Making the world beautiful one head at a time ;-)
01:25 PM on 07/08/2012
People will always use religion to justify their own prejudices because they can't use real world facts and concrete evidence to do it. They think that by saying that God's word commands them to hate their fellow human beings they wont have to take responsibility for the horrific consequences of their hatred.

The hateful and prejudice "Christians" have designed God in their own image, instead of the other way around. I always thought Jesus talked about love and tolerance of others. Actually, the only people he railed against were the Pharisees, and these modern day evangelicals more closely match them than Jesus.

I know that my creator made me gay and I know that I couldn't feel the intense love I feel for my partner without the Creator's blessing. These "Christians" don't follow any of the teachings of their namesake, nor do they use the critical thinking skills or the boundless capacity to love that God endowed them with. So what we have is a whole group of people completely run by hatred and fear. Hatred and fear, two things their own religion would tell them are the work of Satan. They don't get it though. They are arrogant, prideful and epically stupid, it's just a shame that so many innocent gay people and their families have to suffer at the hand of their epic stupidity.

I believe they know better, I believe their moral compass tells them they're wrong. I also believe they are so invested in their own
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Erin Leader
Making the world beautiful one head at a time ;-)
01:05 PM on 07/08/2012
People will always try to find a way to justify their own prejudices. When real world evidence and concrete facts make for a difficult justification they inevitably turn to religion. Nobody can really argue with the stance that "God said it, so I believe it".

Of course, that can be argued against but it can't be disproven. I usually say that I know God made me gay and I know it's ok because of the intense love I feel for my partner. I couldn't feel that type of pure love for someone unless my creator was a part of it. I don't believe in a hateful and vengeful God though. Jesus taught love and tolerance, love and tolerance fly in the face of base human nature. We are violent and hateful creatures but many of us try to rise above it. Those of us that can't or won't have designed God in their own image, rather than the reverse.

All I know is that I am what I am and there is nothing sinful about it
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megancate
another voice crying out in the wilderness
07:47 PM on 07/08/2012
Erin, fear not. There are many Christians who still do follow the teachings of Jesus and don't try and use the Bible to justify hating others. God Bless you.
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Erin Leader
Making the world beautiful one head at a time ;-)
10:28 AM on 07/09/2012
Thank you. Right back atcha! F&F'd
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Sheldon archer
Facebook name is Yuyun Archer
11:53 PM on 07/08/2012
God din't make you gay. Your genes did
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Erin Leader
Making the world beautiful one head at a time ;-)
10:27 AM on 07/09/2012
6 to one, half dozen to the other. It really makes no difference whether you believe in God or not, you can't argue with warped religious people if you don't acknowledge the possibility of a higher power. I do think there is a creator, I also think he/she isn't malicious or happy with people using him/her to justify bigotry.
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phal4875
The world is run by cats; we just feed them.
02:29 PM on 07/09/2012
I have no doubt that being heterosexual or homosexual is with us at birth, but it might be based on the level of certain chemicals in the amniotic fluid. It may not be genes that differ between people, but rather the fluid that surrounds us as we develop in the womb. Either way, it is certainly not a choice someone makes.
schatsie
Wall Street is Worse than Vegas
01:03 PM on 07/08/2012
Maybe when both Bush and Rove come out about Jeff Gannon, then we can have a real discussion about same sex relations....
11:38 AM on 07/08/2012
"One of the men, a Zambian, told this story: the first Zambian President, Kenneth Kaunda, the father of the nation, built the new state, gave it a solid foundation, promoted the welfare of the whole society and was widely admired, loved and respected for his contribution. Yet, when it was learned he had same-sex relations and promoted decriminalization of homosexuality, his legacy was erased. Did he become a different kind of person because he had same sex relations?"

