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Hillary's Ignominious Finale
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Barack Obama, Campaign '08, Clinton-Obama Debate, Democratic Presidential Debate, Hillary Clinton, Msnbc Ohio Debate, Obama And Hillary Debate, Who Won Ohio Debate,
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All in all, it was a rather ignominious, belittling way to almost certainly close out the Clinton Era. Hillary would have done much better to spend the 90 minutes of Tuesday night's Ohio debate by repeatedly reading and re-reading her valedictory, closing remarks from last week's Texas match-up during which -- for a few shining moments -- a Good Hillary seemed to radiate with the grandeur of an honored First Lady and potential president of the United States.
But with her national poll numbers now slipping into a double digit lag behind Obama, with her last-ditch firewalls in Ohio and Texas rapidly crumbling, her political future quickly eroding, it was the Bad Hillary who dominated in what could very well be the final presidential debate of the season.
Thirty-five years of selfless public service, if we are to believe her campaign rhetoric, deserved more than this tin-pan finale. Clinton, in her best moments, is certainly capable of something more than a torrent of peevish, petty, picayune, and intellectually dishonest bickering and parsing.
Instead, Senator Clinton chose to remind us why she is losing the nomination that she was once so very sure would inevitably be hers. The smell of a loser permeated the entire low-energy event as Clinton tried to pick apart this or that phrase uttered one time or another by her rival.
Obama's been on a wild tear, continuing to surge and streak and -- to dip into the conventional wisdom -- it's hard to see anything that Clinton did Tuesday to stem his rising tide.
You'd think that Clinton could leave the national political stage with some larger, meaningful gesture. But, unfortunately, the only memorable line that she spoke tonight was a poorly constructed joke, surely written by a staffer.
It's taken me a decade and I'm still stumped trying to figure out what the meaning of "is" might really be. And yet Hillary tossed us the latest Clintonesque head-scratcher during the debate when she asked me -- and the millions watching -- to ponder the "difference between denouncing and rejecting."
I'm not sure which one of these acts of contrition her rival Barack Obama engaged in when asked by the moderators his view on the Reverend Louis Farrakhan. But whichever one it was, it was apparently the wrong one -- according to Senator Clinton.
Likewise, when it came to universal health care. Though Obama has adamantly campaigned on that promise from his first day on the stump, he was actually opposed to universal health care. At least, according to Hillary who belabored the point (to not say she beat it to death) for the first, torturous sixteen minutes of the debate.
And after repeatedly ignoring pleas from moderator Brian Williams to curtail her health care harangue, after extending and re-extending her remarks, Clinton then portrayed herself as a hapless victim of media bias by comparing Williams' questioning to a satirical sketch that aired over the weekend. "Well, could I just point out that in the last several debates, I seem to get the first question all the time? And I don't mind," she said with a grimace. "You know, I'll be happy to field them but I do find it curious. And if anybody saw Saturday Night Live, maybe we should ask Barack if he's comfortable and needs another pillow."
Rimshot!
Or was that a car crash?
Either way, time to bring in the mop-up crews. It's over.
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Hilary made two major istakes that the press has missed so far, but Obama did not. She indicated that LBJ didn't pass aMedicare program that is voluntary. As Obama corrected her, it is voluntary, you have to enroll to be covered. If you don't want it, you don't have to enroll.
Secondly, she accused him of wanting to bomb Pakistan. Obama correctly pointed out that attacking terrorists and threats anywhere has been US policy for many years, even back when Bill went after Ossama camps in the Sudan, and only 3 days ago when the CIA took out a high level terrorist in Pakistan and Mushariff agreed it was a good shot. Clintons must be asleep at the wheel, because just a few days ago McCain tried the same line and got slapped down the same way.
Maybe if the Clintons hadn't scared off the press from criticising Hillary, these goofs might have been headlined.
atp207, you are WRONG. Basic Medicare is NOT voluntary. People reaching retirement age are automatically enbrolled in basic Medicare. Medicare "Part B" and "Part D" are voluntary. Next time, get your facts straight before you mouth off.
