Obama Won At Saddleback, In the Eyes Of This Evangelical

Sam Brownback echoed a lot of what you can read on the Web about the Saddleback faith forum performance of candidates Obama and McCain Saturday. Brownback writes that, with his confident appearance, McCain has won the evangelical vote. I disagree strongly with this assessment. I am an evangelical Christian, and I think Obama did very well during the Saddleback Forum and that he was much more genuine and thoughtful in his responses than was John McCain.

McCain was very curt in his replies to questions of faith, which showed me that he lacked depth and judgment to lead America in general and especially people of faith in America. He said that we must destroy evil, which, as we all know, is not possible in this world per the Bible. I mean in Eph 6:10-13, it says, "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand."

So, we cannot eradicate evil in this world (that is what heaven will be, a world without evil...a world communing with God...a perfect world without sin), and, as such, I am very confused by John McCain's answer to the question of whether or not evil exists and what we must do about it (McCain said that we need to "destroy" it). Obama's response was much more in line with the Bible (we must "combat" it, he said). Ultimately, God is in control, and all we can do on this earth is fight (read: combat) evil (God does the real work and makes us win all battles).

Moreover, when McCain said that his greatest moral failure was the break-up of his first marriage, he left out why that was his greatest moral failure -- read: sin (the reason, of course, was his extra-marital affair with Cindy, his current wife). On the other hand, Obama squarely addressed his youthful sins and explained what those sins taught him about his character (i.e. what he learned -- that he needed to be outward focused rather than selfish). This is the type of repentance in my mind that the Bible teaches us as Christians to do.

So, basically, I am shocked by the coverage and pundits responses to the faith forum. I think Obama showed that he is truly a person of faith. McCain, on the other hand, appeared superficial and a person of weak Christian faith.

Moreover, about Supreme Court Justices, I do think that is an important issue, but overturning Roe v. Wade is not going to help lower the pregnancy rate and will likely only marginally help decrease the abortion rate and simultaneously will likely put endanger many womens' lives. So, while I am very opposed to abortion on a personal level (except under extreme cases like rape and incest), I think that abortion should remain legal. Otherwise, many women will die; it is even possible that as many women will die as babies would not be aborted. Moreover, if Roe v. Wade were repealed, America would need to increase its jails for women who tried to have abortions (and this seems like a poor use of our tax dollars and a travesty to many womens' lives). In my opinion, as Christians, we need to try to decrease abortions in particular and unwanted pregnancy in general through our personal evangelism and outreach to people that are struggling spiritually by showing them the word of God and God's love for each and every one of us.

Unfortunately, you cannot legislate morality and since you cannot, abortion is not something that the federal or state government can legislate. Reducing the number of abortions is primarily the role of citizens at large and the community in general and, only ancillary, the role of government through making more reasonable options available (e.g. US adoption process more streamlined, providing women with a better safety net if they have kids out of wedlock -- like daycare).

As for gay marriage, same sex couples should have the same rights to see their significant other in the hospital, etc, but their union should not be called marriage. Marriage is defined in the Bible as a union between 1 man and 1 woman (and that is why the man will leave his parents to be united to his wife and they will become 1 flesh).

Lastly, it is important to point out that abortion and gay marriage are just 2 issues, which the Republican Party (of which I have been a member my whole life up until this election) has used tirelessly with social conservatives and evangelicals as wedge issues. Other important issues for Christians are how we care for those less fortunate, how we care for the elderly and the sick, how we care for our environment (which God has graciously given to us), and how we work to create a more peaceful society -- i.e. less war like the one that McCain favors in Iraq. I think Barack Obama's viewpoints are similar to mine while John McCain's viewpoints are not.

I am a younger voter (in my mid-30s), and I think many of the young evangelicals feel as I do. Many of us are not part of the religious right (even though we have voted with the religious right for Republicans in all elections we were eligible for in our lifetime) but are strong people of faith, and we are discouraged by the lies that politicians have said over and over to try to get our vote. George W Bush has destroyed the Republican Party, and while he said that he was a Christian, he is obviously the furthest thing from a true Christian (he is more like a Pharisee or Sadducee). I fear that John McCain is the same thing (a wolf in sheep's clothing who claims to be a Christian, when he is really not a Christian).

