As followers of Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit, true Christians say and pray: "God Bless America," and many are now saying and praying "God Please Help the US."
However, the Holy Spirit of God would never inspire a true follower of Jesus Christ to say or pray "God Damn American" in any context, much less as part of a taped public sermon.
Holy Scriptures say to test the spirits (1 John 4:1). Reverend Wright obviously has a fiery spirit that is condemning at times, particuarly when he curses our nation in public sermons. It is certaintly not Christ-like or characteristic of the Holy Spirit.
Sentor Obama apparently does not say or pray "God Damn America," but most of his life has trusted and tollerated this particular pastor. Although Reverend Wright is retiring, he will remain as Senior Pastor, and his replacement essentially agrees with him in spirit and truth.
There is reason to not trust the spirit in which Reverend Wright said the things he said, and so there is reason to question the spirit leading the youthfull Senator Obama as a professed Christian and prospective president of our nation. May God"s Holy Spirit be our guide.
Hope Page: itsallaboutjesusnotme.blogspot.com
I haven't been following the to-do about Barack Obama's preacher-man very closely, because I've already read enough to know this: people who think that Wright's words have anything to say about Obama don't just misunderstand Obama -- whose record on racial harmony seems pretty unassailable -- but they also misunderstand religion, too. And they misunderstand religion in a way typical of smug, myopic Americans.
Let me explain.
There is, underlying all the debate about whether Obama should be held accountable for Wright's sermons, or for the "judgment" involved in being so close to such a man, a pretty stark assumption about what religion is, and how it functions in people's lives. In short, you only think Wright matters is you think that Obama attends Trinity Church because of the beliefs taught there. And while it might seem obvious that people choose a church (or synagogue, or mosque) because they agree with its teachings, that's not necessarily the case. In fact, I'd argue that for most people the beliefs of their church are a small, often insignificant part of why they attend.
They might attend because of the community there. They might attend because the church, like the evangelical congregation I hear advertised on WEHM-FM out of Long Island from time to time, offers free baby-sitting, plus a short service so you can "get home in time for the big game." They might attend because of a cultural loyalty--and this can be true of Jews or Muslims or even Norwegian Lutherans, whose church might be their last meaningful tie to the grandparents who came over from Northern Europe. They might attend because the music and ritual are powerful.
They might attend a church with offensive sermons because having a pastor whom they disagree with is more interesting than having a pastor who never says anything controversial.
Americans, however, tend to think of religion in a very Protestant way (even Jews and Catholics make this mistake). And Protestantism, especially the Calvinist kind that set the tone for so much of our history and historiography, is the religion of belief par excellence. In that mold, ritual hardly matters, culture doesn't matter -- what matters is unmediated faith in the Word.
In that American paradigm, attending a church whose pastor you disagree with is total folly. But try telling that to the millions of Catholics who see no contradiction between fidelity to Rome and selective use of its teachings (how many Catholics do you know today with ten children?). Try telling it to Muslims with modern wives and daughters who attend a mosque with an old-world imam whose own daughters cover their heads; they may be worlds away from their imam on religion, even on culture, but attending prayer at the only mosque for miles around can still be a meaningful act.
Even religious practice -- reciting certain prayers -- can be gestural rather than literal. This is not news to philosophers (Wittgenstein articulated this idea quite clearly), and in truth I don't think it's news to most religious people, who even if totally devoted to the literal teachings of their church know others, every bit as faithful in their attendance, who are not. When I hear someone like Laura Ingraham babble on about l'affaire Wright so uncomprehending of these nuances of religious practice, what it tells me is not just that she's silly, but also that she's likely not very religious.
Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to
I too am from New Haven; I didn"t attend Yale I grew up down the street from the hospital. Go out onto the streets away from Yale and ask those narrow minded people their views, I"m sure you will get an earful, yea that should go over real well.
My little Irish mother, confronted her pastor this last summer after a couple of anti-abortion sermons at her church. She was upset and concerned how she would be viewed by her friends, the pastor, and other parishioners, but she did it. She waited after mass, walked up to him and expressed her concerns, that those opinions did not belong in a place of worship and was considering leaving and attending another church.
