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Kevin Bermeister

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Time Travel, Your Mother and the Limits of Science

Posted: 10/17/11 10:12 AM ET

What would happen if you traveled back in time and killed your mother before she gave birth to you? That would mean you could never be born, in which case, how could you have traveled back in time?

This riddle of cause-and-effect, while fun to spend a few hours scratching your head over, has never had much relevance in the real world. But it's been in the headlines in the last few weeks, as particle physicists have gathered evidence that sub-atomic particles called neutrinos may travel faster than light. Why is this such a big deal? Well, a direct result of faster-than-light travel, according to Einstein's theory of relativity, is time-travel: A light signal, and therefore information, could arrive at its destination before it had even been sent! Such nonsensical, "causality violating" situations, in which an effect occurs before the thing that caused it, would send the edifice of science crashing down. As Alvaro De Rújula, a theorist at CERN, the group that conducted the experiment, said, "If it is true, then we truly haven't understood anything about anything."

The finite, physical universe is a different thing altogether from the infinite, eternal backdrop of which the universe is merely a part. They may be related, but we do not know how, nor can we: Science and math, both useful systems of understanding, are finite, so they can never describe the infinite. There is a real chance that the longed-for union of the physical with the metaphysical will never come to be. The finite and the infinite may very well remain irreconcilable by the materialistic theories of science. If they do, we should hardly be surprised. Indeed, at the sub-atomic level of science, the more we know, the less we know -- quite literally, as progress depends on our ability to measure particles at ever decreasing scales. In this theoretical realm, in which evanescent, miniscule flashes of energy are interpreted as the signatures of ultimate reality, the line between belief and science is easily smudged. And while there are undoubtedly benefits to understanding the sub-microscopic world, there are also costs: A society that believes that the ultimate source of reality can be apprehended through the cold tools of science risks losing a valuable part of its humanity.

Where knowledge enhances and improves life, there should we apply our intellects. But when the pursuit of knowledge begins to resemble speculation, science has crossed a border into a different field altogether -- that of philosophy. Those who read the headlines and naively champion the methods of science remain unaware of these branch points. They are fooled by the subterfuge of the quasi-scientific, and take comfort from the apparent ability of science to discern the universe's infinite origin. But perhaps now that we have seen hints that the laws of physics break down, and that the universe might not enforce Einstein's cosmic speed limit all that strictly, how will we react? Will we once again launch into obsessive, metaphysical speculation that takes us further and further from reality? Or will we shore up the little we do know and apply it to the actual conditions of our lives?

Just as, in our day, scientists publish evidence-based papers in scientific journals, the philosophers, religious scholars, sages and prophets who came before us recorded their voyages into the metaphysical. Jewish mysticism offers a vast system for contemplating ultimate reality. Over many millennia, despite obscurity, persecution and deprivation, Jewish scholars continued to investigate this reality, the one we all live in, in works that offer profound insights even in the current age. But the headlines distract us from our heritage. "Subterfuge science" too often convinces people that the modern metaphysics of quantum speculation are better informed than religious traditions as old as history, and have something more meaningful to offer. When trying to comprehend the blurred no-man's-land between physics and metaphysics, in which the frontier of science operates, it is all too easy for modern people to close their minds to tradition and cite the newest, most preliminary of scientific results as proof that science provides a more comprehensive point of view than religion.

Sometimes it is the very profligacy of science that is the problem. We see enormous amounts of new information every day: data amplification, comparative analyses and pattern detection, all suggesting new directions for investigating reality. We struggle to make sense of the world, but the glut of information that is an inescapable fact of life in the Internet age can make this harder, not easier. Our heads are swimming with information. And so we make snap decisions, and any decision that is not fully and carefully considered will inevitably impact our lives in a negative way.

For example, as children we are taught that the earth revolves around the sun. But this isn't strictly true: The sun and earth rotate around their shared central point of mass like dancing bodies in space, sensitively poised to affect each other. This small, but significant, mistake, introduced in childhood, leaves the adult with a misperception about the world that gets repeated and passed down the generations.

Despite the great strides that man has made in the past few hundred years, we still can say what Socrates said long ago: that the wisest man is the man who is most aware of his own ignorance. And science, as useful and impressive as it is, nonetheless must remain a finite system. At its edge, indeed, is ignorance. So do we rely on the incomplete approximations of science, rejecting religion? Do we assume that the great minds of the prophets and sages of centuries past, who devoted their lives to the study of the metaphysics that science is just now beginning to brush up against, were less sophisticated than we are? That the intellects that defined the world's major religious paradigms were deficient?

