Campbell Brown Smears MSNBC

When CNN's Campbell Brown played the MSNBC card against Valerie Jarrett, she was engaging in the fallacy of false equivalence. Faux Noise is all slant, all the time, while MSNBC is absolutely not a liberal mirror-image. The slant is not equal, nor do the two channels offset like penalties in a football game. Brown's comparison is a smear.

Yesterday morning on Fox and Friends, there were twenty-two mentions of ACORN, even though there hasn't been any actual news about ACORN in weeks. There were only two dismissive mentions of good economic news. That's their standard template for mornings.

Meanwhile on MSNBC, former Republican congressman Joe Scarborough enjoys the spotlight with Mika Brzezinski, who...well, let's just say that apple fell far from the tree. Alongside Bob Cesca's term "barbecue media," we now have "cupcake media."

And that's just the morning show.

For the rest of the day, regular commentators on MSNBC may include Pat Buchanan, who declared "culture war" in America and says Hitler was misunderstood; Mark Halperin, who said "white men need not apply" for Supreme Court vacancies; Maria Bartiromo, who brings the stupid on health care; Todd Harris, a Republican strategist; Michael Medved, who says your children are being indoctrinated by the Obama administration; Mort Zuckerman, apologist for right-wing West Bank settlers; Michelle Bernard, death panels-for-breast cancer propagandist; and Clifford May, neocon warmonger.

Repeating: these are the guests on MSNBC. There are no equivalent left-wing personalities on Faux Noise. The essential difference is that MSNBC courts controversy with right-wing pundits, while Faux Noise manufactures nontroversy with right-wing pundits. Here's just one example of very, very many:

But let us examine the evening lineup. From his doom bunker, Glenn Beck plays to his adoring audience with racist redbaiting, lunatic chalkboard diagrams, and boiled plastic frogs; Sean Hannity smears without correction; and Bill O'Reilly uses a propaganda technique every four seconds to convince us there's a war on faith in America.

I have yet to see Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, or Rachel Maddow manufacture alarmist nontroversies. Yes, Olbermann had a lot to say about Bush's abuses of power -- but those were real, whereas Faux Noise may scream about abuses of power but they invariably turn out to be projections of fertile imaginations.

Indeed, here is another telling difference between Faux Noise and MSNBC: The latter has been falsely accused of "doctoring" video, while Faux Noise doctors video all the time to invent conspiracies out of thin air. And while a gulf yawns between the editorial MSNBC and the daytime-news MSNBC, there is no such gap at Faux Noise, where Chris Wallace regularly echoes Glenn Beck.

Nor does MSNBC promote astroturf movements. Faux Noise has given tea parties prominent coverage; hosts have invariably praised them, and spread across the country to cover the events. Neal Cavuto was captured on camera inflating crowd figures and a Faux Noise assistant was caught coaching the crowd. When Faux Noise lied about other networks' coverage, Brown's colleague Rick Sanchez famously called them out on it. To date, Sanchez has not had to correct MSNBC for reporting lies as if they were facts.

Faux Noise is, and has always been, a GOP propaganda organization. Party research and talking points appear on air every day -- right down to the typos. On-air personalities routinely use the first-person plural when referring to Republican claims, proudly call themselves "the opposition," and declare "victory" in legislative battles.

Last, but certainly not least, no MSNBC personality has demonized an individual and inspired viewers to kill them. The same cannot be said for Faux Noise.

I should like Mrs. Brown to explain, in detail, exactly how the two channels display anything like the same amount of bias, even opposing bias. I would also ask that she examine the cult-like characteristics of Faux Noise viewers, remember a little history, and tell us how this ends well.

Brown should do that because she's an actual, honest-to-God journalist. Otherwise, we'll be forced to conclude she was inspired by CNN's plummeting ratings to smear a rival network. Any honest examination of Faux Noise can have only one conclusion: it is not a news organization, and what they do is not journalism.