She didn"t do it because she approves of abortion, but because she believes in woman"s right"s and a woman"s right to choose. She was willing to leave her friends, bake sales, food drives and whatever else she does, because of principal.
We certainly have choices, you can wrap your argument around various descriptions of different religions practices from around the world and their unusual, weird or bizarre customs, but c"mon dude stick to the issue, don"t try to divert attention away from it with academic babble.
This sucks, I vote Dem, but don"t see a general election win with this crap out there.
This is the weakest excuse for the racist comments made by Rev. Wright. If you are Obama and you have repeatedly said that you do not play by the rules of old politics and you say that the Clintons are the bad guys who have injected race into this election, you are hard pressed to explain how you could have included the reverend among your advisors given his rhetoric. It is not just a matter of where you worship or who your pastor is, it is about what Obama says he is.
When you believe in someone it is hard to give up to image that they are perfect, isn't it?
Obama is Toast he his has fallen in the poll by 5 points in just three days, that good news for all of America.
What excuses will Obama-ites going come up with next? First Obama says he didn't separate himself from Rezko because he's not a Washington insider. Huh?
Now Oppenheimer says Obama only went to the same church with the same preacher for 20 years because he found sermons he disagreed with so interesting. Americans, Protestants, Jews and Catholics think of BELIEF as integral to religion but Oppenheimer knows better. The you-know-what is getting deeper by the minute. And we aren't even facing McCain/Rove yet!
If Republicans were said this stuff we'd be calling them idiots and liars. How embarrassing.
And how many times have we heard all of the big televangelists proclaim the wrath of God uipon us all for the sins of many Americans who gamble, fornicate, adulterate, lie in bed with others of the same sex, drink whiskey, smoke, on and on it goes. Hagee has ranted and raved many times in this vein. J. Swaggart, Oral Roberfts, and so manhy others have added fire to the fuel in this regard. Wright has simply followed suit in doing so, the only difference b eing that he has added to the list of "no-nos" the state terrorism practiced by Israel against the Palestinians, in addition to the inequities and iniquities foisted on American Blacks. Seems to me that Rev. Wright has some mighty fine points he has made. It would make me feel better, though, if he would pray that God forgive our white ancestors for what they did to Blacks, and so on, down the line, for the imposition and perpetuation of injustice, suffering, and such travesties which our government has unwittingly and wittingly given the green light for...............throughout the Middle East because of AIPAC pressure. Yes, yes, yes, we need forgiveness. For that reason we need to redress, and get ourselves out of this mess.
Ummmm. I do not recall having seen dates on the video tapes, and it seems that something else is going on here. So many have said how astute, and what a scholarly activist the Reverend Wright is. I do not believe for a moment that he did not understand or expect negative reactions ,and the impact his words would have on the Obama Campaign. I can assure you that there is more to this than immediately meets the eye. Perhaps, Rev. Wright expected to have greater influence upon Barak's positions and policies. This is, afterall, Chicago where rough and tumble special interests is well known. Politics does make strange bed-fellows, and sometimes it is hard to distinguish between the pulpit and the podium.
It was a pre-campaign video. This is just how the guy preaches.
The irony of all of this silliness about Obama's pastor is that for the past several years, liberal radio personalities have repeated over and over almost the exact same things, though not in quite so blunt a manner as Wright. However, for some reason (cultural differences in speech patterns) no one has any problems with a candidate that gets onto an Air America or Nova M show with a host that has essentially said the same thing.
If you carefully rephrased what Wright said in slightly less "hostile" words that are comforting and soothing to white folks, you'd have a surprisingly large number of people agreeing wholeheartedly with what he's saying.
Well said. It's the Scary Black Man tactic so successfully used all the way back to Birth of a Nation. Aren't people tired of falling for the okee doke?
