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Meryl Chertoff

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Aspen Summer Reveals an Old Theme

Posted: 07/21/11 12:03 PM ET

Thirty years ago, when I was a law student, I lived across the landing of a Cambridge walk-up from a well-respected young scholar of French feminist studies. We had a nodding acquaintance, but I noticed one odd thing about her comings and goings. Each weekday without fail, she would come home at midday, slam the apartment door, and an hour or so later would emerge. A single set of footsteps would echo in the hall, and she was gone. One day, I asked her about her midday sojourns. Sheepishly, she confessed her secret vice -- she regularly followed a particular soap opera. She was addicted, but embarrassed to think that any of her protégées might learn of her politically incorrect predilections. She pledged me to silence, but in return, I extracted from her a synopsis of the current plot line. I laughed when I learned that not much had changed in the soap opera bubble since a couple of years earlier, when confined to bed due to some passing ailment, I too had begun to follow the show for a brief time. In the soap opera universe, I learned, change came very slowly, if at all.

In the years that followed, I married and practiced law while trying to juggle that with caring for babies and aging in-laws. I tried family day care, drop-off care, babysitters, nannies and being a stay-at-home mom (the last, a mistake for me). I struggled in a thousand ways, like many women of my generation with advanced degrees to use my training, or at least my brain, while still raising decent, happy and productive children and providing emotional support to an extremely driven and successful husband. A husband whose parents also needed me.

Which brings me to a recent evening in Aspen, Colorado, when I was lucky enough to be a guest at a gathering hosted by some of my colleagues at the Aspen Institute. The topic of the evening was Women in the Workplace, and the panelists all agreed that women had made significant strides -- the glass ceiling was cracking, hotels were taking pains to be more sensitive to the needs of female business travelers, and so on. One speaker announced that his wife had a career just as relevant and meaningful as his own, and that they shared household responsibilities equally.

The room was filled with successful entrepreneurs, many of them women, most at least ten years younger than I am. Where, I wondered in the discussion was the "k" word -- kids. There was minimal discussion of them among the panelists, who painted a rather rosy scenario. I didn't have to wait long. No sooner had the floor opened to questions then a half dozen women, in order, let the panelists have it with both barrels. Apparently I wasn't the only one who thought something was missing. But wait, said the moderator, a single woman -- not all women have child-rearing responsibilities. Quite right. But many single women, and a lot of moms are responsible for the care of someone, be it an aging parent or close friend. Somehow in our culture -- whether we define that locally or globally -- women remain, disproportionately, the caregivers.

I wanted to ask the proud equal-care dad if when one of his children woke in the middle of the night with a fever of 102 degrees, that child called out "I don't feel well...Daddy." Somehow, I doubt it.

And that takes us back to the French professor's secret. After all the years of advancement in the workplace, and all the debates over equality, even these young, entrepreneurial leaders, women at the top of their game who seemed to me far more together than I ever was while raising my kids -- even they were frustrated. Even they felt trapped by someone else's rules, with one-size-fits all expectations. Change comes slowly, if at all.

Still, there are bright spots. Just this week, one of my colleagues was promoted only a few weeks after returning from maternity leave. Her time out didn't "count against her" as it surely would have fifteen years ago. A couple of years ago Georgetown Law, where I then worked, initiated a nursing room, an acknowledgement that yes, female law students, faculty and staff might indeed be the mothers of infants and might actually need to bring those infants onto campus. I cried when I read the news. It would have been unthinkable in the year of the soap opera.

With two kids on the cusp of adulthood, I can now look back and say I tried pretty much every option as I raised them. Each option was good, each was bad. Even today, with every hiccup of their emotional development as young adults, I ask myself, was I home enough when they were little? Did I pay enough attention when I came home from a day of work drained and exhausted? Did I model well to my girl? To my boy? The truth is, there are no right answers; every family works out its own accommodation. Disposable income helps, but it is not the end of the discussion. The ongoing challenge is not to remake women -- the Aspen group of young female entrepreneurs was indeed impressive, but they are not the only impressive women of that age and younger. Solutions will come only with efforts to change the culture, particularly the culture of the workplace, to respect difference as fully as we have come to embrace equality.

