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Michael J. Wilson

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Are Too Many People Going to College?

Posted: 12/08/09 07:03 PM ET

I know that I'm not as smart as Barack Obama, but I am educated enough (and lucky enough) to be a part of the 82.8% of folks who have a job. Trust me, I know that things could be different; I am from Detroit. I also know that education isn't the only answer to individual employment challenges. But the correlation that stuck with me the most from my service at the Department of Labor during the Clinton years was the one between learning and earning which can be summarized as simply, "The more you learn, the more you earn."

While that notion clearly inspires the crassest economic aspirations amongst us, it isn't enough. Not with dropout rates in some urban areas exceeding 50%. Combined with unemployment rates among African-American and Hispanic males at over 34%, and a "real" unemployment rate for the general population at 17.2%, it's clear that the need for education is as strong as ever.

So Obama's campaign goal of having more college graduates than any other country in the world by 2020 is Kennedyesque in its scope and ambition. But unlike the space program, we do not have a direct Khrushchev-ian competitor. China, India, and Japan are sufficiently different from us to make direct comparisons challenging. In addition, as most of us know, the finish line isn't at age 22 when you get your B.A. directly after having gone to high school. It's much more complicated than that.

In fact, the real strength of America's higher education system is the diversity of options. Everyone doesn't graduate from high school, go to their state school and graduate in four years. The U.S. system of community colleges, public and private colleges, and for-profit colleges provides a wealth of higher education opportunities for potential students.

Who are potential students? Aside from traditional students, there are working parents with jobs, unemployed manufacturing workers with aspirations for white collar jobs, early retirees with active minds, GED recipients with hopes for better skills and education - you name the demographic and it exists.

Recently, my friend Julianne Malveaux, President of Bennett College in North Carolina was on NPR talking about education. She spoke about the "experts" who talk about too many people going to college. She wonders - as do I - if that is code for race, for class, or for gender. Think about it, at one time higher education wasn't for all of us - it meant white, male, and wealthy. President Obama's plan to have millions of college graduates turns that antiquated notion on it's head - he wants as many oars in the water as possible.

And the American public supports him. In a recent poll done for Americans for Democratic Actions Education Fund, we measured the views of the American public regarding higher education and the various kinds of schools. It won't surprise anyone who lives in the real world, but most folks think getting higher education - of any kind - is good, and that whether you attend Harvard, the local community college, take classes online, or attend the big state university, you can improve your skills, develop your mind, and further your education. The President's challenge makes college graduation not only smart, but patriotic; not for just a few of you, but for all of us.

 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveVoice
06:24 PM on 12/12/2009
Too often the call for a better educated workforce begins and ends with college. Not only is there no guarantee of jobs and higher earnings from a college education any longer, but by the time one hits college, one is an adult, sort of, and should know that one gets out of college what one puts into it. If one aspires to a college education, one should be motivated to make the most of it.

What we really need is an improved K-12. The portion of our education system that is compulsory should provide a solid, practical, complete education; further schooling should be specific and related directly to career ambitions, whether it happens at a trade school or university.

I graduated high school in 1978. My 10th grade English class began with a "review" of the parts of a sentence. Despite hearing the review every year for many years, 80% of my classmates didn't know a noun from an adverb. How can schools teach critical thinking or good citizenship or decision making or basic economics when they have to re-teach the basics every year?

I don't have a solution. Well, other than suggesting everyone start school at age 2, in a modified Montessori program, and learn to read at age 4, skip 2nd grade and have excellent test skills and a good memory for facts. That worked for me, but I can see it really isn't a universal solution . . . :-p
11:35 PM on 12/14/2009
I think you are right about K12, etc. One of the strongest contributors to success was the Head Start Program, which gave kids a chance to learn before kindergarten.
10:01 PM on 12/10/2009
Mr. Wilson, I have to applaud you for your piece. It has generated the single most reasonable, thoughtful and extended discussion I have ever seen on HP, and I "lurked" here for a very long time before I joined.

