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Moms With Guns

Posted: 10/14/08 11:36 AM ET

Sarah Palin may be the most famous hockey mom with a gun, but the debate about mothers who pack lunches, diapers, kids and heat was hot well before Palin became a household name.

Back in June, the website BabyCenter -- usually devoted to the gentler arts of motherhood -- posed this question: Do you think every mother should own a gun?

"I carry a Keltec 380 (small pistol) on my hip everyday," responded a mother of two toddlers. "I feel comfortable knowing that I will be able to defend my kids and I if we are in a life-threatening situation."

Another mother -- eight months pregnant and with a young child -- declared that "our gun is the only way I could defend myself and my children should someone intend to do us harm."
And there was this disclosure from a police officer mom: "I keep a loaded 9mm in my Coach diaper bag."

Suddenly, it seemed, mothers with guns were everywhere -- including movie star moms. Mother of six Angelina Jolie was quoted in British newspapers as saying she keeps a gun at home for security, and that "if anybody comes into my home and tries to hurt my kids, I've no problem shooting them."

The point-blank debate about point-blank defense continued on the ResponsibilityProject.com. "The mother who keeps her gun in her diaper bag should be locked up," one reader insisted. "That's just plain irresponsible. A holster keeps your firearm at the ready, but more or less secure."

But a holster -- when worn by a mother with a loaded gun -- also makes the national news, as happened last month in Lebanon, Pennsylvania when soccer mom Meleanie Hain showed up at her 5-year-old daughter's game with her loaded Glock pistol strapped to her hip. Parents upset at the site of the gun complained to the soccer coach, who asked Ms. Hain to move to the other side of the field, away from the 4 and 5-year-olds.

The day after the incident, the director of the soccer program -- a former judge -- notified Ms. Hain that she would be banned from attending her daughter's soccer games if she continued to do so with a loaded gun. "A responsible adult would realize that such behavior has no place at a soccer game," the director wrote.

A few days later, the sheriff revoked Ms. Hain's concealed weapons permit, based on a law that denies permits to any "individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a dangerous manner to public safety."

Moms with Glocks might not rock in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, but they do protest. "I'm just a soccer mom who has always openly carried [a gun], and I've never had a problem before," said Ms. Hain. "I don't understand why this is happening to me."

Ms. Hain hired a lawyer, who pointed out that it's perfectly legal to openly carry a firearm everywhere in Pennsylvania except for Philadelphia, and that the sheriff is "basically punishing her for doing something she is permitted by law to do." Ironically, the revocation of Ms. Hain's permit to conceal now forces her to wear her gun -- which she carries for "personal safety"-- out in the open.

"Meleanie Hain is welcome to attend any of my kids' sports or social functions while openly carrying her weapon," wrote one supporter in a letter to the newspaper editor, stating that if a "maniac" attacked, "legally armed citizens are the next line of defense." But another letter writer took offense, stating "Hain says she carries her gun because her husband is a probation officer...My husband works with meat all day; should he carry a meat cleaver?"

The entire episode prompted the local newspaper to quip, "What's the difference between a pit bull and a soccer mom? In the case of Meleanie Hain, it's a loaded sidearm."

As the debate about mothers with guns continues, one woman who took part in the discussion on the ResponsibilityProject.com zeroed in with a query of her own: "Would this question even be asked if it were a father and not a mother carrying the firearm?"

 
Sarah Palin may be the most famous hockey mom with a gun, but the debate about mothers who pack lunches, diapers, kids and heat was hot well before Palin became a household name. Back in June, the w...
Sarah Palin may be the most famous hockey mom with a gun, but the debate about mothers who pack lunches, diapers, kids and heat was hot well before Palin became a household name. Back in June, the w...
 
 
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01:23 PM on 10/17/2008
There is nothing wrong with openly carrying a gun, but to those who do, I would recommend two precautions:

#1. Carry a gun with safety switch and have the safety on. There are many police officers and citizens who are alive today after a criminal took their gun because the perp did not know how to turn the safety off. With proper training and practice, a safety can be de-activated during the draw without any loss of time or accuracy. The M1911 is probably best suited for this.