Yep you know that's exactly what it is letuckerchicage. It's the "Scary Angry Radical Extreme Black Man" card
Funny thing is, Obama is BIRACIAL!! He was raised by his white mother and white grandparents. He was raised in Hawaii and Indonesia. Do you really think the media is being fair in raising this issue? Of course not. They want to play the guilt by association card and paing Obama as this closeted militant angry black man.
Another thing is that I use to watch Hagee, Robertson, and Parsley on TBN and they've said the SAME THINGS AND WORSE!! Notice how fair and balanced the media is.
Well Obama still has my vote and full support. He hasn't cheated on his wife, broken the law, is a devoted family man and christian. He worked hard and became successful without having a famous name or status. Obama still has good character and a solid leader.
As a 50 something white female, I'm surprised the Reverend's comments were not harsher. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and if I had been treated the way I saw blacks treated in those days, in Wisconsin no less (not in the deep south),, and by some of my own relatives, I would be at least as angry as the Reverend Wright. What amazes me and what give me hope is that Barack Obama seems to have seen through the uselessness of hatred and anger (unlike some of those posting at this site, or blabbing on TV and talk radio, or campaigning like a vicious demons, for ex: HRC). What's more, it seems to me, the Reverend Wright's way of "preaching" could act as a safety valve for the black community in that with his words he acknowledging the kind of pressures that must surely exist within a group of people who have been discriminated against in subtle and not so subtle ways every day of their lives. I would hope white Americans have enough imagination to imagine what it must have been like for blacks of Reverend Wright's age to grow up in America. Maybe then we might be less critical and more understanding that it is ourselves we should be angry with.
By Ricardo Rose
RGE, News
3.15.2008
A Constitutional Framework for Good
America is populated by multi-ethnic and cultural groups from all parts of the world. We are a global populace base of diverse cultures that has evolved for the last 40,000 years or more. Too often, frivolous discriminations in gender, race and ethnicity subvert the greatness of America. Enduringly, tolerance of one-another is inevitable! Inclusion is the great objective reality!!!
I often meditate on how routinely we publicize to the world . . . that we are the most powerful nation on earth. A super power! A nation governed by the rule of Law! The most advanced democratic-republic in the known civilized world! And yet so often, we undermine the very core principles of our own democracy that we espouse to the world community, as absolute principles for establishing true freedom, liberty and justice for all. Essentially, whenever contradictions and double-standards arise in our policies and treatment of others, it is viewed as insincere and condescending.
It"s no wonder that the de-facto leader of the free world (USA) is impetuously diminishing the value of our esteemed credibility, and respect, at home and abroad. What has happened to our vision of America as the land of compassion, of sharing and of equality before the law? This vision was a "to be goal" to be realized by All! The great democratic experience in our "Constitution" was and is unfolding in the hearts, minds, and souls of men, women and children. Overtime, until the fulfillment of this magnificent vision became realized in an unjust society, the challenge of who would speak for the voiceless still remained? Who would defend the defenseless still remained? Who would speak to the powerful, and yet, possess not power themselves still remained? Well, throughout time, among all people, named and nameless voices did arise to fulfill the need, and they were not of the favored!! And until this very day, they are not the favored!
Bear in mind, a very short time ago, African Americans were slaves and could not vote. It is fair to say that people who were not slaves, did benefit from a sub-human-free labor slave system. And until this very day, a great many of them effortlessly contend that even though slavery was wrong, and inhumane, they felt that shattle slavery was good as compared to elitist governments and their treatment of slaved Africans around the world. And yet, if divine providence were to reverse the roles of the slave and the slave master, surely, a greater sense of justice and fairness would unequivocally give voice and wings to the subjugated!
Generations of freed men and women, during and subsequent to slavery never truly understood the voices and sentiments of slaves and ex-slaves and their ancestors, as they deemed the evils of shattel slavery was so inhumane and generational horrific, that it shall never be repeated in any form, no-where on God"s good earth or the universe. To have been a victim of shattel slavery for whatever the cause, is universally evil, and unjust to the entire planet and the universe.