Osborne Ink is a Website of Media Deconstruction

"News that's fairly liberal, but never unbalanced"

 

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Comments

[MsPeppy]

wake up and smell the Lou Dobbs, Campbell

[john donne]

Why does Glenn Beck bother liberals so? I know the reason.

Obama has surrounded himself with radicals, Beck is exposing the facts, and Obama can no longer hide behind a compliant lapdog press.

The personal attack is the Talisman of the Left. Please base your attacks upon Beck on fact, not hyperbole.

Naming the "Glenn Beck Cult" is childish. Alinksy is played out, so move on. dot org.

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Ah, the Alinsky Defense! "Stop making fun of my ludicrous stupidity!"

What bothers me about Beck is that, no matter how untrue the garbage coming out of his mouth is, his fans eagerly lap it up and internalize it. You've got a whole world-view built out of bullshit.

[Whinott2000]

Good grief, that last clip scared the heck out of me! Sadly, the only thing that can combat this kind of media manipulation is something we are in short supply of lately...rational, common sense.

[Angeltour]

MSNBC is WORSE than FOX...it is the OBAMA channel nonstop...they attacked Hillary nonstop during the primaries...the agenda is pro Obama...period...I am a progressive and I can't even listen to the pablum on MSNBC anymore...it is insulting and so obvious...­btw...have you ever tried to listen to Ed Shultz, David Shuster or Larry O'Donnell interview someone? or someone they do not agree with?

It actually hurts your ears...they are the rudist, most overbearing people I have ever seen...so please don't preach about fairness on MSNBC...a person cannot get a word in...they get badgered beyond belief...an embarrassment on TV in the 21st century...

...and then there is Olbermann, Mr Drama and Maddow, Ms Stand Up Comedy...this crew actually make Matthews look moderate...

what a joke...and everyone knows it...that's why so many of us stopped watching...EXCEPT FOR DYLAN RATIGAN...the one honest voice I hear on MSNBC...DYLAN should be in prime time...

[Scribe57]

You know, your post sounds a lot more like Fox's descriptions of MSNBC than what actually occurs on MSNBC.

[chazmanr]

Angeltour, you NEVER watched more than 2 minutes of MSNBC in your life. YOU LIE!

[BBackSoon]

You better check with your Satellite or Cable provider because what you explained sounds nothing like the MSNBC I watch.

[Pinkie e]

Angeltour
I fully agree!

".­btw...have you ever tried to listen to Ed Shultz, David Shuster or Larry O'Donnell interview someone? or someone they do not agree with?"
Exactly .... Shame onNBC & MSNBC...owned by GE who's top CEO sits on Obama's economic recovery board. Conflict of interest here?

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Faux Noise, owned by Rupert Murdoch, the best friend the Chinese communist party ever had.

http://www.osborneink.com/2009/10/one-degree-of-glenn-beck.html

[swift goat pet for truth]

"Brown should do that because she's an actual, honest-to-God journalist."

Then why do I believe Jon Stewart, and not her?

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Check the next sentence; I was being a tad snarky.

[Andre Lieven]

Because The Daily Show bothers to do the WORK of finding the actual FACTS, a task that Chicken Noodle Noise has failed to do for a very long time now... While Faux Noise just makes sh*t up.
And, speaking as a Canadian, with an excellent news organisation called the CBC, I have to laugh at the tools who claim that the current administration is "socialist" or "radical". Next to us, who HAVE a wonderful single payor health care system (One that is BETTER than health care in the US, by the WHO's standards.), I can say with accuracy that American leftists are more like Canadian and European soft rightwingers. By our standards, the US has NO political leftwing "radicals" or "socialists".

[satyriasis]

Great work Matt. The fallacious false equivalency needed to be debunked.

[winningticket]

Matt you are class act. You suffer fools graciously. Great article!

[mattkelly]

After reading a while, one thing is apparent. Fox News has liberals fuming. And for good reason...they're in your face every day. But they may be over-playing their hand.