Should be "automatically enrolled". Excuse me.
atp207, you ARE wrong. Basic medicare has never been voluntary. That is the problem with people who support Obama they don't know the facts, they don't know what is behind the suit. Some of you already voted one Bush into office, I sure hope you don't vote another one in....beca
Universala,
You are dead wrong about Medicare, just as you are wrong on many other of your comments. I have senior friends on Medicare and others who are not as they are still covered by their unions. Medicare is voluntary and many Seniors choose not to have it.
SORRY, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT BEFORE POSTING PROPAGANDA BULLSHT.
Yes, and heaven help us - think who he'd have in his cabinet. Think about it. Thinking of the possibilities gives me the shakes.
As a Massachusetts retired teacher, I do not qualify for Social Security or Medicare. (I understand that teachers in some states do.)
For the record..Me
I agree it's a nightmare. I have a relative completely disabled with MS, and somehow she is managing to survive on SSI and welfare. She doesn't even qualify for the much-vaunted stimulus check going out in May!
Yes, it is farewell time for Hilllary, as well as for 16 years of Baby Boomer Presidential leadership. Numerous publications including the New York Times and Newsweek have recently argued that Obama is part of a new generation
The baby boomer generation began in 1946 and ended in 1964...Oba
Hate to break your bubble, but Obama is a Baby Boomer President.
As a boomer, I am happy to claim him!
With all due respect but I consider the new generation with many exceptions of course a bunch of self centered, selfish brats who believe wealth and happiness must be instantaneous and that everything can be resolved at a click of a mouse or a text message.Ye
"When I was your age, I had to walk to school, uphill, both ways!"
I don't know how old you are, but I hope you hear how stereotypically old you sound. Your parents' generation said the same thing about you when you were young, and their parents about them, and so on and so on... Just substitute the internet for rock and roll or talking pictures.
Would that Generation Jones be the same as Jim Jones, the great cult leader who got all his members to drink koolaid so they could go to heaven immediately?
There's a lot of knee-jerk hand-wringing going on the the "progressive" blogosphere that anyone who dislikes Hillary Clinton is a misogynist.
Naturally, to this I say 'FUCKING BULLSHIT!'
I don't believe disliking HRC = misogyny. HRC has done little to endear herself to progressives and has done a lot to alienate them. I can't stand her at all, though there are a number of women I'd vote for if they were running.
I'll even hold my nose (and my stomach) and vote for her if she's the nominee, but I believe if she is, it's a clear path to the oval office for McBush. Hillary cannot win. Obama WILL win if he's nominated. To me, that's the difference.
I guess if that makes me a misogynist, I'll wear the t-shirt but Hillary has done far too much triangulating and supporting of Chimpy McClusterfuck's policies for me to ever be able to willingly support her. Hillary voted for the war in Iraq and then she teamed up with Joe Lieberman and voted for the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment. What's her problem? These are both chicken-shit positions where she is afraid of being called a Liberal by Fox News. And she want us to believe she has the guts to end the War in Iraq?
Sorry, not buying it.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Lol. Hillary is a consummate narcissist, and I've really enjoyed watching her putrefy. Obama has some very hawkish foreign policy advisors, like Brzezinski, which worries me greatly, but at this point the American empire is on the verge of collapse. We must deal with the cards we are handed. I think Obama has real potential and if the push from underneath is effectual, then we have a shot at some type of recovery.
Its because Hillary and McCain are both out of touch with what people need and even though Hillary had a chance to really listen and change her strategies, she fell back to her 1990's strategies and tactics. McCain will do so as well and the negative attacks on Obama will backfire on him. He already had to apologize a couple of times on behalf of his supporters.
"We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when . . . ."
Sayonara, Hillary
Marc Cooper,
Yours was a pretty swell read.
Because none of the candidates are addressing substantive issues, I must admit I've pretty much tuned out to it all.
A darn good reporter with the Rocky Mountain News has been on the candidate beat for 9 months now, and they refuse to answer his questions.
So. My question to you? How do we get these guys and gal to answer good questions on substantive issues?
