When I Think of Tibet
As the weeks go by and tensions and violence escalate in Tibet, it makes me more and more anxious. Tibet is a beautiful, mysterious country. I visited many years ago, and although there were always problems (I remember one incident when my travel party was delayed for several hours because of public executions!!) it was much calmer than it is now.
There isn't enough air, which makes everyone who is just visiting a little high. To add to the trippy nature of the place, pretty much every site is religious. Even the graffiti is of different incarnations of Buddha - painted all over the sides of mountain rocks. If you felt sick, you were encouraged to meditate on the cool, indigo blue medicine Buddha, the deity whose color reminded me of the Milk of Magnesia bottle, whose image would soothe, coat and relieve as you pondered upon it. Tibet has the most challenging toilets in the world. I have been everywhere and I can attest to that! Hands down, Tibet is the number one worst place to go number two.
But to counter that, Tibet has the best-looking people in the world. They are Asian but with light eyes! Like green and blue! So everyone kind of looks like they are wearing contacts but they are not. I remember sitting in the courtyard of the Drepung monastery, watching all the gorgeously hot monks draped in their deep red robes, flinging their prayer beads at each other as they argued about philosophy while trying to steal looks at us at the same time. I know you aren't supposed to hit on celibate people so I just sat on my hands the whole time and tried not to make eye contact for more than three seconds. Girl, it was hard!
I also loved the dog monastery, a special temple for wayward monks who have reincarnated into dogs. The grounds are covered in dogs of every size and shape and breed and hue, silently pondering the cycle of birth and rebirth. Squirming litters of puppies wriggle underneath their dog mothers and their distinguished elders nap in the patches of sun breaking through the clouds. There is no barking, no howling, no fighting, and miracles of miracles -- no poo! -- nothing but the quiet mediation of dogs and monks. You are allowed to feed the dogs small pieces of dough, and they actually wait in line! When I think of Tibet, I remember the politeness of the dogs, pulling back their dog lips and ever so gently taking the food from my hand with their open teeth, not wanting to bite my hand accidentally and then looking warmly into my eyes with a silent thanks. The thought of rioting and looting and blood in the streets there is too painful to comprehend.
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So here's the deal: The PRC trolls with their various alter ego screen names, are ordered by their version of the Commintern (central ruling committee) to police any blog that references Tibet. We've seen how thorough they can be here. And it is not merely a "loss of face" that drives them to protect the image of the "New China" just in time for the games. They also work to prevent a loss of control--over Tibet, Mongolia, other provinces that have shown a distinct aversion to the tyrannical rule of the PRC, and over their meme in the Media.
Many of us have posted historic documents that prove beyond any doubt that Tibet has been a free and independent country. Unfortunately, these operatives of the PRC have a revisionist History of their own, and selective memory as well. They will point with pride to the 5,000 years of Chinese Civilization (conveniently forgetting, of course, that the birth place of humankind is in Africa) and use that glorious history as a blunt instrument to beat the notion of Freedom and self determination out of their subjects and out of the news, as well.
But, when confronted with Historic Fact regarding Tibet and its relationship with China and its other neighbors, they're like a person who suddenly can't remember where they placed their car keys this morning! Selective memory. Don't worry though, Trolls, we have long and excellent memories, and this wonderful internet on which to share them.
Dear RuleofLaw,
You have not told me where did you get that piece of information about Tibet was never part of history.
Most of my posts here have links to the non pr-China resources. Here it is again
http://www
By way, I agree with you about China has 5000-year-history has a little to do with Tibet issue
A bit of googling should show you that..
Rule of Law, you seem like an intelligent, well-meaning sort, who has gotten a little exasperated with all the responses from left and right field your posts have generated, and as a result have fallen back on disbelief that the responses you are getting are authentic.