Time is strange. It is the one dimension in which we can only travel forward -- we could not, even if we wanted to, journey to the past to murder a parent. Nor can we halt the stream of time, even for a moment. It is always passing us by. As Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote,

Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.

Before the tune ends -- before it is too late -- we should have the courage and humility to realize that, for all our vanity and the vaunting ambitions of science, our highest goal should remain to leave the world, when we depart it, better, brighter and more worthy for those who come after.

 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Danek Greori
10:07 PM on 11/26/2011
Your article provides a great message but your writing style comes off as a WAY too pretentious.
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Brad North
06:50 PM on 10/30/2011
The entire universe was created yesterday, complete with light enroute from distant galaxies as well as our own memories. Prove this isn't so.
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Brad North
06:46 PM on 10/30/2011
"Science has discovered something difficult and confusing, so now we non-scientists can make up whatever we want to because they obviously don't know everything." It has ever been thus. For more on stupid people knowing everything, Google the "Dunning-Kruger effect".
02:46 PM on 10/18/2011
"Jewish mysticism offers a vast system for contemplating ultimate reality. Over many millennia,... Jewish scholars continued to investigate this reality, the one we all live in, in works that offer profound insights even in the current age."

The irony of Bermiester's article is that the potential discovery he would use to subsume science to mysticism was conceptualized and realized by scientists using scientific apparatus and methodology, NOT by Jewish mystics mumbling mantras.

"And science... At its edge, indeed, is ignorance. So do we rely on the incomplete approximations of science, rejecting religion?"

A race of super intelligent aliens constructed a machine and pressed the button creating the universe as we know it, in addition to completely eliminating all traces of the alien race. Can you prove this didn't happen instead of a supernatural being? Appeal to ignorance represses inquiry, adding nothing to the store of human knowledge.

Despite the sanctimonious tirade against science, why is there NOT one example, in this article, of the "profound insights" from Jewish mystic scholars applicable to the current age?
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Kevin Bermeister
11:47 PM on 10/18/2011
This article makes the point that scientific philosophies may be better served by the more developed history of metaphysical philosophy, of which Judaism offers the oldest and most well researched traditions, rather than attempting to apply precision to fields which scientists using science cannot.
02:46 PM on 10/20/2011
Philosophy was rendered obsolete in the early 20th century with the advent of relativity and quantum physics, and has since made no significant contribution to the natural sciences.

Non-overlapping magisteria - Science should not intrude on matters of religion; BUT, by the same token, religion should not interfere in the sphere of science. And yet, religionists can't seem to restrain themselves grabbing at any and all straws, even the findings of science if there's the remote chance to prop up their belief in supernatural beings. (Galileo, genetic research, stem cell research, high energy particle accelerators,...)

The discoveries of science have naturally intruded on what was considered religious territory (religion claimed all knowledge) to the point now religion must abstract itself to utter meaninglessness or deny the evidence just to survive.

"...scientific philosophi­es may be better served by... Judaism offers the oldest... tradition..."

Scientific philosophies? Like the theory of gravity, evolution, biology, physics, astrophysics,...?

Appeal to tradition gives no privileged position - "religion’s claims of either unique authority or even particularly superior insight into moral, spiritual, and metaphysical issues is entirely unjustified, presumptuous, and, even, offensive. These are domains accessible [AND accountable] to reason..." - D. Fincke
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FilthyHarry
Expletive Deleted
01:33 PM on 10/18/2011
Aren't scientists who search for answers, effectively admitting their ignorance wiser than believers who think they know everything because every answer is ultimately 'god'?

Also scientific research never begins to enter into the world of speculation. It starts from the very beginning as speculation. Science is at its very core a method for determining which speculation is true and which is false. Which can be proven and which can be discarded, which seems most likely, which seems least likely, using trial, experimentation, peer review to reach its conclusions. There is nothing philosophical about scientific speculation. You seem to have a rather flawed understanding of what science is.

And, that the earth and the sun are involved in other motions, that does not make the fact that the sun revolves around the earth in any way less true. In fact its truth, so often taught to children is necessary to combat the falseness of the easily arrived at notion that the sun revolves around the earth which religion championed for so many centuries, despite claiming to be in touch with the creator of the universe.
03:10 PM on 10/18/2011
"You seem to have a rather flawed understand­ing of what science is."

