The Land Of 10,000 Lakes And Even More Guns
I just visited Minnesota, which is not only a beautiful state, but an interesting one. It's the state whose former Governor was a professional wrestler, and whose next Senator might be a former comedian. And they've got a gun law there that is, well, quite astounding. Adults are allowed to carry guns almost anywhere. If a place of business doesn't want people to come in toting their weapons, they have to put up a sign saying they ban guns from the premises. If there are no signs, guns are welcome. The reason I was in Minnesota was to visit my sister-in-law who was in the hospital. Sure enough, on the outside of the hospital, was a sign saying I couldn't bring a gun inside. Good idea. Can you imagine what it would be like if people were allowed to bring guns into a hospital? Think of that unhappy patient: "You call this a good nose job, Doc?" BAM!
Out of curiosity, I emailed the state of Minnesota and asked them if it was legal for me to walk into a bank with a gun. Their response was that it was legal unless that bank had a sign that specifically prohibited people from doing so. A bank! And this was the law!
Of course, there are exceptions to this law. People can't bring their guns to school property, jails, or courthouses. My favorite exception is that people are prohibited from carrying their guns onto a field while hunting big game by archery, except when hunting bear. Trust me, I'm never going to put that exception to the test.
On the other hand, there are some circumstances in which you can carry a gun and don't even need a permit. For example, you can carry a gun to and from work, which I'm sure makes "road rage" a little more exciting for everybody.
The official name of the law is the Minnesota Citizen's Personal Protection Act of 2003. To me, a personal protection act is putting on some deodorant. Obviously, those who passed this law believe that people are safer if more of them carry guns. So everywhere I went, I kept looking around me for people with weapons. I didn't see any. Then my brother explained that this was probably because, although it's not required, people are allowed to carry concealed weapons.
I never understand the idea of concealed weapons for "good guys." If you feel your carrying a gun is a deterrent against a bad guy committing a crime against you, wouldn't you want that bad guy to see your gun? If you're wearing your gun in a holster like old-time cowboys, a mugger will probably move onto somebody else. But if you've got that gun hidden in your pants, how is that going to stop a bad guy from trying to hurt you?
Once I learned about this concealed weapons thing, I was checking out everybody, wondering if they were secretly carrying a gun. "How about those three noisy girls behind me in the movie theater? Were they packing lead?" "What about the busty woman on the other side of the restaurant. Did she have a gun in her bra or was she just glad to see me?" "What about that minister striding towards me? Was he a Gunslinger for God?" It makes for a somewhat uneasy visit.
Yet, some people don't think a Minnesota-type law has gone far enough. The governor of Georgia, Sonny Perdue, wants guns to be allowed at public areas of the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. "Sonny" said, "If my wife wanted to carry a gun, if she was going from the parking lot, walking from one of those far parking lots to pick up a grandchild or something like that, I think that's a good idea, yes." Sure, who doesn't think it makes perfect sense to pack heat when picking up your grandchildren?
Has the world gone completely insane? There's a governor who thinks it's OK for people to carry guns at the airport, but we're not allowed to carry a bottle of shampoo onto the plane.
Lloyd Garver has written for many television shows, ranging from "Sesame Street" to "Family Ties" to "Home Improvement" to "Frasier." He has also read many books, some of them in hardcover. He can be reached at lloydgarver@gmail.com. Check out his website at lloydgarver.com and his podcasts on iTunes.
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Ummm....gu
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FWIW, I hold an NC carry license that is valid in ~33 states. To qualify for it, I had to pass a Federal background check, state background check, mental health records check, get fingerprinted and have my prints run by the FBI (clean), take a class on self-defense law using a state-approved curriculum, pass a written test on same at my local sheriff's office, and demonstrate that I can competently handle and shoot a handgun, live fire. I also shoot competitively, have been an avid shooter for over two decades, and could pass most state police firearms quals with ease.
I don't have data for Minnesota, but in Chicago, NINETY-SEVEN PERCENT of murder suspects so far this year have prior arrest records.
http://ego
Personally, I would be much more concerned about those who can't legally own a gun but do so anyway, and who don't feel they need a license in order to carry it illegally.
"I grew up in Chicago, went to college at Berkeley, and got my Masters at Northwestern. Then I followed my dream to become a serious writer by moving to Los Angeles and getting a job writing questions and "ad-lib" jokes for the game show, "Hollywood Squares."
Ah, that explains everything.
"Can you imagine what it would be like if people were allowed to bring guns into a hospital? Think of that unhappy patient: "You call this a good nose job, Doc?" BAM!"
Right, because someone who would ignore the laws against murder would obey a hospital policy banning guns.