Hillary Clinton should make an absolutely great President.
She has been through the battles and fire and continues to impress with her enormous intellect and command of the problems facing the nation.
I seriously doubt that anyone anywhere has the specific solutions she has to solve the monumental problems she will face if elected. She recognizes the problems and has a program to alleviate them.
Hillary Clinton looks to me to be the "Lady FDR". Or just maybe, "FDR and Eleanor", in one great package.
Barack Obama may remind us of John Kennedy, but "I knew John Kennedy and he was no FDR"!
Perhaps it's time for right-wing DINOs like JudeWright to switch parties?
"FDR and Eleanor", in one great package?????? puh-leeese.
Hillary Clinton is a corporatist. She is full of shit. She has strong links to corporate America and corporatist interests.
Not only is Hillary more reliant on large donations and corporate money than her Democratic rivals, but advisers in her inner circle are closely affiliated with unionbusters, GOP operatives, conservative media and other Democratic Party antagonists.
Having knowledge and then acting against the good of the people is exactly why Hillary is losing this election. I have no doubt that Hillary would be a better President than Bush. However, what she says and how she acts in terms of her voting record is very telling. Her constant support of Bush's wars and the neocon agenda with the hopes of gaining centrist and republican votes in the election is what did her in. She thought her primary win is inevitable. So she was focusing on the general. However, it was a miscalculation and the people who are tired of politics in Washington are mobilized and they don't like what they see in Hillary as much.
The anti-Hillary Clinton bias on this site, from the owner of it, to the columnists and bloggers, and from far too many left and center-left members is sad and very nearly pathetic.
Once again, the Democrats will shoot themselves in their collect feet and go the George McGovern route and lose any chance they have of reclaiming the White House and shoring up their numbers in the House and Senate.
You already know what kind of campaign the GOP is going to unleash againt Obama and not even windbag Oprah Winfrey can save him from it. Bill Cunnigham was only a cap pistol compared to what you can expect.
POPULAR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT, FOLKS, state Electoral College votes count and Obama will NOT carry OHIO, FLORIDA, and other key states that would help him win.
Once again, the GOP will marginalize a Democratic candidate, call which state will be the pivotal one (I'm thinking this year it's Pennsylvania), and win the White House. McCain will serve one term, and his young vice-president will then run in 2012 with lots of experience and exposure and GOP backing.
It always amazes me how astonishingly naive average Democratic Party members are about how the system works and how Presidential elections are won. Feel Good Blarney Doesn't Work. Change is baloney. It's an empty metaphor. Obama is good at empty metaphors.
You've got to be willing to get in the trenches and fight. Gore didn't do it. The abysmal failure Kerry didn't and couldn't do it. And Obama hasn't the substance to win any kind of fight against the GOP.
It's time for a lot of Demcorats to read political history, especially the history of Presidential politics.
Again, the naivete is stunning. Truly, truly stunning. And through of all this insipidness, Hillary gets attacked by the very people who should be behind her should she get the nomination.
What was Ronald Reagan's mantra? "Never speak ill of fellow Republican
Time to really grow up you anti-Hillary Huffington Post members. Suddenly, we have interpretive geniuses coming out of the woodwork and analyzing every word, every sigh, every finger, every glance, every tilt of the head, every comma, every preposition, and every shift in the seat. NONE OF THIS MATTERS. What matters is who can take it to McCain and the GOP.
Obama? Please, don't make me laugh. Yes, the naivete is breathless.
You folks need to start talking to people who've seen this before. With the bloody mess during the Eugene McCarthy/Hubert Humphrey era and then with that empty suit George McGovern. And then we had Jimmy Carter, a one-term failure who didn't have the guts to stand up to Iran during the hostage crisis. Carter, a man who thought wearing a sweater would comfort the country. AN EMPTY IMAGE.
Don't you people see what has come before and what you are doing?
Sad, very, very, sad.
Obama has been through several tough campaigns. I think you need to check out his life story. He's not afraid of the Republicans. He's been called all sorts of names. He's been called to new, too young...FO
Obama will be your next president and he'll make us all proud. The guy is even more amazing once you know his entire story.