#2 Carry a concealed backup gun. This ensures that even if someone manages to steal your primary weapon, you still have the ability to defend yourself against it. Kel-Tec P32 and Ruger LCP are excellent for this role.

Famed police officer/firearms instructor Massad Ayoob also recommends these precautions:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_9_49/ai_n6212426?tag=content;col1
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BlackJAC
It's better to be a black king than a white knight
03:51 PM on 10/17/2008
Every firearms instructor I've ever been around said to never trust the safety, even if you use it. Stop acting like Sean Bean in RONIN.
06:27 PM on 10/17/2008
I didn't say put all your trust in the safety. I just said using it as an extra layer of protection is a good idea. As I said, there are many people who have survived being disarmed because the criminal could not figure out how to turn the safety off.
11:36 AM on 10/19/2008
"Stop acting like Sean Bean in RONIN."

LOL ...

I grew up around guns, BlackJac & I agree with you ... I've seen guns misused by my own family members (my adopted brother was convicted of attempted armed robbery) as well as others. Too many of the gunrights advocates cite lesser numbers of gun-violence fatalities; but often forget to weigh in the reality that lives are saved nowadays, due in part to medical advances & emergency procedures (that would have been another death-statistic otherwise).

Generally, I read too many romanticized views about firearms from gun-fanatic types, which tend to merely talk about the merits of possessing & using such weapons ... and not the dangers involved.
10:38 AM on 10/17/2008
Hmm, seems that most people who post here and choose to carry a gun prefer revolvers. Personally I'm not a big fan of them. They don't a lot of rounds and the heavy double action trigger pull can throw off shots. My CCW gun is a subcompact Springfield XD-9.
11:15 AM on 10/17/2008
M1911A1. A strip of skateboard tape to the front strap and I'm good to go.
10:36 AM on 10/17/2008
Virginia is a "shall issue" state for concealed carry. This means anyone can get one unless precluded by some other condition (convicted felon, restraining order, etc). It is also legal to "open carry" without any sort of permit whatsoever. I don't think my wife has ever fired a gun, so I make sure I have the means to defend her if neccesarry. I hope they will never be needed but I have them. On or about my person on a daily basis I carry tools. In my vehicle I carry tools such as flares, wrenches, and tire irons.
For work, I also carry a machete shovels. In my pocket I have a small pocketknife, keys, pens, and a pistol. Usually have fishing rods too. No flat tire yet, but I am PREPARED. Use my pocketknife often. Never had to use the pisol, but I am PREPARED.
03:38 PM on 10/17/2008
Second posting--Virginia is one of about 40 states with shall issue permits/
10:04 PM on 10/16/2008
This should be a case of local laws. No guns in children's play areas. Like no guns, knives or motorcycle helmets in bars. My main concern with gun ownership is when children or disenfranchised teens are in the house, that they be locked up.

I don't think, as (un) conventional wisdom seems to say -- that Democrats want to take away guns, or that Democrats don't own guns. That is absurd. I am a Democrat and I own several. Read through the comments, a lot of Dems here own them. Unless you do something stupid with them, they won't be taken away.
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jazzpotato
My micro-bio is a nano-bio. Can you see it?
11:11 PM on 10/16/2008
Why shouldn't I be able to bring my motorcycle helmet into a bar? I don't even drink.
11:55 PM on 10/16/2008
"My main concern with gun ownership is when children or disenfranchised teens are in the house, that they be locked up. "

