Once again, it would seem that the Bush Administration and their minions will be permitted to wipe the slate clean of their past criminal acts. This time around it will be for torture.
Republicans are not stupid, folks. When they intend to stretch the parameters of power, break the law, do bad or even evil things, they are smart enough to take along some hostages. And sadly, during the Bush years, those hostages too often included enough Democrats to ensure the Republicans' speedy, slippery getaway from the crime and any future liability tied to it.
The first time around when it came to bearing responsibility for starting the war in Iraq (a pre-emptive, illegal war that had no justification) Bush Republicans exonerated themselves by saying that Congress voted for the war and, therefore, bore equal responsibility for it.
Everybody's at fault, therefore nobody's at fault. Nifty little argument that apparently worked when it came to the war in Iraq.
After all, nobody was truly held accountable for the thousands killed, hundreds of thousands wounded, billions spent, and bad reputation we Americans encumbered ourselves with since the debacle known as Iraq.
Yet, in all fairness, back in 2002-03 too many Democrats were actually stunned, silent, and blindly willing to follow along to get along. Readily painting their hands red with blood and eagerly blindfolding their eyes in the process. And shouldn't Democrats take a lesson and learn from that? Wise up a bit, if you will. I mean, was their support of the invasion of Iraq due to their own true conviction for pre-emptive war? I doubt it. Or was their vote cast because it was politically expedient? Seems more likely. Or maybe because they were just plain-old scared? For whatever reason, how did all those votes turn out for the Democrats in the end? Not well.
Sadly, too few Democratic (and Republican) Senators and Congressmen took the time to actually read the classified reports discussing the "real" threat posed by WMD. Just like far too many were disinterested in really getting to the bottom of the horrible, swirling rumors of unlawful and inhumane torture of enemy combatants and/or the illegal wiretapping allegedly being carried out within the US. These were all ripe and worthy issues that were screaming for oversight during the Bush years. And yet they were, for the most part, left alone.
Too many Congressmen and Senators--both Democrat and Republican-- were negligent in their duties and merely followed the advice of their young staffers, their political strategists, and their party "leadership." They mechanically fell in line. Some blamed being in the helpless minority for their inaction. What could they do? They weren't in power. Others claimed that to do anything otherwise would be unpatriotic. Leaders they were not.
Now with the advent of the Obama Administration, we find renewed calls for an investigation into the acts of torture that were authorized and committed during the Bush years. Indeed, for a few days it seemed as if the threat of very real accountability--maybe even criminal liability--loomed on the horizon. Not so fast.
Once again we find Republicans with their backs against the wall, parading their poor, pathetic Democrat hostages, anew. All over the news, it's the same mantra and veiled threat: But the Democrats knew about it, too. The Democrats have blood on their hands, too. If you prosecute us, then you have to prosecute them, too.
And with dutiful tail between the legs, we find Democrats one by one shrinking off into the background. Changing the subject, their story, their role in it, and even their interest in getting to the bottom of it. Shameful, really.
When are the Democrats going to learn? Get a backbone? And stop being held hostage?
Look, a lot of really bad things went down and went wrong during the Bush years. Unbridled, unchecked, and unconstitutional Executive Power is a BAD thing. And admittedly, far too many Democrats (and American citizens, and journalists, too, for that matter) sat idly back either too afraid to speak out or too willing to go along. But when the facts bear out, these Democrats and others will own a vastly smaller amount of responsibility than those who stood behind the creation of it all. Democrats need to remember this in answering the current, clarion call for an investigation into the torture practices and procedures employed by the Bush Administration.
This torture or so called "enhanced interrogation techniques" we have inflicted on these human beings will remain a stigma on those who either have ever approved it, have authorized it, committed it, or even haven't yet denounced it.
ANY thing that would cause ANY kind of pain is by definition a torture.
Waterboarding by definition is torture under our very own laws, actually we executed people who committed waterboarding.
The punishment for Waterboarding any human being is the death penalty under our own laws and under the laws of almost all other countries.
I urge every one of us (the good American people) to do whatever he/she can do to bring justice (contact your representative, contact your congressman, contact president Obama, contact any and all forms of media available to) so those criminals who have ever authorized, approved, committed, or participated in anyway in this clear torturing acts case (or cases) pay for their heinous crimes even if it would take years or even decades they should pay eventually for their crime, the most precious American values and laws have been brazenly violated, the whole world knows this fact now.
is not the same as the conspiracy to promote evil.
Let's hear it all.