Therefore, any inhumane system conceived, organized or supported by men/women of nations shall objectively aim for higher goals of raising humanity"s condition to a most excellent state of existence, and to eradicate world hunger, disease, slavery, intolerance, hatred, greed, divisiveness, corruption and ignorance.
Let"s reflect on an unpretentious but very important fact, and that fact is, the world is observing our behavior of-one-another all the time, as we are observing them all the time! You can verily measure how civil and just a people are by the treatment that they tender to their own! Nationwide, the prison population grew by 25,000 last year, bringing it to almost 1.6 million, after three decades of growth that has seen the prison population nearly triple. Another 723,000 people are in local jails. One in 36 adult Hispanic men is behind bars, based on Justice Department figures for 2006. One in 15 adult black men is, too, as is one in nine black men ages 20 to 34.
If there is any one sentence that made America great--as a nation, it is a line from the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States that reads We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The body of the Constitution sets forth a means by which the various cultures of immigrants could be preserved to meld into a uniquely American culture...one that stubbornly refuses to give precedence to any religion, literature, music, art or social institution from any country of origin of the People of the United States. I read the Constitution of the United States with great pride; the Bill of Rights and the various Amendments to it since 1789 make it a world class document.
It is the Constitution of America which protects and encourages the flowering of individual and groups of people out of whom come the real greatness of America; its rich, enlivening and enjoining music, art, science, drama, cinema, literature, comedy, religion and playtime activities. That being said, exactly, what makes America Great, and what is the role the USA plays at home and on the world stage? How can we extend a greater understanding as to who we are and what we stand for?
Well, let"s reflect on at least one present day dilemma that potentially can be worst, or better; there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world. Of which, the overwhelming majority are peaceful and civil. And yes, they are not at war with the USA!! And yet, the media consistently demonizes, well over "1 Billion muslims"!! What ever happened to treating others, as we would have them treat us?? This type of anti-social behavior is very unproductive to international and world relations with diverse cultures, some of which are American citizens.
The question about Senator Obama has been is he a Muslim, yes or no? He"s not a muslim, however, what if senator Obama or senator Clinton were, what"s the problem? In the make believe world of Hollywood, writers and producers create good and bad guys by the dozens everyday. Good guys and bad guy themes help drive the emotions of the consumer, and the movie industry makes a lot of money. So does the media!! At what expense to American citizen"s? Muslims are not an evil to America! Evil is evil, and hurts us all!
The Constitution in clear written language establishes the facts that, stubbornly refuses to give precedence to any religion, literature, music, art or social institution from any country of origin of the People of the United States. The Constitution of America provides that only age and citizenship shall be a test for public office; not wealth, not gender, not race nor yet not ethnic origin.
The Constitution of America protects Americans from the power and purpose of government officials. And yet, politicians, the mass media, the religious community and individuals exploit and abuse these principles of accord. Hopefully, with such potential greatness from free thinking just and balanced minds, we should all affirm our allegiance to the Constitution of the USA and not to our own demise!
Senator Barack Obama taught Constitutional Law, and verily, it is a part of his being. We all have very good reason for electing this highly qualified leader to preside as President of the United States. Consider the fact that he will be leading with the strength and insight of our Constitution. This perfect document is waiting for the right leader to be guided by its principles. Finally these invaluable principles can help create a perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. This country will be well served with Senator Obama"s leadership as a proverbial walking constitution.
Wow I didn't realize Obama could do no wrong! If this happened to either Clinton- people would be calling for their heads. Unbelievable.
With the following track record- I can't see how Obama wouldn't be asked to account for his supporter's hatred-filled beliefs.
Obama hired Donnie McClurkin, an Anti-Gay Pastor, to represent his campaign during his tour through South Carolina.
Jeremiah Wright, the Anti-White, Anti-American Pastor that Obama has faithfully supported for over twenty years now.
Then of course there is Louis Farrakhan, The Anti-Semite Bigot Pastor who seems unable to stop singing Obama"s praises.