Regarding your statement of "historic documents that prove beyond any doubt", I'm afraid your assertion doesn't cut it. I'm not going to try to argue the other side to "prove" that point. I will just refer you to the following:
John Power's "History As Propaganda: Tibetan Exiles versus the People's Republic of China" http://www
(cont'd in next post)
Some of you fellas sure spent an awful lot of time in these blogs must be just doing your job. Relax.
Hey Jonahson, talk about doing your job--make sure they pay you in Euros, and not yuan, because when America tanks, so will you guys.
Egoistic fella aren't always wanting to have the last say. Arm with a smattering of knowledge from the net, and a good command of English you go forth and fight injustice.
There is something missing in your zest for conquest. You have all the ingredients to be a great warrior but lack a heart. Without compassion you can conquer a nation, in the end you leave a trail of destruction and death. Without compassion you can win through your arrogance but you cannot gain people's acceptance.
Here is a parting message to you before I move on. Ego cannot help you when you are suffering, time decay all matters including ego. Ego is a state of delusion where you think you are right all the time. The moment you admit your mistake you are free from the clutches of ego.
test
A little more history re treaties showing the sovereignty of Tibet:
TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND ALLIANCE
Concluded Between the Government
of Mongolia and Tibet at Urga
29 December 1912 (11 January 1913)
Mongolia and Thibet, having freed themselves from the dynasty of the Manchus and separated from China, have formed their own independent States, and, having in view that both States from time immemorial have professed one and the same religion, with a view to strengthening their historic and mutual friendship'have made the following agreement.
Article 1. The ruler of Thibet, Dalai Lama, approves and recognizes the formation of an independent Mongol State, and the proclamation, in the year of the pig and the ninth day of the eleventh month, of Chjebzun Damba Lama of the yellow faith as ruler of the country.
Article 2. The ruler of the Mongol people, Chjebzun Damba Lama, approves and recognizes the formation of an independent (Thibetan) State and the proclamation of the Dalai Lama as ruler of Thibet.
Rule of Law - once upon a time Tibet was a large empire. Now it isn't. Once upon a time Texas and other border states belonged to Mexico. Now they don't. Once upon a time Britain ruled America. Now it doesn't. Britain drew some lines on a map and lo and behold Iraq and Iran were created.
Slavery is not a part of the distant past of Tibet. China ain't perfect and a lot of people died as it tried to find its way back to being free of Western control but it has managed to do so. They were forced to buy opium by the British who also compelled them to pay for the costs of the wars to the British. Rule of Law, if America had a pristine history that would be cause for wonder. Even to-day you have a presidential candidate apologizing for not wanting to have a day to celebrate Martin Luther King's amazing fight for the right of blacks to sit at the front of the bus.
And this one is especially pertinent as it involve China,directly:
THE SINO-TIBETAN TREATY OF 821/823 A.D.
Translated from the inscription on the west face of the stone pillar at Lhasa
The great king of Tibet, the Divine Manifestation, the b Tsan-po and the great king of China, the Chinese ruler Hwang Te, Nephew and Uncle, having consulted about the alliance of their dominions have made a great treaty and ratified the agreement. In order that it may never be changed, so that it may be celebrated in every age and every generation the terms of the agreement have been inscribed on a stone pillar.
The Divine Manifestation, the bTsan-po, Khri gTsug-Ide-brtsan himself and the Chinese Ruler, B'un B''u, He'u Tig Hwang Te, their majesties the Nephew and the Uncle, have renewed the respectful courtesies of their old friendship. Having consulted to consolidate still further the measure of neighbourly contentment they have made a great treaty. Both Tibet and China shall keep the country and frontiers of which they are now in possession. The whole region to the east of that being the country of Great Tibet, from either side of that frontier there shall be no warfare, no hostile invasions, and no seizure of territory.
Here is a piece of propaganda from the US government. Please pay attention when 3:45 come up.
http://www
Well, that definitely settles. Sorry Tibetans, it appears you have no choice but to submit to Chinese rule, with no representation or self-determination for the rest of time. You have to submit to having your lands confiscated by Han settlers and your culture undermined by your Han rulers. Because in 1944, the US government put out a piece of propaganda referring to Tibet as part of China. (All sarcasm fully intended).