Meryl Justin Chertoff is the Director of the Justice and Society Program at The Aspen Institute and adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center.

 
 
 
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02:58 PM on 07/22/2011
All this back and forth over equality, who does more, who does less, who's more entitled to what.
Wow! I have a headache.
Speaking of equality, can someone point me towards the "Men" section here at HP? Thanks.
foresure
Brash and Harsh
12:54 AM on 07/22/2011
Correcton on (2) below:

2. Directors and Senior Management are evaluated by Shareholders on how well they achieve the goals in paragraph (1).
foresure
Brash and Harsh
12:50 AM on 07/22/2011
Cetain unpleasant facts.

1. In a capitalist economy the fiduciary duty and obligation of the Directors and Senior Management of a company with shareholders is solely to increase, through all legal and ethical means, to increase the dividends and/or value of the shares held by the shareholders.

2. Directors and Senior management by the Shareholder are evaluated on the basis of how well they achieve the goals in (1) above.

3. Directors may be terminated upon the vote of the shareholder without cause.

4. The Chief Executive Office of a business with sharholders may be terminated, without notice if in the opinion of the Directors, the CEO has failed to adequately increase the value of the stock owned by the shareholders. The CEO and many of Senior Management may also be terminated without cause, if their contracts so provide.

5. The purpose of middle and junior management is to hirer employees who will increase the profitability of the company, and thereby increase the value of shares owned by the shareholders.

6. The purpose of production workers and immediate supervisors is to generate profit for the shareholders.

Question: How does this comport with the feminist ethos?
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LynneSpreen
www.AnyShinyThing.com, For Smart Women
08:33 AM on 07/22/2011
Foresure, you are right to insinuate that it's not personal, it's business. However, I would offer

#7: Only one gender carries young for the perpetuation of the species.

If such a fact encourages business to devalue that gender, impeding the ability of those of that gender to earn sustenance for their existence, how would you recommend that gender react?
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11:32 AM on 07/22/2011
#7: Only one gender carries young for the perpetuation on of the species.

Who said that's a good thing? I'm single and childless, and I don't remember asking anybody to have kids. I know that if planet Earth could talk, the most over-worked mother in all history, she would be asking you to stop having so many kids! I'm with her.
foresure
Brash and Harsh
05:24 PM on 07/22/2011
LynneSpreen

Perahaps certain occupations are more suited to women than men, and vice versa.

Is it sexism that there are no women playing in the NFL?
10:35 PM on 07/21/2011
My Dad expressed some of these same regrets to me when he was dying. He feared that he hadn't been there enough for us--that he had worked too much and should have spent more time with us.

As things were in the 50's and 60's and early 70's, I don't see how he could have done differently. He worked for someone else when we were little and had to work when he was told. When he was able to afford a small business, he worked 6 days a week to keep it afloat. He put us all through college. And he spent every Sunday with us and every evening.

My regret was that he had few opportunities to do anything for himself and he took only a few one week vacations over the years, always accompanied by his family, always close to home so he could get back if he was needed. He thought he would travel the world in retirement, but he didn't live long enough to get to do that.

We do the best we can. And I think he was a great Dad.

There is no one right way for a person to parent or to have a career. You just do the best you can do.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
03:39 AM on 07/22/2011
llisa-

Thanks for the nice words about your father.

I think it was common for men in those days, as my father was similar - and for the same reasons. He also sacrificed so much for his family and hardly spent a nickle on himself.

He also was a great dad.

It seems like dads get nothing but grief these days.
foresure
Brash and Harsh
09:40 PM on 07/21/2011
Really the only solution to the plight of women is to repeal captialism and the concept of "equality".

People should be paid, promoted, or honored, not on the basis of how much profit they contribute to the business entity, but on the basis of what "protected group" they belong to.
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legalclubs
08:11 PM on 07/21/2011
Two points.

