Reactionary Republicanism Reaches New Low

The mendacity of the Republican Senate's decision to scuttle a bail out of Big Three automakers is only surpassed by their venality in trying to finger the UAW as the culprit in the piece. There is little question that management at the Big Three has been clueless for years, but even they can't be blamed for the fact that their retiree workforce is three decades older than those of Japanese and Korean automakers.

Nor are they responsible for the skyrocketing costs of health care that the dysfunctional U.S. system has burdened them with, a burden that the union took off their shoulders in the recent negotiations at great risk to its own retirees, let alone its credibility in the face of a collapsing market. To reduce this dilemma to the outdated politics of anti-unionism is a cynical admission that Michigan may forever be beyond Republican reach and that the Republicans are circling the wagons around their Southern base, where foreign automakers operate "union free."

The simple fact is that in addition to the enormous social and economic consequences of a hard landing for Chrysler and GM in particular, the Republicans will be wearing the albatross of bailing out Wall Street while abandoning working Americans for years to come. Even Herbert Hoover wasn't this stupid!

Comments

[realpolitic]

@Michale32086,

"Bailout plan rejected - supporters scramble"

The fate of the government's $700 billion financial bailout plan was thrown into doubt Monday as the House rejected the controversial measure.

The measure, which is designed to get battered lending markets working normally again, needed 218 votes for passage. But it came up 13 votes short of that target, with a final vote of 228 to 205 against. Two-thirds of Democrats and one-third of Republicans voted for the measure

Republican leaders, who had pushed their reluctant members to vote for the bill, pointed the finger for the failure at a speech given Monday by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

Pelosi, speaking on the House floor, had blamed the nation's economic problems on "failed Bush economic policies."

House minority leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said after the vote that passage would have been possible if it had not been for Pelosi's "partisan speech."

Boehner told his members, many of whom objected to the measure, that they had to accept something he and many of them found distasteful.

"If I didn't think we were on the brink of an economic disaster, it would be the easiest thing to say no to this," Boehner said. But he said lawmakers needed to do what was in the best interest of the country.

Some Democrats voted against the bill for not doing enough to help taxpayers facing foreclosure or unemployment.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

[mommadona]

MAP OF MOST CORRUPT STATES IN US:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-10-corruptstates_N.htm?se=yahoorefer
(Note that every state that every Republican voting AGAINST the bailout is present)

GOP-2009
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/efi/lowres/efin517l.jpg

[Rule Of Law]

1
Before this Depression was even officially named a "Recession," (for the past year)--I was reading remarks from Elites quoted in the papers saying that they saw economic crises as "buying opportunities."

Buying opportunities....Well that makes sense. Sort of like waiting for the after xmas sales because you know there will be some great deals.

This bridge loan for the auto industry is now being memed to death by the MSM who once again are following the neo-con lead. It's now a battle about the greedy unions vs the staunch conservative saviors of America.

[Rule Of Law]

2
And part of that is true: The neos (especially those good old Southern boys with foreign auto plants in their states that they need to protect) have used this economic crisis as a wedge to get at the unions which have always posed the greatest threat to the total domination of American workers by the Corporate Oligarchs. But that's just the tip of the iceberg and meant to distract us from the real business of the Republican/Corporate alliance.

When a political party is willing to sacrifice an entire industry, throw over 3 million people out of work and plunge the country into what will undoubtedly be the worst Depression ever, we need to ask why? That's a simple enough question...

And the answer is: Xmas Sale! Buying Opportunity!

Because when you are willing to take an entire country--and the rest of the world--down in the name of some repellent ideology that denies working people the basic right of survival, you are engaging in Class Warfare! This is not capitalism vs "socialism," this is Rich vs Poor. And after the economy melts down the Rich will drive by the rest of us on the soup lines on their way to buy up the rest of America on the cheap. The biggest sale in history.

[BillMelater]

I got a sliver of news for the GOP. Not only will the UAW survive, but it will come back with a vengeance. After January 20th you will see your red state workers clamouring to join. Why? Because they aren't stupid. They watched you and they dont' like you. Your blatent Anti-Americanism has doomed your GOP to the pages of the history books.

[Michale32086]

Time will tell..

