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Malou Innocent

Malou Innocent

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Protests in Afghanistan: Our Excuse to Get Out

Posted: 04/ 4/11 12:58 PM ET

General David Petraeus, the head of American forces in Afghanistan, has emphasized the importance of winning the "hearts and minds" of Afghans by treating them and their culture with respect. Pentagon officials may want to reexamine that assumption, but not for the reason you might think.

Evangelical pastor Terry Jones, author of the book Islam Is of the Devil and head of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, two weeks ago carried through on his promise to "stand up" to Islam and burn a Quran. In response, crowds demonstrated in cities across Afghanistan, with a mob in the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif storming a United Nations compound, killing eight non-American aid workers and beheading two of them.

The message from the protests is clear: This is war. Nevertheless, moral ambiguities emerge. When backed by over 130,000 International Security Assistance Force troops and close to 300,000 Afghan National Security Forces operating under foreign command, how are civilian aid workers being perceived by local Afghans? In the minds of the protesters, what crimes were they committing if they genuinely believed that they were defending their religious traditions and customs from infidels occupying their country? None of this should imply that the Quran burning or the grisly violence meted out against innocent aid workers was justified. If anything, they epitomize the war in Afghanistan's two major problems.

First, they illustrate the discrepancy between the war of perceptions being waged abroad and the fearsome "Islamic menace" that our elected leaders continue to exploit back at home. Second, and perhaps more important, these incidents demonstrate the danger of America trying to forcibly export its liberal values onto illiberal societies.

U.S. policymakers have long believed that people around the world both want to adopt America's liberal values, institutions, and practices, and that they should embrace them because those values embody the most enlightened and most civilized way of thinking. This universalist belief was aptly summarized by President George W. Bush in his 2002 West Point speech: "Moral truth is the same in every culture, in every time, and in every place... When it comes to the common rights and needs of men and women, there is no clash of civilizations."

This way of thinking is profoundly flawed. The notion that moral truths should be singularly interpreted implicitly denies the differences between cultures. As prominent political science scholar Kenneth Waltz writes: "The powerful state may, and the United States does, think of itself as acting for the sake of peace, justice, and well-being in the world. But these terms will be defined to the liking of the powerful, which may conflict with the preferences and the interests of others."

To argue that moral truths and values are the same in every culture allows policymakers to avoid serious questions about the consequences of intervention, including the inherent constraints of operating within a foreign culture. Even simple issues like the burqa -- a billowy garment that covers a woman from head to toe -- are still misunderstood in America. Whatever one thinks about the burqa (a symbol of oppression, institutionalized intolerance, etc.), it is more than a mere item of clothing; it reflects the ultra-conservative societal norms in which Afghan women live, many of whom do not have the freedom to look and act however they want.

Many well-meaning Americans believe that the United States, with its commitment to individual rights, political and religious freedom, and the rule of law, has a unique role to play in advancing Afghan human rights. But the freedom Americans champion also entails one's freedom to dissent. Does the West have the moral authority to punish Afghan traditionalists who reject our imposition of social transformation? What happens when attempts to reshape Afghan customs and belief systems incite violent rebellions, as they recently did in Mazar?

Recent events in Afghanistan should be a wake-up call to how our 10-year occupation is actually being perceived. Rather than winning "hearts and minds," America's civilizing mission has become increasingly associated with a Western cultural invasion.

Cross-posted from Cato@Liberty.

 

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General David Petraeus, the head of American forces in Afghanistan, has emphasized the importance of winning the "hearts and minds" of Afghans by treating them and their culture with respect. Pentagon...
General David Petraeus, the head of American forces in Afghanistan, has emphasized the importance of winning the "hearts and minds" of Afghans by treating them and their culture with respect. Pentagon...
 
