Bill and Hillary, Kurt and Courtney

I like Hillary Clinton more than most of my peers and if I thought she had a snowball's chance in hell of beating John McCain I might've voted for her a few Tuesdays back, and I'm grateful that I'm enough of a sucker to let polling data keep me from having to make a difficult decision.

Despite my not voting for her, I spend about forty-five minutes a day on the phone with someone defending her, and a couple weeks ago I realized that I have been having this very same conversation for years, but only recently about Hillary. I've been making the same reluctant argument in favor of Courtney Love since I was about 15, and the opposition has been saying the same thing back, and with good reason -- they're kind of the same person.

Hillary and Courtney are both:

-Blamed (inaccurately) for their husband's worst behavior -- Hillary for Bill's failed initiatives in his presidency and his infidelity, Courtney for Kurt's drug problem, rift with Dave Grohl, and suicide.

-Two of the most talented people in their field, and probably not quite as talented as their husbands.

-Dogged by allegations that they would be nowhere without their husband's success, which is total nonsense on both counts.

-Robbed of credit for their own strengths/accomplishments -- people who say "it'll be fine since Bill will be back in the White House" and "Kurt probably was writing those songs anyway" are saying the same thing about the shadow male player.

-The most controversial woman in politics and the most controversial woman in rock and roll, despite having not created anything particularly controversial. Hole's three albums are absolutely fantastic, but in the age of the riot grrl movement of the 1990s were no more controversial than a universal health care plan similar to ones that plenty of nations had already.

-Hated by many on an irrational and emotional level. There is no cow more sacred to the Democratic party than Bill Clinton's presidency, and no cow more sacred (post-Beatles) in rock and roll than Nirvana, and all of their talents are lost compared to whatever role people imagine them to have played in their husbands' downfalls.

-They both have only-daughters with slightly left of center, but not incredibly silly names that happen to be the names of famous hotels.

Once their husbands' most powerful days were behind them (Kurt shot himself in the head, Bill's second term ended with him shooting himself in the foot over and over again between Monica, the Marc Rich pardon, on and on and on), Hillary and Courtney have continued to hold hands on their own rollercoasters. They surprised surprised their detractors with a strong senate term and 1998's Celebrity Skin, both effective works that will be remembered as great, if close-to-the-vest points in their career that did a lot to prove their talents - if they are not overshadowed by their follow-ups.

Love's next album, her first without Hole titled America's Sweetheart was an overproduced disaster of an album unparalleled by nothing in history, until a month ago when Hillary's campaign caught up with it, and unless the album that Courtney has been working on since then comes out in the next two weeks is the next Sgt. Pepper, I'm inclined to believe that Hillary has a tough road ahead of her.

Having come of age in the 1990s, I possess a jerky nostalgia for the days of grunge and the dot-com boom, and hope that the women of the two most important couples of the decade are not frozen in history in their current frames: Hillary at the tail end of a mess of a campaign and Courtney in a mess of a drug problem and a crappy album. Behind the recent missteps and the remarkably similar emotional hatred that the two of them are party to are good and respectable records that stand up on their own and are worth looking at and listening to. Hillary '08 and that gig where Love got dragged off the stage opening for Jane's Addiction will be tough to rebound from -- we'll see.

Follow Max Bernstein on Twitter: www.twitter.com/maxmarginal

Comments

[hoopesaz]

I've read two of your posts now and I have to wonder what happened to the standards for letting someone blog on this site? Accuracy and good judgement clearly aren't required. Wonder what is?

[S1m0n]

"Dogged by allegations that they would be nowhere without their husband's success, which is total nonsense on both counts."

That's a distortion; Hillary would be somewhere, for sure. Maybe even in the senate, although she would have had a great deal more work to do getting there.

She would NOT be being taken seriously as a presidential candidate, however, on the basis of her own achievements and talent alone.

[kitty3363]

more accurate comparison would be Barack Obama and Courtney Love both no talent ambition addicted phonies.