Who cares what the US though of Tibeten sovereignty in 1944?
What matters TODAY is the will of the Tibetan people. And TODAY, the Tibetan people are tired of being governed by the Han, with no voice in their own local or state affairs. They are tired today of having their traditional lands confiscated for Han settlement and their capital city being redesigned to fit the vision of their Han dictators. They no longer wish to be oppressed by the Chinese, TODAY. Regardless of what the US thought over 75 years ago. And quite frankly, I can understand where they are coming from.
Way to hang in there Cyanara! As I tried to express about history: It's one thing to use it as a guide for the future, quite another to continually flog it about as as justification for the present.
Gandhi was able to throw off the oppression of the Worlds largest Empire. His advantage was having the press record their plight ,and the press was free to go there and report. While the Tibetans have tried for over 50 years to resist, they are isolated, no one sees the destruction, and no one, including our hypocritical president, cares.
As long as those people keep their heads down and avoid making problems for their New Chinese Masters, then everyone is happy--happy to ignore them, happy to talk about freedom while doing nothing to assist it. But, with the increased coverage and interest in the PRC due to the Olympics, the bright light of the media has been directed upon Tibet as they protest, as many other a nation has, their enslavement--and what a perfect time to do it.
And, btw--China is not the oldest culture in the world--that honor would belong to some people we know as Africans who had Empires when the Chinese were still learning to make fire. The French had Napolean, the Greeks their time, the Assyrians--recent excavations indicate 7,000 year old civilizations, and on and on. When people continue to look to the Past as a justification for the present, it shows a weakness of character and a blindness that will darken their future. And using words like power, force, will and strength regarding that future, smacks of Empire and will not make you any friends here.
And while the flurry of responses to my posts are pending, I'm wondering how many more days we can keep these spooks (as in agents) on HuffPo grinding away in the name of the People's Republic! LOL
Rule of Law;
Gandhi achieved nothing. The caste system is stronger than ever and there are more Untouchables than ever. The poor are just as poor but there are more of them. Gandhi really didn't give a good god damn about British rule. He didn't even oust the British. That was achieved because the British could not rule their empire after the war and India was abandoned to a period of incredible murder and mayhem as Hindus and Moslems set about killing each other. The result was the creation of Pakistan, a country which is neither stable nor democratic not pro West.. Pakistan then engaged in a war between its eastern side and its western side resulting in the formation of Bangladesh where poverty is so great it hardly can be described. Rule of Law do try to stick to the facts and stop sounding like a champion for whatever it is. China isn't perfect. It dfoes control its press. It has to since, unlike its American counterpart, its citizens do not accept everything the governmet does as justifiable and the best in the best of all possible worlds.
wow. Gandhi achieved nothing ? Caste system is stronger than ever ? Gandhi did not try to abolish caste system or something or untouchability. his main forte was fighting the british. He served as inspiration for Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr. etc. do you even mean it ? or do you know what you are blithering here ? Untouchables are more than ever ? clearly you are smoking something. Why British could not rule because Indians gave them lot of trouble thru civil disobedience. while you request rule of law to stick to facts, why don't you too ? china is a society which mao zedong rebuilt based on chinese history. han ming and other dynasties controlled the people. for centuries chinese people have been silenced by either kings or landlords. Buddhist monks empowered them with martial arts and gave them courage to revolt. This is depicted in many chinese movies. An ethnic chinese agreed with my observation on Mao's suppression of chinese.
Are you seriously factually challenged? This comes from not knowing what you are talking about.. Due to the affirmative action programs, 88% of everything goes to so called lower castes.. and you are saying the caste system exists? Do you even know what that is?
And did you just justify control of free press as "good" for China? Wow you are demented my friend. If you are in US, I suggest you leave, we dont need people who dont believe in the American way of life..