Great work!
06:37 PM on 12/10/2009
I went to State University in Ohio. Some freshman can read or add. Sorry but they don'e belong.(no it isn't a race issue, most of them are white)
If you give a degree then you are just giving out paper.
In Germany people are trained for the jobs they want, not alway university.
04:12 PM on 12/10/2009
"Booker T. and W.E.B."

(a conversation between Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois)

By Dudley Randall

"It seems to me," said Booker T.,
"It shows a mighty lot of cheek
To study chemistry and Greek
When Mister Charlie needs a hand
To hoe the cotton on his land,
And when Miss Ann looks for a cook,
Why stick your nose inside a book?"

"I don't agree," said W.E.B.
"If I should have the drive to seek
Knowledge of chemistry or Greek,
I'll do it. Charles and Miss can look
Another place for hand or cook,
Some men rejoice in skill of hand,
And some in cultivating land,
But there are others who maintain
The right to cultivate the brain."

"It seems to me," said Booker T.,
"That all you folks have missed the boat
Who shout about the right to vote,
And spend vain days and sleepless nights
In uproar over civil rights.
Just keep your mouths shut, do not grouse,
But work, and save, and buy a house."

"I don't agree," said W.E.B.
"For what can property avail
If dignity and justice fail?
Unless you help to make the laws,
They'll steal your house with trumped-up clause.
A rope's as tight, a fire as hot,
No matter how much cash you've got.
Speak soft, and try your little plan,
But as for me, I'll be a man."
09:42 PM on 12/10/2009
This is perfect. Fanned!
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09:47 PM on 12/09/2009
When we finally learn to respect ALL honest labor and separate knowledge from the trappings of class-ism, then we will have made strides towards real knowledge. What a person does for a living may not have real baring on who they really are or their worthiness of esteem and respect. Many a great mind has done his or her turn at ditch digging.
04:22 PM on 12/10/2009
This is very very true. One need not be formally educated to BE educated, to be intellegent. When I was living in Europe, I loved that people almost never asked questions like "what do you do?" It was just seen as in poor taste, because your job does not define who you are. My sister is smart as a whip but she hated school, had no interest in college. She went to trade school instead. My parents did not support her at all, were totally elitist about it, told her she'd ruin her life if she didn't go to college. It was ridiculous. And yet now so many of her trade school friends are doing better than my college educated friends (not that they would somehow be less worthy people id they WEREN'T doing better financially than my other friends). And I've met plenty a college graduate who I couldn't hold an intellectual conversation with.
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Haditup2here
8 Years of Insanity and now you're mad?
09:37 PM on 12/09/2009
The issue that I have with this article (although it is written in slightly anecdote form) and other(s) along the same thing, is that they skip around the issue which plagues are educational system: the fact that it relies of status and elitism. The dirty secret that no one wants to mention is the fact that many of the High School level courses could be taught at what now is the Middle School level if standards were brought up to par at the elementary school level. I'm not just talking about math (such as Algebra as Geometry), but also Science and Social Studies. There is nothing that would preclude someone from learning each of these subjects at the Junior High Level as long as they have taken the prerequisites (while fulfilling co requisites at the same time). Some people may think this is extreme. However, if you are going to have separate tracks at the high school level, why not teach a slightly basic level at the middle school level and allow those not as vested in those subjects to pursuit a curriculum more in line with their career interest? More students enroll in college-- but a large percentage drop out. I am sorry, but Obama is missing the boat on this one and has painted himself in a box. The goal shouldn't be to have the most college graduates but the most educated and well-trained workforce and citizens.
09:50 PM on 12/09/2009
I am having some difficulty following the logic from "status and elitism" to what is taught at what level. I don't necessarily disagree with you on either point, just having a little trouble getting from one to the other. Are you saying that things are spread out intentionally to give the same education in a longer amount of time, and hence one needs to go to college to get the same education that could be had in high school, and therefore gather the "status" of a college degree?