What tough campaigns? The first campaign he ran for the Illinois legislature, he stole
from the lady who had that seat by promising her her would only run if she ran for Congress.
When she decided not to, he said....to
I'm running. His run for the Senate was against a man who was a candidate for three months....
Well, there it is. Jude has spoken and we're condemned and damned. And I was just beginning to enjoy the ride. So, let's all forget the polls and ignore grassroots workers and organizers, crumble them all up and throw them all away. Jude knows and Jude says and that makes it true. That's the way it's gonna be, then, so dash your hopes, folks, 'cause Jude has spoken!
And now we have John McCain trying to channel GWB. If you, JudeWright, believe that John McCain (who endorses the 100 year war and who has signed on to the Republican wealthy take-all program) has a fighting chance in November, you might possibly be engaged in wishful thinking.
The wheels have effectively fallen of the straight talk express. What was unique about John McCain has vanished.
it was all a facade anyway
You're very sadly mistaken, on Obama going down in flames as McGovern.
Quite to the contrary! Would've been poor lil ole Hillary. Who would've went down in flames to McCain in the fall, surely not Obama. Lil ole Hillary's early lead over all others. Was far exagerated, overbloated, on thin ice, and fraudulently illicit. Edwards would've also melted her false lead away. Obama just hapened to be more poetic in oratory, more energizing batttery exciting.
Obama will crush wolf in sheep's clothing McCain in the fall. Surpassing Goldwater's, McGovern's, & Carter's landslide losses.
Remember when it happens! You heard it first from me.
Prophetic Poetic Preacher Roy
you are correct, Roy
Hillary's only asset is name recognition. She has no experience for the job. And nobody does. Nobody has ever done it before it's been done. So it's really more about who do you trust.
Poetic? You are barely literate.
JudeWright,
Just curious. What qualities are you demanding from the candidate of your choice?
What I've mostly read on Huffington - are things have nothing to do matters that matter.
Like: If the European and North American unions, coupled with environmentalists drive to take US land and water our of resource production, and a disastrous trade set-up continuing at mach speed, soon...Ame
I'm more concerned about the fact that while we can control "political warming" and prevent it from frying us into crispy critters..
It's like homosexuality. Those who were born with it, can't do a thing about it. BUT, those who choose to behave horribly towards homosexuals can alter their behavior, but choose not to.
Hillary is a warmonger. Obama will end our involvement in Iraq. End of story.
good luck with that.
We have no idea what Barack is going to inherit and he starts looking at what the idiot king has left him.
Its a good thought but I wouldn't count on it as your major reason for voting for him.
If he doesn't you will wind up having hated Hillary for years in vain and will turn your hate towards Obama.
Silly isn't it?
Great pin point article Mark. Right on target. The Clinton machine typical. Blame all others, circumstance, and variable, rather than self.
"I did not have sex with THAT WOMAN", RIGHT!
Ole (william) Jeff (erson) Clinton attempted to trash Monica. Till she revealed her dress, praise God.
Poor lil ole Hillary was beat in the nomination's race, from the get go. The early overbloated, exagerated lead the polls posted were fraudulent and illicit. Obama just happened to be the more charasmatic and energizing battery, rather than Edwards. If it hadn't been for Obama. Edwards would've beat her. Hillary never was going to get this nomination, nor presidency. Which I wrote tons upon last year. And the current nomination process. Affirms my political insights of last year.
Another prophecy? Obama will murder wolf in sheep's clothing McCain in the fall. Remember, you heard it first from me!
Rev Ronnie Roy Sr: Free lance writer/preacher
I agree that Obama will trounce McCain in the general election. One reason that McCain is tied in the polls now against Obama is the same reason Hillary was originally ahead in the polls: name recognition. Also, on the surface McCain has come through as fairly liberal, centrist. Wait until more people hear about his singing “bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" and his 100 year war plan. Wolf in sheep’s clothing, indeed. Just keep it kinda quiet until he is definitely the nominee. Do not want some electable Republican jumping in at the last minute.