Lets not forget Indus valley and Mehrgarh that predate these great civilizations mentioned above.. and as per the common knowledge passed down from these, it is common knowledge in India that Tibet was never part of China... Indian kings in the past have had relationships with Tibet as an independent and sovereign entity..
Bush--I spit on his name--has said that he supports the spread of Democracy around the world. Or maybe just to oil rich countries, can't be too sure. He is a fan of self determination and the cause of Freedom. He has said he will go anywhere to fight the forces of Evil and defeat terrorists--except maybe Saudi Arabia where 15 of the 19 alleged Twin Towers attackers are from, and apparently, countries like Tibet that are terrorized daily by an oppressive Empire that holds the bulk of our debt. Mixed messages, to be sure!
The one idea I wanted to refute on this board, was the notion that Tibet, according to all the China apologists and trolls, has always been a part of the Country once known as China, now the PRC. That is a lie!!! History proves it. So you can stop now. If the borders of the world did not change, then China and most of Europe would be run by the Mongols, America by the Native Americans, etc etc etc. The mere fact that Tibet has existed as a full and independent Nation for long periods within the last few Centuries, and one that the pre-communist Chinese recognized, fully, says that anything else regarding their Freedom and self determination is a Lie.
Read this...the
"Twelve Suggestions for Dealing with the Tibetan Situation, by Some Chinese Intellectuals"
http://blo
The FIDH (International Federation of Human Rights)
It represents a network of 155 organizations that defend human rights around the world. Since 1922 FIDH has been active in the combat against all forms of injustice, intolerance, racism, and discrimination. FIDH acts to protect victims of human rights abuses, the prevention of these abuses, and in the pursuit of their authors.
rk, great post and link. It is, I think, a step in the right direction.
See Deepak Chopra's post on this site for more info.
http://www
I do not agree with his ultimate solution. We may have to just sit back and be patient instead of engaging the Chinese. The best thing we can do is preserve their culture as best we can in India.
Croatiancritter - I have to ask why we should want to preserve their culture. And if we did we would have to say that they were a tributary nation of China and the Dalai Lama had a replica of his palace in Lhasa built for him in Chengde. The Chinese once had to wear pigtails and kao tao to the emperor. Was that something to preserve? Cultures change and vanish or merge. Thank goodness for that. I mean do you want or wish for the culture of the prewar south or even of America in 1950? Thank goodness it is largely gone.
Its not about "us" doing anything. Its about the Han government giving the Tibetans the right to decide what THEY want to do with their culture and government. Whats wrong with Tibetans deciding their own destiny, instead of the Han government determining it for them?
Griping over history on this blog is useless. The Tibetan empire did exist and through much of its history, Tibet has not been recognized as a sovereign, independent state. I have respect for the Dalai Lama and his position on Tibet's repression but unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world. Through thousands of years of history and human warfare, many clans and specific groups of people have wanted freedom but had to deal with imperial ambitions. Sovereignty may come to Tibet but not until the Chinese empire ends or has a reformed, open-minded leader that grants them their freedom. Until then, there is no reason to engage in violence against a stronger, more dominant foe. The Dalai Lama believes in the ideas of non-violence. We need to keep this in mind when discussing Tibet and its future.
"open-minded leader that grants them their freedom."
As one of the leaders of our revolution once said--Freedom can never be Given! It must be taken. And we, America, won against the world's most powerful Empire. It can be done.
Your two posts are filled with defeatist rhetoric. It is so similar in attitude to that of the European Jews during the Holocaust--If we are good Germans, or Poles or Czechs, we can wait this thing out and survive. But we know what happened there, don't we?
Hopefully, in this instance, and given their unique sensibilities, we will see this resolved peaceably. And I disagree about the importance of history in establishing the rights of a people to be Free! It is not "useless," but necessary to confront the continued layering over of the truth with lies. We've seen firsthand in our own country what that can bring.
Rule Of Law - Did you say freedom can never be given it must be taken? If only the Vietnamese had been able to cite that line. Or the Iraqis.