First, there are only 24 hours in every day and it is quite frankly impossible to have a high powered career, like being an attorney at a large firm which requires you to be working 80% of your waking hours, and at the same time being supermom (or superdad) at home which requires you to be available 100% of your waking hours (and some of your sleeping hours also). So the answer is and has always been that you must choose between the two or compromise on both. There is no other solution. Whatever decision a Mom or Dad makes there is almost always going to be regret, but that's life.

Second, the author's said: "I wanted to ask the proud equal-care dad if when one of his children woke in the middle of the night with a fever of 102 degrees, that child called out "I don't feel well...Daddy." Somehow, I doubt it." Does this strike anybody else as a bit sexist? I'm a father with three young children and this is exactly what they do. I also know several other father's that are the "go to parent" for one or more of their children is such circumstances. Maybe this is generational so the author didn't experience this with her children, but it's not exactly rare these days.
05:45 PM on 07/21/2011
With the lack of diversity in conversation in the top posts (see debt ceiling debate, deficit debate, etc) America continues to bear witness to what male-dominated thinking leads us to. The good news though is that women are the majority of the population and are the majority of the educated and college-educated citizens with over one million more female college graduates than male graduates. This will ultimately change the narrative for women, and this nation, for the better. What continues to remain a problem though is that men have not stepped up to the plate sufficiently when it comes to families and child-rearing, with men performing only 35% of the work associated with private life. Women have long supported men which in turn allowed them to be successful. It would be wonderful for men to return the favor in a more equitable manner. Succesful men have become successful due in large part because of their wife's ability to handle all other aspects of their lives.. Apparently women need wives as well.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
03:56 AM on 07/22/2011
EDCO8-

"This will ultimately change the narrative for women, and this nation, for the better".

Really? Why? Could you please provide some examples?

It was the hard work and intelligence of men which propelled mankind into civilizations. It was men who conceptualized everything from aquaducts to railways, colleges and space exploration. Look around you EDC08 - everything within your sight that has more than two moving parts was designed, built and installed by a man.

As much as women can excel in humanities or medical fields, I've not yet seen much from them in the way of inventiveness.

Women have certainly won the war of the sexes and feminism has handed women the keys to the castle (the castle built on the backs of hard working men) but it remains to be seen how well females govern.

A castle can be a headache to keep up - especially without a man.
05:58 PM on 07/22/2011
You have an overly complimentary view of men and what they've achieved and why. It's true that men, white men in particular, have invented most, but not all, of "everything within your sight". Do you ever ask yourself why that is? Does it ever occur to you that perhaps the answer is "opportunity"? After all, black men, brown men, etc., have not invented nearly as many things as white men, so it can't be that it's because it's "men" who invent things. Opportunity and education, two very important avenues to success, have historically been denied (by men in general and white men in particular) to anyone other than themselves. American women are no longer denied education, opportunity, loans, scholarships, promotions, etc., and what you are seeing in the late 20th century going forward, is women taking their equal place in society. Remember when the fastest human on earth was a white man, the heavyweight champion of the world was a white man? Once men of other races were allowed to compete and participate, well...we all know how that turned out for white men. Throughout history men have made the bogus claims that women can't be doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs. They can't be astronauts, soldiers, police officers, Senators. You name it and men have claimed women can't be it. And in each and every instance men have been proven wrong. You would think you'd get tired of being wrong and just be quiet instead.
05:17 PM on 07/21/2011
"Just this week, one of my colleagues was promoted only a few weeks after returning from maternity leave. Her time out didn't "count against her" as it surely would have fifteen years ago."

I don't understand this. If someone misses significant amounts of work during a career for whatever reason, they should not get the same "credit" as someone who does not. A woman who works for five years putting in 50 hours per week should be evaluated differently than a woman who has 2 or 3 children in the same five years and takes 8-10 weeks leave (whether paid or unpaid) for each child. Additionally, it is my experience (I work in a white collar environment where salaried people routinely work more than 40 hrs per week) that women who have responsbilility for children don't put in the same number of hours as single people or people without children. They often are the primary care giver and have to leave at specified times to pick up children and the like.

