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God's Time, Science's Ideal

Posted: 09/12/11 08:20 PM ET

In March of last year, the physicists at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland set a record for the most energetic science experiment ever conducted, probing space and time with unprecedented precision. The LHC is the culmination of an experimental program that began in the early part of the 20th century, following the discovery of the quantum nature of microscopic space, in which energy comes in discrete units, or quanta; and relativity, in which time and space are unified as space-time. The two theories govern different phenomena, for the most part, but share a central theme: It is impossible for a single observer, locked into his or her unique, limited perspective, to discern the fundamental nature of reality. In short, an observer does not merely observe an event, but also subtly and unavoidably influences the event that he or she is observing. Only an entity that permeates space and time -- only God -- can observe creation at all scales simultaneously.

Modern science agrees that the limitations imposed on the observer by quantum mechanics and relativity are real, yet some scientists are still motivated to continue to experiment in the hope that a time will come when they can prove God's non-existence. Man has always probed the unknown, trying to discover new information about reality that will empower him. So displacing God from His all-seeing perspective would seem to be the ultimate act of liberation. Yet science strictly rules this possibility out. Why is it that God prevails in this argument? Why does God precede all physical phenomena, including scientific theories constructed to explain these phenomena? Why does God deserve His pre-eminent position in the cosmos?

This, perhaps, is what irks the atheist community the most: God's status as the ultimate observer. Some atheists may not object to practices of the believer, nor to the respect that religious people pay to God's wisdom, but at bottom atheists find it painful to admit that knowledge is limited. Yet science itself, supposedly the atheist's greatest ally, shows that it is.

The nature of time reveals the limits of human knowledge. Time intervals, as discovered by relativity, prevail at increasing and decreasing scales. A clock that ticks in seconds and tenths of seconds may be useful for a sprinter, but as we move up to large objects of planetary size, we need a different scale. Seconds and milliseconds are irrelevant to the slow, ponderous motions of planets.

On the other hand, atoms scurry around so quickly that seconds are not too brief to be meaningful, but far too long. To an atom, the duration of a single second on a sprinter's clock is seemingly endless, for an electron's movements are measured in billionths of a second. In studying nature, therefore, the observable impact of one object upon another must be viewed in time-frames that are relevant to the actions of the objects under study.

One may argue that though a man is large, he is nonetheless made up of countless atoms, each of which is subject to the actions of the other atoms jostling against it. How are each of these atoms affected by external forces? It is hard to say: Our aggregated atomic structures are much too large for us to discern the minute actions of the atomic and sub-atomic realm. More importantly, even if we used instruments that were the same size as sub-atomic particles, and therefore small enough to register the actions we wished to observe, those instruments themselves would be subject to the same actions as those influencing the particles we wished to study!

We cannot observe without also influencing, but some members of our scientific communities spend inordinate sums of money under the pretense that we can, hoping for experimental outcomes that are fundamentally impossible to reach. This is not to say that we do not make some progress. Indeed, we do. Measurements at trillionths, quadrillionths, quintillionths and sextillionths of a second may ultimately reveal whether the Higgs boson -- the so-called "God particle" -- exists. But what is the potential use of this knowledge? We may hope that it can be used to foster advances in quantum computing. More optimistically, we may see advances in commercial nuclear fusion that can bring cheap, green energy to the billions of poverty stricken people who are suffering on earth at this very moment. But with every discovery come more questions. And it's unlikely that the observer-status of those seeking the Higgs boson will be neutralized by their quest to observe the unobservable.

Math and science deploy complicated frameworks to describe and understand phenomena at all scales of time and space. But reality operates at all intervals simultaneously. A starving child, longing for food, has no clock to measure the slow dance of the sun and the earth around their shared center of mass. A fly's eyes have hundreds of different facets with which it is able to detect the briefest flickers of movement. But the mind of an Alzheimer's patient cannot construct a ladder of time at all. For such a person, the chronology of existence is a broken fundament, falling into utter disorder, and the events of yesterday never occurred, despite the fact that their heart continues to beat at the same rate as everyone else's.