You guys like History--here's a little--
During the reign of King Trisong Detsen (755-97) the Tibetan Empire was at its peak and its armies invaded China and several Central Asian countries. In 763 the Tibetans seized the then Chinese capital at Ch'ang-an (present day Xian). As the Chinese Emperor had fled, the Tibetans appointed a new Emperor. This memorable victory has been preserved for posterity in the Zhol Doring in Lhasa and reads, in part:
"King Trisong Detsen, being a profound man, whatever he did for the kingdom was completely successful. He conguered and held under his sway many districts and fortresses of China. The Chinese Emperor, Hehu Ki Wang and his ministers were terrified. They offered a perpetual yearly tribute of 50,000 rolls of silk and China was obliged to pay this tribute.
The Ming Emperor received the Dalai Lama as an independent sovereign and as an equal. It is recorded that he went out of his capital to meet the Dalai Lama and that he had an inclined pathway built over the city wall so that the Dalai Lama could enter Peking without going through a gate.
In 1642, the Fifth Dalai Lama, Ngawang Lozang Gyatso, assumed both spiritual and temporal authority over Tibet. The Emperor of China not only accepted the Dalai Lama as an independent sovereign but also as a Divinity on Earth. In return the Dalai Lama used his influence to bring the warlike Mongols into acknowledging the Emperor's sway in China.
Hi Rule Of Law,
I love history. Would you please give me a link about where this piece of information from?
Thanks!
Margaret,
I love your work and admire you greatly. But you and the people posting most of the comments are just sadly misinformed. Visiting a country and a region for a few days does not tell you the whole story.
Do some research and you will know that China has ruled the Tibetan Plateau through the Yuan, Ming and Ching Emperors. The region and system has been around 5000 years, long before The Dalai Lama and the monastery and the monks. To disbelieve anything else is just plain wrong.
There are good monks and bad monks. Just like Islam. To see a bald head in a gold robe, and say "that is a peaceful, kind, spiritual monk" does not tell the whole story.
I just returned from Beijing Friday and the Chinese cannot understand the hypocrisy. They are miffed that Nancy Pelosi can call for the end to the needless violence in Tibet, yet remain silent as America kills, maims, and destroys innocent lives in Iraq and Afghanistan every day?
Umm. So what if Tibet had been ruled by China for thousands of years? Isn't it their right of self-determination to say that they do not choose to be ruled by China today? If a people wish to be self-governed and not governed by another people ( i.e. the Communist Party of China) what wrong with that?
As for your assumption that Tibet has been "governed" by China for thousands of years, thats tenuous,. Yes, there were times when China had a physical presence in Tibet, but for most of history, it did not. Just because some Chinese mapmaker drew a map of their country and included Tibet inside its borders doesn't mean that China physically ruled Tibet. Thats like saying because Spain and Portugal once drew a map of the world with every country outside of outside of Europe in the domain of one or the other that they truly ruled the whole world. Just because some mapmaker drew it, doesn't make it so.
Its false logic to say that just because there is a war going on in Iraq, we cannot protest the oppression of a people in another part of the world. I protest the Iraq war whenever possible, and I have since the beginning. ITo me, to protest the US imperialism of Iraq, and not condone it in other parts of the world, would be hypocracy. In my mind, all people have the right to self determination, here, in Iraq, and China.
Sure. And let's give California back to Mexico if they ask for it. And how about Manhattan back to the Native Americans if they ask for it. And how are those reparations coming along for hundreds of years of slavery, hmm?
I do agree with you that Tibetans need to have more self-determination. The Dalai Lama and the Beijing Central government need to sit down and talk.
cynara wrote "all people have the right to self determination, here, in Iraq, and China."