So, I believe with my whole heart that the evangelical vote will be a critical swing vote this election cycle, and I think Obama will win a large percentage of it. McCain will win the religious right hands-down (e.g. the Dobson's and the Perkins' of the world). Obama will likely split the remaining (which is a large majority I believe) of the remaining "values voters" / evangelicals. Moreover, since we evangelicals have consistently voted Republican, every vote that Obama gets from that column comes at the expense of McCain. In my opinion, this will be a significant reason that Obama will have a commanding victory over McCain in November in not just blue and purple states but even some red states. I predict that this will be a generational election. Those states with an average age under 40 or 50 will likely go blue while those states with a large retired population will likely go red.

Comments

[ChrisAndy]

The article states that we can't legislate morality, yet we legislate based on moral views all the time. We have legislated the moral values of human life and property through laws and as such we punish the crimes of murder and theft. The thirteenth and fifteenth amendments respectively are clear examples of legislating a certain moral view that slavery is wrong and that the right to vote should be afforded to everyone regardless of race or color. So how is it exactly that we do not or can not legislate morality?

[JLee]

Very insightful and intelligent post. It's very interesting to me that your views on abortion are very much in line with mine, an agnostic liberal woman unaffiliated with organized religion. I, too, am opposed to abortion on a personal level but believe it should be legal for the sake of health and safety. At the same time, I also support efforts to decrease abortion that do not include threats or bullying. I think our only main differences are that I am probably much more supportive of contraception as a preventive to abortion, and that I envision a greater role for government in efforts to reduce abortion numbers.

I also wholeheartedly agree on one main point--that morality cannot and should not be legislated. Legislating morality was at the heart of the evangelical movement for many years, an idea that is unconstitutional and fundamentally opposed to the diversity and plurality at the heart of America. It's nice to know that not all evangelicals are the Pharisees you speak of, and I think voices like yours will go a long way to change public perceptions of what evangelical Christians are like.

As for your prediction of November, I really, really hope they come true--to the point I will be actually praying for the first time in a long time. ;)

[schicklett3]

And I'm going to go one step further while we're on the subject of religion:
I think the Sean Hannity's of the world, who profess to be such religious people, are doing a horrible horrible sin when they create and spread hate. They know exactly what they're doing and they will face their worldly sins. They gleefully spread hate and lies about Senator O, and they're in for a rude awakening someday.

[schicklett3]

This is exactly the way I felt after the forum - exactly!
I also used the phrase "McCain is a wolf in sheeps clothing" and I truly believe he is.
Anyway, I'm glad i finally got to read the words of someone that felt the exact same way as me, and I have a feeling many others feel the same way after watching the forum.

Brilliant article.

[Head-Liner]

This is a tremendous article in which i hope many many people get to read your article and really think about their own faith and how they plan to vote. We have many issues that we all need to address and if we continue doing the same things with the same players we are destined to get further off track. I believe Obama is a sincere leader and is the best person to bring this country back together to work towards a common goal that includes helping everyone realize or get on track to realize the American Dream once again.

Obama 08

[preachergirl]

Lisa,

Thank you for being another voice in the wilderness. As a minister, I was simply astonished at not only McCain's behavior, but more so at Pastor Warren, who seems to understand that a shift is happening in the evangelical movement and he wants to be the one to fill the void and wants to become the next Dobson. What hypocrisy! I saw one with genuine faith and two hypocrits pandering to the other hypocrits, I'm ashamed that they call themselves christians, but then again, the Sadducees and Pharisees called themselves christians as well, yet everything they did was the absolute opposite of what Jesus would do, and they will receive the same rebuke as stated in Matthew 7:21-23.

The bottom line, if the American people don't wake up and begin to think for themselves, no matter what group you may belong to or no group at all, if we keep going the way we have been, rich getting richer, middle class disappearing, poor getting poorer, we all go down with the ship when it begins to sink. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, this country is at the proverbial fork in the road, and making the wrong turn will have consequences beyond our imagination for all of us.

[CitizenInformed]

Great insight.