If the UAW, like the CEOs and Management cannot reign in their greed and start doing things that actually benefits the workers AND the company, they will find themselves on the trash heap of history, just like the companies they are supposed to serve...

Michale....

[realpolitic]

Yes, Michale, those greedy auto workers! They are all getting rich! They make autos for a few years and then retire in their millionaire mansions. The truth is they make slightly more than non-unionized auto workers in the south. In fact, Toyota says it auto workers in non-unionized plants make more than UAW workers working for the Big 3. You just hate unions as much as any of those conservative Republicans. Shelby of Alabama hates unions and his state has some of the lowest wages in the nation.

[Michale32086]

@realpolitic

}}}
Besides Michale, you are still avoiding any issues of substance like the differential in legacy costs between American and foreign auto makers?
{{{

Not at all.. I am simply pointing out how wrong the author was when he stated that it was the Republicans that were responsible for the Wall Street ballot. This has been proven to be false.. Democrats, along with President Bush, pushed the bailout. The Wall Street bailout failed the first time and then, when the Democrats sweetened the deal with a lot of pork for reluctant Democrats and a lot of Patriot Act additions for Republicans, the bailout bill went thru.

These are the facts. And they are indisputable..

}}}
Also, what would have been the result if the TARP legislation for financial firms had not passed?
{{{

Probably the EXACT same result we have now WITH the Wall Street bailout...

{{{
What would be the result if Detroit is not given this loan? Have you considered it?
}}}

A new and better car industry would arise. An industry that would (oh gods no!!!) actually put their customer first and build products that the American people would want to buy..

OHMYGODS, THE HORROR OF IT ALL!!!!!

You're right.. That is simply TOO horrible of a result to comprehend!!!

/sarcasm....

Michale....

[realpolitic]

Yes, a new car industry will arise. Just like all the television manufacturers that replaced our former television manufacturers that went broke. There are no more televisions made in America. And just like the loss of our motorcycle manufacturers, we have one left, Harley Davidson, and it is doing well now, despite earlier needing a good deal of financial assistance from government.

You are still getting the facts wrong on the bailout of financial firms. Your steadfastness does not surprise me as you still insist 1998 was the warmest year, although it is written on the GISS site that it was not. What happened was that Democrats and Republicans had a deal regarding the bailout. Then McCain came back to look heroic for his campaign and broke up the deal, until Democrats added more pork to the deal for some Republicans, which you conveniently call homeland security incentives.

1) You still have not dealt with the difference in legacy costs between American auto manufacturers and foreign firms?

2) What about the article I provided you with detailing McCain's role in busting the initial deal?

3) Please, since you think a new car industry will suddenly take the place of the old one, give me some examples where American manufacturers have disappeared to be entirely replaced by foreign manufacturers and then the industry has suddenly arisen again?

4) Where has it been proven false that the bailout was a bi-partisan deal? The Bush administration is Republican by the way.

[joebiz]

Marco, you act as if the UAW is some poor little babe-in-the-woods victim. The union was doing well when the Big 3 sold cars. If you want to force the American taxpayer to fund private corporations then the American taxpayer should get a piece of the pie, not just the idea that we are "helping" labor and an American industry.

[SAmberM]

Hallelujah, Marco!

[Michale32086]

@realpolitic

{{{{{
That headline is just from another right-wing website where you get all your information. The headline is meaningless. The Democrats have a narrow majority until January and the bill passed among both parties.

You say you deal in facts, but get all your information from right-wing sites that make up sensationalist headlines and they mislead you each time. Unfortunately, each time you fall for it, like a sheep being led to the slaughter.
}}}}}

Here is another site that has the same story..

http://lifeandmoneytoday.com/2008/09/26/democrats-back-bushs-wall-street-bailout-bill-that-republicans-oppose/

Is this a right wing site too???

Don't tell me, let me guess..

Any site that doesn't agree with you is a "right wing site"...

Does that sum things up???

Michale.....