If you want to support the right of self determination, then please support the Moorish Nation, who are "uniting and nationalizing over 40 million indigenous people of North America under the Moroccan Banner. The Nation of Moorish-Americans calls all free Negroes of the African race to reclaim their nationality. Free Negroes of the African race are not technically "citizens" within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States."
http://www
From this perspective, people like Obama are propagandists for the U.S. government who want to keep the rest of the minority population enslaved under an unjust system.
Why do most Americans of good will prefer to support someone like Obama calling for racial harmony and reconciliation? Don't you think Chinese are entitled to racial harmony and integration rather than separatism and segregation?
Why don't you support the Moorish Nation's aims? It's closer to home.
That is wrong.... China never ruled Tibet... There was no 'China' per say... The Chinese signed a treaty with the British to leave tibet alone(and autonomous) and respect the McMohan line in 1915.
The broke it first in 1951 and then 1959..
YOu need to do some googling..
You are seriously delusional buddy.
I am have studied in depth Chinese History.
There was no China per se?
Do you know who Emperor Wu Di was?
Maybe you should do some googling of your own?
Try learning about The Warring States Period in 475 B.C.
Try learning about the Qin Dynasty (where the word China comes from) in 221 B.C.
I could give you a 6 hour lesson. But I will let you start with those morsels. Smart guy!
Um, no. It is fact that Tibet has never been recognized as an nation independent of China. This is a relationship that goes back centuries.
Enticer - you really are making it all a bit ridiculous. No China. And the British drew yet another line on yet another map and told the Chinese to leave Tibet alone. Too bad they didn't tell the Americans that when they went to war with Mexico, Canada and a myriad of other countries.
More propaganda courtesy of the PRC.
Yes, DougMontreal, anything critical of the China-bashing is called PRC propaganda, even if it is true, just like voices against the Iraq war were labeled as Saddam's propaganda.
Meanwhile, Iraqi exiles like Chalabi were lionized in the media as "the George Washington of Iraq" http://que
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....
Doug - more facts but that shouldn't get in the way of your thinking.
shanghaislim
Cut the crap. The Chinese have been brutalizing Tibetans since the 1940s. Chairman Mao was to be commended for bringing the majority of the Chinese people out of abject poverty, but then acted as a brute by oppressing and killing the Tibetans. Why did he do it? I think because he was Chinese and the Tibetans were not.
Remember what happened to the Chinese people when the Japanese invaded during WWII? Seems like the Chinese leaned nothing from the atrocities visited upon them. People seem to always remember what was done to them, but don't think twice about doing the same to others.
and on........ in 1959 the Chinese brutally crushed the Tibetans, who had risen up to protest 10 years of Chinese occupation. At that time, the Chinese killed 10,000 Tibetans and destroyed many monestaries temples, before turing the area into a Chinese Military Camp.
In the last few years, the Chinese have cooked up a better way, by constructing a railway all the way to Tibet - to flood it with tacky Chinese tourists and gaudy Chinese shops. If this doesn't destroy the Tibetan Culture once and for all, nothing will. Of course, if there are any minerals in the area, the Chinese will simply "hire" the Tibetans to work for slave wages - just like millions of Chinese do today in China Proper.
And then in the last few weeks, protests broke out in Tibet.....
This is the sad state of most of the world right now. The many wrongs elsewhere don't excuse Chinese brutality.
By the way, Shanghaislim, there is no comparison between a Tibetan monk and an Islamic extremist who can't wait to blow himself up in the mistaken belief that he's "pleasing Allah."
I'm the first to admit that I, we as a nation, don't know as much about Tibet as we should. And the reason for that is quite simple; since 1959 there has been really only one voice speaking about the issue, the Dalai Lama, as all others from the region have been held captive behind a "snow curtain."
Rather than go over what we don't know, I'll point out what we do. Since the demonstrations began, whenever an article appears on HuffPo regarding Tibet, there is a sudden and savage gang-blogging from the People's Republic of China. Many screen names that seem to have been born yesterday, several that appear on any Tibet blog and no where else, and you can track them through the blogosphere by their obvious poor usage of English (not an offense in itself--my own father's first language was not English) the common thread they all espouse regarding the greatness of the PRC, the savageness of the Tibetans, and a general condescending and belittling attitude toward posters who have defended Tibet.
