The Top 5 Digs Against Hillary Clinton In Tuesday's Democratic Debate

Has a presidential primary debate ever been so highly anticipated? I doubt it. Faced with the opportunities of six boys getting up on stage and piling on Senator Hillary Clinton, we in the press have been bubbling over with glee. With the former First Lady standing between her top two campaign trail rivals, Senator Barack Obama and ex-Senator John Edwards, pundits and reporters have been slating the debate as a real opportunity for memorable quotes and furious exchanges. Finally, the dead tree, television, and online media outlets agreed, we'd be off the sparring mats and into the ring, wearing mouth guards or not.

But this pile on was pretty light. Sure, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, and Richardson were there, but dissing Mrs. Clinton couldn't really be their bag - while you may want to be in the pole position, getting out of the pit stop is where you need to turn your attention first. Senator Biden said it himself, "I'm not running against Hillary Clinton," before getting in the best dig of the night against Rudy Giuliani's overuse of 9/11 as his personal legacy.

And given how much the debate turned into successive exchanges between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama, you might almost think the debate was really an extended episode of the Three Stooges.

And like the Three Stooges...well, it was always the senior Moe who came in for the least abuse in those movies. Senator Clinton did an able job of showing how stiff her spine can be when posed with opposition coming from all sides, whether it's Larry and Curly or Edwards and Obama. While a few sprays of seltzer may have connected, it's not clear that she took any pies in the face.

Just look at Senator Obama getting locked up with Clinton on what to do about Social Security. Sure, he called her out for not being "truthful" about what needs to be done on the issue. But it didn't have the full force that an exchange in one of these debates needs - it just sounded like a rational debate over an important policy issue, and that's something that New York's Senator is eager to take on.

But that seltzer can soak you, and the Senator's stage partners sure gave it a good try. Here's five swipes at Clinton that made something of a splash.

1. It was all about Iran, and it will continue to be.

If political reporting needs good guys and bad guys, 2008's mustachioed menace will be Iran. Rep. Dennis Kucinich stood up and said, "hey, mainstream media, don't frame Iran this way." And like a democracy protester at Tiananmen Square, the the NBC News juggernaut charged right over him.

Edwards brought up Iran first, and when Clinton tried to rebut his wave of argumentation, she ran right away from it and towards all the sweet things she's been doing for America's children all these years.

But Tim Russert brought her back around. And after explaining her stance, Edwards zeroed in like a bunker buster on the Senator's vote in favor of declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps a terrorist organization.

"[She] says she wants to maximize pressure on the Bush administration, so the way to do that is to vote yes on a resolution that looks like it was written literally by the neo-cons?" Edwards declared. "She literally gave Bush and Cheney exactly what they wanted."

2. Obama makes rain over Senator Clinton and government secrecy.

Russert tried tripping up Senator Clinton over the cloistering of various documents from her husband's White House until 2012. While the senator said she believed everything was normal in the National Archives, Senator Obama focused the discussion back on the specter of Vice President Dick Cheney and the giant safe full of secrets in his office.

Perhaps it won't be the biggest vote getter, but it was well put, and showed one senator seizing on an opportunity effectively.

"This is an example of not turning the page," the freshman Illinois Senator said, before bringing up the work he's done on ethics reform in the Senate. "We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in history. Part of what we have to do is to invite the American people back to participate in their government again. That means being open and accountable and transparent to the American people."

3. You're not electable, says Barack Obama.

The Senator followed up his dig at Clinton's supposed secrecy by saying that the Republicans were ready to run against her. He said it out loud and directly, showing us how the audacity of hope could get turned into sheer audacity.

"That's a fight they're very comfortable having, it is a fight we have been having since the 90s," Obama declared before saying that there was a need to "break the gridlock."

He added, "What we don't need is another eight years of bickering."

4. Edwards tip toes toward tagging Clinton as a Wal-Mart shopper.

Someone in Edwards' camp slapped themselves in the forehead when this came up. Senator Clinton served as a Wal-Mart board member during her Arkansas years, and has called the big box retailer one of America's mixed blessings.

Edwards tied in Wal-Mart to threatening our national security. He said that plans to prevent terrorist attacks by scanning more cargo coming into the nation's ports had been defeated. And the culprit?

"Who lobbied against it? Wal-Mart," the North Carolina Democrat asked and answered.

He only left out one thing - Clinton's connections to the company. But you could read the subtext if you were listening closely enough, and Edwards might be hoping that Iowa Caucus-goers living off of hollowed out mainstreams knew what he meant.

5. Obama and Edwards agree that Hillary Clinton is a pod person.

No, just kidding. But seriously, the turn from illegal aliens to space aliens with Dennis Kucinich admitting he *did* see a UFO at Shirley McClain's house was a lot of fun, and Obama's declaration that he'd go out for Halloween with his kids dressed as Mitt Romney was a good bit of humor, too.