"Out of curiosity, I emailed the state of Minnesota and asked them if it was legal for me to walk into a bank with a gun. Their response was that it was legal unless that bank had a sign that specifically prohibited people from doing so. A bank! And this was the law!"
Right, becuase an armed robber would see the "no guns" sign and say "Oh darn, I guess I can't rob this place. That would be against the rules."
"Once I learned about this concealed weapons thing, I was checking out everybody, wondering if they were secretly carrying a gun. "How about those three noisy girls behind me in the movie theater? Were they packing lead?" "What about the busty woman on the other side of the restaurant. Did she have a gun in her bra or was she just glad to see me?" "What about that minister striding towards me? Was he a Gunslinger for God?" It makes for a somewhat uneasy visit."
That's what criminals will have to be wondering as well, which is the whole point of the law. To keep the criminal guessing.
"
I couldn't help but notice the author did not say that Minnesota is more dangerous because of the widespread gun ownership. He just didn't like seeing guns so that seemed to be the worst thing he could say about this state. There were no stats comparing this gun owning, crime ridden, violence prone hellhole to the peaceful anti gun cities such as Chicago or DC.
Come down to Chicago where the banks are safe because nobody is allowed to carry a gun into them.
Except the guards and the people there to rob the bank.
Well, after 5 years it doesn't seem to be a problem. Your concerns just didn't materialize. No action has been taken to reverse the liberalization of concealed carry. Same for the nearly 40 other states with very liberal concealed carry.
No kidding on the shampoo/firearm dichotomy. "This is a robbery! I've got a twelve-ounce bottle of shampoo!" "Ohmygod, that's Pantene Extra Volumizing with conditioner! He's serious!" If shampoo is outlawed, only outlaws will have shampoo! Car wrecks kill more people a day than my Head & Shoulders with the cooling mint sensation!
The stated logic about quanitities of liquids in carry on luggage makes sense--you have a team of hijackers with components of bombs that are themselves appear innocous--these components can be combined in the waiting area or plane into something that can be dangerous--don't forget TSA employyees are not the sharpest tools in the shop.
Minnesota is eminently sensible. I'm glad to see the trend is spreading to other states.
Oh, by the way, Good Ol' England is a safe place for you to live-- as long as you carry a knife for protection these days! I'd rather trust my luck to a pistol than a knife-- but that's just me.
"Spreading" is probably the wrong word; 48 out of the 50 states allow state-licensed individuals to carry, and ~33 of them are "shall-issue," i.e. based on statuatory rather than arbitrary criteria.
Only 2 states (Wisconsin and Illinois) do not have concealed carry licensure, and 2 states (Vermont and Alaska) do not even require a license in order to carry.
Mr. Garver: You said, "Once I learned about this concealed weapons thing, I was checking out everybody, wondering if they were secretly carrying a gun."
You just stated the deterrent effect of concealed carry laws. Hopefully, any potental mugger or mass murderer in the crowd would be wondering the same thing and move on to a "gun-free zone" where people are known to be "sitting ducks" as they have in the past. Maybe more of these publicized shootings will show people like you that these shooting only occur where citizens have been denied the right of self-defense by allowing only criminals to have guns.
Concealed carry laws not only deter criminals from attacking the licensed gun owner, but they provide a residual safety to even you.
You stated the advantage of concealed carry quite well--it is much more risky for criminals if they DO NOT know who is armed because it is not heathly for criminals to select armed victims (and if the carry is concealed the first indication will be the draw).
Like at that school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas where the kid simply set up a sniper's nest outside the school and picked off other students after pulling a false fire alarm? It would really help if you started thinking in terms of tactics rather than technology.
"Like at that school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas..
Exactly what does your example have to do with concealed carry?
Was the school not a "gun-free zone"?
Are you attempting to claim that concealed carry is a failure because the shooter in this situation was not stopped?
It would really help if you started thinking in logic rather than anti-gun blather.
I can't imagine anyone thinking it a bad idea to be able to protect yourself and your grandkids! Why would you??
Semper fi
Semper Fi what are you scared of? Why don't you have any faith in the goodness of America? Do grannies in America really need to carry a gun to protect their grandchildren? If that is true what does it say about our country? Are you so paranoid that every other American you run into on your daily journey through life is a threat? It really is to bad that a big tough marine like yourself feels that they cannot function in the USA without carrying a weapon for some unknown threat that is about to strike you down.
Semper Fi I wonder with you being so worried about your personal safety do you wear a seatbelt and drive at the posted speed limit? Do you drink alcohol? Do you smoke? Do you eat at McDonalds? All these things are much more likely to kill you than some pimply faced teen with a bad attitude.