You seem to have a rather flawed understanding of what religion is. I'm not a believer, but I think it's like this. God is an artifact of our conscious experience and points to something real. It's not rational and can't be known by logic or reason. It can only be known by being present to it; like the color blue (the experience of which only exists between our ears although, in our experience, it's totally out there.) From the outside it looks like the living intention of the human species. From the inside it's God. You can take issue with stories like God created everything and God is all powerful and God is on our side, not because it matter that that exists or not in the scientific sense, but because you experience God differently and its your experience. Maybe you don't even call it God, but the neuroscience sure says that the self in your mind isn't doing it alone, so there is something beyond the self and it matters.
05:14 PM on 10/18/2011
Okay, you know all this, but how? The means is by which you've obtained this "knowledge" is what's being questioned here.
05:49 PM on 10/18/2011
>I'm not a believer, but I think it's like this. God is...but the neuroscien­ce sure says that the self in your mind isn't doing it alone, so there is something beyond the self and it matters.

So you are a believer who has just displayed a complete lack of knowledge about cognitive science.
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Kevin Bermeister
11:57 PM on 10/18/2011
I think you have misread my statements. The point applies to those "fooled" because they do not or are unable to discern scientific speculation. Your point about the "other motions" of the sun and earth does not abrogate the fact that the sun and moon rotate around their common center of mass, notwithstanding other effects, it would be better to teach more sensitively so that young minds would be influenced to explore the fact rather than the dogma.
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FilthyHarry
Expletive Deleted
08:56 AM on 10/19/2011
That some people don't fully understand the scientific process doesn't reflect anything on science. Nonetheless a flawed understanding of science is better than a blind belief based on nothing, mistaken as knowledge.

Also, how is teaching young children that the earth revolves around the sun dogmatic? Its not the whole story but it is undeniably true, and the education doesn't end there. Are we to teach advanced astrophysics to preschoolers? The earth revolving around the sun is merely part of the first lesson in an introduction to astronomy and more importantly an introduction to young minds that things are not always as they seem. And introduction into rejecting the easy and obvious answer, into rejecting dogma.
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Jim Milks
Ecologist
10:15 AM on 10/18/2011
Unfortunately for the opening paragraph of the above post, it looks like the faster-than-light OPERA results were due to calibration errors. If anything, this dust-up over relativity demonstrates the self-corrective nature of science.

http://unchartedterritory.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/analysis-of-fibre-delay-calibration-error-in-cern-opera-neutrino-speed-experiment/
12:19 PM on 10/18/2011
I figured someone would find this to be so, or that the results had no bearing on the conclusion of "time travel". People love to drag out this kind of thing, but it doesn't change the fact that science is DEFINED as the pursuit of RATIONAL CAUSAL explanations of physical reality. So the first consequence is that the universe according to science is meaningless. Caused means caused. It does not mean chosen or decided by some figment of our consciousness operating outside of the laws of science. Quantum outcomes may be probabilistic, but they are still caused and the interference pattern of possibilities will always be the same interference pattern or we couldn't run the experiment as a predictive causal model. We can bring this kind of thing up and obfuscate, but that's all it is. Causal means causal. Even the multi-universe is not determined by the free will of some figment of our consciousness or some higher intelligence operating outside the laws of science. In science agency simply doesn't exist. Science can't prove that the whole universe is rational and caused, but it's not science if it doesn't start with that premise. We can use science to explain why we think we have free will, but it can never demonstrate that we have it. If the neutrino experiment is true, then it doesn't mean that science is metaphysical or informative of divine agency. It means that Einstein was wrong.
05:24 PM on 10/18/2011
Thankfully, the local pastor was able to set straight those rambunctious scientists and their outrageous theories. Good ol' religion, correcting science since the dawn of time 6,000 years ago.
07:51 AM on 10/18/2011
The limits of science are much closer to home than the high end maths and physics of cosmology which have little impact on normal life. Consider the search for an Aids vaccine. Thirty years on, billions spent on medical research and a big naught to show for it, unless you regard expensive therapies 'progress'. Those limitations become even more acute when considering the 'voyages' of vain, metaphysical imagination, sometimes called religion. "When the pursuit of knowledge begins to resemble speculation" it is speculation! Whether you call it science or religion.

We may be a clever species, unlimited in aspiration but all too limited in potential. "we should have the courage and humility to realize that, for all our vanity and the vaunting ambitions" humanity has failed to comprehend values that are sustainable, spiritual and moral. Unable to leave a "better, brighter and more worthy for those who come after." The human 'voyage' is on the rocks, with no lifeboat insight! http://soulgineering.com/2011/05/22/the-final-freedoms/
11:26 PM on 10/30/2011
I suppose in the limited sense, you are correct, there is not yet an HIV vaccine, but there has been astounding progress!