While the Republican candidates frequently sound like eight or nine barbarians trying to tell the village which of them is the most like Genghis Khan, it was great to see at the end of the debate that the Democratic candidates could hack away at each other and still come out of it having a good time.

Comments

[8MoonRiver]

With every passing debate, it becomes clearer that Hillary Clinton is the corporate candidate, and John Edwards is the people's candidate. John Edwards was the clear winner of this debate, and he deserves the support of every voter who believes that corporate lobbyists should not be in control of our government.

[Rand]

I've been supportive of Edwards for some time. I DO have a problem, though, with his position on decriminalization of marijuana: "It would send the wrong message to children"

1) Not EVERYTHING is about children. I knew as a child, as did my children (And I presume that my grandchildren will, as well) that some things are permitted for adults but not children

2) Alcohol and tobacco, which are each arguably more dangerous both to the user and to society, are legal. Why not marijuana?

3) If Mrs. Edwards develops "wasting syndrome" (All too common among cancer patients), does anyone seriously think that a loving husband will say "Honey, I'd LIKE for you to have something to ease your suffering and increase your appetite, but it would send a bad message to America's children"? I certainly HOPE he wouldn't do such a thing!

[Mr.Smartey]

Agree he won. And yet I can't stand Edwards. I'm for the Vulcan.

[WBum]

From the article: But seriously, the turn from illegal aliens to space aliens with Dennis Kucinich admitting he *did* see a UFO at Shirley McClain's house was a lot of fun.

Kucinich "...it was unidentified flying object, okay. It's like -- it's unidentified. I saw something"



Just putting the partial quote in context. He couldn't identify the object. Don't make it seem like something it wasn't.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

you're absolutely right here. Kucinich never said he saw an "alien spacecraft". Does anyone, including the media pundits, ever actaully listen to what a person really says?

If I go outside tonight and see something flying across the sky that I can't identify, then I have seen a UFO. It doesn't mean that I think I saw aliens coming to our planet....

[Mr.Smartey]

QUOTE:

"Does anyone, including the media pundits, ever actaully listen to what a person really says?"

I guess not. Hundreds of sources, including Richard Armitage himself, said Richard leaked Valerie Plame's name, yet zillions of loons still think Cheney & Libby did it.

BTW, Plame is a hot babe.

[JimR]

What Dennis Kucinich says:

"...it was unidentified flying object, okay. It's like -- it's unidentified. I saw something"

What MSM hears:

"blah blah blah UFO blah blah aliens blah blah..."

[jmpurser]

Anybody ever come up with "you wouldn't be a good president"?

Anybody think that mattered?

[Countess]

Hillary Clinton again is getting rave reviews from her neocon allies and it is perfectly fitting as she is their choice. She has the perfect coalition of entrenched special interest groups of the democratic establishment and her new neocon fans on the right who admire her hawkish stance.

[Rebelfriend]

Eventhough Obama bills himself as the candidate of change, it becomes clearer every day, and with every debate, that John Edwards is the real candidate of change. There is also no mistaking the fact that John Edwards has the courage to challenge Clinton on the waffling of her positions, and that he has the grit and the toughness we need in our next President. I'm tired of hearing the media tell us what Obama needs to say and do when Edwards has been saying and doing exactly what they advise for many months. And I'm tired of the media shoving Clinton and Obama down our throats, when the candidate who is the real deal is ignored. John Edwards should be our next President. Period.

[VSamuels]

Oh, you mean the guy who hold no elective office and was part of the team that lost to Bush/Cheney?

[Snakeback]

HRC knows who her masters are. They the military industrial complex, AIPAC, and megacorporations.

She's electable because she knows that, and because she has the political machinery and experience.

Unfortunately, she's not going to help us much in the Middle East, and she is only going to be of limited help restoring the constitutional checks on executive power (because she wants that executive power for herself).

She will be of no help at all in declassifying documents that will reveal the true extent of the corrpution of the Bush White House, and thus will deprive America of greatly needed learnings about our country.

This is because of her GREED. She is VERY GREEDY, make no mistake about it.

Edwards was right about her, and would probably make a better President.

But whoever is going to be a Democratic president has to have a political war machine that can take on the GOP smear machine. It's going to be tough for a President who is under daily attack from all of Rupert Murdoch's and Ted Turner's broadcast outlets, and a majority of Clear Channel's stations as well.

Edwards doesn't stand a chance. He's got good ideas, but he would get Swift Boated in about two weeks and have three years and 11 months a as a lame duck.

Hillary and her consultant Bill are the ones who can counter the GOP machine.

Voters who do not want a GOP President have to think about their options.

America isn't going to elect a vegan who hangs out at Shirley MacClaine's house to see UFOs. Even of what he says is right.

The only possibility for Edwards would be if all of a sudden Gore started endorsing him and helping him out. Otherwise, he simply doesn't have the organization inside the beltway to fight the GOP.