The same would be true of a man who chooses to take time off from work to either take care of children (eg, paternity leave) or for some other reason, like a sabbatical.

The bottom line is that experience and focus count in the private sector and elapsed time is not as important. If a woman has a child and still is able to put in the time others do then they should be evaluated the same.
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papagroove
06:44 AM on 07/22/2011
"The bottom line is that experience and focus count in the private sector and elapsed time is not as important. If a woman has a child and still is able to put in the time others do then they should be evaluated the same"

Do you even read what you write? "Time is not as important" and then the very next sentence, "If a woman has a child and still is able to put in the time others do then they should be evaluated the same"

So which is it? Is time a factor or not?
Anything to rationalize the worth of women down to second class, huh?
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03:16 PM on 07/21/2011
"Even they felt trapped by someone else's rules, with one-size-fits all expectations. Change comes slowly, if at all."

One fundamental difference between women and men- women like to complain more. About men. About their work. About their body. About other women. I agree that there is a lot to complain about, but this will never change. Men are known to internalize their problems more, so you hear about them less.
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TraceyES
07:13 PM on 07/21/2011
"Men are known to internaliz­e their problems more, so you hear about them less."

Which is why they drop dead of heart attack sooner, or shoot up shopping malls, fast-food restaurants and their employers and co-workers. Sorry, but it's true.
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11:43 PM on 07/21/2011
I'll agree with the early onset health problems. A greater tendency towards violence might also be possible, but there's issues of class and education involved there. The shooting up of malls, fast food restaurants, and co-workers is a lot less common. Certainly not something that can be used to characterize the entire gender.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
04:01 AM on 07/22/2011
65 fans-

"One fundamenta­l difference between women and men- women like to complain more. About men. About their work. About their body. About other women. I agree that there is a lot to complain about, but this will never change. Men are known to internaliz­e their problems more, so you hear about them less."

I couldn't agree more. I was vice president of a small manufacturing firm with 65 women and maybe 5 guys. Wow, it was an eye opener into the world of women! I never heard so much complaining in my life!

Women and men are definitely not the same.
02:47 PM on 07/21/2011
This article illustrates the complete loss of perspective that pervades so much talk, by women, of "feminism" - particularly women in the higher echelons of the workplace.

For countless years, countless women have had to go to work just to get money. Forget "building a career", let alone the non-stop angst about the potential effects on children. It's been a necessity, a fact of life, and one that has necessarily involved having to hand the kids over to someone else. Yet those who have been lucky enough to be able to get a higher education, and consequently well-remunerated employment, suddenly "discover" these long-standing realities - and seem to have a harder time coping with them despite the fact that they are better placed to do so.

The reason that women's rights have progressed is due in large part to the countless - silent - women who have led by example, to colleagues and children alike, and opened-eyes, by dealing with realities and fighting obstacles as they meet them, rather than anticipating and whining about them ad nauseum.
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SF TKF
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
01:40 PM on 07/21/2011
You summed it all up when you said your husband's parents needed YOU. Why didn't they need HIM? Why wasn't HE on the front line? Why were you and your time more disposable? Because you and he had made choices (even if they were unspoken) as to who’s responsibility such things were.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
01:21 PM on 07/21/2011
"Even today, with every hiccup of their emotional development as young adults, I ask myself, was I home enough when they were little? Did I pay enough attention when I came home from a day of work drained and exhausted? Did I model well to my girl? To my boy?"

If you have to ask yourself this question, the obvious answer is NO.
04:34 PM on 07/21/2011
Maybe the answer is "NO" or maybe she is falsely feeling guilt or responsibility for care that was the father's responsibility but that he apparently did not provide. Did she push him out of the way and hog the relationship with the children? Or was he too lazy to do the unpaid work of it and of the family? Or something else?