There is a disconnect between our subjective impressions and observations of time and the universal time that can only be perceived by God. Ultimately, recognition of the universal, delicate synchronicity that enmeshes us at every scale of time and space may enable us to be more sensitively attuned to our interconnected universe -- a sort of cosmic soup that is both sub-atomic and vast at the same time. But all of time, because its nature changes with the size of the phenomenon being observed, is ultimately unknowable. We must not live in denial, therefore, that the most fundamental question about reality must remain a mystery: How did time begin?

Confirming the non-existence of God is not man's ultimate challenge, for it is a futile aspiration. Indeed, in order to prove God that did not exist, we would need to have the kind of universal, all-seeing perspective that only God can possess. So, in a sense, only God could prove His non-existence! This is more than an amusing word-puzzle. It points to a basic fact about existence. We are inextricably unified, at all scales of time and space, with all of creation. Swallowing our pride, recognizing this interdependence and adjusting our behavior to better co-exist with it is certainly one of humanity's higher purposes. It may also be our greatest challenge.

 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sweetlilthing
hurt no one but tell the truth
06:49 AM on 09/28/2011
This article reminds me of that joke where the scientist is writing a long equation on the blackboard and in the middle of the equation he's written "and then a Miracle happens". There's always a "Big Leap" statement in these articles that want you to believe that a God is somehow involved in science. Here it is "Only an entity that permeates space and time -- only God -- can observe creation at all scales simultaneously."

I don't believe that the Atheist is irked that "God's status as the ultimate observer" I think that believer's keep forgetting that Atheists don't believe God exists so how can we be irked that you say he's an observer? Maybe believers are irked that their god is absent and now they must maintain that he's an "observer only". Also " yet some scientists are still motivated to continue to experiment in the hope that a time will come when they can prove God's non-existence? Really? Scientist's goals are to prove god doesn't exist? I seriously doubt that's what motivates scientists to do research.
No amount of viewing things with a broken Alzheimer's patient's mind or a fly's many faceted eye will clarify the questions we have about things unknown. The best thing is to admit that knowledge is limited and we don't have all the answers ...yet
11:56 AM on 09/21/2011
Let's call it whatever it isn't, let's chat about whether it exists or not, but let's not kill or fight about whether you or I have a better understanding of what it is or isn't. Free will and imagination is for everyone to use as they will and if it can presume the perfect human to style oneself to be or conjure a most amazingly objective viewpoint in the Universe, or visualize the true nature of infinitesimal nothingness, it is all good. Human imaginations stands out as the core attribute of all that is inescapably the mind behind mathematics, science and religion rolled into the one. Thus we all share a grand oneness in imagining what we freely can and will. ;-) peace.
04:32 PM on 09/13/2011
Rumor has it that the scientists are allowed to do pure science with the collider in hopes that knowledge of how to make an anti-matter bomb will be an unintended result. I don't think anybody using the collider has a goal of proving or disproving something non-scientific (God) The ultimate question is not ‘How did time start’—you already mentioned time is shorter or longer, thus a secondary attribute of energy and force. Too many profundities in one short article, with no resolution of any. Is there a hypomanic avoidance of feeling, a lack of grounding, a failure to be the observer—from within or outside---of one’s own mental processes. What would it be like to become/feel that part which has ‘observed’ one’s life from inside, e.g., scale this query down to a unit of one person, “Only an entity that permeates space and time -- only God -- can observe creation at all scales simultaneously.” Anybody can whang through life for the first 40 years with some way-out ideas; the crunch comes when the rocket falls to earth under the influence of the need for gravitas.
02:49 PM on 09/13/2011
I am almost a 100% atheist because I believe that it is the theist's responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that God exists. There is not an argument that can be presented with enough evidence to sway me into becoming a "believer." I do not believe however that the nature of scientific inquiry can "disprove" the argument that God exists. However, there is more than enough evidence to to believe in evoloution as a means of human existence. You can take the same arguments for the existence of God and apply them to the existence of a flying spaghetti monster and come to the conclusion that God is a construct of the human psyche.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
11:18 AM on 09/13/2011
Mr Bermeister, you've caught some flack for saying

"some scientists are still motivated to continue to experiment in the hope that a time will come when they can prove God's non-existence"

If I may make a suggestion -- to you, and to some of the other regular bloggers in HP's Religion section: I think it would go over much better if, instead of asserting that some scientists or some atheists want or believe or think this or that, you produced an actual quote from a scientist or atheist to the same effect.