 
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01:36 AM on 04/11/2011
Capitalism is not an invention of the west, and nor is it the perfect system. In fact it has created more problems than it has solved. Is it sustainable indefinitely... unlikely.
India and China were well developed societies, with well developed trade, business and commercial practices, well before westerners climbed down from the trees.
As for democracy... a democratic system called the panchayat system has existed in India for over 3000 years. This system will eventually largely replace the present democracy we have. Ghandhi was a champion of this system.
Why did the west dominate the east over the last 500 odd years.? because the east had become soft, decadent and was easily undermined by the newly rising west's single minded pursuit for power and wealth.
India/China are not rising because of anything the west taught them, but because they have managed to re energise their own intrinsic qualities and strong points.
As for cricket its a lousy game, but better than baseball.
01:03 PM on 04/05/2011
If moral truths are culturally created than morality doesn't exist. Touche the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Skipping ahead, the "illiberal society" in Afghanistan was created by us. I don't think we need to be fighting there, but this is an awful argument.
11:18 AM on 04/05/2011
The reasons given by Ms. Innocent are incomplete.
The two main reasons why "American" values are sought to be exported with such zeal are: Immaturity and Arrogance.
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giving
For the right to the pursuit of happiness.
08:03 PM on 04/07/2011
Ravi,
you accuse America of "Immaturity and Arrogance"
and that this is what we are trying to do by
imposing American Values on Afgans, as
we hunt the mass murderers of the Twin Towers.
Actually it's just a hopeful sideeffect to the
war on terrorists, which are both bogged down,
remember the great India Mutiny of 1857 [I think}
was started by rumors that the British were
forcing loyal locals into greasing ammo with
pig fat, a clever rumor that offended both
Moslems and Hindus,that mutiny failed,
The Brits were also slaughtered in
Afganistan as were the Rus etc.although
your adventures in Kashmir and Sri Lanka
are different I guess...
Actually you have much to thank the Brits,
they respected non-violent protest, and
gave you crickett[sp?] I forget your
point ;
the young ladies argument
was cogent at least,
your's a little too slogan-like,
sorry,
but just chill.
it'll be OK.
we'll be long gone
from there,
and you'll still be
almost neighbors.
02:44 AM on 04/09/2011
"Much to thank the brits"...? The brits bled us dry. The Indian gdp was 16% of the worlds gdp when the btits came. It was less than 1/2 %, when they left.... and theres much more. Your history is weak.
10:51 AM on 04/05/2011
I agree that war is the last resort to use, but if we are going to war let's do it and get out.
This 'Nation Building' crap is just that 'Crap'.
We have been there 10 years and we are no closer to a solution than we were at the beginning.
The whole concept of war is to defeat an enemy and to make sure that the people or country thinks twice about engaging in bad behaver.
Trying to rebuild and to wage war at the same time is insane and counterproductive.
Pull out all of our troops from countries that don't want or need our protection.
How long are we going to be in countries with no timetable and no defined goals.
We have been in Europe going on 65 years. Today they have no enemies and we have 80,000 troops and spend billions defending countries that don't want to defend themselfs.
The same can be said for Japan and South Korea.
While we are out defending the so called 'Free World',China, India and other countries are investing in their economies and using the money that the 'Free Trade' agreements have given them while our economy continues to crumble and the gape between the have and have-not's continues to widen.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
10:34 AM on 04/05/2011
The arguments you present are no more timely than they would have been amongst the soviet union's general staff in 1980, or in NATO headquarters in 2001.

Crazed religious persons are found all over the world, whether rural Afghanistan or Gainesville. Their prevalence should gradually decline with time, but we're probably still centuries away from being rid of them.
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markhas2
10:02 AM on 04/05/2011
You are on the correct track of thinking on this. We should leave them to their own devices and let them sort out how they want to live. And we have every right to do the same when they try to come to our boarders, ban them, lock them out or deport them. Gitmo has a purpose.
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mlpo
09:48 AM on 04/05/2011
What nonsense! The riots were not caused by our "attemts to transform Afghan culture". They were caused by fanatics who are themselves outside the mainstream who organized a mob. Most of the participants were from outside Mazar-I-Sharif. The Afghan police arrested 20 and nobody is protesting that.
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Trustfunded1
09:25 AM on 04/05/2011
Since when are kill teams who murder civilians liberal ideals?

Murder,torture,occupation and war seems to be the key words the Corptocracy likes to leave out when talking about spreading liberal ideals inside of Afghanistan.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Alex Croley
One Nation, Indivisible, for Liberty and Justice f
08:52 AM on 04/05/2011
The overall question that needs to be answered is why are we here in the first place. In 2001 the message was clear and our military reasoning was semi-sound. Now ten years later, why are we really there? What is the purpose for our occupation? When exactly did our involvement with this endevor go from apprehending the man behind 9/11; to 'winning the hearts and minds'? We where there to do a job and after ten years, our Commander-in-Cheifs have both failed to fulfill either getting Bin Lauden or bringing our troops home from a place we really have no business being.

As for the chicken little, 'sky is falling' argument of they'll follow us home, I've got bad news; either they will or they won't, and whether or not we are occupying the land will not make a bit of difference either way.
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booker52
avid reader
08:15 AM on 04/05/2011
We needed to leave 7 yrs ago. Now we are just wasting lives and money.
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Rubiconski
On Crisis Standby Mode
05:47 AM on 04/05/2011
Forget all this religious mumbo jumbo!!

The majority of Americans wanted these wars ENDED a long time ago!!

Obama needs to do the job the voters gave him!!