Sincere question.
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Haditup2here
8 Years of Insanity and now you're mad?
09:42 AM on 12/10/2009
Part I: The best way I can explain my point is to provide a concrete example. Take physics for example. At my former high school, there were two tracks: Physics and Honor Physics. Then there was AP Physics. The only difference between the regular physics course and the honors physics course was the rate at what topics were covered and the level detail. However, at the end of the day, most of the material was the same. All classes (even the AP course) did the Ski Lab on the same day where everyone who was taking the physics class was taking on a ski trip in order to do a certain lab assignment. However, one of the first topics was basically on the balances of forces in the same plane due to the direction and the magnitude. This was nothing more than basic algebra and many of the topic(s) was reduced to nothing more than math. The only other requirement was to have critical thinking and spatial relation acuity when setting those problems up.Therefore, it begs the following question: why wait to teach such a course in two separate tracks at the high school (If geometry and algebra are the predominant requirements) when it could be taught at the middle school?
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Haditup2here
8 Years of Insanity and now you're mad?
10:00 AM on 12/10/2009
Part II:
Continuing with the example of the teaching of physics . . . .

A number of school(s) are now teaching Algebra and Geometry at the middle school level. However, those skills are not applied in any other subjects until Physics (not even Biology or college chemistry where the most that math is used is in balancing chemical equations). Therefore, it should be taught at the Middle School level. If a student wants to go into the engineering profession or into the field of Physics, they will take the AP Course or a secondary advanced course. If a student has no interest in pursuing physics, it makes no sense in drawing it out and teaching it at a later stage of development when the vested interest is not there. . . And to add insult to energy, states like NC have state exams on many of these subjects in order for students to show competence. However, if one group of students a learning at a faster pace and in more detail in other track, surely they will be in the higher percentile. So what is the point?
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10:55 PM on 12/09/2009
Amen! I totally concur!
09:34 PM on 12/09/2009
Thanks for posting the link. I started to watch it when I was still at work, then thought I "shouldn't." Now can't get it to load. Will finish it out tomorrow at work.
09:37 PM on 12/09/2009
Somehow, I managed to post this in the wrong place. If it doesn't seem to make sense here, it is because it doesn't...
08:04 PM on 12/09/2009
Why do so many people think that college and skill-based jobs are a contradiction? You should be educated because it makes you a more aware, thoughtful person. What career you choose after that is your own business. I understand that our system is not set up to encourage that, but the answer is not less education. The answer is to make education easier to get. Many nations pay for college for anybody who wants to go. Like health care, it's a cost that soon pays for itself.
08:20 PM on 12/09/2009
I could not agree more.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
zombie fairy
06:58 PM on 12/09/2009
It's a mistake to send everyone to college - this is a middle class mindset that is bad for the country. Seriously, we need people to work retail, fix cars, do the plumbing, cut hair. The goal should be this: anyone who has the desire to go to college and the intellectual ability, should be able to go. The fact is that a lot of kids don't want to go. As a country, we may need more people who know how to do more things, but a traditional college isn't the answer.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Konnie
GOP = GOLDEN CALF OLD PARTY
06:27 PM on 12/09/2009
i hate to break it to ya bud, but a b.a. today is the same as a high school diploma was 40 years ago.
add to that the number of unemployed mba and phd's - you couldn't get a housecleaning job without
a high school diploma. forget about "moving the cheese" - a couple steps have been permanently removed from the "ladder".
06:18 PM on 12/09/2009
as a phd on medicaid i can say: education is not necessarily a route to a high-paying job. it would be good (for me) if we expanded opportunity to education for all but i think we also have to recognize 'education for education's sake' and not simply understand education in practical, utilitarian terms.

because we live in a capitalist society based on the ideology of scarcity we assume that a person is useless (and thus worthless) if he doesn't 'produce' something that is of obvious material benefit. we need to really rethink that assumption -- and i was hoping obama would articulate a different conception of man, the economy, 'education for education's sake' that made the case. unfortunately, however kumbaya-multicultural it is to expand opportunity to underprivileged groups (something i am staunchly in favor of -- and not just out of self-interest) we will never find a place for the 'educated' in society (read: employment) until we begin to expand and rethink what counts as a useful and worthy benefit to society.