As you stand in frustration with the Fox News juggernaught, understand that for 40 some-odd years the news, as delivered by ABC, CBS and NBC, had a left-leaning bias on any number of national issues. Unions and "pro-labor" walked hand-in-hand, even while workers accross the nation rejected the organizers. Pro-Education reporting always that of the left...pro­-environme­ntal, social...always the left-sided aspect given on the nightly news. As an example, look at environmental policy. For years, even now, Sierra Club policy was considered "pro-envir­onmental". But if you look at the world, the cleanest countries are those which are the most capitalistic. The filthiest, the most controlled economies. Simplistic? Maybe, but a pro-growth economic policy may lead to better environmental results. However, for years the environmental movement was defined by CBS, ABC and NBC in terms of Silent Spring warnings.

Dan Rather's fall is emblematic of this experience. The country had been lied to. Not for 8 years by the ham-handed Bushies, but by our trusted news anchors. And for multiple decades! So, "We're mad as hell, and we're not taking it anymore".

It has changed in recent years, but to understand the "Dan Rather" legacy is key when considering why the right-leaning media now exists.

[lee4713]

Oh I see now - lying our way into war, taking the cost off-budget, losing the respect of most of the world, letting Halliburton take over, letting Wall Street work its capitalist magic - all of that was ONLY lies spread by the "liberal" media. Gee, I must have been in a coma for eight years!

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Faux Noise doesn't have me fuming. It has me mourning.

The "liberal" bias you see in the press of yesteryear was simply the presence of fact-based reporting; facts have a well-known liberal bias.

1980 was when Americans began to drink Kool-Aid en masse without realizing it. By the end of that decade, news was a corporate brand telling a corporate narrative.

There's no better example than CBS. Nothing in Rather's report on Bush's military record was inaccurate -- NOTHING. The secretary who typed the reports confirmed the substance of the documents and typewriters with superscript DID exist in that unit at that time. Ever since CBS got rid of Rather, the Conservative Bias Shows as Credulous Breathless Stenography.

But that's a whole other column.

[john donne]

I believe the font was the issue. The document was generated by computer. When you compare the Rather documents to actual documents from that time period, the difference is apparent.

The more troubling stories center around Obama's team. I watched Anita Dunn say that she looked to Mao, and I have yet to hear anyone accuse Fox of doctoring or manufacturing the video. If you actually agree with Mao's philosophies, that is fine, just say so. At least we know.

But don't attack Fox for running the story, or playing the infamous "religion and guns" speech. Better these things come to light, right? Better to have all points of view on display in the marketplace of ideas.

[Atl Sam]

It's amazing how people equate pro-labor, pro-education and pro-environment movements are "left leaning". Imagine for a moment if these "movements" had not taken place. Had we not instituted a public education program and fair labor laws, we would be nothing more than mindless robots for corporate America. Wake up people, movements are designed to make it better for the masses. It doesn't lean left or right but towards the majority. We have lost control in this country. You think our Democratic party is left leaning? LOL. Take a look at the conservatives in almost every other country. They would be considered Democrats if they were in America. The problem we have in this country is selfishness. We don't/can't/refuse to acknowledge any problem unless it affects us. Labor, education and environment shouldn't be partisan issues. We should all care to educate our citizens, provide fair labor laws and protect our environment. But I guess anything to keep us divided. While we invading other countries and attempting to change their way of life, it is our country that needs fixing and our ways that need improving. But I guess that's just being unpatriotic, right?

[Pinkie e]

Matt kelly.....­.........W­ell said!
The left has had it their way for so long that any differing news network has become repulsive to them. They scratch their heads wondering what could have gone wrong? They've had 85% of college professors brainwashing students with liberal thinking, all unions, all the main news media,including TV and newspapers siding in with them. Go FOX NEWS...don't be intimidated by the left....keep them fuming !