It would be so wonderful if in this election, your group of Evangelicals takes the torch from the religious-right, while the progressives, independents, and liberals take the torch from the conservative-right. The country could then finally focus on substantive improvements for US workers, the environment, foreign oil dependence, etc.

[foxbat]

Thanks for this article. I've stated before that, in broader terms, while Obama might not have "won" the live audience, I think he made inroads with the TV audience, and in particular, independents and non-evangelicals. I suspected that he may have also gotten a greater level of respect with regard to evangelicals too, so it's nice to hear some evangelicals say exactly that.

While I don't believe that making inroads on a single event like this automatically equates directly into a changed vote or a picked up vote, I think it can contribute to making folks more receptive to future messages. Seldom does a boxer take out an opponent with a single body blow, but body blows soften up the other boxer so that other shots can get in. I'm sure several people who saw the forum said, "I'm still voting for McCain," but I would also venture a guess that there were some that said, "Hey, Obama's not the anti-Christian that some have made him out to be. As a matter of fact, he DOES have a strong faith." Those folks won't show up in the recent polls, so everyone who points to no bump for Obama after the forum as an indication that he lost are somewhat short-sighted. It's very likely though, that by opening up the ears of some folks, that actions down the road, like the debates or other appearances, may garner votes. Seeds are sown not for today, but for tomorrow.

[jasondrew]

Amen! Amen! Amen!

Thank you for showing us that days of the shallow-faith, blindly sputtering "values voter" may be numbered. It's about time that people of faith do some real thinking about where their values really lie and stop allowing themselves to be led around by the nose by the Pharisee Conservatives who would guilt them into supporting their perverse political agenda.

[Criticalthinktank07]

Can someone explain why the candidates faith has played more of an important role in this election than any other, with the exception of when John F. Kenneday ran? What happened to separation of church and state. And my other question is, do people honestly believe that if a candidate has a less popular faith ie. Buddhism, Bahai or Scientology they would not be and effective leader???

[booksnmore4you]

The only thing more frightening than McCain's replies at Saddleback was the response of so many Christians. Over the past 30 years, we have seen the neo-conning of Christians' worldviews and it is a travesty.

[Criticalthinktank07]

Let me begin by saying that I am glad that I am not the only christian who read between the lines at the faith forum. To me Obama was organic in his responses, and they were in my opinion insightful, as he has proven to be on several occasions. On the other hand, John McCain seemed arrogant, and overly confident. His answers seemed to play to what he thought evangelicals wanted to hear. In addition, Pastor Rick seemed all too happy to concur with and justify the validity of his answers. (Which saddens me, because it seemed as if it were orchastrated to give McCain the advantage.­) Lastly, when each candidate spoke of their transgressions, Senator Obama seemed contrite, as if he learned from the error of his ways; but McCain was very matter of fact as if he was prepared for that questioned, like he been briefed by his staff or someone from the church. Lastly, everyone has been so concerned with Obama's faith, that no one has taken the time to investigate McCain's. Why hasn't anyone pressed him on why his wife and children have been baptised ,yet, he has not??

[dagnew]

Beautifully written, and my sentiments, exactly!

P.S. I'm 60 years old and voting for O.

[elr50]

I am over 40, as are most of my friends. I only know two people voting for McCain, and they are over 70. do not assume that "older folks" will vote red. I know very few who will.

[BTJ46]

Thank you for an excellent posting and especially for focusing on issues of substance rather than the issues of style that have distracted much of the discussion of this event.
You are right in singling out McCain's answer on the question of Evil as particularly un-Christian. The arrogance, pride and presumption that Evil can be defeated is what led us into Bush's war with Iraq in the first place and to much evil throughout history.
Another point in the discussion for assessing McCain's sincerity has to do with his answer to the request to name three key sources of wisdom that he would look to for advice. He named Congressman John Lewis, who is a real hero of the Civil Rights movement, a leader in the movement against the war in Vietnam and who has been a Congressman from Georgia for more than 20 years. The problem is that, according to John Lewis, in their 20 years in Washington together, he has never had an extended conversation with John McCain and John McCain has never sought his advice on any issue.
There is a connection here between the bluster about defeating evil and lying in church about where you seek wisdom -- that is very un-Christian and should be offensive to anyone paying the kind of attention you have.