This is a concerted and premeditated effort on the part of the PRC to contain the issue and give it a pro China spin. As such I suggest that we all take those posts with a very large grain of salt, consider the source, and continue to do our homework on this important world issue. Freedom should not be just for some people and tyranny must be challenged wherever it is found.
Well, I think it much more likely that they are private citizens, who are Chinese. Most likely students or immigrants to the US and Canada. I don't know how many Chinese in the PRC would know HuffPo.
I have been shocked, for my part, at how QUICKLY China went under the bus. And the unthinking acceptance of the Western bias in reporting the unrest in Tibet. EVERY PHOTO you see of kicking screaming monks hauled off by police is taken in NEPAL, INDIA or elsewhere -- not China. You can tell because of the blue-gray uniforms. But most people accept the images as FACT, because they think 'it might as well be true'.
And I will tell you right now, the same MSM that led us all by the nose on the War, on Bush, and on the election cycle is leading you by the nose on framing the Tibet/China issues. Yes, China needs to fix their Tibet policy. This will take Beijing and the DL both. But Tibets population is higher than its ever been, and their life expectancy is DOUBLE what it was under the Dalai Lama. They can get educations -- girls too. And they do not have to be monks in order to succeed in society. There is a higher concentration of Buddhists in Tibet than ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD. It's not all bad news about Tibet.
The Chinese government has done some good things for Tibet, but if Tibetans are rioting, it is because they are not content with the current state of Tibetan/Chinese relations. Namely, that China rules over Tibet and the Tibetans have little say in their own government. Also, China is importing Han settlers on to land that once belong to Tibetans. These are valid grievances. Regardless of what China has done right, they have also undermined Tibetan pride, culture, and self-determination, which is enough to make people unhappy and resentful.
I didn't approve of the war in Iraq - I railed against it before it happened, while it happened, and today.
And I don't approve of China's heavy handling of Tibet either.
As for actual footage, here is a clip from ABC:
http://www
ashen, first, even in the PRC they know how to Google--You put Tibet plus China and you get it all--easy, yes? 2nd, no one has thrown China under the bus. That is like Hillary saying she hasn't gotten a fair shake from the Media in order to spin and distort the facts. We are only holding China to the same standards we ( and by we, I mean those on HuffPo who genuinely regret the acts of the Bush Regime, the genocide in Darfur, the killing in Myanmar etc...) and demand accountability from any tyrants who try to suppress the freedoms we all desire.
The rest of your post is just fluff and I won't take the time to respond to it.
Rule of Law - It is not spin and I do hope my English meets or even betters the standards you seem to feel people should have. However, you may be sure that I am not and never have been Asian or Chinese. In fact, if I were Chinese I would not be responding to this blog. I simply object strenuously to the suden interest in Tibet especially when nobody gave a tinker's damn a month ago and yet the Tibetans lived under China then. If you feel that a country which embraced slavery and was ruled by a bunch of monks who ate well while the rest of the population starved feel free to say you do. Just don't forget to be outraged by Nicaragua or Iraq or Mexico etc. Perhaps you feel we should all regress to the culture of the Dark Ages.
Will somebody please tell China that the days of colonialism and imperialism are over? Will somebody please tell Bush too while you're at it?
I'd like to tell'em both, but neither are very good at listening.
Since I was a young teenager, I've always wanted to travel to Tibet. I fear with each day however, a little more Tibet gets mowed down by oppressive China. When I finally get a chance to visit, will I be able to glance upon the Dharma Wheel at Jokhang Temple? Or take a snapshot of Patola Palace? The current attention placed on that region of the World gives me mixed feelings. One part of me is happy that awareness is being raised towards the plight of Tibet and its people. On the other hand, I fear it will only fuel Chinese oppression.
http://iea
Go to Tibet, and see for yourself. And help people remember what is important. There are tremendous pressures on Tibet -- all over China -- you can be a good force by keeping an open mind and heart. There is oppression, but it isn't simply the Chinese hating Tibetans. The Chinese are struggling with development and breakneck growth, and too much is being lost, all over China.