[1will]

Hmmmm.......after reading the column you would think there are no Liberal guests on Foxnews. That is false and this column is very misleading. Fox has Libs on all day and the talking heads in the evening constantly have Lefties on their shows. Al Sharpton spends so much time on O'Reilly's show that I have to wonder if he's on the payroll.
Keep believing that CNN and MSNBC are somehow less biased than FOX. It's a fantasy.

[clevelandchick]

They just fired their only liberal cast member and have a few Dems that will come on the show once in a blue moon, only to talk over them and cut their mic....you Fixed News sheeple really crack me up.

[1will]

Fox has liberals on the air all day long. It's very rare that they may a point without giving some lefty a chance to defend their side.
Face it. None of you guys really watch Fox. You parrot what you read on the Huffpost or see on the other networks.

[clevelandchick]

CNN cowered in a corner and let the Bush Administration basically get away with murder for nearly 8 years and someone on that network has the nerve to criticize MSNBC? It's completely laughable.

I keep thinking about how afraid Blitzer was of Cheney (and how blatantly deferential) during that interview and the Blitzer/Gupta tag team right wing assault on Michael Moore over "Sicko". Geez, even their house doctor is in the tank for the right wing. Then the fact they had Glenn Beck on for three freaking hours a day. And their resident xenophobe Lou Dobbs.

Yeah....CNN has a lot of nerve equating MSNBC with Fixed Noise when they've been working furiously at being a lighter version of the latter.

[satyriasis]

Well said, clevelandchick.

[sweetlucy47]

Matt,

Did you forget who Campbell was married to? He is also a frequent guest on the Joke of the Morning and is quite the NeoCon himself.. I am sure that shades her Bias more than anything.. no matter what she says...

Dan Senor is as far right as Joke.. maybe farther.. and I am sure pulls her quite far. So.. Even though she says No Bias.. I don't buy it...lol

[clevelandchick]

That's right, I almost forgot. Brown is married to a Neocon operative. Makes a lot of sense now.

[lapdogs]

And she will disclose this relationship when, exactly - on her show?

Yeah, right, she's "Not Biased" and throws "No Bull".

And if you believe that one....

[SonnyBono]

Thanks, Sweetie, I was going to mention it but you beat me to the punch - Dan Senor was up to his eyebrows in the "Iraqi reconstruction" and we all know how well that went for the US treasury and the Iraqi people but like all good Bushie drones, he got a medal for his "service".

[Lorixd]

Here's what's really going on in todays News Biased Media....period!
For the past 8 years MSNBC,CBS,­ABC,CNN,PB­S,NBC continually bashed G Bush for everything! Even if things went right we would have never heard any applause form the above media.
Now they have their "Messiah" in office, this is their guy, they've made the decision to continually praise him support him whatever the outcomes may be.
Now Fox News has taken on that same roll of continually criticizing PBO ....and the left can't stand it! I ask you lefties again...did we hear anything about the ACORN Scandal for your "lapdog" media networks,did we hear anything on corrupt and biased CZAR Van Jones from media other than FOX...answer NO!
Yes ALL media have their bias...of course they all distort news in favor of their chosen political figures but don't you think Fox News would be fact checked and proven to be liars if these things weren't true?

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Lorixd, I'll quote William Burroughs: "The paranoiac is the one who knows what is really going on."

For eight years, the Bushies abused powers left and right but Faux Noise acted as cheerleader. Now that Obama is in office, his detractors accuse him of being a "messiah" although ONLY A FAUX NOISE VIEWER would ever think of a politician as a prophet. It's pure psychological projection on your part.

What Faux Noise has done since January is blow up minimal controversies into giant nontroversies. Exactly *one* ACORN office took the bait. I've watched all the other videos and have yet to see a criminal act. O'Keefe and Giles are smearing ACORN with their pretext -- it's like a grade-school bully throwing dog feces on other kids and laughing, "HA! You've got POO on you!"