The neocons may not get their hand-picked President this time, but do not underestimate them. It is precisely when they are out of power and are the underdogs that they do the best job of organizing their base and working their think tanks.

[timm0]

I can't quite figure where you stand, but one thing is for sure - the person with the most power in this nation to energize and help organize the neo-con/repug base is HRC. No other candidate in either party gets the right-wing hearts pounding like she does. So yeah, don't underestimate their machine. And don't underestimate the impregnability of their concrete heads to any "counter"ing that HRC attempts in combating the neo-con, MSM attack machine.

[ThomasDoubting]

Corporate America says that only the Corporate sponsored candidates can win. No surprise there! The Corporate Media tells us that Dennis Kucinich cannot win, they also say that Dennis is only drawing two or three percent in the polls. If that is the case then why would Tim Russert of NBC News, bring up the UFO question ? It was clear to me that his intention was to embarrass Mr Kucinich. I thought that the congressman handled it very well. Russert admitted that fourteen percent of Americans have seen UFOs. Fourteen percent of Americans equals about forty two million people. I would like to know how many have reported seeing them, and how many others have seen UFOs and felt no responsibility to do so, or decided that reporting them would bring ridicule. Are these forty two million people all nut cases ? Are they organized ? Why do these people all see the same things ? Should we continue to laugh at people who have seen UFOs, until fifty one percent have seen them, or should we continue until it reaches one hundred percent ?

[Thorn]

Aren't you ignoring the fact that she only answers the questions she likes? I'm not being flip.

[JimR]

Hillary Unit has processed your question and is ready to respond:

"HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!"

[MagisterLudi]

Finally a sane person- Senator Biden, "I'm not running against Hillary Clinton."
Alas, if only more bloggers would follow his lead and stop trashing the Democratic party's likely nominee.

[timm0]

That's right! Only Republicans and Independents are allowed to say anything that can be perceived as negative about HRC... Any Dem who dares to utter any disparaging remarks about her lies, double-speak, calculated tripe, and filthy bed-fellows will be sent immediately to Guantanamo.

Real debate cannot be tolerated if it means that HRC's divine right of ascendancy is besmirched in any way! What is wrong with these people!?!

[JimR]

PARDON US if we treat random polls of 1,000 people with a grain of salt, and would like to give primary voters a chance to weigh in first.

[maggipost]

It wasn't just Obama and Edwards going negative on Hillary -- every time the candidates tried to swing away from attack mode, Russert came up with something else. He looked like nothing more than a paid shill trying to pin Sen Clinton to the wall.

[smartstuart]

They all ganged up on HRC....but it was like the WWE....in the End of the battle royal...Sh­e remained the "ANDRE THE GIANT of the group, as she tossed loser after loser over the top political rope! Afew good shots at GHOULIANI thrown in for good measure by the gang helped her a lot,too!!!

[thinkbig]

Are you kidding? UFO's? That was the most absurd thing in the world to ask. Kucinich should have scolded the moderators for being such idiots. At least Biden after the debate had the guts to tell Chris Mathews that it's hit a new low.

That question took a fairly substantive debate and made them look like monkeys. Shame to NBC.

[Doofus]

My other man Dennis nicely deflected Russert's
UFO-related jab, with some gentle wit. He and
Ron Paul are going to do such a fine job as co-
presidents, once we come to our senses and
get them elected.

Kucinich/Paul - Tag Team 2008 - All We Are Saying Is Give 2 Guys a Chance!

[Wilson33]

Why don't you liberals boycott NBC like FOX since you don't like the questions being asked?

Soon you libs won't have an outlet to voice your concerns!

BOYCOTT NBC you whiners!

[Oldchef]

Do you ever have anything substantive to say?

[thinkbig]

Only the Fox news mouthbreathers would think that UFO's are a legitimate line of questioning. Maybe in the next Fox debate they'll ask one of the true believers if he really thinks that all of the worlds animal species were crammed aboard a huge boat for 40 days/nights with only a few people to take care of them. Personally I give UFO's more credence.

[JacktheBlogger]

Despite all the Hillary bashing, I'd say she would have come out the winner - except for that closing slip up on Gov. Spitzer. Her loyalty trumped her politics on that one. So I'd give it to Joe Biden as #1 and John Edwards as dead last - he sounded petty, mean and holier-than-thou as Gov Richardson rightly pointed out.

[thinkbig]

Joe Biden should win every debate on the merits of what's been said. However Hillary did very well and got by far the most time, so in the realm of opinion I would say she won. I think Edwards did very well too, he was aggressive but there is clearly a difference in his contributor base and hers. He takes some money sure, but she's really Republican Lite when it comes to corruption. In that sense he is holier than thou, thou being Hillary. Biden/Anyone '08!

P.S. Is it me or does everything that come out of Bidens mouth seem 100% right and sopisticated? The dude rocks!