I would agree with this, except to say that a gun can also be holster on your person instead of locked up. Carrying a gun concealed in holster makes it readily accessable when needed and keeps it away from unauthorized users. With the proper retention holster, a gun can also be secured when openly carried.
09:20 PM on 10/16/2008
They've banned rape, robbery, house invasion, carjacking. How successful was that?
The cliche bumper sticker is still the living truth--if guns are banned, only criminals will own guns.
If they are not banned, the possibility of a trained, armed individual as an adversary is quite sufficient to deter non-drugged criminals from victimizing anyone suspected as capable of self-defense.
My mom owned a gun, and kept it away from us until we were grown, as any sensible mother would.
My dad bought me my first gun, when I was of legal age. The militia in my family's home county has a woman chaplain and a large female membership. Nutcases? I doubt it--many are descended from volunteers who fought the British at King's Mountain. Many have grown children serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Women need guns, votes, and more and better women candidates than Palin.
01:34 PM on 10/17/2008
Related points--look at how well Prohibition worked with booze and is currently working with drugs and with firearms in DC and Chicago (both cities have extraordinary rates of gun violence).
07:48 PM on 10/16/2008
I don't worry about 99.99% of gun owners out there who are responsible for their guns. My grandfather had guns of all types and could use them with the precision of Tiger Woods in his Sunday red shirt. He was respectful and responsible for his guns. If a person is responsible for the use and storage of their guns then I have very few problems with them. It's the knuckleheads that leaves guns unsecured or don't bother to teach their kids to respect something that can kill or maim in a spil second that cause our problems in the country.
06:56 PM on 10/16/2008
It was an imprudent act on the woman's behalf. Don't hate the rest of us gun-owners who enjoy target shooting and hunting. We are not all nuts frothing about our "right to bear arms"
07:37 PM on 10/16/2008
Why was it imprudent? What ever happened to "It's legal, I want to"?
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03:58 AM on 10/17/2008
It is imprudent because children and guns are a bad mix. I am related to many police officers, who would never EVER wear a holstered weapon around their kids or other people's children. The first thing my cousin-in-law does when he comes home from his day at work (he's a state trooper) is to walk straight to his lock box and lock up his weapon. Then he kisses his kids and goes to the park.

That is prudence.
05:58 PM on 10/16/2008
The fact that someone becomes a parent doesn't instantly transform them into something different than what they were before. They don't suddenly become more mature, wiser, smarter, or practical. if they were stupid before and thought it was cool to pack heat in public, they'll be stupid afterward and continue to believe that idea.

American people tend to have a simplistic view of life and create artificial categories that bear no connection to reality.
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andvoodoo2
My micro-bio is teeming with biodiversity.
06:53 PM on 10/16/2008
I think grouping all "American people" is overly "simplistic" and is a classic example of an attempt to "create artificial categories that bear no connection to reality."
05:19 PM on 10/16/2008
: "Would this question even be asked if it were a father and not a mother carrying the firearm?

Yes, it would. Perhaps people shouldn't be taking babies into areas they feel are so unsafe that they need to carry a gun to protect themselves.
06:16 PM on 10/16/2008
What if she just wanted to carry it?
04:50 PM on 10/16/2008
Yeah,

Banning something is always the way to go.
LIke banning books or censoring speech. Abstinence only sex education, and a while we are at it - lets ban recreational drug use(alcohol and cigarettes don't count).

Hey I don't own gun but I understand especially how a woman would like "carry" given their natural concerns regarding their personal safety. Training is of course the key.

Now if we could just ban stupidity...bad idea nobody would run for office.
03:16 PM on 10/16/2008
Guns should be banned period, except for hunting and only during that season. Owning a gun and shooting a person are two positions. I was lawfully afforded the right to carry a gun several years ago. And when that right ceased, I no longer had the desire to carry one. Reason, they do not make you feel any safer, and secondly, they cause more harm than good. Innately, we have the capacity to handle attackers without the use of guns.. I recall being approached in a parking lot of a shopping mall by an individual who concealed what appeared to be a gun in his pocket. Granted I had my weapon on me at the time, but did not think to grab it. However, when I saw that he did not have a gun, after he grabbed my new leather skirt and purse from my hand, the power within me went to grab him and kick his a$$. And I almost did, but he outran me when I chased him down on foot. But in the after thought, I never thought only if I had my gun out. Thankfully, I didn''t because anytime you use deadly force against someone, there is a grandjury inquiry and sometimes, it might not go your way.
04:07 PM on 10/16/2008
Votingisreform--of course you know your ban'em all stance is completely unconstitutional as well as a related counter--the right to self defense is also protected by a combination of the 2nd and ninth amendments, and since the right of selfdefense protects the logical extension that it is effective--the tools with which to defend your life are protected and that includes firearms.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
04:29 PM on 10/16/2008
You can move to England. Guns are banned there. Of course, you will have to be careful of their knife crime.