And lastly Kirbyjon Caldwell, a pastor who runs an "Ex-Gay" conversion ministry that has also endorsed Obama.
Rev. Wright is neither anti-White nor anti-American. His best friend is Father Michael Pfleger, a White Roman Catholic priest on Chicago's South Side, for crying out loud. Like Rev. Wright, he is passionate about social justice and unafraid to step on toes to speak his mind.
The only "fact" behind all of your statements is pure innuendo.
If there was a guy down the street that told all his buddies that you were a swell guy, but at the same time, was bigoted against black people, would that make YOU a bigot? Think about that for awhile.
If you want to reach out to people who are prejudiced against gay people, are you going to send 20 gay ministers down to the south to preach to them, or are you going to send one popular gospel singer who has said that he doesn't believe in homosexuality, but doesn't condone violence...then follow it up with several acts that preach tolerance AFTER you've gotten those folks in the house to listen?
If you took Wright's sermons, all of about 30 seconds of clips jammed together after 30 years of preaching, and "whitened them up a bit" by removing the harsher language, you'd have a typical day on Air America.
Just because you really like Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't mean that there aren't some giant sized skeletons in her closet too. We've just been too polite to drag them out, unlike yourself.
The problem is we know that Obama delivers one hell of a prepared speech other than that we know very little. The reason for this is that the media was just thrilled to death to have a black man who could possibly be elected that they did no digging at all just accepted him at face value. Fox news did some digging and hit the jackpot if Obama is on the ticket in any way McCain will win the election. This church seem built on hate for white America and the republicans are dancing with glee.
The very fact that you referenced Farce Noise as hitting the jackpot is laughable!! COMICAL!! Farce Noise is full of bigots who hide behing racist southern baptist (evangelicals). Nothing more than a bigotted media smear from Farce Noise.
The Republicans have plenty of skeletons. Ever heard of the Catholic church being called the "great whore"? Trust me, this isn't a road the Rethug/Repigs want to go down. There is WAY TOO MUCH MATERIAL.
I'm sure racists Bob Grant and Hal Turner, whom Hitler Hannity loves doesn't want the fact that he supports them to come out.
Please, don't even get on your high horse. Rethugs better think about being so smug with a weak economy, warrantless wiretapping, a baseless war, 4k lives lost, and thousands of troops wounded is a discussion the rethugs like you would not want to have
Wrong Gibbons! We also know that Obama has out-organized, out-managed your preferred candidate. He has also run the best political campaign this country has every seen.
But we all need to consider this: If after every thing Obama has done, if he cannot get elected as President of the United States, then no Black Man will ever be president of this country. This will forever be a country governed by rich white men.
The church is not built on hatred of whites. There are white members of the congregation. It happens to attract many professionals in the African-American community in Chicago and is a great place to make contacts. It also has a wonderful worship service and a great choir. It also has a television broadcast on cable access in Chicago. I have attended that church, participated in Bible study there and I know Reverend Wright. If you had the opportunity to make a personal visit to the church you would see how the medias manipulation of images and outright distortions are shameful and designed to appeal to the shallow and ignorant - people who jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Wright's preaching style is nothing unusual in certain denominations. These snipets are all out of context and make WRight look like a lunatic to white people. The black Baptist church I was raised in, the preaching style builds rhythmically to a climax just like Wright's. Punctuated by what we call : Call and Response. It's a method that has managed to survive from our African past. It is unusual to find in the United Churches of Christ, but is prominent in black Baptist churches, Church of God in Christ (COGIC) certain Apostolic churches. (known as sanctified churches). Black Methodists, Espicopalians, Presbyterians and Catholics are more restrained in their worship
style. Many whites churches have adopted these styles. Whites who are unaware of these practices are ususually frightened by the shouts and animated ways until they understand what's going on. It really angers me to see how these pundits and media whores are exploiting white ignorance of black culture to undermine Obama. This wonderful institution in the middle of one of the hardcore communities in Chicago and the man who built it are being slandered and ignoramuses are eating it up. It's shameful.