I suspect those are the questions that need to be asked here. But I wish she would not project her issues onto other women. These are her issues and her husband's issues. And their children have likely been hurt by it; they need to deal with that, make amends, fix the future as best they can.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
07:33 PM on 07/21/2011
"In the years that followed, I married and practiced law while trying to juggle that with caring for babies and aging in-laws. I tried family day care, drop-off care, babysitters, nannies and being a stay-at-home mom (the last, a mistake for me)."

Since the author herself states the above, it sounds to me like she was one of those mothers who wants kids, but doesn't want to raise them, is content to have others, (often less qualified) do the work.
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TraceyES
07:15 PM on 07/21/2011
Nonsense. Research actually shows children -- particularly boys -- respect their mothers more when their mothers had a career.
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Morrisfactor
Just a little bent
07:35 PM on 07/21/2011
Source of the research?

I often find research like this initiated or paid for by N.O.W. or other feminist organizations.

I had a "stay at home" mom until I entered grade school, was glad of it too.
12:55 PM on 07/21/2011
" wanted to ask the proud equal-care dad if when one of his children woke in the middle of the night with a fever of 102 degrees, that child called out "I don't feel well...Daddy." Somehow, I doubt it."

Wow, you've made up the situation even without knowing the facts. I have no idea what is going in this family, but I read accounts all the time of children who go their fathers with their needs, including emotional needs, as much as to mothers. Marc & Amy Vachon's, Equally Shared Parenting discusses this for example.

This is the problem where "women are in the way" by not acknowledging that when they get what they want they need to take it and stand down from the conflict. Please don't reinforce your own marriage's issues onto other people's.

It's like some "feminists" don't know what to do when there is no longer conflict, and so they perpetuate it. Please stop doing this, or if you are going to do it, do it in private (or maybe discuss it with a counselor?) and don't proselytize it.
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TraceyES
07:16 PM on 07/21/2011
"It's like some "feminists­" don't know what to do when there is no longer conflict"

I agree with the first part of your post -- many more men are fully hands-on parents nowadays -- but please don't presume that there are no workplace conflicts or sexist attitudes working against women nowadays.
07:36 PM on 07/21/2011
I don't assume (or presume) that, however, I do think that is possible to live in a non-sexist way now. It may still be more difficult than it should be, but the possibility is there.
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angelcakesinc
Tolerance of intolerance is intolerable
12:29 PM on 07/21/2011
Yeah because gods forbid a man ever takes time out of his busy schedule to watch the kids or care for his own damn parents. Sometimes I wonder why straight women deal with men at all. Then I remember why I put up with men... then realize that no, not even good sex is reason enough to put up with that kind of crap. Thankfully I won't be getting pregnant any time soon, barring a freak medical accident. But if that happens then hey, I get super rich! First pregnant biological male. Wouldn't that be something?
05:27 PM on 07/21/2011
Its because men and women are different and will always be different regardless of what feminists are trying to push on society.
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TraceyES
07:17 PM on 07/21/2011
So when does the "women and men are different" part mean more work for the man, and not the woman? Never. Yeah, I didn't think so. So convenient for you!
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papagroove
08:38 PM on 07/21/2011
sad
11:49 AM on 07/21/2011
You think it's difficult to change culture? Try changing a billion years of evolution.

At its core, Feminist fundamentalism is founded upon a rejection of the fact that males and females of all higher organisms, including our species, are different. We possess different organs, different chromosomes, different gametes, different hormones, different emotions.

True humanism must begin with human beings as we really are, not an abstract theory of how we ought to be. People who set perfect equality as their goal are chasing a utopian fantasy.
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SF TKF
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
01:37 PM on 07/21/2011
No, Feminism simply says that women should not be bound and limited by other's cultural perception of them, nor should they be treated as “lesser” because the current cultural imperative is male.
01:40 PM on 07/21/2011
"At its core, Feminist fundamenta­lism is founded upon a rejection of the fact that males and females of all higher organisms, including our species, are different. We possess different organs, different chromosome­s, different gametes, different hormones, different emotions. "

Patently false. Or do you really think feminists are out there fighting for a man's right to an abortion?