Well amen Kristin! Good to meet another politically wise, tight discerning poster.
I've already begun preparing. McCain's wolf on the prowl devourment feast of celebration. For his imminent assured fall landslide of defeat. You're personally invited to attend the "howling"!
Prophetic Poetic Preache!
How poetic.
How Christian.
Mail order Reverend?
"smart tough capable woman," "victim of sexism" all bull hockey. Where was the sexism when she was the front runner and the putative nominee? She seems to have thought she'd have this all wrapped up by Super Tuesday and consequently had no plan for an extended campaign.
Hillary Clinton, who I would once have voted for, is losing because she is playing the ultimate insider and a patronizing one at that. As empty at Obama's talk may be, it is inspirational to many people and gives voice to their hopes and dreams for a better future and a better country.
Hillary's response? "Don't get your hopes up, don't dream big, just leave things to me, I know better than you." When she said Obama was giving people "false hope" she insulted the intelligence of every voter in the country and revealed that she considers them nothing but sheep and dolts.
That's why she's losing - because her campaign is about her, it's not about us.
Terry
I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that Obama's campaign is merely rhetoric. His website has his positions all laid out. Obama has just taken a different approach in his own speeches and is emphasizing his philosophy rather than his plan; this is his marketing strategy, if you will. It is this strategy, combined with a reputably efficient campaign at the nuts-and-bolts level that is building the Obama tidal wave.
exactly. it's all about her. about "my qualificat
why do you think she's so smart? she can't even hire a proper campaign staff. Bill's suddenly a racist; how did she let that one out of the barn? She's been drawn into his hillbilly world. Sorry.
The US is in desperate need of a new direction; that means new blood, not only in the presidency, but in the congress as well. GWB alone did not put this country in the miserable shape in which we now find ourselves. Senator Obama comes closest to filling my requirement for new blood, but he too has been a disappointment with his health care proposals.
It is no surprise that the health care segment of last night’s debate was consistent in that it kept the discussion within very narrow parameters. I know of no candidate, or elected official for that matter, who has mentioned the program that is already operational; a program that is efficient with low cost administration and well regarded by the public.
It is indeed strange that no mention is ever made to simply extend Medicare to all of our citizens. Universal Medicare would be less expensive than what we have now. It will cover everyone and bring to an end the abominations committed against our citizens by private insurers in their quest to maximize corporate bottom lines.
Not all services provided by the private sector can meet an acceptable standard for fiscal efficiency and adequate service. We must accept the fact that the health care provided by big healthcorp has been a disaster.
All sides in the current political debate seem to have a vested interest or some sort of distorted loyalty to these profit-making commercial insurance entities. These organizations have carved out multimillion-dollar ventures for themselves in an arena where they have proven to be a hindrance rather than worthwhile contributors to the nations physical and fiscal health.
It’s time for the US to join the rest of the advanced world and move to universal Medicare.
What nobody seems to be mentioning here is how much we are a product of media manipulation, and yet I have to acknowledge that this is the era we are in. So few people want to hear the same point more than once. Just give us bling, give us the knockout punch. I personally found it quite rewarding to hear these two very competent and intelligent people go at an actual dialog about health care, the very most they have ever been permitted to do on the tube. And Hillary had to fight like hell and talk over the Moguls to get it to happen. I DON'T have a negative reaction when she uses fighting tactics, the smooth and the not so smooth, when she drags out all the stuff she has, including staff suggestions.
I fervently HOPE that this ISN'T about sexism (women did get the vote much later than black men), but rather is just FINALLY the TURNING of a cynical and media-hyped younger generation to INVOLVEMENT with a candidate who is closer to speaking their language.
I'm still supportin' Clinton 'til if and when she withdraws because SHE CAN DO THIS JOB. And if she does withdraw, I'm supportin' Obama because HE CAN DO THIS JOB.
A Democrat in '08.
Clinton defines corruption. If you remember, the Democratic party was in complete disarray at the end of the Clinton presidency. HE was a complete embarrassm
At the time, they were , historically, the most corrupt administration ever. People seem to forget what a mess he made.