"don't you think Fox News would be fact checked and proven to be liars if these things weren't true?"

Thank you for making my point. Dare you to click on the links above and see the many travesties passing for "journalism" at the channel Roger Ailes built? I don't think so. You'll just tell me you can't trust the source, even though the FACTS are right there in front of you.

Here's just one -- I dare you to click:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-osborne/glenn-becks-2-week-video_b_277028.html

[Lorixd]

Matt...
Anyone can find, copy and paste a url link that favors their view then follow up by writing ..."I dare you to click". This doesn't prove anything!
Maybe next year at this time when it won't be so easy for "The Messiah" to blame G Bush for his and Rohm Emanuels failures you'll become enlightened !
Already we've seen the stimulus pkg become a failure...­unemployme­nt still at 9.8% housing still down,even with new buyer credits. Cash for clunkers a complete disaster. And your own Dem controlled Congress can't get a trillion dollar health care bill passed.

As George Will said about BO .. 'There is no problem that will not melt before the sunshine of his charm" and many of you Lib bloggers actually believe that. Something tells me you'll be waiting a long time to feel the warmth of his sunshine.

[john donne]

Didn't Burroughs kill his wife and run off to Mexico?

I know, I know, his personal issues should not be used to attack his ideas.

If, say, he were overweight, or had a prescription drug problem, we would still have to confront his ideas, right? Or could we dismiss him by saying "fat drug addict."

[clevelandchick]

You must be living on another planet. Phil Donohue was FIRED from MSNBC for questioning the run up the the Iraq War.

Not ONE mainstream media outlet questioned the Bush Administration until well into his second term when overwhelming evidence came out from foreign press, leaked photos of Abu Ghraib, the country witnessing the complete incompetence of Katrina, the Walter Reed debacle....Heck, Judy Miller of the NYT acted as Cheney's personal stenographer to assist in lying this nation into the Iraq cluster****.

Anyone who dared question the Bush Administration was called a traitor, a terrorist....not just by the ignorant GOP concubines on Fox but by practically every pundit on air at the time.

So please...enough with your alternative reality. Nobody buys your Foxian lies.

And Van Jones wasn't a "Czar" you dolt.....he was an advisor on green job creation, something this country could really use right now.

[Hahira]

And don't forget that ABC fired Bill Maher for his comments about the war. Or that White House spokesman Ari Fleischer warned Americans to "watch what they say."

http://thebigstory.org/ov/ov-politicallyincorrect.html

[24hourrifle]

terrific.great point.

btw...speaking of czars,factchecking sites have confirmed that bush had 36 czars.

where was the "liberal media" then?

[blizb]

What went right?? All the media applauded "mission accomplished".

The media was more than lenient with Bush and Cheney because if they had been tough they would never have been re-elected.

Fox is constantly fact checked and proven many times to be false but they decline to post corrections or retractions. Bill O'Reilly claimed to have won the Peabody award, Hannity fed a false story and they refused to "air" the correction, Fox put a brief sentence on their website and this happens on a regular basis.

If you looked at 5-6 major news websites all the ones you mentioned then look at their headlines and questions you will find many of them have been equally tough on Obama.

Fox stated to CNN in defense of their network that "we are comparable to a newspaper editorial page".

They editorialize news and present opinion based programming by their own admission.

You don't speak for Fox, Fox admitted they aren't news.

If you actually believe the opinions presented on a daily basis in their prime time programming you are just agreeing with the opinion.

If you believe they are "fair and balanced" then name one liberal or Democrat host on Fox??
Alan Colmes left Hannity and Fox.

All of the networks you mention have conservative hosts or presenters, but Fox doesn't have any liberals.

How do you think their hiring is done?? How could it be fair without any Democrats or liberals??

[lapdogs]

Not to mention Roger Ailes' DAILY TALKING POINTS on what to cover, what to keep pounding away at.

