What a surprise: An evangelical leader takes advantage of a tragic situation to utter foolish and insensitive remarks designed not to comfort the afflicted but rather to remind us why he and his people are right, and the rest of the world is wrong. Not just wrong though. Dead wrong. And not just dead wrong. "On their way to hell if they disagree" wrong.
In this case, the evangelical leader of which I speak is Jerry Newcombe, spokesperson for Truth In Action ministries. In an opinion piece published on OneNewsNow and an interview broadcast by the American Family Association, Jerry made essentially two points:
Fortunately, I don't have the luxury of dismissing Jerry as something less than human. That's because two summers ago I had the opportunity to spend a lovely afternoon with him on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., as part of a documentary on which I was working. My experience of Jerry that day led me to believe he is far smarter and far more compassionate than his remarks imply. In Frank Schaeffer's wonderful book "Sex, Mom and God," Schaeffer says, "Mom was a far nicer person than her God." I can honestly say the same thing about Jerry.
So why would a nice guy like Jerry say such hurtful things? Because he actually believes them. Otherwise, to Jerry's first point above, it would be painfully clear to him that belief in hell (not lack thereof) has motivated an appalling amount of bloodshed throughout history -- in the name of God, no less. As John Stuart Mill observed, there's a logical contradiction between a loving God who also "could make a Hell: and who could create countless generations of human beings with the certain foreknowledge that he was creating them for this fate ... Is there any moral enormity which might not be justified by imitation of such a Deity?"
To Jerry's second point, once again, his devotion to his worldview has blinded him to the glaring similarity between the god he worships and James Eagan Holmes. At some point a few months ago, Holmes determined that certain people were simply beyond redemption. And then, tragically, he took what he regarded as appropriate action. If you think about it, Jerry is arguing that one day his god will essentially do the same thing.
If you share Jerry's beliefs, such a comparison probably sounds offensive. But that doesn't make it any less true. And if you're offended by it, perhaps you should go back to your Bible and read passages like 1 Corinthians 13, which says that love is not easily angered, that it keeps no record of wrongs and that it always trusts, always hopes and always perseveres. And then explain to me how, in the light of such teachings, you can justify your belief in an angry, wrathful God who will one day dispatch all of his enemies to a fiery eternity in hell.
Better yet, why don't we all agree to stop using such shocking events to advance our theology? I understand the temptation. But right now what the victims of this tragedy need most is love, not arguments or condemnation. So unless we are suggesting ways to better love them, our neighbors or our enemies, perhaps it's best if we all maintain a respectful silence.
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The biblical God (if He exists; I report - you decide) is not just a God of Love, but a God of Justice. Also, 1 Cor. 13:6 says true love doesn't delight in evil or sinfulness but rejoices with the Truth. If you reject the One True God, the source of Love and Justice, why would you want to spend eternity with Him in Heaven? The problem is, everyone sins and does great evil. After all, do you oppose abortion? If not, you're guilty of supporting terrible torture and murder. If so, have you done enough to stop it? Probably not. Thus, every one of us most likely deserves to go straight to Hell. The Good News, however, is that Jesus Christ died for your sins so you may have eternal life and abundant goodness with Him in Heaven. So, as Jesus says in Mark 1:15, repent and believe the
Hmm. Jesus or you, Jesus or you. Not such a tough choice.
Frankly, only one person was off course and that was the shooter. Modern weapons make such things possible. Bow and arrows are not nearly as effective. People like the shooter existed before but did not have the fire power. Hard to understand and even harder to understand.
To rational people none of the reasons for the Aurora killings make any sense. The killer will stand trial and the court will make a decision what to do with him. I am glad he is behind bars and will not see the streets again. Goodbye and good riddance.
http://www.truechristianityevangelism.org/hell.html
The fact that we have no evidence that god exists, let alone that much of world's population believe in something else other than the abrahamic religions,strongly suggest that we are debating the details of fiction.
If you want to believe in Hell, its your life to waste, but please don't try to run a modern liberal democracy based on this concept.
The evidence is clear in dinosaur bones with live DNA, something impossible if they were really as old as scientists claim they are, there's lots of published and unpublished evidence for this (and the cover-up of evidence that doesn't support evolutionary humanism) go look it up.
Of course, in the name of good taste or fear of being looked at as cruel or radical, many do not share their beliefs as publically as Jerry Newcombe. But they do believe all the unsaved roast in a human oven for all eternity. It is often stated right on their websites... buried beneath all the slick marketing for their latest "God is Love" sermon series or Vacation Bible School Online Registration Portal.