Thank you for the kind words. There may have been a time when I was young enough, and dumb enough, to take on an unknown aggressor with my hands. Thankfully, I grew up, and wised up. Its time for you to do the same. Unless, of course, you are making a funny?!
I carry a firearm for two reasons. First, its my job. Second, I carry for the same reasons most do. The world is an unknown! The people you see in the mall are not known to me, any more than I am known to them. I hope never to have to draw my pistol, but am prepared to do so if the need arises.
What will you do, besides die?
Semper fi
Open up your Yellow Pages to the section labeled "Martial Arts." Call any of the numbers listed there. They'll teach you how to protect yourself and your grandkids. They'll even teach you how to take a gun off somebody, and not even wait until you're a black belt to do so, because guns don't think; people do.
BlackJAC: You said, "They'll teach you how to protect yourself and your grandkids.
Your way may have worked in the old days but is not effective against current criminals who shoot first and take the rings and wallets off the your dead body.
Until we fix the revolving doors on our prisons and stop allowing them to be training grounds for street gangs, the only solution is to fight fire with fire. The availability of guns is not the problem so gun control is not the solution. The goal should be to ban criminals instead of guns or at least preserve the right of self defense by the best means available as the Supreme Court decided.
The martial arts idea sounds really cute but there are a few problems with your scenario.
First of all if it was that easy to take a gun away from a criminal then our police would not need weapons. You also have to get within reach of the bad guy.
How many years of training does it take before a martial artist is the equal of an armed felon?
Not everyone has an aptitude for marital arts, can afford lessons or is healthy enough for the sport. On the other hand a 65 year old grandmother can probaly squeeze a 6 lb trigger. I doubt the same 65 year old grandmother could disarm a 30 year old 250 lb career criminal that has spent the last few years working out in prison.
One of the several college girls that was raped and killed this past year had training in two different martial arts. Sadly she was unable to fight off her armed attacker. Look up the Meredith Emerson / Gary Hilton case. Hilton was a 61 year old man and his martial artist victim fought hard but could not beat him. I doubt she would have taken a gun from him. This case really pisses me off because it is a prime example of why disarming law abiding citizens is foolish and dangerous.
What a silly reply. The use of martial arts to defend oneself means, implicitly, that one must come into direct contact with an aggressor, no?! How stupid it would be for anyone to deliberately ask for direct contact with an unknown aggressor! Please think before you comment.
Semper fi
Martial arts is going to protect me from assailants:
"Like at that school shooting in Jonesboro, Arkansas where the kid simply set up a sniper's nest outside the school and picked off other students after pulling a false fire alarm"?
Really?
There is a place, and there is a time for martial arts.
Same is true for a firearm.
Neither excludes the need for the other.
I took martial arts training for many years. While we did many different types of drills to disarm someone with a knife or gun, without exception every instructor I ever had told us quite frankly "If someone has a gun, do what they say. Don't be an idiot".
When making statments either on firearms or on hand-to-hand combat, it is far more useful if one has some experience in the matter.
McCain is about to pick that governor as his veep!
Oh, Lloyd, you must get out more. Come across the border next time you're up this way to my state.
Here in northern Wisconsin they have a gun show every year in my 9 year old son's elementary school cafeteria. The local gun club donates half of the door proceeds to make sure that no child is left behind.
Get this one! Our Republican controlled state legislature, in all of their glorious wisdom, has passed a law that makes it legal for people who are legally blind to HUNT DEER WITH A RIFLE!
I love that Gunslinger For God line! Great post.
I'm against anything that increases the number of guns. Yet, I wonder about that deterrent factor. In the 1980s I lived in Las Vegas. Just a couple miles outside of town I saw a gas station owner wearing a sidearm cowboy-style. It was an amazing sight to the young New Jersey boy that I was, but I figured it was a good warning to a would-be robber.
Why are you against anything that increases the number of guns? Are you also against anything that increases the number of butcher knives, or baseball bats? How about automobiles, which are involved in more deaths per year than firearms! How about doctors, who account for more deaths than the top four instruments combined.
Please curb your phobias.
Semper fi
Mike--might I suggest you get in touch with either an instructor certified by the NRA as a start and then move on to a course with Massad Ayoob or one of the other classes and see if you are still as afraid of guns.
What constitutes legal blindness? Must it be a complete inability to see? Legal blindness, for your information, does not mean an inability to see. It means an inability to the extent that a person is considered legally handicapped and eligible for public assistance. I know a good number of people who are legally blind, but function very well with glasses, albeit with rather extravagant prescriptions. Please learn what your terms mean.
Semper fi
"Here in northern Wisconsin they have a gun show every year in my 9 year old son's elementary school cafeteria. The local gun club donates half of the door proceeds to make sure that no child is left behind."
And this is bad? How so?
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