The average life expectancy of someone diagnosed with HIV in a wealthy country with access to modern medicine is 20-50 years! We have made progress and it goes to show that all that donating hasn't gone to waste, there is much left to do and this progress is not yet reason to sit back and be proud of ourselves, but is is sometimes helpful to take a step back and realize that we can make things better for people suffering with the disease.
Again, not saying we're done, or that unequal access to the drugs isn't a problem, just that only stating that we don't have a vaccine without pointing out how much we have been able to do is a little disingenuous as it might lead people to believe there is no hope when in reality there is.

Sources

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-4632.2007.03520.x/abstract;jsessionid=7F6C920D108CF92A4CAF1E1B2C8990F4.d01t04

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(08)61113-7/fulltext
03:54 AM on 10/18/2011
I think this was a brilliant post! I fully agree that the physical and metaphysical will never be understood to the degree which satisfies either finite or infinite. And, it's man's lack of understanding about the metaphysical which measures the "speed of darkness".

There will always be advances in the sciences. Some will appear to shake the foundations of accepted theories and the laws of nature which we have agreed upon as being written in stone. However, will the study of all things physical allow us to bridge that chasm which separates us from the mind of God? No, it will not. At best we will always be second guessing.

Just as traveling back in time is impossible, so it too is impossible to travel ahead into the future. Mankind is limited to only his present time, and man is sharing this present time with all of the universe.
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RedDogBear
11:54 AM on 10/18/2011
" is impossible to travel ahead into the future. "

You are wrong about traveling forward in time. Its quite possible and in fact in a very small way you do it every time you get on a plane or even into a car. Einstein showed that time slows down as velocity increases. On earth scales we never notice because the speeds we travel at are so slow compared to the speed of light. But its a well established fact that if you had a person flying in a space ship at close to the speed of light when a year had passed for them ten years would have passed for people on earth. I.e., when they returned they would have travelled nine years forward into the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox

This isn't theory or speculation its well established fact and its been measured with highly accurate clocks. The effect also has to be taken into consideration for sattelites to keep their clocks in alignment with earth clocks.
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Kevin Bermeister
12:07 AM on 10/19/2011
The point you make is correct, but vary hard for anyone to go fast enough to kill their mother in the way you describe. Did any of the rest of the article make sense or was this the principle issue for you?
01:38 AM on 10/18/2011
"The finite, physical universe is a different thing altogether from the infinite, eternal backdrop of which the universe is merely a part"

Maybe not. I find room in my philosophy of the universe for both ideas. The more I learn of physics, the more I believe in the "eternal backdrop." I got all excited when I read about this possible discovery. The implications are mind-boggling and fascinating.
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RedDogBear
05:53 PM on 10/17/2011
Mr. Bermeister, I've read several articles about the results at CERN but I've never read any scientist who seriously puts forward that overturning cause and effect is a probable explanation. Most likely this result will turn out to be experimental error. The difference between the observed speed of the Neutrinos and the speed of light is something like .000001%

However, on the unlikely event that this isn't experimental error the implications could be incredible. The most common possible explanation I've heard is that this could offer proof of additional dimensions beyond our normal four. If that is the explanation then Einstein's limit is still in effect. Its just that the neutrinos are taking short cuts through additional dimensions. Lisa Randall had an interesting article on that here on Huffpo a while ago:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-randall/cern-speed-of-light-einstein_b_979883.html
05:09 PM on 10/17/2011
Regarding the limits of science, the scientific method (at least in the real sciences) consists of producing models constructed out of datastructures and algorithms, which are used to predict the behavior of the phenomena under investigation. Successful models are those with the greatest predictive accuracy and widest applicability.

Science may never be able to analyse such 'metaphysical' phenomena as semantics, qualia, consciousness and intention because these 'things' do not have any structure, either static or procedural - they do not have any conceptual 'nuts and bolts' for the dismantling tools of science to get a grip on... http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2009/10/non-algorithmic-phenomena.html
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RedDogBear
05:35 PM on 10/17/2011
If you define science as the natural sciences then by definition things like semantics, math, logic, and much of computer science aren't capable of analysis by science. But if you define science more broadly to include both the empirical tools of the natural sciences and the deductive techniques of math and logic then its ridiculous to say that math/science can only study things that have physical structure.

The whole foundation for the fields of linguistics and computer science are based on analysis of abstract structures totally devoid of any concept of realization in the real world.

New-age/religious critics such as this author often say nonsensical things such as that science can't really comprehend the infinite. People who have taken a course in advanced logic and set theory know how ridiculous that is. Not only can the infinite be formally defined but the difference between various kinds of infinities such as the natural numbers vs. the rational numbers can be defined and various characteristics about both can be rigorously proven.
05:53 PM on 10/17/2011
I never said PHYSICAL structure. A table of prime numbers has no 'physical' structure but it can be derived and studied mathematical techniques.
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sandalwood
songs of the shamans...
07:20 PM on 10/17/2011
Very clearly stated, imo. Heisenberg said much the same thing in 'Physics and Philosophy', quoted below...