Of course, it would be even better if HP were to let the scientists or atheists actually post articles in which they spoke for themselves on such topics. But I'm an atheist and I don't expect miracles.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Kevin Bermeister
01:53 PM on 09/13/2011
Its a futile use of time to engage in the name debate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10cqM5rHMgE - in any event the real issue is whether or not people have an informed idea of what God or god or the entity some people call god, or other peoples gods, or infinity or the No End actually is in a sophisticated sense and to that end I offer you another interesting video to view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra4Et3aBi0A&feature=related and request that you read my last article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-bermeister/how-atheists-and-believer_b_935744.html
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02:01 AM on 09/14/2011
we educated atheists have heard all the same trite arguments from apologists for most of our lives. its boring, easy to debunk, and full of logical falicies. science gives you a computer to voice your nonsense opinion. religion gives us war. pick one. oh and the doctors? you get to pick one as well - and your other choice is a church. as Penn says in his new book, "God, no," "If God asked you to kill your child, would you do it? If the answer is no, then you're an atheist. And if you answer yes? Someone needs to take your children away from you.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
el sistema
10:59 AM on 09/13/2011
The take on atheists is a bit off in my opinion. First of all, I dread the word atheists because it labels individuals by what they are not. Second, we're all born atheists, it's only through indoctrination that one becomes a theist.

I am never irked by what one believes to be true. I think faith and belief has it's place, but when someone supersedes the scientific method with their hypothesis, rationality will take a back seat. This is what is being portrayed as atheists being irked by unusable assertions.

Although, it's not just atheists, it's any one desiring knowledge of how things work. Creating an unknowable entity that transcends space and time is not useful and counterproductive to research.
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whirlpool
founder walnut tree congregation
01:07 PM on 09/13/2011
Your statement that we are all born atheists troubles me a bit. A newborn believes in its parents at a very visceral and instinctual level. They have not formed any ideological positions at all one way or the other.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
el sistema
01:18 PM on 09/13/2011
I define atheism as being without belief in gods. Seems reasonable to conclude we are born with a non-position toward any belief. In which case atheism is not a learned belief or a belief.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Kevin Bermeister
05:07 AM on 09/15/2011
Labels are easy to misinterpret that is the danger in writing on this subject, however your "unusable assertion" is opinionated since science, specifically in context of this article, has been unable to assert productively for atheists (a label) or theists (another label).
09:31 AM on 09/13/2011
You claim we are irked by questions like "Why is it that God prevails in this argument" and i believe that you are correct. You would be Irked if i came into your office and asked why you didn't mention Zeus more in your TP Report. Or why harry potter wasn't the main thrust of your daily life. Why don't you acknowledge that the Easter bunny has magical powers? How do those tiny people get inside my TV? Why do people claim the earth is round when we all know it isnt?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
11:06 AM on 09/13/2011
What irks me is that guys like this get blogs posted on HP and I don't.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Metcalfe
Caught at 1st. slip trying to cut
01:57 AM on 09/13/2011
"Only an entity that permeates space and time -- only God -- can observe creation at all scales simultaneously."
There's only one?

"...at bottom atheists find it painful to admit that knowledge is limited."
I've never met an atheist that found this difficult at all. We just don't fill in the gaps in our knowledge with a god.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Metcalfe
Caught at 1st. slip trying to cut
03:06 PM on 09/28/2011
It would be really good to get an answer to my question. Why do you theists tend to limit your beingsto only one. Isn't that as limiting as you accuse atheists of being?
12:49 AM on 09/13/2011
reason is best employed in outlining its own limits. if certain relativities regarding time and space make knowledge about observable things ultimately impossible, then knowledge about something unobservable like god is off-the-charts impossible. kant would have loved this article - nicely done.
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whirlpool
founder walnut tree congregation
10:50 PM on 09/12/2011
""some scientists are still motivated to continue to experiment in the hope that a time will come when they can prove God's non-existe­nce."