EXCELLENT POINTS jandris.
The media drove her to front runner. They kept saying she was inevitable, she was going to be the next President and I
would get infuriated with it. I wasn't supporting her at that point, I was supporting Obama. I would email in protest of the unfair coverage they were giving her. I wanted to hear more from Biden, Edward who they pretty much drove out of the race by not giving them any time.
And the media seem to think that this is OK because you talk about or cover who's hot, right? (Chris matthews actually said this) Of course they neglect the fact that the people who are "hot" (?? WTF ??)got that way because of media coverage or lack of it or the slanting of it.
I remember Matthew's turning on Hillary it was like night and day. One day he is fawning and the next day BAM, no warning, no working up to it, Just smack down and then starts driving the narrative that she was running as the presumptive nominee.
OHMYGOD!
I was appalled. I liked that Obama was getting the coverage, all favorable. After awhile though it was far too obvious for anyone concerned with justice and fair play to not notice.
I started emailing them again, but it got worse. Matthews browbeating his guests into tentatively agreeing with every slam and attack, Olbermann, who I used to have great respect for making snide and sarcastic anti Hillary comments on distorted claims by other media persons.
Then I was listening to an Obama speech without watching and just got uncomfortable with him though I couldn't figure out why. A couple of days later he says she is too polarizing. the red flag went up for me because that is such a neo-con propaganda line. It might be true NOW, but what makes someone polarizing? the fact that she is constantly called polarizing, lied about and has so much unjustified and unjustifiable hatred thrown at her, Plus she is treated in ways that might make one defensive. Ya think?
So I tucked that into the back of my head and next he said the I know I can get Hillary's supporters but can she get mine. WHOOPS! another red flag. Divisiveness in action. Arrogance on top of it. A very cynical and manipulative mood designed to threaten the party unity and strike fear.
Nope, I'm not liking that.
I'm foolishly assuming that whoever the nominee is will be rallying his or her supporters around the nominee so we have party unity and can take back the white house.
So what is this?
If I don't win the nomination I am going to pick up my marbles and go home?
Then Michelle attacks Hillary and also says she doesn't know if she can support her.
Nice.
Way to go.
Meanwhile most of the people I know who are Obama supporters are pretty nasty about Hillary(though mild compared to what I read here) and most of the Hillary supporters I know really like Obama and will of course support him. They may have an issue or a problem with this or that, but mainly they just think Hillary is the stronger candidate. No hate thrown, no nasty comments, no knocking him down though there are questions raised.
Of course when those questions are raised the Obamatons get a little hot under the color one might say, and imply if not threaten that they will be voting for McCain.
How lovely.
We sure are coming together to get things done, change the tone of our dialogue and disagreeing without being disagreeable.
It is very disturbing.
A couple of weeks ago the negatives out weighed what I saw as the positives in the Obama camp.Once I saw Russert "confront" (that is an overstatement) Barack about the race card and how it came out of the Obama camp and how they continued it far after they were saying they didn't want this to continue. I just turned off. Russert showed 4 pages of talking points, memos, emails explaining how this or that could possibly be construed as racism and how it should be discussed.
One of the most cynical misuses of personal power to exploit people's desire to believe in something and the further undermining and diminishing of Hillary Clinton that I have ever seen.
I felt sick to my stomach and could no longer support him.
that is when I went on my digging expadition to find out what I could Hillary and this almost psychotic Hatred of her. I also looked into Obama. I found a few things questionable about him, not quite the pure change agent he portrays himself as, but this is politics I expect some of that. You have to win, that is what you are there for.
On the whole I just felt better about Hillary after all of what I found out.
Just the fact that she not only worked on the Nixon impeachment but that research she did was instrumental on forcing his resignation put a lot of points in the plus column for me.
this whole mess strikes me as very immature and not very Progressive at all.
This Primary has been a huge disappointment. What should have been, could have been a celebration of Progressive values no matter who won turned into a hate fest with the Obamatons pissing all over hope and change.