My first thought was, how can one party be dismissed for following what they considered a lawful order, when another party can be prosecuted for issuing what they thought was that same legal order? You see, you can't have it both ways. That argument of "just following orders" didn't hold up well for certain groups after World War II, why should it now.
Secondly, knowledge of a crime, regardles of whether its classified or not, is no excuse not to prosectue. Powerful people in the opposing party were briefed and knew all about this. If the left feels these torture procedures are so bad, than all who knew of are responsible and need to face justice.
Third, you better hope Democrats rule the White House for a long time. Because you know that people on the right are not going to forget this. So any future Administration will be subject to this at the whim of the opposing base.
quote:
Everybody's at fault, therefore nobody's at fault. Nifty little argument that apparently worked when it came to the war in Iraq.
After all, nobody was truly held accountable for the thousands killed, hundreds of thousands wounded, billions spent, and bad reputation we Americans encumbered ourselves with since the debacle known as Iraq.
/quote
Republicans have, thus far, been able to make the argument with a straight face that the false "information" that led to the illegal invasion of Iraq was "a mistake" or to be more accurate, an incredibly improbably sequence of coincident mistakes, all supporting the same conclusion, contrary to the reality of all facts. When the connection of torture to "back filling" the al Qaida / Iraq connection, the political problems Democrats have had supporting prosecution will vanish. The electorate will not be significantly divided once it becomes clear that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Bush needed to be able to torture so they could fabricate "confessions" from suspected al Qaida members of "an operational relationship" with Iraq, or from Iraqis of "an operational relationship" with al Qaida, whichever came first.
Talk about a place to reduce spending and inject some much needed regulation of an agency. The Pentagon has been acting like it's it's own branch of government for decades and many of our elected representatives are owned by the Pentagon and their contractors.
Both parties do own some responsibility for the torture, but only one administration orchestrated and instituted the policy as the status quo to begin with...that would be the Bush Administration.
And as our laws state, they are the ones who should be paying the penalty. Every crime can have a multiple of contributing factors, and you may want to blame the Dems for standing by, but the bottom line is that it is the Republican party that has chosen torture as a policy and they are the ones who deserve the lion's share of the blame and punishment.
It's a sad, sad indictment of where we stand as a society.
When the Supreme Court ruled the GWB was our President in
2000, I said to myself on that very night "We're going back into Iraq
to finish what President GHWB started."
If I figured this out in Dec. 2000-- and you mean to tell me educated Dems
in the House didn't know any better than I--an average citizen?
I don't buy that.
I think the Dems who voted for the Iraq war wanted to look *strong* and *patriotic.*
They went along to get along as did most of the MSM.
I recall only a handful of media personalities being opposed to the war--Phil Donahue, Bill Mahr to name a couple.
Yes, Bush and Cheney are mostly to blame but every House member who voted for this war is guilty too.
Also, thoseDems and Repugs who did not speak out against torture and turned a blind eye are guilty too--not as guilty as Bush/Cheney--but they do have blood on their hands too.
For those political leaders who feel we need to "move on" and sweep this torture issue under the carpet, they need to be VOTED OUT OF OFFICE.
I don't want to "move on" until justice is served.
We The People need to demand accountability from our leaders. Period.
Now, don't blame everyone of course. Neither Democrats or Republicans, for not all deserve to be blamed. But that's for another post.
this biggest problem are the spitwads supporting either party. once the parties realize they can't rely on the usual sycophants the game is over.
I don't recall anyone blaming Republicans per se and I am not afraid to say anyone condoning torture is guilty. Don't look at me though, I've been against it from day one. I'm embarrassed to say I love "24" though. : |
IIRC, wasn't there a super duper secret briefing of the Intelligence committee in which they (the committee) were prohibited from revealing anything at all they were briefed on AND prohibited from even mentioning the subject matter, lest they be removed from their positions and charged with treason? They may have even been prohibited from saying that there even was a briefing.
Remember they were able to read their email listen to their phone conversations,
the whole nine yards.
When I look back over the last decade, I don't see the prevention of terrorist activity on American soil, quite the opposite. Torture is just a method of keeping the troops motivated, and when I read your comments, it seems to have been working for quite a while.
And certainly the war in Iraq was a huge mistake and another war that should never have been started.
A war based on lies that was fought incompetantly. Now we're beginning to see what was also being done behind closed doors, and it's the kind of sub-human sadisitic practices I would never have thought could be done by our government (no matter which party is in power). Not only that -
but Bush flat-out lied to the American people more than once, and said that America does not torture.
I'm sure Reagan is a hero of yours. You should educate yourself, and check out what Reagan said and believed about torture.