FOX News, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, you'v got to be kidding. Apples don't fall far from the tree.
Read between the lines... The reason we know little without thoroughly researching Obama is because he's always on the defense... this is a well-played strategy.... as long as he's playing defense, he can't play offense. Therefore, if you aren't shooting the ball you can't score. So we hear that Obama is all fluff.. and not a scorer...because his campaign hasn't effectively figured out a way to turn defense play into a fast-break. As long as he's defending, he can't be scoring... Too bad politics doesn't have a "shot clock".... just something to think about... This is why you hear opponents talking about he is just a speech because most of his soundbites are denouncements, reputations or disproving some accusation, never focused on his policies, plans & goals... lol
Speak for yourself. All the info on Obama is available and out there for your perusal. If you choose not to read it, that's not the same as "we know very little about him". That's just YOU knowing very little about him.
Mr. Oppenheimer:
You fail to mention or consider (?) that Wright has been Obama's spiritual mentor and friend for over 20 years; so much so that until last week Wright held a leading position in Obama's campaign! I don't know what kind of nonsense you are trying to spin this into: but I would ask that you have enough respect for your fellow American - to allow them the right to decipher these videos as they see fit. I doubt they need you to interpret what they see, hear and feel - for them! I'm sure you've heard the phrase: If it's looks like a duck ; walks like a duck; quacks like a duck: It's a duck!
Trying to spin it into being anything other than what it is, is an insult on top of an already big enough insult.
Well said. "They might attend a church with offensive sermons because having a pastor whom they disagree with is more interesting than having a pastor who never says anything controversial." What a bunch of H.S. Has Oppenheimer ever even been to church or been a member of a congregation? This is so over-the-top probama it's ridiculous.
This is not news...this has been in the press --especially Chicago --for quite some time. Why it is now a big scoop is curious...And for the record, I couldn't care less what the impassioned pastor says. I care what Barack says and believes.
There is no dispute over the fact that there is a social component to going to church, or that there are theological divisions within churches. That said, if a person is being thoughtful and contemplative, and their pastor, the spiritual leader of their church and the person they identify as their own spiritual adviser, holds views that are antithetical to their own stated beliefs, than I think raises a number of legitimate questions, ranging from the philosophical to the political. I don't think you can just pass it off as saying that your minister is like some dotty old uncle who occasionally shoots off at the mouth.
So, it seems your saying that people (including Obama) go to church for the networking.
I agree.
I don't see how understanding this helps Obama, though.
It should help advance the "stealth Muslim" thing.
Too bad the candidates can't just take God completely out of the equation.
Community and culture is not 'networking'. Networking is meeting people to get ahead in your career. Doing something for the community and/or culture of a group is done to feed your soul, your emotional self. I don't think Obama ever thought (and certainly doesn't now) that joining that church would be a good way to advance his career. Besides which, he has said he's a believer.
Politicians who package themseleves in religious vestments are bad for America.
Obama used his religion to much to win elections in his state and now nationally.
He should be judged and scrutinized for it.
Like Bush , Obamas religious views would determine school funding and other important social legislation. Obama supports Bushes "No Child Left Behind Act" which undermines public school education in favor of religious and private schools. This is bad for the US public school system.
I feel bad for his kids and for mine if he were elected.
You must be getting your news from FOX. Obama does not support "No Child Left Behind," not at all.
I liked the article, but I would just add this.
If qualification to be president in the eyes of those pressing Obama on this is that blind submission to the nearest authority figure. Then those people should not be allowed anywhere near the Whitehouse or any other public office.
Actually, I've been giddy about this all weekend. That silly "Obama-is-a-Muslim" meme? It died at about the 5,000th repetition of "Obama's pastor" on the Clinton Noise Network.
Obama's toast....turn out the lights - the party is over and the fat lady is singing.....the only question now is how will he exit the stage - kicking and screaming or with some grace that will allow the dems a fighting chance in the fall
Posted March 16, 2008 | 11:57 PM (EST)