They played politics as usual.
As I watched last night I realized tha my prediction had come true.
Her last attack of the primary season came down to Hillary arguing, I know you are but what am I?
I felt that this was her way of throwing it all in. It was actually sad!
At least she went down giving it her all, even if it was all wrong to do!
I felt no sympathy for Senator Clinton when she complained about her treatment at the hands of the media, she, or her campaign have complained constantly,and have tried to dismiss the results of primaries which they considered inconsequental. They claim treatment has been sexist when it suites their cause. They do not complain when they receive special consideration, and sympathy when Hillary forced her crocadile tears which was a sexist act in itself. If Senator Obama had cried at any point, he would have been ridiculed for it, because Men should not cry. It is past the time to stop the Clinton Machine, to stop moving the goal posts, and to allow the party to coalesce around Senator Obama, I only hope that Hillary has not fed the Republican't Candidate too much amunition. Billary, Please Shut Up And Go Away! I will send Hillary a pillow if she does.
Senator Clinton has had a free pass from the media. Can ANYONE explain why they haven't released their income tax documents? Can anyone explain why she hasn't released her White House correspondence. Can anyone explain why Bill Clinton hasn't disclosed his finances. And why hasnt he/she been made to explain the Presidential pardons? It really is about time the media got arround to "vetting" her.
Oh, for crying out loud. You know, there must be two broadcasts of every debate, because I'm pretty sure I wasn't watching the same one the bloggers were. But one thing that never surprises me is the venom that flows once the Barack Attackers descend like locusts on any site that mentions Hillary Clinton, for good or bad.
If Barack Obama is such a wonderful guy, great candidate and harbinger of change, why do some of you who back him find it so important to blast Hillary and every Hillary backer from here to kingdom come?
I'm one of those Hillary supporters who is thinking twice about voting for Obama in the general election. I am tired of being maligned by Obama supporters as being out of touch, craven, power-seeking, hypocritical or whatever else they want to throw at me, by way of throwing it at my candidate. I'm simply a Democrat who looked at the card of candidates, did my research and chose who I wanted to vote for, based on who I thought would do the best job.
Some of the Obama supporters on these blogs really need to pull in their talons. I can tell you one thing from experience, and that is they can't win this on their own. They will neeed a unified Democratic Party to pull this off.
And don't start all the "Supreme Court! Supreme Court!" BS with me. Where was this vaunted "youth vote" in the last election when that really mattered? What, now you want me to vote for your candidate to rescue what's left of your right to choose and your right to privacy?
Hey, I've been doing that for 40 years now, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm tired of you sitting on your Me-centered rear ends waiting for everyone else to tuck you in for your life.
You want your candidate to win? Then stop dissing my candidate and telling nearly half of the Party that we're idiots. We aren't. And you WILL need us.
If you knew anything about your candidate, then we'd back off. Don't threaten us.
Like I said in a previous reply, the Clintons defined corruption. Historically, they were at the top of the dung heap.
Let's say we lose YOUR vote. I know, personally, three Republicans who are voting Obama this time around. We're cleaning up the mess whether you're on board or not.
lord, you people need to get over your arrogance. I'm not an HRC supporter, but your "We" against "You" attitude is really making me reconsider my decision for Obama (having originally supported Edwards). I may end up going for Nader after all just because you Obamicans are really, really, irritating and arrogant without cause. Obama may make a good President--I think he would. But lord jesus he is not the second coming, and your attitude that anyone who doesn't grovel at his feet has to be demonized is really getting sickening.
I hope to hell that you guys wise up before the general election. Right now Obama is in the lead. But, damn, guys: wake up! If your attitude is beginning to affect so many Democrats, how do you think it's going to affect independents and conservative Democrats.
You are going to lose this election for Obama. You need to get a grip and realize that if this party isn't united, it doesn't win.
It's time to start making nicey-nice with the HRC supporters.
Otherwise you're going to be really disappointed come november.
And I can show you seven democrats on my block alone who'll be voting McCain. God only knows why except all of them detest Billary and say Obamara is unqualified. The train wreck speeds onward.