[realpolitic]

Michale, that is the same article on a different site. You see how limited your information is. Why don't you deal with the facts that I pointed out? The Bush administration sponsored TARP bill passed the Senate 74 to 25. Democratic Senators Russ Feingold and Jon Tester were among those who voted against it. Therefore, many more Republican senators voted for it than voted against it. Besides a yes vote was the responsible vote as most respected economists, included Bush's financial team, said we would sink into another Great Depression without it as credit markets would seize up.

[Michale32086]

That same story has been on the AP site, the Yahoo site and many other news sites..

All those news sites are wrong and YOU are right???

How does that work, exactly??

Regardless, you are talking about the SECOND vote. The one that DID finally pass.

The first vote did NOT pass. Democrats had to bribe reluctant Dems and Republicans to get them on board..

I have another site that the report is on..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/hoyer-blunt-hopeful-of-pr_n_130769.html

But you will probably call that another RIGHT WING site, eh??

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

@realpolitic

}}}}}
Michale, the only thing that is clear to me is that you deal in your on little fantasy world gotten from right-wing sites.
{{{{{

I wasn't aware that bloggingstocks.com was a "right-wing site"... I only found that one article there, after googling.. Wow.. Who knew???

}}}}
You continue to deny global warming based on limited information from a few right wing sites.
{{{{

Actually, the proof that the global average temp has dropped since 1998 is on the NASA GISS site. If I am not mistaken, that is NOT a right wing site..

Do you have any evidence to support your claim it is???

}}}
As you can see, most Republican senators voted for the Wall Street bailout.
}}}}

Yes, the Wall Street bailout passed the SECOND time it was submitted. The FIRST time, though it failed. Democrats put a whole lot of "sweeteners" into the bailout bill to entice the Republicans to vote for it...

None of that information changes the FACT that Democrats, in collusion with Bush, pushed the Wall Street bailout measure thru...

These are the FACTS...

}}}}}}
You can thank the Republicans for the sad state of the economy, although I am sure you did not understand the complexities of that situation either.
{{{{{

I thank both the Republicans AND the Democrats for the sad state of the economy. Anyone who doesn't is a bigot, a fool or ignorant.

Most likely liberal portions of all three...

Michale.....

[realpolitic]

Michael, the GISS site says: "The year 2007 tied for second warmest in the period of instrumental data, behind the record warmth of 2005, in the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) analysis. 2007 tied 1998, which had leapt a remarkable 0.2°C above the prior record with the help of the "El Niño of the century". What can be more straight forward than that? You insist that the year 1998 was the hottest year on record despite what you read on the GISS' own site. You see the fantasy world you are in?

The site you quoted from simply quoted a sensationalist headline. The article, in fact, said "Maybe Republicans are throwing up roadblocks so McCain can swoop in and solve the impasse, looking presidential in the process." So some Republicans did not at first embrace the TARP bill so McCain could come in and save the process and look presidential. The Republicans backed the bill or it would not have passed. That is the reality.


Michale, if you would bother to read about the state of the economy you can see that Republican policies of deregulation are much more to blame than anything. Below I listed a link from a series of in-depth articles about the financial crisis in the New York Times. Try to read through a few of them. It goes way beyond the simplistic understanding the conservative media will give you. .

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/series/the_reckoning/index.html

[realpolitic]

Cheney To GOP Senators: It's 'Herbert Hoover Time'

Senate Republicans' dramatic revolt against a White House-backed auto industry rescue plan is fraught with political risk.

While the high-stakes gambit places them squarely within the mainstream of anti-bailout public sentiment, at the same time it exposes the party to potentially devastating criticism that its failure to compromise doomed the Big Three automakers and deepened the economic recession.

...

That was the message Vice President Dick Cheney brought to a closed-door Senate GOP lunch Wednesday, reportedly warning that it'll be "Herbert Hoover" time if aid to the industry was rejected, according to a senator familiar with the remarks. A Cheney spokeswoman would neither confirm nor deny the vice president's remarks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/cheney-to-gop-senators-it_n_150479.html

[realpolitic]

Michale32086, why don't you address what was said in this article instead of making inane ideological points. The article discusses how the Big Three auto makers are saddled with higher legacy costs for workers because they have several generations of employee's health care costs to support as they have been around longer than the foreign automakers. They have more retired employees health care costs to meet. Besides the foreign governments, like Korea and Japan, pay for the health costs of the workers in the country. Health care is nationalized in those countries. So how can U.S. manufacturers compete in a market where they have to pay health care costs and their competittors don't? How do Republicans address these facts?