That why they all sound alike no matter what the show. They're just following the bosses orders.

And when is the last time a Republican did something wrong and was not shown to have a "D" Democrat letter after that Republican's name. They always get those "accidental typos" when its against somebody they are supporting.

[raker]

The false equivalency is the cop-out that news channel TV personalities use because they don't dare criticize a right winger without dumping on a lefty at the same time. But I have yet to hear one of them try to soften the blow to a Democrat who's on the ropes by saying there's equal guilt on the right. The thing is, it hurts their feelings when Ann Coulter calls them liberal. Being nearly universally judged to be rotten, unethical journalists doesn't faze them, but Ann Coulter scares them. Go figure.

[24hourrifle]

exactly.

[not one of the sheep]

This is the most amazing piece of hypocrisy I have ever read. I find the constant "faux noise" implication quite childish. It is obvious you have an irrationable ax to grind through you evident hatred of another network that doesn't fit into your quaint little world. I have watched Olbermann and found him to be equally offensively squewed to the left as Hannity is insanely right. It would be as easy to identify this network as BSNBC as ti call the other Faux Noise. After watching Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews and the rest of the line up it is easy to see how the comparison of a Fox polar opposite is made. The bottom line is the constitutional right of free speech. Brown asked a quesiton to which the white house representative could not provide a viable answer. Brown then conveyed her observations on her show which is in no way or stretch liable. To insinuate such is to expose ones own fixations. There is a device that comes with all televisions called a remote control. Push the "change channel" button and feel free to quit the incessant whining.

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

not one of the sheep, I will call it "Faux Noise" until it stops being a partisan propaganda shop. Valerie Jarrett was not equipped to answer the question, but I am.

My "irrationable ax" is actually quite rational. Faux Noise fills the heads of its audience with misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies. You may not like Olbermann or Maddow, but their commentary is based on facts where Faux Noise offers nothing but lies and fear. As for the remote-control: the point is not that *I* have a choice of channels, but that a significant chunk of America chooses to watch a channel that fills their heads with bunk.

[not one of the sheep]

Thankfully the constitution controls the right to free speech and not you. We don't need thought police that will control which channel "that fills their heads with bunk". Maybe this will guarantee you some air time on MSNBC and boost their ratings. Lord knows they need it.

[clevelandchick]

Okay....we'll call it "Fixed News" instead...or how about "Fixed Noise"...yeah, that is more accurate.

Please, Fox is a joke. It's a propaganda machine for the GOP...nothing more. My Republican brother won't even watch it because he finds it so ridiculous.

[lyta]

Interesting, I find the right doing all the whining starting the exact moment they realize obama won, thus began the fear mongering done by lying and twisting of facts right along with obfuscation and editing to purposely mislead. Many of us rightly believe Fox has not been news since the invasion of Iraq but simply the propaganda arm of the Republican party and it's proven itself to be just that time and time again. Every charge leveled at the left is in fact done by the right. Perfect example is Liz Cheney, it's been proven how often she outright lies and yet she just keeps on doing it. No effort at being factual.

[john donne]

What has Fox lied about?

Can you offer an example of propaganda?

[24hourrifle]

as usual,your criticism of msnbc revolves completelyy around olbermann,maddow etc...

the important criticism of fnc has to do with their "hard news",or lack thereof.

as offensive and disgusting as beck/hannity etc...are,thats not the point really.
its their years and years of misinformation and propoganda,which is-and has been,over and over-clearly proven.
and i dont use the word propoganda lightly.its propoganda because they know thatbthey are using GOP talking points.theyKNOW that they are dismantling the very foundation of legitimate journalism.

and still...not a single example of msnbc provoding clear misinfo.
not a single example of an msnbc anchor reporting a story which is simply disproven,

[not one of the sheep]