After "our Republican" government spent 67 Million Dollars investigating the Clinton's, all they could come up with is "lying" about sex. And, to be truthful, he didn't even lie then. Look up the definition of "sexual relations" in the dictionary. Oral sex is sex but it is NOT "sexual RELATIONS.
You have been listening to talk radio too much.
With 5 BILLION dollars worth of "free" negative advertising about the Clinton's, Bill left office with a 65% Approval Rating, Hillary won the N.Y. Senate seat, the last time with over 70% of the vote, and she is still standing TALL. Don't count Hillary out just yet!!!
The Republicans (McCAin) is starting to pile-on Obama! He is not a shoo-in, and IF the Florida delegates were counted (which they MUST be, or droves of Democrats will sit out the election), she would be AHEAD of Obama in the delegates right now.
Look up "Obama Rezko Auchi" on the internet. It is an eye opener.
The ONLY MESS that needs to be cleaned up is the George W. Bush mess, and Hillary is the best one to do that.
On second thought, ONE OTHER MESS needs to be cleaned up, the WAY Democrats select their nominee. Caucuses should be eliminated. They are not democratic. ONLY registered DEMOCRATS should be allowed to vote in the DEMOCRATIC Primary. ONLY registered Republicans should be allowed to vote in the Republican Primary. INDEPENDENTS (or undeclared), who can't make up their mind, should sit out (or put forward their own candidate.
Primary campaigning should last 3 months. Everyone should vote on the same day. Early voting should be outlawed for both the primaries AND the general election.
The CONSTITUTION says the presidential election shall be on the SAME DAY throughout the country!!!!!
When early voting occurs, that is breaking the constitution.
Have you considered that what Hillary is going for is eight more years as co-president, with years 9 through 16 in the White House where she will be top dog co-president?
Uh... we aren't "blasting" you, pgate, we're blasting Hillary's debate performance, which is endemic of her whole personna in this campaign. Try not to take it so personally. I think most of us do not see it all in such black and white terms (no pun intended), we just think Obama is the better bet to win and to get things accomplished in Washington. If Hillary got the nomination I would enthusiastically support her, as would Obama from what he said. But last night she was clearly in desperate attack mode and he was clearly in low-key, coast-to-a-win mode. It was natural for both of them, I suppose, given their uneven situations. But Hillary's attacks have been petty and sometimes sleazy (her campaign never denied releasing the turban pic, for example) and Obama has done a good job of keeping the tone at a much higher level. Their programs are not far apart, but their personalities and tactics are, so that's why the comments get personal. I remember last Fall in the debates long before the first primary, Hillary alone prefaced most of her statements with "When I'm President.
How sickening is it to read the postings of the Clinton supporters threatening to stay home in the fall because they don't like the postings of the Obama supporters - have you all listened to yourselves? We're not running for president - he is! And don't pretend like clinton-hate is a new sport - it is older than the recent Obama phenomenon - he just provided an alternative.
I don't plan on staying home, never did. You and Obama will not deprive me of my right to vote, much as you would like to. If I have to, I will vote for Nader because of his stand on universal health care. The Insurance companies think they are almost home free, but here comes Ralph.
pgate,
I think it is YOUR choice to engage or skip over those that attack Clinton in an unfair manner. I have found mean-spirited attacks on both sides Obama's and Clintons. However,since I am not interested in pissing matches between posters, I skip over them and respond to where I see fit. I wonder, why, if you are bothered by the Obama attackers would you continue to engage them? A threat that if Obama supporters attack Clinton then you will not vote for Obama seems a bit childish don't you think?
My support for a candidate has nothing to do with its supporters. My decision about thinking Hillary is not what the country needs right now has nothing to do with how Hillary supporters are engaging in attacks. I know plenty of good people who are supporting Hillary. If Hillary were to become the nominee, she would get my vote over McCain regardless of how her supporters were attacking Obama supporters here. I would hope that a concerned, responsible citizen would look at more than the blogosphere banter to choose a representative.
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