If he had this would NOT have happened!!
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TheGreatRenewal
We're living a Great Renewal
05:29 AM on 04/05/2011
We are forced by some Truths we cannot avoid

1) We are all One Humanity. Any man can impregnate any woman.
2) We are all born from a woman's body
3) We all enter the world naked and equal
4) Any child can learn any culture, religion and language

So much else is in the Mind ... religions, cultures, language etc. Yet we use the Mind to separate ourselves and believe those separations are the truths. They aren't.

We are all One Humanity and it is time for us to recognize we are equal and abuse of that equality goes against the Great Truths.
08:31 AM on 04/05/2011
Well put. Fanned and Fave'd
05:27 AM on 04/05/2011
We can't forget the Afghans brought this down upon their own heads. They helped al qaeda torture and kill 3000 innocent US civilians on 9/11. Our goal is not one of rebuilding the country (is it really at country ?), it's one of vengeance for their unprovoked war crime against our brothers and sisters and children and even God. So we are there to kill Taliban for a while. How long should we do this ? I think a generation would be long enough to etch forever the experience into the collective heads of these monsters. So even 500 years from now as they sit around camp fires after a long days fight with a neighboring tribe and before they head home to beat their wives they will reflect back on the stories they've been told by their elders of the time of their "big mistake".
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Rowsdower
For extra fun, read my posts in Igniknokt's voice.
09:26 AM on 04/05/2011
All well and good, except that Afghanistan is a nation of many peoples, and the al Qaeda support came from the Taliban, who are Pashtuns. The Taliban weren't always in charge, and Afghanistan wasn't always the sort of nation it is today. Even today, the Taliban strongholds essentially amount to "Pashtun country" -- the Taliban and the Pashtuns are more or less the same people.

I think you might agree that anger is probably best focused on the Pashtuns and not the Uzbeks and other peoples of Afghanistan. I think you might also agree that any nation responsible for giving the Pashtuns the arms and expertise necessary to take over Afghanistan and export evil, needs to be punished as well. Otherwise The Pashtuns would be nothing more than a backwater group of savages of little global importance.
04:37 AM on 04/05/2011
Malou Innocent's point is a quite interesting one. However, what we have to ask in first place is: why did the US allow Pastor Terry Jones to burn the Quran in the first place? We all knew that protests like these would happen, if he went ahead with his initiative - last year, too many signs of a possible new wave of violence were visible in Afghanistan. What do you think, people? Should the US authorities have intervened to prevent Terry Jones from burning the Quran in the first place? Would that be a limit to democracy itself? Please, let me know your thoughts on this.
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MilesToGo
06:50 AM on 04/05/2011
The U.S. did not "allow" Jones to burn the Qur'an. It was Jones' free act of volition, unhindered by any American civil sanctions, which don't exist to stop book burning.
07:53 AM on 04/05/2011
I just published on my blog a video by CNN's Fareed Zakaria, where he elaborates on this same point. Check it here: http://afghancountdown.wordpress.com/2011/04/05/burning-the-quran-a-tale-of-politics-and-religion/

Following your comment, I would also like to ask you: if a Government imposed limits to actions such as Terry Jones', would that same Government be limiting democracy? If the goal is to restrain any hatred promotion behaviours, would such measures be tolerable?

(Note: I am not expressing my position, but exclusively trying to provoke you... I find this debate absolutely amazing, because it really raises significant questions about the way democracies work).
11:14 AM on 04/05/2011
Jones can burn any book he wants, but he represents a very significant proportion of American society and a particular mindset... which views anything "non american" as inferior or uncivilised
07:52 AM on 04/05/2011
We can't let Islam dictate the bounds of freedom in the US else we become like them 9which might be the point).
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Rowsdower
For extra fun, read my posts in Igniknokt's voice.
09:28 AM on 04/05/2011
Too late -- incitement to violence was declared illegal long ago in the United States. To quote Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic."
03:35 AM on 04/05/2011
This protest is just the tip of the iceberg. We are hated and have been hated in Afgan. We have terrorized and murdered 10's upon 10's of thousand civilians. Our actions have caused renewed radicle membership in radical Islam. The same goes for Iraq yet the civilian toll is hundreds of thousands. Innocent children terrorized and murdered by our American military for what reason? What reason would a parent accept and understand? None. We are purely hated by more today than anytime prior to 9.11. We need to start collectively living is this reality. A nation cannot do what we have done without serious blowback of which will be decades in the making.

To make matters worse, these illegal wars are killing our nation from within like a cancer.
05:32 AM on 04/05/2011
Same with Afghanistan: they are suffering serious blow back for their involvement in the 9/11 atrocities. All's they had to do was say no to Bin Laden but instead chose to butcher thousands of innocent people in my motherland. And if we are hated lets not forget, those who hate us are themselves hated and no better example is that fact that these "haters" have been handed ther hats are about to be shown the exit door in Europe.