Kenai - I would like to have seen the wall around Beijing (then called Peking) but that will never happen. It is gone and Beijing is largely very modern buildings. The palace still exists as does the marble boat the last empress built with the funds intended for the creation of a navy which could repel the foreigners who were either intent on converting China to Christianity and Western ways or were intent on making as much money as they could regardless of the wishes of the Chinese government. While everybody talks endlessly about what the Germans did in WW 11 no one has the slightest idea of what the Japanese did. The Japanese refuse to admit to the atrocities and the Americans made a deal which meant they didn't have to suffer the humiliation of war trials Sorry but the ignorance of people on this blog is truly sad and scary. Why don't you google Nanking Massacre.
Why has nobody noticed that it's only the monks protesting and not the rest of the Tibetans? Hmm... maybe because Tibetans like having food, water, electricity, shelter and not living like serfs liveleak.c
It would behoove you to learn more about Tiananmen Square. I'm not here to defend China for many reasons -- and I see many similarities in China's hosting of the Olympics this year and that of Berlin's in 1936 -- but what really sickens me is a bunch of pseudo-int
You've shown, ReallyEvilCanine, that it's you who has no real knowledge of what's happening in Tibet besides some video you've seen on LiveLeak. I worked for the International Campaign for Tibet in DC, have met the Dalai Lama and many many other Tibetans, and still support and work with the issue of Tibet. The Dalai Lama himself admits that the economic and political situation in Tibet up until the early 20th century was backward. However, you could not be more wrong when you say that it's only monks who are protesting in Tibet. That's an incredibly false statement. There have been protests all over Tibet by monks and laypeople alike. Monks and nonmonks have been imprisoned and killed over the last few weeks by the Chinese. And even before Tibet has been all over the news the past few weeks, the situation inside of Tibet is dire. Many Tibetans, again monk and nonmonks, have been imprisoned by the Chinese and tortured. I have met 2 Tibetan women who were prisoners and were badly beaten. And the world still has no idea where the Panchen Lama, the second most important religious position for Tibetans, is being held. He was kidnapped by the Chinese as a small boy and became the youngest political prisoner in the world.
So please, your defense of China in any form is a little sickening. Especially when you really seem to have no idea what you're talking about.
Well, the violence in Tibet that resulted in 22 people dead, including children, was from young male Tibetans. Not monks.
Do you have evidence of the killings of Tibetans by the Chinese? I am serious.
Because the TYC keep claiming it to be true, but I don't see how they know if they are not in China. You know of course they have been planning these protests for months? And that they do not reject violence?
That is really terrible to hear Welly. It sounds as bad as Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. I am shocked. Just shocked.
Why not have a real debate? Instead of postulating how 'people really love China' and the 'monks are spreading hate' why not talk about the real issues?
China has been an evil, monopolistic regime for a long time now. We all know how it treats its own citizens, imagine what they do to people of poor neighboring countries. India could have stopped this, but Indian leaders have always suffered from myopia that dogs them to this day.
Not many people are aware (and a little googling will show you this) that India was chosen to be one of the 5 members on the Security Council on the UN, yet they refused in deference to CHina, saying China was the bigger of the two brothers. Well the brotherhood was strengthned in 1951 (and finally in 1959 ) when Nehru gave Tibet to China and didnt lift a finger to help the Tibetans. Then in 1962 China attacked it's brother breaking the Panchasheel treaty they signed with India.
Google this before you post another inane comment.
Talking about myopic?
Why do you go back only 50 or 60 years in the History of a country that has been around for 2000 years as China and 5000 years as the founding peoples of the region?
It is laughable that you state "India gave Tibet to China."
Do some research on history before the 20th century.
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