"Any concepts or words which have been formed in the past through the interplay between the world and ourselves are not really sharply defined with respect to their meaning: that is to say, we do not know exactly how far they will help us in finding our way in the world. We often know that they can be applied to a wide range of inner or outer experience, but we practically never know precisely the limits of their applicability. This is true even of the simplest and most general concepts like "existence" and "space and time". Therefore, it will never be possible by pure reason to arrive at some absolute truth."

And I also think very highly of this by him...

"Whenever we proceed from the known into the unknown we may hope to understand, but we may have to learn at the same time a new meaning of the word "understanding." [Epistemic issues are not well understood by most, by Heisenberg certainly gets the difference between conceptual and experiential knowledge; Yoga and Buddhism certainly get it]

"There is a fundamental error in separating the parts from the whole, the mistake of atomizing what should not be atomized. Unity and complementarity constitute reality."
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Cole 33
Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
04:20 PM on 10/17/2011
I have come to the conclusion that people would rather *believe* than *know*. It's as if people don't like the process of Philosophy and Science as they try to remove doubt from knowledge, to find literal truth to questions "How can we make the Deaf, hear" "How can stay inside the house while going to the bathroom"?

It's fun to believe, I mean I would hate a world without mystery, and there's are things I believe that have no provable basis as of yet, but at the end of the day, when it really comes down to it, when you need a heart, when you need to get across the country in 5 hours, when you need to call someone on the other side of the globe, when you take a picture of your kids, when you tear up seeing a woman who was born deaf hearing for the first time because of a new technology, when you witness someone stepping on the moon, you're gonna run to science.
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RedDogBear
05:39 PM on 10/17/2011
I agree. Belief can be certain. Knowledge never can be. Belief is easy knowledge takes lots and lots of effort.

Its incredibly ironic that when some potentially new discovery in science is announced the new agers and the religious will jump on it and say "Ha! This just shows how bad science is, its always changing, its never certain" not realizing that in reality is one of the core strengths of science.
03:58 PM on 10/17/2011
I couldn't get any further with this than the second paragraph.

"Such nonsensical, "causality violating" situations, in which an effect occurs before the thing that caused it, would send the edifice of science crashing down." Nope, wouldn't happen. Science and scientists LOVE having everything tipped on its ear. It's utterly ridiculous to believe that science would come crashing down because of a new, even when it is mindblowing, discovery. Science has been making such discoveries for centuries and the only result has ever been to strenghten science, not destroy it.

"The finite, physical universe is a different thing altogether from the infinite, eternal backdrop of which the universe is merely a part." Hello, you are making a rather huge assumption here. There is no proof that your 'eternal backdrop' exists.

"A society that believes that the ultimate source of reality can be apprehended through the cold tools of science risks losing a valuable part of its humanity." Sorry, but this is just another rephrasing of the old morality is contingent on god/religion meme. Not true, not even a little bit.
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RedDogBear
05:41 PM on 10/17/2011
I agree. Its amazing how every new potentially amazing scientific discovery is greeted by jeers like this. "See, scientists think they know EVERYTHING but this shows that they don't!" As if any scientist with a shred of credibility would claim that science knows everything.
03:42 PM on 10/17/2011
But of course... why bothering trying to learn more about out universe using the fallible and rational process of science, when all we need is the metaphysical travels of our local clerical figure... Silly me.

If you excuse me, I'll just go throw away my PhDs and be back in a minute.
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methodman
03:38 PM on 10/17/2011
We already exist as Time Travel Really what this means is The ideas the Albert Einstein, James Clerk Maxwell. Church of Light Astrology Courses, Safari Books, VTC, Marvel Comics, Dummies and Idiot's books, Absolutely Mad DVD, National Geographic Complete Collection, Complete New Yorker and Rhapsody. World Book Encyclopedia on DVD and Britannica on DVD. As well many textbooks have configured many hard to explain ideas and are available to anyone. Time is vocabulary extension and plumbing experience to expand into what is Enough and Enhancements mean. This conversation is Here now. If you refuse to become literate, Go to school for $36 preferring instead a carton of Newports or Marlborough That is a choice. The rest of us appreciate the labors of others through the years and Do support these services. These products are a labor of love and all reasonably priced for what they are unlike FOR PROFIT COLLEGES.
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RedDogBear
05:44 PM on 10/17/2011
Now who can argue with that? Thank you methodman Johnson. I'm so glad that the kids reading this could see that authentic example of Internet gibberish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U

Rubbd!