I think that anytime you launch - verbally or mentally - into these kinds of ruminations, you have departed from really considering the level of human nature. What this person is doing is really thinking about "what causes homosexuality" and then looking at a particular case that challenges her/his understandings of nature/nurture. That's not really a reflection on human nature and sexuality. It's a social-sciency approach that, at best, gives you a way to deal with a certain logic-game or problem. In order to reflect on human nature and sexuality, I think that one has to stay within him or herself.
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
12:12 PM on 07/08/2012
Hi, Tara. I F & F'ed you for your previous, very thoughtful comment.

Now it's gone!
10:21 PM on 07/08/2012
Okay, let me try it again. I don't know exactly what I wrote, but I'm sure my train of thinking is the same. ;)
05:14 AM on 07/09/2012
I agree with the nature of rumination/questioning in this. I also hold that the author seems content with the fact that this exploration centres around the wrong core issue. Frankly, for people in leadership it should not matter whether homosexuality is unAfrican, unChristian or unhuman. Their quest for source or justification should be irrelevant.

All they should be evaluating is if they have the legitimate right to pass laws against/incite people against other citizens, when those pose no direct harm to other citizens. That is the question. The answer is no.

Look at South Africa, a country with high levels of homophobia but equality before the law in terms of protection from discrimination, marriage, adoption etc for gay people. The government enshrined equal rights in the constitution, including for different genders, religions, disabilities, races, cultures and sexual orientation. It was bucking the trend, and it had to do some clever politicking because over 70% of the country was against it.

But they did it. This is because their personal beliefs on the origin, justifiability or sanctity just don't matter when creating an equal society based on human rights. Human rights are an all or nothing decision in principle. These countries are quick to defend against racism, for example, but often silent on women's rights and vehemently opposed to gay rights. But you can't pick and chose. The principle that you want YOUR rights protected is the same principle that forces you to extend the same protection to others.
01:37 PM on 07/10/2012
I agree with you in terms of what the issue should be. My statement only had to do with the *type of thought* that is evidenced by that kind of reflection. I don't think it's at the level of "human nature."
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
11:28 AM on 07/08/2012
They Bible thumped (charmingly, one used a KINDLE!) to justify their prejudices, and pointed out that treating gay people as fully human "just isn't part of our tradition."

But they did it SO POLITELY.
10:50 PM on 07/08/2012
n certain professions in the U.S., you simply cannot participate unless you abide by certain norms of politeness. It doesn't matter that you're the one at the table with your entire life at stake, that the decisions they reach will affect health, that your own conscience leads you to different spiritual inklings. It just matters that you respect the fact that other people are different from you, as if you were unaware. It's up to the gay to carry the burden of difference. So, in other words, you spend your whole life trying to make peace with all of the injustice. To keep your sanity. To keep striving to be a good person who does not treat people in these ways. And then you sit at the table with the perpetrators who are moralizing against your very personhood and if you make ethical arguments against them in a tone that is anything but collegial -you are breaking the bonds of civil society itself (a few of them actually; "women" are historically the purveyors of culture).
S.L.A.V.E. M.O.R.A.L.I.T.Y. That is what it is.
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
09:54 AM on 07/09/2012
Thanks for repeating that!

Very well said!
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
10:14 AM on 07/08/2012
They thumped the Bible to justify their prejudice (one of them, charmingly, on a KINDLE), but they were SO POLITE about it!

"It's not part of our tradition, you see?" So now we'll just go on treating gay people like non-humans...

(See comments below.)
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
09:55 AM on 07/09/2012
Sorry to repeat myself above. That slow moderation gets me every time.
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phal4875
The world is run by cats; we just feed them.
02:36 PM on 07/09/2012
Fanned, DavidEm. It appears that society slowly moves forward as it tries to discard its biases. African-Americans became full people, and black men got the vote. Women then got rights, and now gay folks are seen as the complete humans they always have been. Societies just seem to go kicking and screaming into a future that recognizes that all of us do not have to be white, straight, older, land-owning men in order to participate fully in the rights with which we are born.
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DavidEm
Post tenebras lux.
12:29 AM on 07/12/2012
Thank you! That's very well said. I faved it (having already fanned you)!