[KarenZipdrive]

Before I started to read your post, I was eager to write a scathing comment about sexism and trivializing Hillary.
But after I read it, I have to commend you for offering us a well-reasoned, intelligent point of view.
I hope you'll write more for HuffPo. You're a clever guy.

[CellarDoor]

Terrible comparison­...Courtne­y Love? Really? Talented? Really?!? The "best" in her field? Bollocks! Responsible for ANYTHING Cobain did musically? Absurd. And you're right, Kurt didn't write any of Hole's music, Billy Corgin did (Smashing Pumpkins, look it up...all of Hole's "successful" music written by someone else) and then she tried to cut him out of his due (Corgin on Stern years ago). There are thousands of infinitely more talented female musicians (is Love even a musician at all?). From everything I've seen or read, she has no passion for music...just ambition for success.

[wagadog]

"Dogged by allegations that they would be nowhere without their husband's success, which is total nonsense on both counts."

No, Hil would still be probably the only graduate of Yale Law who failed the NY State Bar Exam, had to follow her boyfriend to a no-account teaching job out in the hills of Arkansas (because it was the only state she could pass the bar in?) wound up working as a public defender -- and then, only after she married Bill and served as cookie-bak­er-in-chie­f in the Governor's mansion in Arkansas -- had a chance to ply her cheap lawyering skills (none dare call it justice) on behalf of corporations.

[KarenZipdrive]

Thank you for writing, Mr. Rove.

[JaneaneTheAcerbicGoblin]

Your comparison is completely off base. I am not a Hillary fan by any means (check out my posts on Hillary threads), but comparing her to Courtney Love is, honestly, an abomination. A guitarist friend of mine did tell me once that he actually liked Courtney's music at one point, saying she was a great guitar player (and I thought she was fantastic in The People vs. Larry Flynt), but then she lost it when she picked a new career path as an idiotic, drug enhanced, mind melted celebrity. Love is a complete joke now. Hillary is becoming a joke, but she'll never become like Courtney, thank goodness.

[tommjk]

Great post, Max. I've made this same connection in the past but I never worked it out quite as exhaustively as you've done here.

And on cue the Hillary and Courtney haters have appeared spitting their similarly irrational venom.

I have to disagree with you on America's Sweetheart. If you cut out about half the songs, it's actually makes a pretty decent EP.

[slc20]

"-Two of the most talented people in their field, and probably not quite as talented as their husbands."

Well, therein lies your problem.

Neither Hillary nor Courtney are talented at all.
(Hole? Gag.) And the only reason anyone has ever heard of Courtney OR Hillary is because of the men they married.

[Brettster]

Are you joking?? Your view of Courtney Love and music in general is absolutely ridiculous and has no basis in reality of any sort. The claims you make about her are completely laughable. Almost as laughable as the defenses you give Hillary.

[thedave25]

Courtney Love is one of the worse musicians on the planet

[pchdriver]

Interesting comparison, Max.

I know neither woman personally, but here's my take on the critical difference: Courtney Love tells it like it is, or at least, tells it how she sees it. Hillary Clinton, by contrast, has mastered the art of facile equivocation and political expediency. I'd trust Love to tell me the truth, but I couldn't say the same for Clinton.

I don't hate Clinton -- and I'll vote for her if she's the Democratic nominee -- but I'm tired of her.

-- Christian Gulliksen

[starboymikey]

I'm an Obama supporter, but if it were Courtney running against him, she'd have my vote.

[thatsNotWhatIHeard]

haha, c'mon man, i'm not a huge hillary fan i admit, but i'd never dig so low as to say she's the "courtney love" of politics. Hillary deserves more credit than that.

courtney had her time, and then by 2000 disowned all the very things we loved her for originally, and became an elder Britney. Lord knows why Vanity Fair is so in love with her.

[DietrichMoody]

I could just visualize the "Freaky Friday" scenario, where Hillary goes into Courtney loves body and vice versa.

On the other hand, one succeeded in driving her husband to suicide and the other can only hope. What can you say?

They both suck at public speaking and picking careers. Two bad actresses that might do better - doing the Freaky Friday switch.