[Michale32086]

I dunno, as I am not a Republican..

But I can tell you that the auto makers have shown that they cannot compete..

Ergo, they should be allowed to fail so that better companies can rise in their stead...

Michale.....

[realpolitic]

Michale, the article spells out many of the reasons the auto manufacturers are in a poorly competitive position relative to foreign automakers. Foreign governments, Korea and Japan, pick up the health care costs of the workers in those countries. Therefore, how can American companies compete? I am asking how Republicans want to address this imbalance and not inferring you are a Republican? Democrats want to address it by providing health care to those who can not otherwise afford it!

I know Detroit has dug a hole for themselves by making big cars over the years, gas guzzlers, and fighting innovation. That is another issue. But I am trying to get you to think about the legacy costs issue. You know what the legacy costs are - the health care costs for employees and retired workers. Trying to get you to think is very difficult. indeed.

[Michale32086]

Oh, forgot one point..

}}}}}
We each call it the truth, but it is simply the truth as you or I see it.
{{{{

Exactly.. If one wants truth, I suggest they take up philosophy...

I deal in facts..

}}}}
Why not blame all parties involved, instead of coming up with some bullshit notion that Bush and the Dem congress are in cahoots. Seems more obvious and less conspiratorial.
{{{{

When warranted, I do..

But in THIS case, the facts are otherwise... In THIS case, the "bullshirt notion" is accurate.. As the facts show.....

Michale.....

[realpolitic]

You keep mentioning something about "facts," what facts are you speaking of anyway. Then you say something about both parties are to blame. Exactly how? Your statement is written in such generalities that it is meaningless!

[Michale32086]

I already posted a link to the facts.... See below (or ABOVE depending on how you SORT).

In general, both Partys are to blame for the sad state of our economy and our country..

However, in the specific instance of the Wall Street bailout, it's clear from the facts, that the Democrats are to blame for that...

Hope that clears things up for you..

Michale...

[Michale32086]

@DanBest

You can rest assured that, generally speaking, I hold Republicans in as "high regard" as I do Democrats..

I just feel the need to correct the record when someone tries to lay the blame solely at the feet of one party when it's clear that it was the OTHER party that was at fault...

As I said, generally speaking, Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin..

In THIS particular case though, the Wall Street bailout was pushed by Bush and Democrats..

These are the facts...

Michale.....

[realpolitic]

The Wall Street bailout was pushed by Bush and accepted by Democrats and most Republicans. It did pass by the way. More importantly, it was Republican policies of deregulation and 40 to 1 leverage ratios that are to blame. Besides all that, what does the Wall Street bailout have to do with not finding a solution to the auto manufacturer's crisis simply because unions would not captulate on making the same salaries as they do in non-unionized Southern, foreign-owned plants?

And you have not addressed any of the points made in the article about foreign governments picking up the health care costs of their workers, thus making foreign auto manufacturers more competitive with American manufacturers. Also, you have not addressed the fact that the Big Three are older firms thus having higher legacy costs. Please no more generalities!

[Michale32086]

Once again, I won't allow you to re-write recent history..

The Wall Street bailout was pushed by Bush AND Democrats... The Republicans only jumped on board when Democrats added a bunch of Patriot Act additions...

These are the facts..

}}}}
More importantly, it was Republican policies of deregulation and 40 to 1 leverage ratios that are to blame.
{{{{{

Not according to President Clinton. According to him, it was the Democrats who fought him and the GOP when regulations were proposed...

Those are Clinton's words, not mine.. If you have a beef with that, take it up with him..

Michale.....

[ohioan73]

Republicans most certainly did not bail out Wall Street. The albatross they wear is because of their anti labor union sentiments which are grating on the nerves of the struggling middle class right now. It appears to be just an opportune stab at labor unions as per all the discussion about their $75 an hour wages (not true. they make around $30 per hour) and such. It does look like its shaping up to be a class war. Democrats (poor) -vs- Republicans (rich). Its very divisive and the last thing America needs right now.