Luckily my rights trump your emotionalism. Also. i'd LOVE to see your statistics to substantiate your unfounded claim that "[guns] cause more harm than good." You'll lose that one every time.
09:43 PM on 10/23/2008
Here are some statistics too:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-1023-mccain-on-life.html
02:10 PM on 10/16/2008
As a mother and grandmother, who is self employed and lives in a rural area, I always carry a S & W 38. I travel a lot and am in areas where cell phones do not work and a gun is protection not only from two legged pretators but also the four legged ones, you might encounter. If everyone carried then you would see crime go down as no one wants to be shot and criminals will think twice before attacting someone they know is armed or breaking into their home. My 90 year old Mother in law always has her 22 in her pocket. Guns are safe to carry, ever heard of one going off in your purse or pocket? Children of peole who have guns are educated about them, and all of my grandchildren have been taught safety and how to shoot before they are 7. If they know about them there is no curiosity to see what happens. We also live in a community with lots of Amish, how would they protect their families when the men are away at work? If we defend ourselves and our rights we will not become victims!
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ramsha
01:36 PM on 10/16/2008
The argument that "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns” sounds logical. However if we had acted about fifty years ago to control, at least the handguns and automatic weapons, we would have much fewer dangerous firearms today in circulation in the hands of the so-called "outlaws" If one has to have a license to own a motor vehicle, why is it not possible to enforce gun control laws? In most European countries where "Gun control" is in practice in some form, statistics show that the total firearms related mortality and morbidity is lower than USA.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
02:12 PM on 10/16/2008
But you forget to mention that the UK now has uncontrollable knife crime, and a per capita crime rate greater than the US.

Looking at GUN VIOLENCE is only looking at a portion of the true problem. Controlling overall violence sould be our goal, one we cannot attain by regulating implements.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
12:52 PM on 10/16/2008
a couple points:

a) there would be MORE backlash were it a man, I believe, since it would create more anxiety about inappropriate gun use since men are historically more aggressive, or at least perceived as such. However, for this same reason, a woman with a gun, especially a mother, would draw more attention.

b) also, refer to the following quote from this article:

" A few days later, the sheriff revoked Ms. Hain's concealed weapons permit, based on a law that denies permits to any "individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a dangerous manner to public safety." "

The bad reputation she gained was a result of her carrying her weapon to the soccer game. She had received the permit in the first place, so the permit itself was the reason for her bad reputation. She acted in a "dangerous manner" by carrying a gun, so by this ruling anyone who carried a gun would be a danger to public safety and therefore no one should carry guns at all. (just to clarify -- that's the rationale I'm extrapolating from this quote, not my own belief).
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andvoodoo2
My micro-bio is teeming with biodiversity.
02:18 PM on 10/16/2008
I'm an attorney. IMO, the language of the law is arbitrary and will not survive a challenge.
12:46 PM on 10/16/2008
How come Americans are the only people that think that guns are a necessary part of everyday life? I have never even seen a gun, apart from when the times I have visited the US (airport security).
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
01:01 PM on 10/16/2008
Curious as to what country you're from?
02:10 PM on 10/16/2008
United Kingdom
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andvoodoo2
My micro-bio is teeming with biodiversity.
02:25 PM on 10/16/2008
I lived through Katrina on the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain in LA.. We lost power for more than 5 weeks. Temperatures averaged in the 90s. Trees blocked the roads (we lost over 200 trees on 3.8 acres) and fell on our cars. We had a generator but little food and all of the stores were closed and inaccessible. The situation was desperate. People started coming into our area to steal generators and anything else they could get. It was incredible and very frightening. I had my 2 daughters and my parents in their 80s to look after. I was never so happy in all my life to have guns. I will NEVER be without a gun after what I lived through.