This is most assuredly not true. The existence or non existence of god is not a scientific question. There is no department of godology in the college of science. In all the years I was in science, I never once saw the god referenced in any science journal, any conference, any experiment or any project. Scientists may or may not believe in god and may discuss it in interviews and articles for the general public, but they simply do not allow it to contaminate their professional work one way or the other.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Kevin Bermeister
07:19 AM on 09/13/2011
For the most part the scientific fraternity have an exemplary record of impartiality. The point I was making relates to scientific conjecture beyond the realm of proof especially in the deeply theoretical sciences, where pursuit itself diverges to become sciences purpose and we loose site of the bigger picture as a result.
09:28 AM on 09/13/2011
If god is all powerful, and all knowing, and created the universe. Than everything that happens is exactly how he wanted it to be.
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whirlpool
founder walnut tree congregation
10:39 AM on 09/13/2011
Yes I have noticed that a few of the theoretical scientists have crossed the line in their popular books recently. I guess it helps with sales.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
10:26 PM on 09/12/2011
Any human understanding of God will be both flawed and limited, because human minds can only grasp human concepts.
I define God as the ultimate truth of the universe--no Hitchiker jokes, please. I do not grasp, comprehend, or understand God, but my faith does not stop me from learning as much about the universe, and hence God, as possible. Science does not stop me from trying to apply the principles of God, as revealed in scripture (Bible, in my case), to my life. Science and faith complement each other.
09:59 PM on 09/12/2011
Higgs or no Higgs, it does not prove anything about god. However, you already have the Higgs less explanation in my work, anadish.com.
09:21 PM on 09/12/2011
Dang... shut down the collider folks, nothing to see here, move along. God is finished playing games and isn't going to show us anymore secrets. Nor more apples from the Tree of Knowledge for you. We have to learn to share with the other billions of earth-like planets that are coming into their own with sentient beings.

"some scientists are still motivated to continue to experiment in the hope that a time will come when they can prove God's non-existence."

This is not what motivates science, never has been, and it still isn't to this day. And I can't foresee the word "God" or "Ultimate Consciousness" likely being included in a serious testable hypothesis at any point in the near future. So relax... nobody is out to maliciously destroy your god via experiment.
09:19 PM on 09/12/2011
You have to understand that quantum physics and relativity cannot be simplified as the author of this article attempted to simplify them... Neils Bohr himself is quoted as saying "anyone who was not shocked when they learned of quantum physics surely did not understand it." I believe that you may fall into this category. Einstein himself, the father of general and special relativity, did not believe in god. Are there phenomena that currently we cannot explain? Certainly. However, man is an innovative creature and our ability to reason may well bring us answers to those questions. It is possible that matter at the atomic level is governed by different laws of physics than the "continuous" matter that we experience. And yes, various events are perceived to occur at different times, but this has nothing to do with a "god."

There will likely never be a definitive "yes" or "no" answer to the debate as to the existence of god. Personally, I take the honest route and answer the question with an "I don't know." I'd like for god to exist, but there is simply no evidence for or against his existence.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Kevin Bermeister
07:44 AM on 09/13/2011
Perhaps not your god - watch this for a somewhat different view of reality - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra4Et3aBi0A&feature=related
12:02 AM on 09/14/2011
Mr Bermeister,

Clearly your god is the backlink.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Akla
Leave No Trace, Just a Good Impression
08:25 PM on 09/12/2011
Oh it is all too just mind boggling to understand. Therefore god must exist, because we cannot prove that he does not. Well, one can never prove a negative or whatever the quote is. But as an atheist, I am tired of the inability of religionists to accept that an atheist is not about not believing in god, but does not believe in your belief system. It is your belief system that creates and requires a god. Atheists do not need a belief system based on a creator or god or your belief system. Moral values do not arise because of god. I believe in our ability to create mutual relationships that benefit all and our ability to overcome our inborn nature to compete against each other for breeding rights, food, and shelter. Perhaps if we set aside this misguided belief in religion we could finally get past hatred and war. Oh wait, that is too complicated, too hard to understand and comprehend. We need a creator. No other answer can be.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey
10:33 AM on 09/13/2011
Steven Colbert put ot more succinctly: "There must be a God, because I don't know how stuff works."