This is a sickening belief held by otherwise very kind and rational people.
I'm happy that Rob Bell's book has received so much attention within the Evangelical church and I look forward to the Hellbound film this Fall.
Getting rid of hell can be a great positive step for the Christian church, and I applaud those who are working to do it. They are receiving a lot of criticism. Being labeled heretics and, sometimes, even putting their livelihoods in jeopardy.
It isn't Biblical, it is something that was added by the Catholics to make it easier to control the peasants and because many of the pagan religions they absorbed held similar beliefs (e.g. Greco-Roman Hades).
Where will hell go once these pastors get rid of it? Does satan go by the wayside too?
two completely different things. Personal transformational experience is not evidence.
I have a neighbor who claims aliens have visited him and after receiving the classic
“probing” he was told that because of their visit he will never get diabetes.
He does not have diabetes and he claims it as his proof that this experience
was real. This for him was personal transformational experience. I think his
claim is equally legitimate to any of those I have ever heard from the
faithful. It rests on the same foundation of evidence.
More generally, your claim that reality is demonstrable and repeatable seems to be used as a way of suggesting that only science tells us anything about the world. This seems to be a popular viewpoint on the HuffingtonPost, but in fact it represents the expression of a crude positivism--an outlook that was pretty well discredited 50 years ago.
Those who send their money to buy snake oil like the sound of this sort of snake oil, and Jerry likes new cars. It's unpleasant, but it works great for Jerry and his CPAs.
That sure sounds like a humanistic argument, not a religious one. If you're willing to jettison theology using secular philosophy, then post hoc justifying it using selective scripture, I don't see what the point of the religion is. A secular humanist who likes talking about Jesus.
Hell is a biblical dogma, it's something that can not be debated, especially the literal view of it (not as literal lake of fire). Jesus mentions it 15 times, thus if Christ is who he says he is, God, then it's not to be debated.
I agree people Christian should not condemn others to hell, that's not our job, but we would expect our closest loved ones to tell us when we are heading down a path of ruin; therefore it can be a great act of love when someone says you are leading a life that can take you to hell.
Like John Stuart Mill, your understanding of Hell (forgive the language), needs to be redefined.
If you would like to research the Church's position on Hell I would suggest following this link. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm
-Peace be with you.
I want to point out something you missed, though.
"At some point a few months ago, Holmes determined that certain people were simply beyond redemption. And then, tragically, he took what he regarded as appropriate action. If you think about it, Jerry is arguing that one day his god will essentially do the same thing."
Actually, Jerry's god ALREADY did that. He flooded the entire planet, killing every person, bird and beast except those he saved on Noah's ark. Compared to that, Holmes was practically *merciful".
Noah's descendants worship Jehovah for sparing them. Maybe the descendants of the Aurora survivors will form a cult that prays to James Eagan Holmes in gratitude for sparing them from the disaster his visited upon the others.
THAT is just how sick Jerry's belief system is. He worships the ultimate expression of "might makes right," and has the audacity to claim that makes HIM more ethical than people who show far more compassion and morality than his god ever did.
Kevin, you're far kinder to Jerry than he deserves. He may have a pleasant facade, but his confused sense of truth and morality makes him as dangerously unpredictable as the bestial god he worships.
Regarding the origin of the flood story, you present an intriguing theory. I don't have enough knowledge to comment on it directly.
My own explanation would be that the Noah legend was simply a popular story (perhaps because it explained rainbows to children) that the Hebrews couldn't suppress. So instead, they co-opted it and put Jehovah in the leading role. I understand Bible scholars say that's the case for the Samson story, too.
Similarly, Christians took over the Germanic Yule winter solstice festival to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and likewise conscripted the spring rebirth festival of the pagan dawn goddess Ostara, aka Eostre, as "Easter". These holidays were so popular Christianity even had to accommodate their pagan imagery, like evergreen trees and holly (things that even winter didn't kill) and egg-carrying bunnies (both symbols of fertility and the new life brought by spring).
Anyway, if the Noah legend was incorporated to teach Jews "not to abandon their faith in the face of persecution", what of prophets like Isaiah who clearly described Jehovah intentionally punishing the Hebrews for their spiritual failings? I thought the entire Babylonian captivity was rationalized as God using foreigners to teach his people a lesson.
Romans 6:7:
For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.
If human courts do not uphold double jeopardy why would God? God who can rewind and forward-wind anybody's life and give the correct judgment, and yet states unequivocally that both the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected.
These people do not tell the truth about God and they are they ones that heap condemnation on their own heads.