Here is one of many "misinfos" done by Maddow. The examples of smears are endless by MSNBC "news reporters". Of course, they are ok as long as they are against the opposing view, aren't they. Can you say "hypocrisy"? I knew you could. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/10/14/flashback-msnbc-s-rachel-maddow-touted-false-limbaugh-quote-june

[oldwool]

MSNBC is the network for twenty-somethings, or for the student union. A few decades on the planet, a family, perhaps, and a job, not an education alone, are needed before you shed the idealism that is the framework of MSNBC's journalism. It present a world where two clear choices between right and wrong always exist--a world where our President has always the luxury to thumb through the pages of the Constitution and every charter and international agreement before choosing the country's course, a course that will always be uncharted. Presidents are going to makes mistakes everyday--whether they can deliver a seductive speech or not. The standards to which MSNBC pretends to hold people in power makes it news sound like a cracked bell.

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

I sense from this comment that your one of those people who thinks Obama will hypnotize children through the TV set. Your concept of liberals as young collegiate idealists is completely out of touch with the reality. It's obvious you've never spent much time with them.

[oldwool]

Sure I've spent time with them. During a recent visit to Boston one of my liberal friends asked "How is Glenn Beck's book the best seller in America right now." While its obviously anecdotal, the question speaks to the insularity of a lot of liberal thought. America is a wide open place; many of values that exist among the young and urban and ultra-educated don't exist in the country's heartlands. While I might not uphold Beck's opinons as representative, neither do I think the worldview espoused by Olberman to be constructive either. Again, the perpetually scathing tone that characterizes the reporting on MSNBC rings falsely. It would only work in a vacuum, as I said earlier--the same never-achieved paradise where logical fallacies trump the dollar and power. And really, as we are presently witnessing, a President is essentially powerless. Obama will have my kids as an audience just as Bush did. There just two men with different ideas who know it is impossible make Americans happy. I'll never know either one of them except through sound bites and by their missteps, which are always "news."

[jcolumbus]

Keep it up Matt - I love when you answer with the truth!

[Json]

I bet you are a huge fan of Kissinger and his view of "realpolitik".
I find it very interesting how you describe MSNBC presenting a world where there are clear choices between right and wrong. In case you had not noticed Bush spent 8 years saying things "You are either with us or against us." It was the right wing that presented things as either black or white with no shades of gray, while openly mocking the left-wing for dabbling in 'nuance'.
I think you are simply wrong.
(I won't even get into the "the country's course, a course that will always be uncharted".)

[oldwool]

Why, yes, I am. I am for practical approaches, though all of our competing idealogies­--American luxuries, really--are entertaining. No, I don't think being with or against America is congruent with "right or wrong." I just don't think that every issue has room for right or wrong--Iraq being one of them. Look at the world's oil reserves. We either tangle with Russia, China or the Middle East. You make the call. Until we can our entire military to solar or wind power, every sitting President is going to secure a steady supply of oil--you know, like a decade's worth, for starters. And as far as "uncharted" goes--it's exactly as it spelled. As Hillary Clinton learned in Pakistan, the business of empire gets ugly. Terrorism is uncharted territory-­-sub-state entities that can enflict state-sized damage. It's messy. At the level it's being played, it is a relatively new challenge to state leaders. The old Westphalian model doesn't apply. Liberals don't accept that, though. Liberals will cite some obsolete section of a UN charter that worked when different realities existed.

[jimrs6]

By any measurement , MSNBC is the network for the people who don't watch TV.

[Matt Osborne - Huffpost Blogger]

Given that it is disappearing from basic cable packages, lots of my friends on the left are, in fact, giving up their TVs.

[goodpyr]

I'm 66yrs old and enjoy MSNBC quite a bit.I would readily compare life experiences with you,
but it probably wouldn't change your way of thinking.The President is fallable most of the public knows so does MSNBC.They have the right to disagree.

[clevelandchick]

Fox is the network for the old xenophobic uneducated racists that yell at kids to get off their lawn and paste confederate flags on every surface they can find.