as for kids who simply aren't 'smart enough' to take college classes -- there is no reason that working in the service industry should not be in their future. what we should do is make that work more valued -- and pay it appropriately (a good, decent minimum wage with benefits).
04:03 PM on 12/09/2009
I think many people miss the point of hiring graduates. It's not so much that you need employees who have studied your field. What you need is people who are familiar with a learning environment, and have proven that they are capable of achieving their goals. The new studies say that today's graduates will have DOZENS of jobs before they retire. What they have learned is not as important as their ability to learn. Some people have that naturally. For the rest of us, there is college.
08:28 PM on 12/09/2009
While I was fighting my own education, I usually told myself [and others] that whatever stage it was, it was just dues to pay. Something I had to get through to do what I wanted to do.

With even a little perspective after getting through the formal parts, I had to admit to myself [and others] that it really did matter, I really did learn what I was supposed to learn. And learned how to think more clearly. At one point, I wrote a letter to a pair of former bosses of mine, telling them I wish I had "knew then what I know now," and thanking him for giving me a chance in spite of my relative ignorance.
09:54 PM on 12/09/2009
Last sentence should have read "... known then ..." not "... knew then... "

Should have used that mental preview button.
02:07 PM on 12/09/2009
If you don't go to college, then get used to low paying jobs with no benefits. Wow, what an alternative.
02:27 PM on 12/09/2009
Sorry, but that is not true.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
zombie fairy
06:47 PM on 12/09/2009
The reality is even if you do go to college you can look forward to a low paying job with no benefits. What you're saying hasn't been true since the 1970s.
01:54 PM on 12/09/2009
What people don't seem to understand is that not everybody is meant to go to college.

Why would we assume so?

(the reason is that most people snobbishly think that people's value can be determined by what they do, which is closely related to how much education you obtain).

There is nothing wrong with being a plumber, or a farmer, or bus driver. (telemarketers on the other hand...)

We need to get back to a philosophy that says that honest work matters. Not how much money you make. Or whether it is appropriate to wear a suit to work.

We are screwing people over royally by giving them the expectation that they should go to college. Most college time is wasted. And because the government subsidizes it, it is hugely overpriced.

Spend that money instead on trade schools.
04:03 PM on 12/10/2009
I agree with you that college isn't for everyone, that many kids are pushed into college to their detriment, and that trade schools need far far more funding and advertising than they receive.

But why is it that honest work means physical labor? Why isn't being a nurse or a teacher or a chemist honest work? I'm an anthropologist who works for a non profit cancer research center & hospital, and I do a huge amount of non profit and volunteer work both at home and abroad. Is there something dishonest about this because I have a degree?

It frightens me when I hear people talk the way you do, it reminds me of the anti Semetic/ anti intellectual mentality that existed in much of Europe before WWII...oh, look at those shifty eyed, bookish intellectuals, they only care about money, they can't possibly have those jobs just because they actually enjoy being intellectually stimulated and challenged, or want to use their intellect to better humanity through science or other means. They're nothing like us honest hard working farmers and laborers.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
swlewis57
Working class, and proud of it.
12:53 PM on 12/09/2009
I feel that the trade schools are being overlooked in these discussions. The trade schools provide much needed training to many people who do not finish high school or that are not interested in the classes that higher education may provide.
06:21 PM on 12/09/2009
yes, the caveat to that is that trade school -- or even simple service sector jobs (that are, indeed, arduous to perform) -- should be paid. why can't the transition from a manufacturing sector (thanks nafta!) to a service sector not be easier? couldn't we mandate better wages and benefits for those in service sector work? then we could all spend our days in cafes, restaurants, shops, museums, and schools and in our spare time purchase trinkets made in china and india. the chinese and the indians will eventually escape their misery when the robots take over.